[PrinceLightfoot]

Well said, SUBuddha, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Anyone calling for Shaw to be fired is a complete fool (and he is easily worth 10x Kiffin's salary). He is a perfect HC for the football team and our alma mater. I also cannot stand the commentary regarding riding Harbaugh's coattails - he was the OC during that time! However, let us not confuse valid criticism although harsh with the idiotic commentary of a vocal minority. 

I am one who has commented on a "lack of fire in the belly", and I trust you when you say you know he has it. Demonstrating that desire does not mean raging and shouting on the sidelines till foam forms at the corners of his mouth. An organization does take on the temperament of their leaders, so when I see an offense that lacked a sense of determination for the majority of 2014 and then had a plodding opener in 2015, my first thought is "do they really want this?" When I see a punt for a net 14 yard gain, I question "Do they really want to win?" Why the lack of risk? When someone really wants something, you can see it in their posture and in their eyes; it projects as part of their being. Who is responsible for reinforcing that this is not a walkover game? Who is responsible for letting the team know what happened last year is done and we have to go out every week and prove we are better than the opponent? Of course, players have a significant responsibility in that arena but having listened to several interviews provided by Nick Saban tells me his biggest struggle is maintaining desire and avoiding complacency. Beyond that when any organization performs poorly, the first to receive criticism are the leaders. That is not unique to Stanford Football.

My issue is the trend of the last 15 games. The record is 8-7 and that result lies almost exclusively at the feet of the offense both the wins and the losses. Who is in charge of the offense? Is it Bloomgren? Is it Shaw? The players? I have heard a mix bag of answers and since I do not know, the issue for me ends up where the buck can no longer be passed; at the top. The saying in Texas high school football is "Players win games, Coaches lose them". So if one was unfortunate and lost a game, one could expect to be doing extra drills in practice if the problem was execution or more rigorous aggression drills if they appeared soft or more sprints if they appeared slow or more endurance training if they appeared gassed. More was done in preparation to shore up the deficiency in whatever area that may be. This idea plays in well with the lack of execution response we hear when David is asked what is wrong with the offense. While that response is without a doubt true, is it really a stretch to entertain the idea that we have become predictable or that the offense is too mentally complex or perhaps we are simply trying to fit a square peg through a round hole? Watch the Orange bowl when David was OC then watch our game versus Utah last year. Different skill players and different skill sets but according to unscientific recruiting rankings, we have better athletes today. Why the lack in scoring?

I have heard Shaw say this is a game for upperclassmen yet our very experienced offense produced no touchdowns versus Northwestern. I read a valid point on twitter - when a senior laden team is unable to operate an offense effectively to score, it is due to either bad coaching or bad play design (and I would add bad execution which is result of coaching). There are true freshman on other teams who are contributing significantly to the offensive production of their teams, but for some reason we held McCaffrey back until Montgomery was injured. What is it about our playbook that requires a two or three year apprenticeship before one can reliably operate every facet of it? I can understand if the player needs a year of strength and conditioning before they are ready, but it was obvious that McCaffrey was ready. If our receivers are not gaining separation, is there something in the route designs that can assist in creating confusion and separation from DBs? Can we afford the lack of risk and run the ball up the gut on 3rd and 13 given the youth on defense?

I have hope that the opening game was an aberration and that they will find their rhythm in this week's game looking much more like the team that finished last season.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Well said, SUBuddha, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Anyone calling for Shaw to be fired is a complete fool (and he is easily worth 10x Kiffin's salary). He is a perfect HC for the football team and our alma mater. I also cannot stand the commentary regarding riding Harbaugh's coattails - he was the OC during that time! However, let us not confuse valid criticism although harsh with the idiotic commentary of a vocal minority. 

I am one who has commented on a "lack of fire in the belly", and I trust you when you say you know he has it. Demonstrating that desire does not mean raging and shouting on the sidelines till foam forms at the corners of his mouth. An organization does take on the temperament of their leaders, so when I see an offense that lacked a sense of determination for the majority of 2014 and then had a plodding opener in 2015, my first thought is "do they really want this?" When I see a punt for a net 14 yard gain, I question "Do they really want to win?" Why the lack of risk? When someone really wants something, you can see it in their posture and in their eyes; it projects as part of their being. Who is responsible for reinforcing that this is not a walkover game? Who is responsible for letting the team know what happened last year is done and we have to go out every week and prove we are better than the opponent? Of course, players have a significant responsibility in that arena but having listened to several interviews provided by Nick Saban tells me his biggest struggle is maintaining desire and avoiding complacency. Beyond that when any organization performs poorly, the first to receive criticism are the leaders. That is not unique to Stanford Football.

My issue is the trend of the last 15 games. The record is 8-7 and that result lies almost exclusively at the feet of the offense both the wins and the losses. Who is in charge of the offense? Is it Bloomgren? Is it Shaw? The players? I have heard a mix bag of answers and since I do not know, the issue for me ends up where the buck can no longer be passed; at the top. The saying in Texas high school football is "Players win games, Coaches lose them". So if one was unfortunate and lost a game, one could expect to be doing extra drills in practice if the problem was execution or more rigorous aggression drills if they appeared soft or more sprints if they appeared slow or more endurance training if they appeared gassed. More was done in preparation to shore up the deficiency in whatever area that may be. This idea plays in well with the lack of execution response we hear when David is asked what is wrong with the offense. While that response is without a doubt true, is it really a stretch to entertain the idea that we have become predictable or that the offense is too mentally complex or perhaps we are simply trying to fit a square peg through a round hole? Watch the Orange bowl when David was OC then watch our game versus Utah last year. Different skill players and different skill sets but according to unscientific recruiting rankings, we have better athletes today. Why the lack in scoring?

I have heard Shaw say this is a game for upperclassmen yet our very experienced offense produced no touchdowns versus Northwestern. I read a valid point on twitter - when a senior laden team is unable to operate an offense effectively to score, it is due to either bad coaching or bad play design (and I would add bad execution which is result of coaching). There are true freshman on other teams who are contributing significantly to the offensive production of their teams, but for some reason we held McCaffrey back until Montgomery was injured. What is it about our playbook that requires a two or three year apprenticeship before one can reliably operate every facet of it? I can understand if the player needs a year of strength and conditioning before they are ready, but it was obvious that McCaffrey was ready. If our receivers are not gaining separation, is there something in the route designs that can assist in creating confusion and separation from DBs? Can we afford the lack of risk and run the ball up the gut on 3rd and 13 given the youth on defense?

I have hope that the opening game was an aberration and that they will find their rhythm in this week's game looking much more like the team that finished last season.

[jacketree]

No game that includes an ACC team is a Rose Bowl.

Ahem. 



Of course at the time, Tech was a member of the Southern Conference, so perhaps you have a point.  Although, a number of teams from the ACC and other conferences not named the Pac8/10/12 or Big Ten have more Rose Bowl appearances than Arizona does (0).

Alabama (6)
Pittsburgh (4)
Texas (2)
Duke (2)
Tennessee (2)

And with single appearances, including some Stanford opponents, we have: Columbia, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Harvard, Miami (FL), No.t.re Dame, Oklahoma, TCU, Navy, Brown, Florida State, SMU, Tulane, Washington & Jefferson (assuming both squads made the trip), and Penn.


P.S.  We'll see where this all heads for Stanford over the next few seasons.  Maybe a slight parallel to Paul Johnson at GT, just in that there is a normal ebb and flow to any particular team's (and therefore the head coach's) fortunes. Johnson started really strong his first two years, with an ACC title, a win against UGA, and Orange Bowl birth (although he wasn't even allegedly riding anyone's coattails), and kind of dropped off into the mediocre abyss for several years (with no wins against UGA) until he found a great QB (hmmmm.....) beat UGA while ripping their hearts out, came within one onside kick of another ACC title, and did win the Orange Bowl last year.  They look to be strong again.

P.P.S.  People can be butt hurt about some of the criticism, which may potentially be harsh and/or idiotic in the eyes of certain posters.  But if people don't think there is cause for alarm and that maybe Shaw isn't a perfect HC, those people really aren't paying attention and/or whistling past the old crematorium.

P.P.P.S.  I'd like to ride on PrinceLightfoot's posting coattails.....

P.P.P.P.S.  Though I'm pretty sure Harbaugh dumped Shaw as OC long before the Orange Bowl. Not sure exactly when Roman was elevated.

[jacketree]

No game that includes an ACC team is a Rose Bowl.

Ahem. 



Of course at the time, Tech was a member of the Southern Conference, so perhaps you have a point.  Although, a number of teams from the ACC and other conferences not named the Pac8/10/12 or Big Ten have more Rose Bowl appearances than Arizona does (0).

Alabama (6)
Pittsburgh (4)
Texas (2)
Duke (2)
Tennessee (2)

And with single appearances, including some Stanford opponents, we have: Columbia, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Harvard, Miami (FL), No.t.re Dame, Oklahoma, TCU, Navy, Brown, Florida State, SMU, Tulane, Washington & Jefferson (assuming both squads made the trip), and Penn.


P.S.  We'll see where this all heads for Stanford over the next few seasons.  Maybe a slight parallel to Paul Johnson at GT, just in that there is a normal ebb and flow to any particular team's (and therefore the head coach's) fortunes. Johnson started really strong his first two years, with an ACC title, a win against UGA, and Orange Bowl birth (although he wasn't even allegedly riding anyone's coattails), and kind of dropped off into the mediocre abyss for several years (with no wins against UGA) until he found a great QB (hmmmm.....) beat UGA while ripping their hearts out, came within one onside kick of another ACC title, and did win the Orange Bowl last year.  They look to be strong again.

P.P.S.  People can be butt hurt about some of the criticism, which may potentially be harsh and/or idiotic in the eyes of certain posters.  But if people don't think there is cause for alarm and that maybe Shaw isn't a perfect HC, those people really aren't paying attention and/or whistling past the old crematorium.

P.P.P.S.  I'd like to ride on PrinceLightfoot's posting coattails.....

P.P.P.P.S.  Though I'm pretty sure Harbaugh dumped Shaw as OC long before the Orange Bowl. Not sure exactly when Roman was elevated.

[CornFed]

Like garvin said.

Just cuz the ticket has Rose Bowl printed on it, doesn't mean it's a real rose bowl.

[CornFed]

Like garvin said.

Just cuz the ticket has Rose Bowl printed on it, doesn't mean it's a real rose bowl.

[jacketree]

Oh it was real. And spectacular.

[jacketree]

Oh it was real. And spectacular.

[82lsju]

P.P.P.P.S.  Though I'm pretty sure Harbaugh dumped Shaw as OC long before the Orange Bowl. Not sure exactly when Roman was elevated.

2009 Stanford Tight Ends/Offensive Tackles/Running Game Coordinator
2010 Stanford Associate Head Coach/Assistant Head Coach Offense/Tight Ends/Offensive Tackles

http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.db...=208440634

[82lsju]

P.P.P.P.S.  Though I'm pretty sure Harbaugh dumped Shaw as OC long before the Orange Bowl. Not sure exactly when Roman was elevated.

2009 Stanford Tight Ends/Offensive Tackles/Running Game Coordinator
2010 Stanford Associate Head Coach/Assistant Head Coach Offense/Tight Ends/Offensive Tackles

http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.db...=208440634

[82lsju]

[
Ahem. 

Georgia Tech 8 Kal 7 says it all......

and this was the wrong way Riegels Rose Bowl.......

[82lsju]

[
Ahem. 

Georgia Tech 8 Kal 7 says it all......

and this was the wrong way Riegels Rose Bowl.......

[jacketree]

Anyone calling for Shaw to be fired is a complete fool (and he is easily worth 10x Kiffin's salary). He is a perfect HC for the football team and our alma mater.

Emphasis added, but there you go. 

Sounds like at least a hint to me.  Unless you want to get into a rhetoric fight and argue that "a perfect HC" is nowhere near "the perfect HC," but what I said in my post-postscript was "a perfect HC", and HC sure as hell means "head coach". What was your senior honors thesis on, skim reading?  (I didn't take honors anything at Tech - not sure anyone did as regular everything was hard enough.  The closest thing to a senior thesis I completed was the design of a small dam.)

Anyway, this is great news Garvin!  It appears Jacketrette will get that fajita station at her nuptials next year.  And I don't even have to use that "Hey everyone.....welcome to my new truck!!" toast I was planning on. Figuring $800 for the fajitas and let's go nuts and also give her the ice cream or donuts (or even the pies); that leaves $48,400 for a new vehicle. (My 2001 VW has 198,756 miles on it and finding an aftermarket catalytic converter that matches State requirements is getting harder and harder.)  I know there are car aficionados that post here, so I'll take suggestions for a good (yeah I ain't living to 104 but still) midlife crisis purchase.

PM me and I'll provide you a routing code for those 50,000 real Yankee dollars. Hell, I'll cut you some slack and take the Confederate scrip.  Must be worth something on the open market. 

[jacketree]

Anyone calling for Shaw to be fired is a complete fool (and he is easily worth 10x Kiffin's salary). He is a perfect HC for the football team and our alma mater.

Emphasis added, but there you go. 

Sounds like at least a hint to me.  Unless you want to get into a rhetoric fight and argue that "a perfect HC" is nowhere near "the perfect HC," but what I said in my post-postscript was "a perfect HC", and HC sure as hell means "head coach". What was your senior honors thesis on, skim reading?  (I didn't take honors anything at Tech - not sure anyone did as regular everything was hard enough.  The closest thing to a senior thesis I completed was the design of a small dam.)

Anyway, this is great news Garvin!  It appears Jacketrette will get that fajita station at her nuptials next year.  And I don't even have to use that "Hey everyone.....welcome to my new truck!!" toast I was planning on. Figuring $800 for the fajitas and let's go nuts and also give her the ice cream or donuts (or even the pies); that leaves $48,400 for a new vehicle. (My 2001 VW has 198,756 miles on it and finding an aftermarket catalytic converter that matches State requirements is getting harder and harder.)  I know there are car aficionados that post here, so I'll take suggestions for a good (yeah I ain't living to 104 but still) midlife crisis purchase.

PM me and I'll provide you a routing code for those 50,000 real Yankee dollars. Hell, I'll cut you some slack and take the Confederate scrip.  Must be worth something on the open market. 

[82lsju]

I know there are car aficionados that post here, so I'll take suggestions for a good (yeah I ain't living to 104 but still) midlife crisis purchase.

a couple of suggestions (in increasing order of how big the crisis is and I'm assuming you want a "modern" car, if you'll consider "vintage" I can give you another list).  Any of these should of course be purchased in any color that is not black, white, silver, or grey, red is generally the preferred color:

- Fiat Abarth, lots of fun for a front driver.  Really a two seater with space behind the seats for "stuff".

- 2016 Mazda Miata, if you are a drop top kind of person (I am not unless it is after sunset) this is a lot of fun for the money.  There will supposedly eventually be be a Fiat based on the Miata which might have a "more fun engine"

- 2015 or later Subaru WRX (I own one).  Fun to drive once you fix the annoying rev hang and linear throttle response issues (easy to do).  Also pretty practical for everyday living

- Mini Cooper John Cooper Works edition, might as well have the most fun Mini

- VW Golf R, since you have a VW now this would be the best mid-life crisis VW to get if you are wed to VWs

- Ford Mustang (wide range of price points but I'd suggest GT), great value in a go fast boy racer car

- Chevy Corvette, probably the best value in go really fast boy racer cars

- Porsche Boxster or Cayman, more sophisticated Corvette and potentially cheaper (or more expensive) depending on how you spec the car, it is hard to beat a mid engine car (a Cayman is my other car)

if you are willing to go a little non-conventional (and why not for a mid-life crisis)

- Caterham Seven, not for everyone and you will need a second car to drive in the rain

- Ariel Atom, a street legal almost race car, you'll need a second car to drive in the rain

[82lsju]

I know there are car aficionados that post here, so I'll take suggestions for a good (yeah I ain't living to 104 but still) midlife crisis purchase.

a couple of suggestions (in increasing order of how big the crisis is and I'm assuming you want a "modern" car, if you'll consider "vintage" I can give you another list).  Any of these should of course be purchased in any color that is not black, white, silver, or grey, red is generally the preferred color:

- Fiat Abarth, lots of fun for a front driver.  Really a two seater with space behind the seats for "stuff".

- 2016 Mazda Miata, if you are a drop top kind of person (I am not unless it is after sunset) this is a lot of fun for the money.  There will supposedly eventually be be a Fiat based on the Miata which might have a "more fun engine"

- 2015 or later Subaru WRX (I own one).  Fun to drive once you fix the annoying rev hang and linear throttle response issues (easy to do).  Also pretty practical for everyday living

- Mini Cooper John Cooper Works edition, might as well have the most fun Mini

- VW Golf R, since you have a VW now this would be the best mid-life crisis VW to get if you are wed to VWs

- Ford Mustang (wide range of price points but I'd suggest GT), great value in a go fast boy racer car

- Chevy Corvette, probably the best value in go really fast boy racer cars

- Porsche Boxster or Cayman, more sophisticated Corvette and potentially cheaper (or more expensive) depending on how you spec the car, it is hard to beat a mid engine car (a Cayman is my other car)

if you are willing to go a little non-conventional (and why not for a mid-life crisis)

- Caterham Seven, not for everyone and you will need a second car to drive in the rain

- Ariel Atom, a street legal almost race car, you'll need a second car to drive in the rain

[jacketree]

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the list. While I wait for my $50,000 from Garvin (In my excitement I forgot about the taxes. This is a gift, right?) I can give my basic parameters:

1.  Must be a manual transmission. At least five speed.  I may consider paddle shift if No. 3 holds true.

2.  I am not wed to VW at all. My first VW was my dad's 1969 Karmann Ghia.  The poor man's Porsche. Great car. Met its demise when one Famer A. Grey from east bf Minnesota destroyed it on the road into downtown Denver.  My second VW was a 1985 Scirroco. Piece of crap.  I could write a nice travelogue concerning all the places that spawn of Satan broke down and abandoned me.  Must have gone through 8 fuel pumps.  My third and current VW is a hand me down from my sister-in-law, possibly in retribution for dumping the Scirroco (for free!) on her daughter.  Hardly a fair trade as the 2.0L Golf, according to my mechanic who favors Japanese iron, was apparently made on a Tuesday and inescapably has been extremely reliable. Knock on the old engine block.

3. Mrs. Jacketree has to be furious when I pull it into the driveway unannounced.

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

5. Not sure I'm a 'vette guy. May be a great reason to get one.

6. I could buy a Porsche mini van if they made such a thing and it would work for No. 3, so that really might work. My future son-in-law wants me to get a Porsche or Mini.  (Then ease up on the number coming to the wedding!)

7. I've been looking at Mini, Mazda and Subaru; although driving an Impreza doesn't exactly scream mid-life crisis. Nor does buying a Ford Fiesta, which is probably what will happen.

8. Any Hondas or Toyotas worth considering?

9. When I was a kid, all I wanted to drive was a Fiat Spyder. Maybe I should just go with that.  (Fix It Again Tony?)

10.  I love the Caterham Seven and Ariel Atom.  Street legal! Man, it would be worth it just to borrow one and pretend I had gone over the edge. Totally satisfies No. 3.  Of course part of my midlife crisis would then be finding an apartment and someone else to share it with.

[jacketree]

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the list. While I wait for my $50,000 from Garvin (In my excitement I forgot about the taxes. This is a gift, right?) I can give my basic parameters:

1.  Must be a manual transmission. At least five speed.  I may consider paddle shift if No. 3 holds true.

2.  I am not wed to VW at all. My first VW was my dad's 1969 Karmann Ghia.  The poor man's Porsche. Great car. Met its demise when one Famer A. Grey from east bf Minnesota destroyed it on the road into downtown Denver.  My second VW was a 1985 Scirroco. Piece of crap.  I could write a nice travelogue concerning all the places that spawn of Satan broke down and abandoned me.  Must have gone through 8 fuel pumps.  My third and current VW is a hand me down from my sister-in-law, possibly in retribution for dumping the Scirroco (for free!) on her daughter.  Hardly a fair trade as the 2.0L Golf, according to my mechanic who favors Japanese iron, was apparently made on a Tuesday and inescapably has been extremely reliable. Knock on the old engine block.

3. Mrs. Jacketree has to be furious when I pull it into the driveway unannounced.

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

5. Not sure I'm a 'vette guy. May be a great reason to get one.

6. I could buy a Porsche mini van if they made such a thing and it would work for No. 3, so that really might work. My future son-in-law wants me to get a Porsche or Mini.  (Then ease up on the number coming to the wedding!)

7. I've been looking at Mini, Mazda and Subaru; although driving an Impreza doesn't exactly scream mid-life crisis. Nor does buying a Ford Fiesta, which is probably what will happen.

8. Any Hondas or Toyotas worth considering?

9. When I was a kid, all I wanted to drive was a Fiat Spyder. Maybe I should just go with that.  (Fix It Again Tony?)

10.  I love the Caterham Seven and Ariel Atom.  Street legal! Man, it would be worth it just to borrow one and pretend I had gone over the edge. Totally satisfies No. 3.  Of course part of my midlife crisis would then be finding an apartment and someone else to share it with.

[82lsju]

Maybe one of the Scion/Subaru twins, the FR-S or BRZ, rear wheel drive, manual transmission, two seater with a back seat designed for small children or contortionists, get the BRZ in world rally blue pearl (same color as my WRX).  They come with really poor tires, swap them out for something better (like say the Michelin Pilot Super Sports).

If the Civic R ever comes here you could get one of those (don't hold your breath).

The WRX, while based on the Impreza chassis is not the same car, if you get down to the south bay let me know and you can drive mine

While not a minivan the Porsche Macan is fun to drive......and it is hoot to see it on an autocross course or on the track!!!

If/when they come out with a new MazdaSpeed3 or MazdaSpeed6 they would be fun drives.

The Fiat based Miata will reportedly be named the 124....the go fast boy racer version the Abarth........

One additional car to consider, the Ford Focus RS, coming soon to a dealer near you.....

[82lsju]

Maybe one of the Scion/Subaru twins, the FR-S or BRZ, rear wheel drive, manual transmission, two seater with a back seat designed for small children or contortionists, get the BRZ in world rally blue pearl (same color as my WRX).  They come with really poor tires, swap them out for something better (like say the Michelin Pilot Super Sports).

If the Civic R ever comes here you could get one of those (don't hold your breath).

The WRX, while based on the Impreza chassis is not the same car, if you get down to the south bay let me know and you can drive mine

While not a minivan the Porsche Macan is fun to drive......and it is hoot to see it on an autocross course or on the track!!!

If/when they come out with a new MazdaSpeed3 or MazdaSpeed6 they would be fun drives.

The Fiat based Miata will reportedly be named the 124....the go fast boy racer version the Abarth........

One additional car to consider, the Ford Focus RS, coming soon to a dealer near you.....

[yvonne]

Getting back to SUBuddha's original post, which I had hoped to reply to earlier, when a team loses or underperfoms, fans invariably blame the head coach and the starting quarterback. Many times, that blame is out of proportion, but that comes with the territory. It's actually kind of funny to read some of it, like the suggestion that Hogan be benched.

One thing I learned from the Nunes situation is that we as fans see very little of what's going on inside the team. Remember how we were all clamoring to see the highly-touted Nottingham? Well, he didn't turn out be much better, if at all, and none of us knew anything about this redshirt freshman from DC. This is not to say that the coaches are all knowing, just that we see only a small portion of what's going on.

First games are kind of funny. They can be aberrations, but they can also reveal trends that will play out during the season. One example that stands out in my mind is a game against Colorado in 1993, the second season of Walsh II. Colorado was not far removed from its national championship, and we beat them in a 41-37 shootout. Fans and media thought it was the sign of an excellent offense gunning down a national power, but it turned out that Colorado wasn't any good, and the high scoring game was, in fact the mark of a weak defense, which would become one of the hallmarks of that team. What I'm trying to say here is that first games can be indicators of the direction of season, but not necessarily the indicators that we think at the time.

I definitely agree with the poster who compared the divination of the press conference quotes to the post-debate analysis by the partisan groups. People read into them what they will.

David's a big boy, and he's been around football for a very long time. I'm sure he knows that the criticism is part of the job, and I hope he would, like my beloved track coach of blessed memory, just smile, shake his head, and say "Everyone knows more than me."

[yvonne]

Getting back to SUBuddha's original post, which I had hoped to reply to earlier, when a team loses or underperfoms, fans invariably blame the head coach and the starting quarterback. Many times, that blame is out of proportion, but that comes with the territory. It's actually kind of funny to read some of it, like the suggestion that Hogan be benched.

One thing I learned from the Nunes situation is that we as fans see very little of what's going on inside the team. Remember how we were all clamoring to see the highly-touted Nottingham? Well, he didn't turn out be much better, if at all, and none of us knew anything about this redshirt freshman from DC. This is not to say that the coaches are all knowing, just that we see only a small portion of what's going on.

First games are kind of funny. They can be aberrations, but they can also reveal trends that will play out during the season. One example that stands out in my mind is a game against Colorado in 1993, the second season of Walsh II. Colorado was not far removed from its national championship, and we beat them in a 41-37 shootout. Fans and media thought it was the sign of an excellent offense gunning down a national power, but it turned out that Colorado wasn't any good, and the high scoring game was, in fact the mark of a weak defense, which would become one of the hallmarks of that team. What I'm trying to say here is that first games can be indicators of the direction of season, but not necessarily the indicators that we think at the time.

I definitely agree with the poster who compared the divination of the press conference quotes to the post-debate analysis by the partisan groups. People read into them what they will.

David's a big boy, and he's been around football for a very long time. I'm sure he knows that the criticism is part of the job, and I hope he would, like my beloved track coach of blessed memory, just smile, shake his head, and say "Everyone knows more than me."

[winflop]

Buddha, I assume I am one of the people who has upset you.  I applaud your passion, and I’m sorry if I made you angry.  However, I have just as much passion, and I want Stanford football to succeed every bit as much as you do.  If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t say jack.

I’m not going to go on some long rant about Saturday.  Here’s the TLDR version:
- I will ALWAYS bias toward criticizing coaches over players when the team plays poorly (and not only when they lose).  Coaches are highly-paid professionals, players are young men.
- I use the term Shawgren because it is very unclear to me who is responsible for the offense.  There are four questions that we always knew the answer to when Harbaugh was HC, and I don’t know the answer to any of them today:
    o Who owns the offensive gameplan?
    o Who does the playcalling?
    o Who decides when the gameplan isn’t working?
    o Who is responsible for adjusting the gameplan if it’s determined to not be working?
I think this is a significant problem.  Harbaugh may have owned all of these, and although I’m not sure that’s right, it’s better than lacking clarity.
- I can’t speak for others, but I don’t recall calling for Shaw to be fired so I hope that comment wasn’t directed at me.  The greatest extent I recall going to was to state that if this isn’t fixed quickly, Bloomgren needs to go in the offseason.  I stand by that statement.

So why am I so frustrated?  Any optimism that the first 2/3 of last season was the blip was completely laid to waste on Saturday, and I am left searching for a sign – any sign – that things will be different this season.  I have yet to read or hear any statements from Shaw (post-game, Tuesday, or today) that gives me that confidence.  If you have please share – I’d love to be wrong.

I do question whether Shaw can’t or isn’t willing to look in the mirror with honesty.  I do wonder if what he said late last season was just a bunch of empty words because I’m not sure whether he really did learn a damn thing last season.  I don’t care if he doesn’t scream & yell, but I do care when his comments to date seem solely about execution and don’t show any responsibilityfor that debacle or any contrition.  Things he could say: “I didn’t have this team ready to play on Saturday.” “I should have recognized sooner that the gameplan wasn’t working as intended and made some changes.” “I should have gone for it on 4th & 5 from the NU 37.”  I want a head coach who’s willing to admit when he’s made a mistake, and when he's unwilling to in the face of what I consider pretty compelling evidence, it comes across to me as stubborn & arrogant.  I don't expect anything close to perfection, but I do expect honest self-evaluation.

I’d love to be wrong, and I’d love to go to bed this Saturday night not having these questions and concerns any more.  More than anything else, I want this team to show the world on Saturday that it can play well enough to beat anybody.  Doesn’t mean it will happen, but at least show that the potential of the team is up to the talent level of the individuals – both on the field and the sideline.

[winflop]

Buddha, I assume I am one of the people who has upset you.  I applaud your passion, and I’m sorry if I made you angry.  However, I have just as much passion, and I want Stanford football to succeed every bit as much as you do.  If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t say jack.

I’m not going to go on some long rant about Saturday.  Here’s the TLDR version:
- I will ALWAYS bias toward criticizing coaches over players when the team plays poorly (and not only when they lose).  Coaches are highly-paid professionals, players are young men.
- I use the term Shawgren because it is very unclear to me who is responsible for the offense.  There are four questions that we always knew the answer to when Harbaugh was HC, and I don’t know the answer to any of them today:
    o Who owns the offensive gameplan?
    o Who does the playcalling?
    o Who decides when the gameplan isn’t working?
    o Who is responsible for adjusting the gameplan if it’s determined to not be working?
I think this is a significant problem.  Harbaugh may have owned all of these, and although I’m not sure that’s right, it’s better than lacking clarity.
- I can’t speak for others, but I don’t recall calling for Shaw to be fired so I hope that comment wasn’t directed at me.  The greatest extent I recall going to was to state that if this isn’t fixed quickly, Bloomgren needs to go in the offseason.  I stand by that statement.

So why am I so frustrated?  Any optimism that the first 2/3 of last season was the blip was completely laid to waste on Saturday, and I am left searching for a sign – any sign – that things will be different this season.  I have yet to read or hear any statements from Shaw (post-game, Tuesday, or today) that gives me that confidence.  If you have please share – I’d love to be wrong.

I do question whether Shaw can’t or isn’t willing to look in the mirror with honesty.  I do wonder if what he said late last season was just a bunch of empty words because I’m not sure whether he really did learn a damn thing last season.  I don’t care if he doesn’t scream & yell, but I do care when his comments to date seem solely about execution and don’t show any responsibilityfor that debacle or any contrition.  Things he could say: “I didn’t have this team ready to play on Saturday.” “I should have recognized sooner that the gameplan wasn’t working as intended and made some changes.” “I should have gone for it on 4th & 5 from the NU 37.”  I want a head coach who’s willing to admit when he’s made a mistake, and when he's unwilling to in the face of what I consider pretty compelling evidence, it comes across to me as stubborn & arrogant.  I don't expect anything close to perfection, but I do expect honest self-evaluation.

I’d love to be wrong, and I’d love to go to bed this Saturday night not having these questions and concerns any more.  More than anything else, I want this team to show the world on Saturday that it can play well enough to beat anybody.  Doesn’t mean it will happen, but at least show that the potential of the team is up to the talent level of the individuals – both on the field and the sideline.

[BurgXXIII]

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

Actually, Audis are inexpensive Lamborghinis.

[BurgXXIII]

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

Actually, Audis are inexpensive Lamborghinis.

[pefloresjr]

Under Harbaugh the play calls were supposedly a group decision by Harbaugh, Roman and Shaw with each being the lead caller at different times.  It was not very clear for a long time.  Also, the input from too many caused very late play calls that resulted in far too many delay of game penalties.  That seems to have become less of a problem under Shaw.  That does not immunize Shaw from criticism for his play calling, but I don't think the play calling structure was better in the good ol' Harbaugh days. 

I blame Shaw for not having the team ready to play emotionally last week.  I also blame him for not having a game plan they could execute more successfully.  He is the head coach and it is his job to put the team in a place to win.  However, I am certain that he cares very deeply, is not complacent, and is very competitive with real fire in his belly.  No coach gets his players to perform every game.  This game was terrible on offense and I am at a bit of a loss how it went bad in so many respects.  Several experts spoke glowingly of the work the team was doing in camp and they seemed to be motivated by last year's disappointing results.  Sometimes a team plays a really bad game.  I am ready to focus on the next game and hope to replace our angst with better play on Saturday. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

Under Harbaugh the play calls were supposedly a group decision by Harbaugh, Roman and Shaw with each being the lead caller at different times.  It was not very clear for a long time.  Also, the input from too many caused very late play calls that resulted in far too many delay of game penalties.  That seems to have become less of a problem under Shaw.  That does not immunize Shaw from criticism for his play calling, but I don't think the play calling structure was better in the good ol' Harbaugh days. 

I blame Shaw for not having the team ready to play emotionally last week.  I also blame him for not having a game plan they could execute more successfully.  He is the head coach and it is his job to put the team in a place to win.  However, I am certain that he cares very deeply, is not complacent, and is very competitive with real fire in his belly.  No coach gets his players to perform every game.  This game was terrible on offense and I am at a bit of a loss how it went bad in so many respects.  Several experts spoke glowingly of the work the team was doing in camp and they seemed to be motivated by last year's disappointing results.  Sometimes a team plays a really bad game.  I am ready to focus on the next game and hope to replace our angst with better play on Saturday. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[82lsju]

[quote author=jacketree link=topic=12719.msg127696#msg127696 date=1441854948]

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

Actually, Audis are inexpensive Lamborghinis.
[/quote]

If Jacketree wants to spend Lamborghini money he should look at the Maserati Coupe or the McLearn 12C

[82lsju]

[quote author=jacketree link=topic=12719.msg127696#msg127696 date=1441854948]

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

Actually, Audis are inexpensive Lamborghinis.
[/quote]

If Jacketree wants to spend Lamborghini money he should look at the Maserati Coupe or the McLearn 12C

[dabigv13]

I'll take advantage of the thread drift....

I have a few different cars bouncing around in my head at the moment- I've been looking for a low mileage used Cayman in a nice color, but having some difficulty finding one nearby (thanks to 82LSJU for some great info though). Ditto for a low mileage S2000. And I'm starting to think with the amount I'd have to plop down, a warranty would be nice.

Likely test driving a Nissan 370z this weekend. Pretty impressive numbers, and I could get one new or CPO.

May look at a Golf R as well, though the 2016's with manual transmissions still seem to be in rather short supply. Not a brobdingnagian fan of the styling, but it's growing on me. Would love it if Audi offered the S3 with MT, but still seems to be no go for the time being.

The BRZ/FRS is really sharp looking and apparently a ton of fun, but I already anticipate how annoyed I would be with that underpowered engine. Kills me that Toybaru can't/won't slap a turbo on it.

The Fiat roadster could be great, the new Miata it will likely share parts with seems like the best iteration of the model. But hard to say when we'll see it. I'm guessing 2017 model year at the earliest.

Honda is supposedly looking at a new S2000, but again no firm info.

If Nissan made a factory new 300ZX TT I would probably go for that, but just another instance of being born in the wrong decade....

[dabigv13]

I'll take advantage of the thread drift....

I have a few different cars bouncing around in my head at the moment- I've been looking for a low mileage used Cayman in a nice color, but having some difficulty finding one nearby (thanks to 82LSJU for some great info though). Ditto for a low mileage S2000. And I'm starting to think with the amount I'd have to plop down, a warranty would be nice.

Likely test driving a Nissan 370z this weekend. Pretty impressive numbers, and I could get one new or CPO.

May look at a Golf R as well, though the 2016's with manual transmissions still seem to be in rather short supply. Not a brobdingnagian fan of the styling, but it's growing on me. Would love it if Audi offered the S3 with MT, but still seems to be no go for the time being.

The BRZ/FRS is really sharp looking and apparently a ton of fun, but I already anticipate how annoyed I would be with that underpowered engine. Kills me that Toybaru can't/won't slap a turbo on it.

The Fiat roadster could be great, the new Miata it will likely share parts with seems like the best iteration of the model. But hard to say when we'll see it. I'm guessing 2017 model year at the earliest.

Honda is supposedly looking at a new S2000, but again no firm info.

If Nissan made a factory new 300ZX TT I would probably go for that, but just another instance of being born in the wrong decade....

[SUBuddha]

[quote author=BurgXXIII link=topic=12719.msg127708#msg127708 date=1441860013]
[quote author=jacketree link=topic=12719.msg127696#msg127696 date=1441854948]

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

Actually, Audis are inexpensive Lamborghinis.
[/quote]
82-
My pops has gone with a spec built Cayman as his track car, this was simply because the S6 was too heavy at laguna. For those that want all wheel drive with a lambo engine do not dismiss the Audi's.
If Jacketree wants to spend Lamborghini money he should look a the Maserati Coupe or the McLearn 12C
[/quote]

[SUBuddha]

[quote author=BurgXXIII link=topic=12719.msg127708#msg127708 date=1441860013]
[quote author=jacketree link=topic=12719.msg127696#msg127696 date=1441854948]

4. No Audis. Just expensive Volkswagens.

Actually, Audis are inexpensive Lamborghinis.
[/quote]
82-
My pops has gone with a spec built Cayman as his track car, this was simply because the S6 was too heavy at laguna. For those that want all wheel drive with a lambo engine do not dismiss the Audi's.
If Jacketree wants to spend Lamborghini money he should look a the Maserati Coupe or the McLearn 12C
[/quote]

[BostonCard]

I'll take advantage of the thread drift....

I have a few different cars bouncing around in my head at the moment- I've been looking for a low mileage used Cayman in a nice color, but having some difficulty finding one nearby (thanks to 82LSJU for some great info though). Ditto for a low mileage S2000. And I'm starting to think with the amount I'd have to plop down, a warranty would be nice.

Don't know if this is still true with the advent of the internet, but it used to be that the best place to get a low mileage luxury/sport/SUV would be in Palm Springs (I assume other popular destinations for people with deep pockets would qualify), who would buy/lease a car just to keep in their vacation home, almost never drive it, and then move on to the next thing.

BC

[BostonCard]

I'll take advantage of the thread drift....

I have a few different cars bouncing around in my head at the moment- I've been looking for a low mileage used Cayman in a nice color, but having some difficulty finding one nearby (thanks to 82LSJU for some great info though). Ditto for a low mileage S2000. And I'm starting to think with the amount I'd have to plop down, a warranty would be nice.

Don't know if this is still true with the advent of the internet, but it used to be that the best place to get a low mileage luxury/sport/SUV would be in Palm Springs (I assume other popular destinations for people with deep pockets would qualify), who would buy/lease a car just to keep in their vacation home, almost never drive it, and then move on to the next thing.

BC

[Hank 91]

Preach, Buddha, preach!

[Hank 91]

Preach, Buddha, preach!

[Hulk01]

Totally disagree that Shaw is responsible for preparing the players emotionally.

If you can find a former college football player who disagrees with, please ask him to post here. 
And if he was someone who needed a coach to prepare him, ask how much playing time he ever got.

If you need an adult to prepare for emotionally for a college football game, you should go find another sport. 
Football isn't your passion, and you'll never be worth a damn at it.

[Hulk01]

Totally disagree that Shaw is responsible for preparing the players emotionally.

If you can find a former college football player who disagrees with, please ask him to post here. 
And if he was someone who needed a coach to prepare him, ask how much playing time he ever got.

If you need an adult to prepare for emotionally for a college football game, you should go find another sport. 
Football isn't your passion, and you'll never be worth a damn at it.