I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry.

I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - Printable Version

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I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - SUBuddha - 09-09-2015

I will apologize in advance for the wall of text that is to follow. Additionally, have fun with this dyslexics grammar and punctuation at will.

I may anger some people with what I have to say, and I will do my best to not call people out by name. However, as I have read the board since Saturday, I have become more and more disgusted by some of the memes I see boiling over.

I sat there Saturday angry and despondent like all of you, I was frustrated with the play calling, but I never thought to myself that David should be fired, nor did I question his right to coach the team. I live and breathe Stanford football. I am a 4th generation alum, I have never rooted for any other team in my life, despite growing up in Washing during the Don James era. My kids have never heard me say anything other than study hard do well and go to college. Yet they at 4 and 6 both want to go to Stanford, even though they know daddy gets his paychecks from the U of A.
The internet breeds lots of tough guys and know it alls. I try to stick to topics I have some knowledge of, there are a few things I know about that are not within the purview of the board and some that I have a modicum of knowledge about that fit on this board.

One thing I do know is David Shaw. We do not correspond often, and we have not talked face to face since the Arizona game where Skov was hurt. However, I lived next to David for 2 years and he was one of my pledge brothers roommates all four years I was a student at LSJU. For those of you asking to see some fire from him, it is there, and I am sure his players have had more than an earful, but never in a setting where the public is privy to it. That is not how David works. He does get fired up, he does get angry, but he has too much respect for his players, the team and the brand (as some of you call it), to come off like a Stoops, Sark, Kiffin. Remember, he was a player, he grew up in a culture of keeping it in the family and letting the locker room be where people hash out the issues, not publically humiliating players. Some of you seem to suggest the team would be better off if David yelled at a kid on the sideline, or if he was more animated with the refs. To you, I say fornicate that. If that is what you consider leadership you have a far different view of what a good leader is than I do, not that I am right, I have had coaches in football, rugby and lacrosse that run the gamut from public yellers to men who privately held the team accountable. The only teams I played on with winning records where we truly sold out our bodies and minds as a team were teams coached by men like David.

Everyone is harping on how conservative the play calling was. This is all Davids fault in your minds, or as some seem to want to say Shawgren (I fornicating despise that meme personally). You all do remember when our offense was lauded as a complex machine that worked because of how many plays could be run out of a particular set. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt David the co-OC when our offense was so well respected? Last season the meme was he was too conservative in the red zone where he actually called the plays. Now he gets the blame for it all? I am not happy with Bloomgrens calls often, but I know why they are being made.

Then there is the meme that the staff need to do a better job of putting players in a position to use their talents. Please tell me who was being used out of position? Cajuste? Injured, and in a game where you are favored it makes sense not to risk the health of a key player. Rector? Discipline issue, what message does it send to a team if you excuse a kid from punishment because you are losing a game you are expected to win. I saw McCaffery, Owusu and Love used in ways that relied on their speed and play making ability. They failed to make the plays, often because the rest of the play broke down.

Part 2 - SUBuddha - 09-09-2015

The coaches have been blamed for failing to develop talent as well. Arent many of these the same coaches that helped develop players to exceed expectations? Look how much we got out of players who looked like gods on the college field that have failed to live up to their expectations in the pros. Seems to me those players were developed and motivated by their college coaches, albeit in a less competitive situation than the pros, to be so good that we all expected them to blow the NFL away. Maybe our coaches got the most out of those players and their pro coaches deserve some blame for not continuing that growth.

Some say, although less often on this board than other places I get sports news, that Shaw was riding Harbaughs coattails with his recruits. Our recruiting has never been better. We still get kids who claim to value hard work and the grind.

I watched the game thinking everyone looked asleep or slow, like many of you. They went out a day earlier than usual to help avoid that. Should the coaches now have to go 2-3 days early to avoid this? Any of you that travel know that West-East is brutal. It is tough to fall asleep earlier than you are used to and you have to get up earlier (0445 in this case). This leads to much less sleep than is usual. Not an excuse, but it is a reality.

Here is my issue overall, all of the coaching in the world will not change one thing. Players choosing to realize this is not a walkover game and actually putting in effort. What I saw Saturday was a team that no matter what their coaches did were not energetic, not awake and not hungry. No matter what a coach says to you, if you think you are supposed to win the effort is just not the same. People may not like it, but in the greatest upset ever I saw a team that was hungry to prove something and a team that just thought of Stanford as a joke and did not put in the effort that they needed.

NU had everything to gain Saturday, they were amped up from the get go. Stanford wasnt. You can blame the coaches all you want, but at some point the players have to motivate themselves for a nothing game. Should the offense have expanded the play book Saturday? Probably, that does not change the fact that Stanford should of, had the team put forth the effort, been able to run it up the gut on an overmatched NU D-line. I cannot read minds, but I actually think there was a strong message from the coach to the team by sticking with the plays they ran. You think you are better than them, go prove it. Run our bread and butter and make it work. Oh yes, yes that did not work for us against MSU I hear it now from many of you. You know what, NU is not MSU. If everyone was doing their job the power runs and short passes should have led to 30+ points.

Here is what I saw Saturday. Complacent players blowing their assignments. You can only coach the kids to do a job, at some point they have to do the job. I saw one good pass block by McCaffery, however, I saw at least 6 missed pickups by the running backs the rest of the game. I saw multiple dropped passes and dropped interceptions. Hogan was throwing high and hard, he does that every time he gets rushed. Perhaps if he was getting some better blocks he would have been more accurate. On the plays where he had good pass pro he was spot on.
For me it all comes down to this, the coaches do not play on the field. Maybe we are getting so many talented recruits that they feel like they do not have to get up for it because they have the gifts to it without the extra motivation. I dont know.

I do know to lay all of the blame on Hogan and Shaw is patently unfair, and in my mind a bit chicken excrement. A football game is not the end of the universe, nor is it a reason to go on a personal vendetta and attack a single individual on twitter every chance you get, as I have seen some here do.

Finally, keep in mind as passionate as we all are bout Stanford, Stanford sports and the university reputation, it is a freaking game folks. These are coaches working long hours and young men out there risking injury for their love of the game and your entertainment.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - BostonCard - 09-09-2015

Quote:I do know to lay all of the blame on Hogan and Shaw is patently unfair, and in my mind a bit chicken excrement. A football game is not the end of the universe, nor is it a reason to go on a personal vendetta and attack a single individual on twitter every chance you get, as I have seen some here do.

Finally, keep in mind as passionate as we all are bout Stanford, Stanford sports and the university reputation, it is a freaking game folks. These are coaches working long hours and young men out there risking injury for their love of the game and your entertainment.

Thank you for saying what had to be said.Â I try to lay off calling out the players because it's not like they get paid to do this. I know they are capable of playing better, and I am confident they will. But I completely agree that the coaching staff deserves a ton more respect than it has been getting.Â If a decade ago someone had told me that we would get to go to four BCS bowls (two of them Rose Bowls), then have to "endure" an 8-5 season, then lose our opener against Northwestern, I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

I think everyone here is capable of making the point that we should adopt a different offensive philosophy, or that we need to go back to our bread and butter, or whatever disagreement you might have with the coaching staff in a polite and respectful way without using language that makes it personal.

BC

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - SUBuddha - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 12:33 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:
Quote:I do know to lay all of the blame on Hogan and Shaw is patently unfair, and in my mind a bit chicken excrement. A football game is not the end of the universe, nor is it a reason to go on a personal vendetta and attack a single individual on twitter every chance you get, as I have seen some here do.

Finally, keep in mind as passionate as we all are bout Stanford, Stanford sports and the university reputation, it is a freaking game folks. These are coaches working long hours and young men out there risking injury for their love of the game and your entertainment.

Thank you for saying what had to be said.Â I try to lay off calling out the players because it's not like they get paid to do this. I know they are capable of playing better, and I am confident they will. But I completely agree that the coaching staff deserves a ton more respect than it has been getting.Â If a decade ago someone had told me that we would get to go to four BCS bowls (two of them Rose Bowls), then have to "endure" an 8-5 season, then lose our opener against Northwestern, I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

I think everyone here is capable of making the point that we should adopt a different offensive philosophy, or that we need to go back to our bread and butter, or whatever disagreement you might have with the coaching staff in a polite and respectful way without using language that makes it personal.

BC

BC-
I agree, and perhaps in my ire I went a step too far.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - ThePassionOfTheChryst - 09-09-2015

Your points are well-taken and I agree that fans (of all stripes) typically take their fandom too far.Â It is, as you said, a game.Â Stanford fans also happen to be much more well-grounded than some other fan bases.Â However, I will disagree with your assertion that coaches and players do what they do for our entertainment.Â Coaches do it for the six- and seven-figure salaries, and players do it for a variety of reasons: the free education, the groupies, the chance to play professionally, the love of the game.Â Our entertainment is merely incidental.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - SUBuddha - 09-09-2015

POC perhaps you are right, but I doubt those salaries and dreams of pro play would exist if not for the fans who pay for the entertainment.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - martyup - 09-09-2015

I like your passion SUBuddha.Â I suspect most posters here, and most Stanford fans in general, really like and respect coach Shaw.Â He has never shown to be an emotional coach in the public eye.Â Therefore, it shouldn't be surprising when he is seen as calm and collected as his highly touted team is being embarrassed in its season opener.Â It is, however, frustrating for fans that are screaming at their TVs to watch it unfold.Â

Most of the negative Shaw posts I have read on this board have criticized his lack of adjustment on the game plan and some questionable play calling decisions.Â Also, the team made many unforced errors, which points to lack of preparation.Â It is ultimately the head coach that gets the blame for lack of preparation, even if it is the players who made the mistakes on the field.Â I don't recall reading any posts that called for him to be fired at this point.Â If there were such posts, they are ridiculous.

Since early in last season, I have suggested that we need a really good OC on staff.Â It's just my opinion, based on watching this team struggle to score points despite outplaying most teams.Â I think that Shaw is a much better head coach than most in D1 college football.Â I would like to see him succeed and stay at Stanford for many years to come.Â However, I am afraid that his failure to hire a top gun OC will ultimately lead to the demise of his job.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - Ratmandoo - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 01:41 PM)martyup link Wrote:Since early in last season, I have suggested that we need a really good OC on staff.Â It's just my opinion, based on watching this team struggle to score points despite outplaying most teams.Â I think that Shaw is a much better head coach than most in D1 college football.Â I would like to see him succeed and stay at Stanford for many years to come.Â However, I am afraid that his failure to hire a top gun OC will ultimately lead to the demise of his job.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - Rally - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 02:25 PM)Ratmandoo link Wrote:[quote author=martyup link=topic=12719.msg127640#msg127640 date=1441831265]
Since early in last season, I have suggested that we need a really good OC on staff.Â It's just my opinion, based on watching this team struggle to score points despite outplaying most teams.Â I think that Shaw is a much better head coach than most in D1 college football.Â I would like to see him succeed and stay at Stanford for many years to come.Â However, I am afraid that his failure to hire a top gun OC will ultimately lead to the demise of his job.

Who is this mythical OC? I know there were a bunch of SEC teams that went out and hired an elite defensive coordinator this offseason (Auburn hired Muschamp, A&M got Chavis) but look at the price tag. Lane Kiffin is making $700,000 per year. I don't think Stanford is going to pay a coordinator that much money. So then who's available at our budget? Are we taking a chance on someone young? Or going after a veteran who's available (and is available for a reason)? Anyone have any suggestions?
[/quote]

Maybe we don't need a new OC.Â Maybe being both OC and Oline coach is just stretched too thin, to the detriment of the Oline and the offense.Â Do we have the maximum number of coaches allowed?Â

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - Stymie - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 02:25 PM)Ratmandoo link Wrote:[quote author=martyup link=topic=12719.msg127640#msg127640 date=1441831265]
Since early in last season, I have suggested that we need a really good OC on staff.Â It's just my opinion, based on watching this team struggle to score points despite outplaying most teams.Â I think that Shaw is a much better head coach than most in D1 college football.Â I would like to see him succeed and stay at Stanford for many years to come.Â However, I am afraid that his failure to hire a top gun OC will ultimately lead to the demise of his job.

Who is this mythical OC? I know there were a bunch of SEC teams that went out and hired an elite defensive coordinator this offseason (Auburn hired Muschamp, A&M got Chavis) but look at the price tag. Lane Kiffin is making $700,000 per year. I don't think Stanford is going to pay a coordinator that much money. So then who's available at our budget? Are we taking a chance on someone young? Or going after a veteran who's available (and is available for a reason)? Anyone have any suggestions?
[/quote]

Coach Shaw makes $3 million by most accounts.Â If so, his DC and OC ought to be making 7 figure salaries too.Â Does anybody on this board think that Shaw is really worth over 4X Kiffin's salary (from an objective point of view and not an emotional one, please)?

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - washingtonismoney - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 02:52 PM)Stymie link Wrote:Coach Shaw makes $3 million by most accounts.Â If so, his DC and OC ought to be making 7 figure salaries too.Â Does anybody on this board think that Shaw is really worth over 4X Kiffin's salary (from an objective point of view and not an emotional one, please)?

Yes?

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - yvonne - 09-09-2015

+1

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - 82lsju - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 02:59 PM)garvin link Wrote:David Shaw did not win two Rose Bowls and then turn into a moron overnight.

he's won two Rose Bowls?

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - Hulk01 - 09-09-2015

I'm with Buddha on the facts.Â And I appreciate his candor and passion.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - 81alum - 09-09-2015

SUBuddha, I hope I am not one of those who has upset you.Â I have consistently said that Shaw is the perfect head coach for us because of all the reasons you cited.Â He deeply values academics and the entire Stanford experience, having been a student here himself.Â He is NOT coaching for the money--I get tired of hearing that, because he could make a lot more elsewhere.Â I like his public demeanor--which he learned in part from Walsh, who was analytical in public even if he could show some emotion is private settings.Â He can relate to recruits and students in a way that no other coach in recent memory has been able to do.Â

I love Shaw.

I hate our offensive performance.Â Not just Saturday, but I hate a trend I see developing that goes back a full year.

I think the game has been radically changing over the last five years--certainly within the time frame that David followed Harbaugh back to Stanford.Â I am not sure that any quality of coaching or any recruiting classes can EVER reproduce the kind of teams that made us great a few years ago.Â To stay at the top we may have to change.Â Great coaches are adaptable coaches.Â I am hoping that David Shaw will prove that he is a great coach.Â I already know that he is a great man.

I love a board like this because there are a lot of fans who are intelligent, civil, (and sometimes even knowledgeable) who like to experiment with ideas.Â Speculation--even wild speculation--about why things have gone wrong and how things might get better is a distraction for the long days after a disappointing loss.Â These intellectual puzzles are somewhat consoling for fans who are in grief--and yes, a true fanatic is feeling the grief of lost dreams just now.Â Many dreamed for the last 8 months about the possibility a flawless season, and those dreams--whether they were inflated or not-- died in the muggy heat of Evanston.Â Most of us are Stanford grads, and most grads are very bright people who probably over-intellectualize mostÂ everything in life.Â This has been a place we can indulge that and enjoy each other's equally implausible ideas while waiting for the next round to prove us all right or wrong.

SUBuddha, we here on the board might benefit from behaving in the way Shaw recommends that his players behave.Â He warned them after the loss that external forces will seek to create conflict and to pull them apart.Â Let's all pretend, for a moment, that the Cardboard stands in the shoes of those players, and we all might take Coach Shaw's advice to heart.Â Let's look for ways to support each other during our disappointment.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - Rally - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 02:59 PM)garvin link Wrote:Fornicating good posts, SUBuddha. I'm perplexed by people who think Shaw should be having temper tantrums during press conferences, because 1) he's never done that and it seems unlikely he's going to start now, 2) the press conferences are not for players, who can be addressed directly and in private, but for sportswriters and, indirectly, us and 3) that is not necessarily the best management style and certainly not the only legitimate management style.

David Shaw did not win two Rose Bowls and then turn into a moron overnight. Coaches can certainly lose touch with the game or their teams or both. Joe Paterno, Be.ar Bryant and Bobby Bowden are all guys who stuck around past their shelf lives. But at 43, I think David Shaw is kind of young to have lost it. After what we saw last season and how it continued on Saturday, is there valid ground for concern about the team's direction? Absolutely. Should we be comparing him to proven coaching failures and suggesting it's time for him to go? Absolutely not.

I don't think he should rant and rage, ever, but that doesn't preclude letting his team know, during a game, that he expects more.Â I don't remember him showing much elevation, for that matter, over an outstanding play, or even a win.Â When things are going well you might see a faint smile; when things are going badly, no smile.Â Now I have never met the man and maybe he's a real knee-slapped in person, but certainly not in public.Â To answer another post (does it count as saving a tree if I combine comments into one post so as to save virtual paper?) hell YES he's worth 4x Kiffen.Â I can think of numerous coaches I would not want even if their presence meant a national championship.Â This isn't the University of Phoenix with a golf course you know.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - CTcard - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 03:10 PM)garvin link Wrote:
Quote:he's won two Rose Bowls?
Oh, 82lsju, don't tell me you believe in the lamesteam media myths about the outcome of the last Rose Bowl.

Oh no.
Now you're telling me Oregon didn't beat FSU in the last Rose Bowl?

All I thought I knew is mist and myth.

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - 82lsju - 09-09-2015

(09-09-2015, 03:10 PM)garvin link Wrote:
Quote:he's won two Rose Bowls?

Oh, 82lsju, don't tell me you believe in the lamesteam media myths about the outcome of the last Rose Bowl. Next you'll tell me airliners crashed into the Twin Towers on 9/11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx0ApRVGvak

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - BobK - 09-09-2015

Stanford's tax return called Shaw's pay $ 2M.Â Â Other than that good thoughts

Re: I am sorry but some of what I have read here has made me angry. - djones - 09-09-2015

Budda has got this one right.