[jacketree]

Once I had a dream that I blew off the last week of spring quarter to hit Hilton Head with some coeds from Alpha Gam and the Econ dude changed the location of the final without personally calling me on some type of handheld device that didn't exist in 1982, so when I showed up at the normal classroom a full two minutes early only to find it dark, empty, and oppressively hot (oh I guess they do turn off the AC when no one is around), I was pretty f'd.  Then I woke up right? Right?

Staring a big fat "F" and econ do-over right in the face, and with a locked econ department room, I did the only thing you would do in a dream like this - roll over and wish my way back to a South Carolina beach.  But it was no dream, South Carolina would not be visited again for two years, the F would be real, if not very spectacular, and I sprinted the length and breadth of the Georgia Institute of Technology, which while apparently very compact depending upon map scale, really isn't all that compact when the heat and humidity are both pushing the upper 90s, there is a big fat F chasing you down from behind, and the witch cackles with the monkeys in front of the giant hourglass under The Shaft's watchful eye.

Jacketree's Run sans Jenny Agutter  :(

Chemistry building?  Sixth floor?  Are you f'ing kidding me?  Prof just smiled when I burst in with about 45 minutes left in the 3 hour final period, dripping a pool of sweat kids leaving the final would have to sidestep, and panting like some chastened Labrador.  I'll never understand how he could read my sweat-soaked blue book, or maybe he just gave me an A for the physical effort, but I never had to sit through Econ again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK_5cJpM06k

[jacketree]

Once I had a dream that I blew off the last week of spring quarter to hit Hilton Head with some coeds from Alpha Gam and the Econ dude changed the location of the final without personally calling me on some type of handheld device that didn't exist in 1982, so when I showed up at the normal classroom a full two minutes early only to find it dark, empty, and oppressively hot (oh I guess they do turn off the AC when no one is around), I was pretty f'd.  Then I woke up right? Right?

Staring a big fat "F" and econ do-over right in the face, and with a locked econ department room, I did the only thing you would do in a dream like this - roll over and wish my way back to a South Carolina beach.  But it was no dream, South Carolina would not be visited again for two years, the F would be real, if not very spectacular, and I sprinted the length and breadth of the Georgia Institute of Technology, which while apparently very compact depending upon map scale, really isn't all that compact when the heat and humidity are both pushing the upper 90s, there is a big fat F chasing you down from behind, and the witch cackles with the monkeys in front of the giant hourglass under The Shaft's watchful eye.

Jacketree's Run sans Jenny Agutter  :(

Chemistry building?  Sixth floor?  Are you f'ing kidding me?  Prof just smiled when I burst in with about 45 minutes left in the 3 hour final period, dripping a pool of sweat kids leaving the final would have to sidestep, and panting like some chastened Labrador.  I'll never understand how he could read my sweat-soaked blue book, or maybe he just gave me an A for the physical effort, but I never had to sit through Econ again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK_5cJpM06k

[Farm93]

Jacketree,

Back in 1989 I applied to 10.  Many were public schools with rather easy and short applications.  The biggest barrier to applying to more was that applications back then needed to be completed on the paper application provided in the booklet.  So one needed to request the booklets and then type information into the application (no mistakes).  My family was far from rich, but a few hundred dollars on applications was not a problem.

If I was trying to get into schools today I could imagine applying to dozens of schools without much concern.  And a lot of schools have yield rates that suggest that very few kids today are applying to only 2 or 3 schools.

[Farm93]

Jacketree,

Back in 1989 I applied to 10.  Many were public schools with rather easy and short applications.  The biggest barrier to applying to more was that applications back then needed to be completed on the paper application provided in the booklet.  So one needed to request the booklets and then type information into the application (no mistakes).  My family was far from rich, but a few hundred dollars on applications was not a problem.

If I was trying to get into schools today I could imagine applying to dozens of schools without much concern.  And a lot of schools have yield rates that suggest that very few kids today are applying to only 2 or 3 schools.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=82lsju link=topic=9773.msg86977#msg86977 date=1396395658]
I wonder why he applied to all 8.  My impression of the 8 schools is that they are not all that similar and I'd think that you'd weed out a few based on what you were looking for in a college.

That's a good point. Seems like the kid cared more about the credentials than finding the best fit.
[/quote]

I agree... to me that is a mark of somebody who doesn't know what he wants, or who wants to show off by rattling all the Ivy's he got into (or wanted to show that he could get into all).  Of course, in retrospect, my own college application process was very suspect.  I applied to Stanford, USC [yeah, I know], three UC schools (Cal [yeah, I know], UCLA, and UCSD), and two out of state schools: Brown (for their combined BS/MD program) and Hopkins.  If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have applied to fewer and different schools.

Then again, I applied a year after coming to the US from Venezuela, so I was a bit clueless as to the process.

My med school admissions process was a whole other kettle of fish.  I applied to over 20 schools.  I wound up getting into Stanford-East, but the list of schools i didn't get into was extensive (Stanford, UCSF, Wash U, Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell, Duke...), so I guess the strategy of shotgunning made some sense.  Also because the numbers are small, the application process is even more idiosyncratic.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=82lsju link=topic=9773.msg86977#msg86977 date=1396395658]
I wonder why he applied to all 8.  My impression of the 8 schools is that they are not all that similar and I'd think that you'd weed out a few based on what you were looking for in a college.

That's a good point. Seems like the kid cared more about the credentials than finding the best fit.
[/quote]

I agree... to me that is a mark of somebody who doesn't know what he wants, or who wants to show off by rattling all the Ivy's he got into (or wanted to show that he could get into all).  Of course, in retrospect, my own college application process was very suspect.  I applied to Stanford, USC [yeah, I know], three UC schools (Cal [yeah, I know], UCLA, and UCSD), and two out of state schools: Brown (for their combined BS/MD program) and Hopkins.  If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have applied to fewer and different schools.

Then again, I applied a year after coming to the US from Venezuela, so I was a bit clueless as to the process.

My med school admissions process was a whole other kettle of fish.  I applied to over 20 schools.  I wound up getting into Stanford-East, but the list of schools i didn't get into was extensive (Stanford, UCSF, Wash U, Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell, Duke...), so I guess the strategy of shotgunning made some sense.  Also because the numbers are small, the application process is even more idiosyncratic.

BC

[82lsju]

Face it, a few of us would get in now; a lot of us wouldn't. Just like the 40,000 applicants this year.  I'd love some inside scoop. I bet it involves more than a little.....

but this was the case "back in the day", even then there were more than enough "qualified applicants" to fill the class, and for whatever reason those who got the fat envelope were the chosen ones (this from someone who got a thin envelope the first time and a fat envelope the second time).  What has really changed is that when I transferred there were ~100 transfer admits a year, now there are apparently very few.

[82lsju]

Face it, a few of us would get in now; a lot of us wouldn't. Just like the 40,000 applicants this year.  I'd love some inside scoop. I bet it involves more than a little.....

but this was the case "back in the day", even then there were more than enough "qualified applicants" to fill the class, and for whatever reason those who got the fat envelope were the chosen ones (this from someone who got a thin envelope the first time and a fat envelope the second time).  What has really changed is that when I transferred there were ~100 transfer admits a year, now there are apparently very few.

[SUBuddha]

[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=9773.msg86983#msg86983 date=1396398221]

I would love for my kids to be able to go to Stanford, but it is really not an immediate concern as they are only 3 and 5. I have, however, applied for a few positions over the last 3 years in the hopes that if I am working there they may have a better chance of being accepted.

I don't get this last bit at all.  Even if you are working for Stanford, is it really going to improve your kids' chances?

I'm resigned to the fact that my kids chances of getting accepted are vanishingly small, not because they're not smart, great kids, but they don't have anything that really distinguishes them.  Ah, but we still have a few years to go.
[/quote]

Jeff-
It may or may not, but any little edge would be nice (and the tuition reduction for faculty even better). My main concern is to get my kids out of the s***show that is education in AZ before they hit middle school. Anything else is gravy. My 5yo daughter is 4'2" at age 5 and if she holds to the tables I teach should hit about 6'4" if she has more athletic ability than me I am hopeful she can get a scholarship somewhere for the sport of her choice. Keeping in mind that 27% of women's athletic scholarships go unclaimed on average (stats from a higher ed and athletics course I took a couple years ago). I, like many parents, just want my children to have the best chance at the best education possible, and I would happily take a job off my career track if I thought that might improve the chances.

Oh, and I would like my kids to have the chance to go to Stanford, since they already only know Stanford academics and athletics despite me teaching wildcats.

[SUBuddha]

[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=9773.msg86983#msg86983 date=1396398221]

I would love for my kids to be able to go to Stanford, but it is really not an immediate concern as they are only 3 and 5. I have, however, applied for a few positions over the last 3 years in the hopes that if I am working there they may have a better chance of being accepted.

I don't get this last bit at all.  Even if you are working for Stanford, is it really going to improve your kids' chances?

I'm resigned to the fact that my kids chances of getting accepted are vanishingly small, not because they're not smart, great kids, but they don't have anything that really distinguishes them.  Ah, but we still have a few years to go.
[/quote]

Jeff-
It may or may not, but any little edge would be nice (and the tuition reduction for faculty even better). My main concern is to get my kids out of the s***show that is education in AZ before they hit middle school. Anything else is gravy. My 5yo daughter is 4'2" at age 5 and if she holds to the tables I teach should hit about 6'4" if she has more athletic ability than me I am hopeful she can get a scholarship somewhere for the sport of her choice. Keeping in mind that 27% of women's athletic scholarships go unclaimed on average (stats from a higher ed and athletics course I took a couple years ago). I, like many parents, just want my children to have the best chance at the best education possible, and I would happily take a job off my career track if I thought that might improve the chances.

Oh, and I would like my kids to have the chance to go to Stanford, since they already only know Stanford academics and athletics despite me teaching wildcats.

[DC]

[quote author=DC link=topic=9773.msg86995#msg86995 date=1396409475]
[quote author=garvin link=topic=9773.msg86968#msg86968 date=1396391875]
I don't disagree with anything anybody said in this thread. But I'll add one thing: About 10 or 12 years ago, I had a nightmare in which I opened my letter from the Admissions Office to find a rejection. I woke up wanting to vomit, as I did every time the dream recurred over the next few months. I'm sure a shrink would tell me that my sense of self is waaaaaaaaay too wrapped up in where I went to school. But there it is.

I have no idea why the dreams started, nor why they stopped. But they gave me a painful sympathy for those who want to go to Stanford and are rejected.

As an adult long after graduation, I had recurring nightmares about it being the 8th or 9th week of the quarter. Finals were coming up imminently, but I hadn't done the reading, I hadn't written the papers, I hadn't done the homework, and in some courses I hadn't even attended class for weeks - so I didn't even know what I had missed or how far behind I was.  ???  Thankfully, I always woke up before I had to solve that dilemma.  :P

I have an idea why the dreams started  ;), but thankfully those awful dreams stopped many years ago.  ;D
[/quote]


Just turned 40 and I still have these (and have had them for years).  Mine usually manifest themselves as me waking up in something resembling my senior year bed, mid-semester, thinking that there was a midterm that day and realizing that I hadn't even looked at the syllabus for that class, let alone gone.  I don't even know where on campus this class takes place.  These always come when there is added work stress in my life.  Good news is that I haven't had them for a while.
[/quote]

I am not alone in the universe!  ;D

Wow, even in my worst dreams I at least knew where the class took place.  I would be asking my classmates what had happened in the class, so that at least I would know where I stood.  They were usually unhelpful and just gave me a zombie-like blank stare.  :(

[DC]

[quote author=DC link=topic=9773.msg86995#msg86995 date=1396409475]
[quote author=garvin link=topic=9773.msg86968#msg86968 date=1396391875]
I don't disagree with anything anybody said in this thread. But I'll add one thing: About 10 or 12 years ago, I had a nightmare in which I opened my letter from the Admissions Office to find a rejection. I woke up wanting to vomit, as I did every time the dream recurred over the next few months. I'm sure a shrink would tell me that my sense of self is waaaaaaaaay too wrapped up in where I went to school. But there it is.

I have no idea why the dreams started, nor why they stopped. But they gave me a painful sympathy for those who want to go to Stanford and are rejected.

As an adult long after graduation, I had recurring nightmares about it being the 8th or 9th week of the quarter. Finals were coming up imminently, but I hadn't done the reading, I hadn't written the papers, I hadn't done the homework, and in some courses I hadn't even attended class for weeks - so I didn't even know what I had missed or how far behind I was.  ???  Thankfully, I always woke up before I had to solve that dilemma.  :P

I have an idea why the dreams started  ;), but thankfully those awful dreams stopped many years ago.  ;D
[/quote]


Just turned 40 and I still have these (and have had them for years).  Mine usually manifest themselves as me waking up in something resembling my senior year bed, mid-semester, thinking that there was a midterm that day and realizing that I hadn't even looked at the syllabus for that class, let alone gone.  I don't even know where on campus this class takes place.  These always come when there is added work stress in my life.  Good news is that I haven't had them for a while.
[/quote]

I am not alone in the universe!  ;D

Wow, even in my worst dreams I at least knew where the class took place.  I would be asking my classmates what had happened in the class, so that at least I would know where I stood.  They were usually unhelpful and just gave me a zombie-like blank stare.  :(

[Bruce Wang]

Why would getting accepted to UCB be a nightmare?  I would guess many Stanford alums were accepted by UCB.  I would also guess that most have either forgotten all about that acceptance experience or have fond memories of getting an acceptance letter from UCB.

I'm joking.  This is a Stanford board, remember?

[Bruce Wang]

Why would getting accepted to UCB be a nightmare?  I would guess many Stanford alums were accepted by UCB.  I would also guess that most have either forgotten all about that acceptance experience or have fond memories of getting an acceptance letter from UCB.

I'm joking.  This is a Stanford board, remember?

[Bruce Wang]

woohoo! Asian Power!!! (we're tactical about when we take our revenge!)

Revenge is not a dish best served cold.  It is a poison we intend for others, but swallow ourselves.

[Bruce Wang]

woohoo! Asian Power!!! (we're tactical about when we take our revenge!)

Revenge is not a dish best served cold.  It is a poison we intend for others, but swallow ourselves.

[Farm93]

[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=9773.msg86999#msg86999 date=1396410350]
Why would getting accepted to UCB be a nightmare?  I would guess many Stanford alums were accepted by UCB.  I would also guess that most have either forgotten all about that acceptance experience or have fond memories of getting an acceptance letter from UCB.

I'm joking.  This is a Stanford board, remember?
[/quote]
Attending UCB...Now THAT would have been a nightmare.

[Farm93]

[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=9773.msg86999#msg86999 date=1396410350]
Why would getting accepted to UCB be a nightmare?  I would guess many Stanford alums were accepted by UCB.  I would also guess that most have either forgotten all about that acceptance experience or have fond memories of getting an acceptance letter from UCB.

I'm joking.  This is a Stanford board, remember?
[/quote]
Attending UCB...Now THAT would have been a nightmare.

[stupac2]

I generally prefer:



On Colleges

I applied to 4, Stanford (early), Carnegie-Mellon, RPI (I got a huuuuuge scholarship thingie, so why not?) and Cornell, because CMU and RPI were on the common app, so was Cornell, so why not? This was in 2004, and I was definitely unusual in my class to only apply to 4 schools. I would probably do it a lot differently if I were applying now, I'd probably apply to UCLA at least, because damn do I love California. On the other hand, I really am starting to wonder how much of the halving of the admit rate is due to the increase of quality applicants vs common-app spammers with dreams. Hard to tell unless you're on the inside, and there's no way they're telling us that.

Incidentally, I think it's sort of batshit crazy that in the 10 years since I applied to colleges that admit rates have more than halved. Unreal.

On dreams

My academic stress dreams always involve high school, and they always involve somehow having not actually fulfilled my requirements for graduation and needing to take some class or another over (usually math), and the whole process being really convoluted and bizarre. Then I remember that any high school math would be trivial for me and the stress goes away. Weird way to logic my way out of it, but dreams are weird.

[stupac2]

I generally prefer:



On Colleges

I applied to 4, Stanford (early), Carnegie-Mellon, RPI (I got a huuuuuge scholarship thingie, so why not?) and Cornell, because CMU and RPI were on the common app, so was Cornell, so why not? This was in 2004, and I was definitely unusual in my class to only apply to 4 schools. I would probably do it a lot differently if I were applying now, I'd probably apply to UCLA at least, because damn do I love California. On the other hand, I really am starting to wonder how much of the halving of the admit rate is due to the increase of quality applicants vs common-app spammers with dreams. Hard to tell unless you're on the inside, and there's no way they're telling us that.

Incidentally, I think it's sort of batshit crazy that in the 10 years since I applied to colleges that admit rates have more than halved. Unreal.

On dreams

My academic stress dreams always involve high school, and they always involve somehow having not actually fulfilled my requirements for graduation and needing to take some class or another over (usually math), and the whole process being really convoluted and bizarre. Then I remember that any high school math would be trivial for me and the stress goes away. Weird way to logic my way out of it, but dreams are weird.

[82lsju]

below is a link to his essay.

The senior at William Floyd High School applied to a total of 12 colleges because he feared he wouldn’t get into a single one.

The eight Ivys plus Duke, Stony Brook University, SUNY Geneseo and Binghamton University.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/02/this-is-the...l-8-ivies/

[82lsju]

below is a link to his essay.

The senior at William Floyd High School applied to a total of 12 colleges because he feared he wouldn’t get into a single one.

The eight Ivys plus Duke, Stony Brook University, SUNY Geneseo and Binghamton University.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/02/this-is-the...l-8-ivies/

[Stymie]

Most of my recurrent nightmares relate to golf.  Golf is much harder than getting into Stanford.

[Stymie]

Most of my recurrent nightmares relate to golf.  Golf is much harder than getting into Stanford.

[2 for 2028]

On the other hand, I really am starting to wonder how much of the halving of the admit rate is due to the increase of quality applicants vs common-app spammers with dreams. Hard to tell unless you're on the inside, and there's no way they're telling us that.

The fact that the early action admit rate is over 10% suggests to me that it is the latter:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/decem...21313.html

[2 for 2028]

On the other hand, I really am starting to wonder how much of the halving of the admit rate is due to the increase of quality applicants vs common-app spammers with dreams. Hard to tell unless you're on the inside, and there's no way they're telling us that.

The fact that the early action admit rate is over 10% suggests to me that it is the latter:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/decem...21313.html

[Leftcoast]

Having been one of the unexceptional 95%, I know how he feels.  He'll get over it.  - Mick

You are right, of course and who knows what vagaries of an application come into play when deciding between the chosen 5% and the next 20% (or 30% or ...)

I just find it difficult to celebrate that 95% of the kids were turned away, many of whom were deserving or had a close attachment to the school.  Ultimately, kids that were qualified and really wanted to go to Stanford were rejected and  that is the dark side of being the most selective school. 

(Of course, it could just be me.  I also hated the "We got in" cheer that was so popular at games with UCB and USC.)

[Leftcoast]

Having been one of the unexceptional 95%, I know how he feels.  He'll get over it.  - Mick

You are right, of course and who knows what vagaries of an application come into play when deciding between the chosen 5% and the next 20% (or 30% or ...)

I just find it difficult to celebrate that 95% of the kids were turned away, many of whom were deserving or had a close attachment to the school.  Ultimately, kids that were qualified and really wanted to go to Stanford were rejected and  that is the dark side of being the most selective school. 

(Of course, it could just be me.  I also hated the "We got in" cheer that was so popular at games with UCB and USC.)

[CTcard]

[quote author=jacketree link=topic=9773.msg86998#msg86998 date=1396410167]
On the other hand, I really am starting to wonder how much of the halving of the admit rate is due to the increase of quality applicants vs common-app spammers with dreams. Hard to tell unless you're on the inside, and there's no way they're telling us that.

The fact that the early action admit rate is over 10% suggests to me that it is the latter:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/decem...21313.html
[/quote]

Overall, it certainly has to be the latter. Admission rates at almost every school in the country have been plummeting in recent years. Mathematically, this is clearly because on average kids are applying to more schools - though of course in the end they are still attending just one.
The phenomenon seems to be driven by 1) it being easier to apply to many schools as others have noted, and 2) various places that do ratings using acceptance rates as a measure of school selectivity - so schools push it.

Over the course of a few years, there is no demographic change at Stanford (or the Ivies) or in America that could have made admission to those institutions significantly tougher on an absolute scale. This despite the currently rapidly dropping admission rates that are trumpeted by so many schools right about now.

Over the course of many years (60 years a big effect, 30 years less so, 20,10 I don't know the time cutoff), there are many changes that probably have made Stanford tougher to get into, and may have made "elite schools" tougher, though it is hard to tell or even properly define the question.

Stanford has risen in the perceived pantheon of American universities - certainly over 60 years, and also continuing but for the past 20-30 years there has been much upside to move there.

Demographics have jumped around, but the size of the 18 year old cohort in America hasn't changed that much since the height of the baby-boomer years were the biggest for this.

There are also studies I have read (but cannot find right now) that have indicated that the average competence of American high school graduates hasn't changed all that much for 30 years - and just maybe has dropped. However, these were combined with some indication that the distribution has spread - with more students on the wings on both the high and low achieving side. This latter might be an indication that the applicant pool to elite universities has improved.

There are brobdingnagian changes over 60 years in just what students admissions at elite universities are targeting, though these changes were stronger over the start of that time span. There are far more minority students and students from disadvantaged backgrounds at these schools than there used to be, which by definition must mean fewer non-minority students from advantaged backgrounds. That has certainly changed the mix - and almost by definition there is a correlation between that latter group and children of alums. To the extent that is public knowledge, that might serve to bring in more top-level applicants who previously would simply not have tried.

------------------------

Somewhat more meaningful (but not entirely reliable) numbers with respect to weighing the relative perceived attractiveness of various schools is the yield rate and the head to head yield rates (i.e. of the 400 students admitted to both school X and school Y, how many choose X). Stanford has been rising on these, but still trails Harvard.

[CTcard]

[quote author=jacketree link=topic=9773.msg86998#msg86998 date=1396410167]
On the other hand, I really am starting to wonder how much of the halving of the admit rate is due to the increase of quality applicants vs common-app spammers with dreams. Hard to tell unless you're on the inside, and there's no way they're telling us that.

The fact that the early action admit rate is over 10% suggests to me that it is the latter:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/decem...21313.html
[/quote]

Overall, it certainly has to be the latter. Admission rates at almost every school in the country have been plummeting in recent years. Mathematically, this is clearly because on average kids are applying to more schools - though of course in the end they are still attending just one.
The phenomenon seems to be driven by 1) it being easier to apply to many schools as others have noted, and 2) various places that do ratings using acceptance rates as a measure of school selectivity - so schools push it.

Over the course of a few years, there is no demographic change at Stanford (or the Ivies) or in America that could have made admission to those institutions significantly tougher on an absolute scale. This despite the currently rapidly dropping admission rates that are trumpeted by so many schools right about now.

Over the course of many years (60 years a big effect, 30 years less so, 20,10 I don't know the time cutoff), there are many changes that probably have made Stanford tougher to get into, and may have made "elite schools" tougher, though it is hard to tell or even properly define the question.

Stanford has risen in the perceived pantheon of American universities - certainly over 60 years, and also continuing but for the past 20-30 years there has been much upside to move there.

Demographics have jumped around, but the size of the 18 year old cohort in America hasn't changed that much since the height of the baby-boomer years were the biggest for this.

There are also studies I have read (but cannot find right now) that have indicated that the average competence of American high school graduates hasn't changed all that much for 30 years - and just maybe has dropped. However, these were combined with some indication that the distribution has spread - with more students on the wings on both the high and low achieving side. This latter might be an indication that the applicant pool to elite universities has improved.

There are brobdingnagian changes over 60 years in just what students admissions at elite universities are targeting, though these changes were stronger over the start of that time span. There are far more minority students and students from disadvantaged backgrounds at these schools than there used to be, which by definition must mean fewer non-minority students from advantaged backgrounds. That has certainly changed the mix - and almost by definition there is a correlation between that latter group and children of alums. To the extent that is public knowledge, that might serve to bring in more top-level applicants who previously would simply not have tried.

------------------------

Somewhat more meaningful (but not entirely reliable) numbers with respect to weighing the relative perceived attractiveness of various schools is the yield rate and the head to head yield rates (i.e. of the 400 students admitted to both school X and school Y, how many choose X). Stanford has been rising on these, but still trails Harvard.

[Stymie]

I wonder how many 3***, 4**** or 5***** football or basketball players were amongst the unfortunate 95%.........

[Stymie]

I wonder how many 3***, 4**** or 5***** football or basketball players were amongst the unfortunate 95%.........

[CompSci87]

While we're sharing...

I have the "back in school and messing up" dreams at times too. Sometimes I'm back at Stanford having forgotten to apply for graduation from the PhD program. Sometimes I'm there trying to get a second PhD for some insane reason. Sometimes I'm at Stanford or Marquette at the end of term, having failed to attend some of the classes I signed up for, forgotten to drop them, forgot where my locker is, forgot where the classes meet, etc. Sometimes I'm even back in grade school.

Back in 1977 I think I applied to only two schools -- Marquette and UW-Milwaukee -- as my parents wanted me to stay at home. Maybe I applied to UW-Madison too. I had no reason to worry about getting admitted.

Then for grad school I only applied to Stanford and MIT. *That* was pretty arrogant, or perhaps just clueless. Luckily I got into Stanford!

[CompSci87]

While we're sharing...

I have the "back in school and messing up" dreams at times too. Sometimes I'm back at Stanford having forgotten to apply for graduation from the PhD program. Sometimes I'm there trying to get a second PhD for some insane reason. Sometimes I'm at Stanford or Marquette at the end of term, having failed to attend some of the classes I signed up for, forgotten to drop them, forgot where my locker is, forgot where the classes meet, etc. Sometimes I'm even back in grade school.

Back in 1977 I think I applied to only two schools -- Marquette and UW-Milwaukee -- as my parents wanted me to stay at home. Maybe I applied to UW-Madison too. I had no reason to worry about getting admitted.

Then for grad school I only applied to Stanford and MIT. *That* was pretty arrogant, or perhaps just clueless. Luckily I got into Stanford!

[Farm93]

I wonder how many 3***, 4**** or 5***** football or basketball players were amongst the unfortunate 95%.........

Very few.

If those 3-5 star athletes that were accepted had decided to apply to Harvard they would have been accepted there too.  No doubt.  If they opted to go there that 3-5 star athlete would have simply bumped one of the many 1 or 2 star athletes that will attend Harvard.  Meanwhile at Stanford, if that 3-5 star athlete was rejected they would have been replaced by a different 2-5 star athlete.

Those highly qualified, but rejected, applicants are missing the mark when they point to those athletes or others with special talents.

It is much easier to get into Stanford than to become a 5 star athlete.  Any high school kid should know by now that if they have a 40" vertical or can run a 40 in 4.3 seconds then they will have lots of choices.  Since that athlete path is known to everyone in the USA I must suspect that a grumbling HS student likely discovered long ago that they were not going to become a 5 star athlete.

There are plenty of schools around the world that take the best test takers.  I think the USA and the elite American colleges are better for not just picking the kids that master the art of test taking.

[Farm93]

I wonder how many 3***, 4**** or 5***** football or basketball players were amongst the unfortunate 95%.........

Very few.

If those 3-5 star athletes that were accepted had decided to apply to Harvard they would have been accepted there too.  No doubt.  If they opted to go there that 3-5 star athlete would have simply bumped one of the many 1 or 2 star athletes that will attend Harvard.  Meanwhile at Stanford, if that 3-5 star athlete was rejected they would have been replaced by a different 2-5 star athlete.

Those highly qualified, but rejected, applicants are missing the mark when they point to those athletes or others with special talents.

It is much easier to get into Stanford than to become a 5 star athlete.  Any high school kid should know by now that if they have a 40" vertical or can run a 40 in 4.3 seconds then they will have lots of choices.  Since that athlete path is known to everyone in the USA I must suspect that a grumbling HS student likely discovered long ago that they were not going to become a 5 star athlete.

There are plenty of schools around the world that take the best test takers.  I think the USA and the elite American colleges are better for not just picking the kids that master the art of test taking.

[Fresbone]

of Stanford alums whose kid got the thin envelope - or thin email. A day or so after the email, an article ran in the paper indicating the out of the 2000 or so acceptances, there were people from 70 countries. That combined with the fact that 4 underrepresented kids from my son's school with weaker grades, scores, and academic load got accepted leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Right now, it looks like the kids who are truly underrepresented at Stanford are the people whose parents went to college and have jobs.  All in all, I would rather pass on the kids from Holland, Beliz, and UAE, and take more kids from California! I will still root Stanford football and encourage my other kids to apply, but for now...

Go Michigan! :)

[Fresbone]

of Stanford alums whose kid got the thin envelope - or thin email. A day or so after the email, an article ran in the paper indicating the out of the 2000 or so acceptances, there were people from 70 countries. That combined with the fact that 4 underrepresented kids from my son's school with weaker grades, scores, and academic load got accepted leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Right now, it looks like the kids who are truly underrepresented at Stanford are the people whose parents went to college and have jobs.  All in all, I would rather pass on the kids from Holland, Beliz, and UAE, and take more kids from California! I will still root Stanford football and encourage my other kids to apply, but for now...

Go Michigan! :)

[Nan3cy]

I think CTCard has it right. Most kids are applying to so many schools now that the acceptance rates are not quite meaningless  but not as meaningful as they were when people applied to 3 or 4 schools. The yield rates are another matter. 10-15 years ago, IIRC, there were fewer than 20 schools  with yield rates over 50%. (Out of what, 2,000 four-years schools in the country?)  I remember a tour of Tufts in the late 90s where the admissions guy proudly announced that they got 12,000 applications for a class of 1,100. What he didn't mention is that they had to admit over 4,000 in order to get those 1,100 students .

[Nan3cy]

I think CTCard has it right. Most kids are applying to so many schools now that the acceptance rates are not quite meaningless  but not as meaningful as they were when people applied to 3 or 4 schools. The yield rates are another matter. 10-15 years ago, IIRC, there were fewer than 20 schools  with yield rates over 50%. (Out of what, 2,000 four-years schools in the country?)  I remember a tour of Tufts in the late 90s where the admissions guy proudly announced that they got 12,000 applications for a class of 1,100. What he didn't mention is that they had to admit over 4,000 in order to get those 1,100 students .