[71Bear]

Terry:  I do not know the answer to your question re: "regular students".  If I had to guess (again), I would say no, probably not. 

[71Bear]

Terry:  I do not know the answer to your question re: "regular students".  If I had to guess (again), I would say no, probably not. 

[Mick]

I'm sorry, my question wasn't clear.

I'm trying to find out whether regular UC Berkeley students -- non-athletes -- can graduate from high school a semester early and immediately enroll at UC Berkeley for spring semester. If they can do that, how do they get their admissions decisions, given that admissions decisions normally are made in March?

This document says "Berkeley does not accept applications for the spring semester." http://admissions.berkeley.edu/sites/def..._Flier.pdf

Is that correct? Or is it possible for regular students to graduate early and enroll in the spring? Or is that option available only to football players?

I don't believe so.  I know that UCB has a regular Spring orientation for freshmen, but it isn't for frosh who graduated high school in 3.5 years in December, then enroll in January.  It is typically for students who are accepted into UCB for the spring semester following their normal high school graduation...UCB being so impacted that a fairly high number of frosh are accepted, but are forced to wait seven months until they can matriculate.

[Mick]

I'm sorry, my question wasn't clear.

I'm trying to find out whether regular UC Berkeley students -- non-athletes -- can graduate from high school a semester early and immediately enroll at UC Berkeley for spring semester. If they can do that, how do they get their admissions decisions, given that admissions decisions normally are made in March?

This document says "Berkeley does not accept applications for the spring semester." http://admissions.berkeley.edu/sites/def..._Flier.pdf

Is that correct? Or is it possible for regular students to graduate early and enroll in the spring? Or is that option available only to football players?

I don't believe so.  I know that UCB has a regular Spring orientation for freshmen, but it isn't for frosh who graduated high school in 3.5 years in December, then enroll in January.  It is typically for students who are accepted into UCB for the spring semester following their normal high school graduation...UCB being so impacted that a fairly high number of frosh are accepted, but are forced to wait seven months until they can matriculate.

[AlbanyCardinal]

Name true freshman (and Stanford offer aspirant) Jared Goff to the starting position. Interesting move. True freshmen QBs are typically quite bad*, so that and the tough schedule might not combine well.

Seems to me this is a unique case, though, since really both Kline and Goff are "true freshman," in the sense that not only are they working with a new coach but also a very different system from the one used by the previous head coach. And, in fact, said new system is much closer to the one played by the actual true frosh in high school, whereas Kline has no prior experience playing it. The choice isn't as bold as it would otherwise be were Tedford still head coach, imo. And then add that Goff participated in spring practice, furthering evening the field between him and Kline.

[AlbanyCardinal]

Name true freshman (and Stanford offer aspirant) Jared Goff to the starting position. Interesting move. True freshmen QBs are typically quite bad*, so that and the tough schedule might not combine well.

Seems to me this is a unique case, though, since really both Kline and Goff are "true freshman," in the sense that not only are they working with a new coach but also a very different system from the one used by the previous head coach. And, in fact, said new system is much closer to the one played by the actual true frosh in high school, whereas Kline has no prior experience playing it. The choice isn't as bold as it would otherwise be were Tedford still head coach, imo. And then add that Goff participated in spring practice, furthering evening the field between him and Kline.

[washingtonismoney]

Seems to me this is a unique case, though, since really both Kline and Goff are "true freshman," in the sense that not only are they working with a new coach but also a very different system from the one used by the previous head coach. And, in fact, said new system is much closer to the one played by the actual true frosh in high school, whereas Kline has no prior experience playing it. The choice isn't as bold as it would otherwise be were Tedford still head coach, imo. And then add that Goff participated in spring practice, furthering evening the field between him and Kline.

I agree that the Goff-vs-Kline comparison is sui generis, but I think the sample size of true freshmen starting -- in a variety of different situations -- is high enough to conclude most true freshmen starting QBs stink, whatever the particular circumstances of this or that true freshman.

(Here's Matt Hinton's take on true freshman QBs -- ignore the stuff about improvement/regression on QBs -- for an example of the work: http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/8/...uarterback

I've seen another study that argues true freshman QBs improve at a slower rate than redshirted ones, but we'll leave that for another time.

Anyway, note that when you look at the true freshmen starters since 2008, none of them finished the year with a higher QB rating than Hogan's, to give you a benchmark.)

[washingtonismoney]

Seems to me this is a unique case, though, since really both Kline and Goff are "true freshman," in the sense that not only are they working with a new coach but also a very different system from the one used by the previous head coach. And, in fact, said new system is much closer to the one played by the actual true frosh in high school, whereas Kline has no prior experience playing it. The choice isn't as bold as it would otherwise be were Tedford still head coach, imo. And then add that Goff participated in spring practice, furthering evening the field between him and Kline.

I agree that the Goff-vs-Kline comparison is sui generis, but I think the sample size of true freshmen starting -- in a variety of different situations -- is high enough to conclude most true freshmen starting QBs stink, whatever the particular circumstances of this or that true freshman.

(Here's Matt Hinton's take on true freshman QBs -- ignore the stuff about improvement/regression on QBs -- for an example of the work: http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/8/...uarterback

I've seen another study that argues true freshman QBs improve at a slower rate than redshirted ones, but we'll leave that for another time.

Anyway, note that when you look at the true freshmen starters since 2008, none of them finished the year with a higher QB rating than Hogan's, to give you a benchmark.)

[AlbanyCardinal]

I agree that the Goff-vs-Kline comparison is sui generis, but I think the sample size of true freshmen starting -- in a variety of different situations -- is high enough to conclude most true freshmen starting QBs stink, whatever the particular circumstances of this or that true freshman.

I agree with your general point, but I guess I'd also say that Kline would be thrown to the wolves in this case were he to start this season, given new coach and style of offense. There's an argument to be made that Goff maybe less so, not only b/c he's appeared more consistent/productive in practices (according to several cal fans) but b/c of his high school resume.

Regardless, could be a tough year for the bears given that they have arguably the toughest schedule in college football.

[AlbanyCardinal]

I agree that the Goff-vs-Kline comparison is sui generis, but I think the sample size of true freshmen starting -- in a variety of different situations -- is high enough to conclude most true freshmen starting QBs stink, whatever the particular circumstances of this or that true freshman.

I agree with your general point, but I guess I'd also say that Kline would be thrown to the wolves in this case were he to start this season, given new coach and style of offense. There's an argument to be made that Goff maybe less so, not only b/c he's appeared more consistent/productive in practices (according to several cal fans) but b/c of his high school resume.

Regardless, could be a tough year for the bears given that they have arguably the toughest schedule in college football.

[Leftcoast]

I think we're missing the larger philosophical question here - Is it justifiable for Cal QBs be chopped into small pieces and used to feed otherwise starving wolves?

My own modest proposal is the more Cal Players converted to kibble the better.  It's a solution that resolves two problems, the poor state of QB play at C.al and the badly malnourished wolf population west of the Rockies.  Thinking bigger, let's save a couple of small packs in Yellowstone just in case any of C.al's Running Backs get hot. 

Morally it is a justifiable and utilitarian accommodation to two disagreeable realities, yes?

[Leftcoast]

I think we're missing the larger philosophical question here - Is it justifiable for Cal QBs be chopped into small pieces and used to feed otherwise starving wolves?

My own modest proposal is the more Cal Players converted to kibble the better.  It's a solution that resolves two problems, the poor state of QB play at C.al and the badly malnourished wolf population west of the Rockies.  Thinking bigger, let's save a couple of small packs in Yellowstone just in case any of C.al's Running Backs get hot. 

Morally it is a justifiable and utilitarian accommodation to two disagreeable realities, yes?

[washingtonismoney]

Morally it is a justifiable and utilitarian accommodation to two disagreeable realities, yes?

Peter Singer thinks, actually, that it's speciesist to do otherwise.

[washingtonismoney]

Morally it is a justifiable and utilitarian accommodation to two disagreeable realities, yes?

Peter Singer thinks, actually, that it's speciesist to do otherwise.