[jayasena]

To get back to the topic of the article that started this thread, I guess it didn't quite come down to football games. The margin in all but one of the battleground states appears to be greater than the 1.5% swing estimated in the article.

Of course, I hear they are still counting in Garvin's neck of the woods but we don't have to wait for them this time  :P

[jayasena]

To get back to the topic of the article that started this thread, I guess it didn't quite come down to football games. The margin in all but one of the battleground states appears to be greater than the 1.5% swing estimated in the article.

Of course, I hear they are still counting in Garvin's neck of the woods but we don't have to wait for them this time  :P

[jayasena]

To get back to the topic of the article that started this thread, I guess it didn't quite come down to football games. The margin in all but one of the battleground states appears to be greater than the 1.5% swing estimated in the article.

Of course, I hear they are still counting in Garvin's neck of the woods but we don't have to wait for them this time  :P

[jayasena]

To get back to the topic of the article that started this thread, I guess it didn't quite come down to football games. The margin in all but one of the battleground states appears to be greater than the 1.5% swing estimated in the article.

Of course, I hear they are still counting in Garvin's neck of the woods but we don't have to wait for them this time  :P

[Farm93]

Again, I doubt it had anything to do with the the team Under Stanford Control offense.  Draco Malfoy isn't going to want to spin a soft football, and what the receivers want doesn't matter, they're going to have to catch the rock hard game balls in the NFL too.  Somebody was trying to help the kickers.

But there were like two punts in the whole game and really no FGs!  So helping the kickers would have been an even more ridiculous idea.  Punt the ball 14 yards or 70 yards and it does not matter if the D can't stop the Oregon O.  As the game went on it was clear that going for it on 4th down, which is the norm for Oregon, was going to be the SC game too.

The spin and catch thing has been noted on several sites, so perhaps O-Line snappers want something different than WRs?  There too though it is odd.  There is no doubt that SC has the most gifted WRs in the conference.  Do those guys need a softer ball?

And the benefits must be so marginal.  Why would any manager do this clearly unethical thing on their own to "help" the team?  This is not like watering the field for hours on gameday or letting the grass grow nice and tall where the benefits are clear and a coach could encourage the behavior with a wink.  Here the benefits are marginal, questionable or both.  This seems like an idea that a student manager would not develop or implement on their own.

And therefore, I am still in the same place.

Either Kiffin has no organizational control over his staff (a very bad sign given the probation rationale) or somebody very high up knew of the attempt and is fond of cheating (also a bad sign given Kiffin's personal probation history).

So for me it is not the benefit that is the story, the story is in the attempt given the rule problems of the program and the coach.

In any event, it does make the AP headline from two weeks ago rather amusing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sect...id=8564636

Maybe they deflated the balls to match their spirit!  ;)

[Farm93]

Again, I doubt it had anything to do with the the team Under Stanford Control offense.  Draco Malfoy isn't going to want to spin a soft football, and what the receivers want doesn't matter, they're going to have to catch the rock hard game balls in the NFL too.  Somebody was trying to help the kickers.

But there were like two punts in the whole game and really no FGs!  So helping the kickers would have been an even more ridiculous idea.  Punt the ball 14 yards or 70 yards and it does not matter if the D can't stop the Oregon O.  As the game went on it was clear that going for it on 4th down, which is the norm for Oregon, was going to be the SC game too.

The spin and catch thing has been noted on several sites, so perhaps O-Line snappers want something different than WRs?  There too though it is odd.  There is no doubt that SC has the most gifted WRs in the conference.  Do those guys need a softer ball?

And the benefits must be so marginal.  Why would any manager do this clearly unethical thing on their own to "help" the team?  This is not like watering the field for hours on gameday or letting the grass grow nice and tall where the benefits are clear and a coach could encourage the behavior with a wink.  Here the benefits are marginal, questionable or both.  This seems like an idea that a student manager would not develop or implement on their own.

And therefore, I am still in the same place.

Either Kiffin has no organizational control over his staff (a very bad sign given the probation rationale) or somebody very high up knew of the attempt and is fond of cheating (also a bad sign given Kiffin's personal probation history).

So for me it is not the benefit that is the story, the story is in the attempt given the rule problems of the program and the coach.

In any event, it does make the AP headline from two weeks ago rather amusing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sect...id=8564636

Maybe they deflated the balls to match their spirit!  ;)

[Farm93]

Again, I doubt it had anything to do with the the team Under Stanford Control offense.  Draco Malfoy isn't going to want to spin a soft football, and what the receivers want doesn't matter, they're going to have to catch the rock hard game balls in the NFL too.  Somebody was trying to help the kickers.

But there were like two punts in the whole game and really no FGs!  So helping the kickers would have been an even more ridiculous idea.  Punt the ball 14 yards or 70 yards and it does not matter if the D can't stop the Oregon O.  As the game went on it was clear that going for it on 4th down, which is the norm for Oregon, was going to be the SC game too.

The spin and catch thing has been noted on several sites, so perhaps O-Line snappers want something different than WRs?  There too though it is odd.  There is no doubt that SC has the most gifted WRs in the conference.  Do those guys need a softer ball?

And the benefits must be so marginal.  Why would any manager do this clearly unethical thing on their own to "help" the team?  This is not like watering the field for hours on gameday or letting the grass grow nice and tall where the benefits are clear and a coach could encourage the behavior with a wink.  Here the benefits are marginal, questionable or both.  This seems like an idea that a student manager would not develop or implement on their own.

And therefore, I am still in the same place.

Either Kiffin has no organizational control over his staff (a very bad sign given the probation rationale) or somebody very high up knew of the attempt and is fond of cheating (also a bad sign given Kiffin's personal probation history).

So for me it is not the benefit that is the story, the story is in the attempt given the rule problems of the program and the coach.

In any event, it does make the AP headline from two weeks ago rather amusing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sect...id=8564636

Maybe they deflated the balls to match their spirit!  ;)

[Farm93]

Again, I doubt it had anything to do with the the team Under Stanford Control offense.  Draco Malfoy isn't going to want to spin a soft football, and what the receivers want doesn't matter, they're going to have to catch the rock hard game balls in the NFL too.  Somebody was trying to help the kickers.

But there were like two punts in the whole game and really no FGs!  So helping the kickers would have been an even more ridiculous idea.  Punt the ball 14 yards or 70 yards and it does not matter if the D can't stop the Oregon O.  As the game went on it was clear that going for it on 4th down, which is the norm for Oregon, was going to be the SC game too.

The spin and catch thing has been noted on several sites, so perhaps O-Line snappers want something different than WRs?  There too though it is odd.  There is no doubt that SC has the most gifted WRs in the conference.  Do those guys need a softer ball?

And the benefits must be so marginal.  Why would any manager do this clearly unethical thing on their own to "help" the team?  This is not like watering the field for hours on gameday or letting the grass grow nice and tall where the benefits are clear and a coach could encourage the behavior with a wink.  Here the benefits are marginal, questionable or both.  This seems like an idea that a student manager would not develop or implement on their own.

And therefore, I am still in the same place.

Either Kiffin has no organizational control over his staff (a very bad sign given the probation rationale) or somebody very high up knew of the attempt and is fond of cheating (also a bad sign given Kiffin's personal probation history).

So for me it is not the benefit that is the story, the story is in the attempt given the rule problems of the program and the coach.

In any event, it does make the AP headline from two weeks ago rather amusing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sect...id=8564636

Maybe they deflated the balls to match their spirit!  ;)

[dabigv13]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story...cted-alone

Not that I'd ever trust Kiffin on anything, but he doesn't think his kickers would've liked deflated balls.

[dabigv13]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story...cted-alone

Not that I'd ever trust Kiffin on anything, but he doesn't think his kickers would've liked deflated balls.

[dabigv13]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story...cted-alone

Not that I'd ever trust Kiffin on anything, but he doesn't think his kickers would've liked deflated balls.

[dabigv13]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story...cted-alone

Not that I'd ever trust Kiffin on anything, but he doesn't think his kickers would've liked deflated balls.

[Farm93]

The whole thing is weird, but once you clearly embrace cheating as the way to go I guess this can happen. The SC community clearly sees the program as a victim in the Bush/Mayo/McKnight/et al. thing.  A culture where cheating is seen as OK is not going to be stopped by a few people in a compliance department.

After learning more about SC's football selection process I think it is perfectly reasonable to believe that the manager thought they were doing something to help Barkley.  Barkley liked these 6, but wished they were a bit easier to grip, etc.  I (we) will fix that later. 

Given that the kickers are not involved in the ball selection, and no one was planning on punting or kicking FGs I would have to believe the manager (and those that helped him with his decision) believed they were helping Barkley, Woods and Lee.  Though, for the record, I am with Kiffin that the inconsistency ball to ball and vs the practice inflation pressure would be detrimental to winning.

At Stanford I suspect that type of cheating could be an infraction worthy of getting removed from campus, but Stanford has a different view on cheating than SC.

[Farm93]

The whole thing is weird, but once you clearly embrace cheating as the way to go I guess this can happen. The SC community clearly sees the program as a victim in the Bush/Mayo/McKnight/et al. thing.  A culture where cheating is seen as OK is not going to be stopped by a few people in a compliance department.

After learning more about SC's football selection process I think it is perfectly reasonable to believe that the manager thought they were doing something to help Barkley.  Barkley liked these 6, but wished they were a bit easier to grip, etc.  I (we) will fix that later. 

Given that the kickers are not involved in the ball selection, and no one was planning on punting or kicking FGs I would have to believe the manager (and those that helped him with his decision) believed they were helping Barkley, Woods and Lee.  Though, for the record, I am with Kiffin that the inconsistency ball to ball and vs the practice inflation pressure would be detrimental to winning.

At Stanford I suspect that type of cheating could be an infraction worthy of getting removed from campus, but Stanford has a different view on cheating than SC.

[fullmetal]

Might have been someone on the team, maybe the receivers, who nudged the equipment people and dropped a few words in willing ears.  I can see how they wouldn't imagine the possibility of getting caught.

[fullmetal]

Might have been someone on the team, maybe the receivers, who nudged the equipment people and dropped a few words in willing ears.  I can see how they wouldn't imagine the possibility of getting caught.

[fullmetal]

Might have been someone on the team, maybe the receivers, who nudged the equipment people and dropped a few words in willing ears.  I can see how they wouldn't imagine the possibility of getting caught.

[fullmetal]

Might have been someone on the team, maybe the receivers, who nudged the equipment people and dropped a few words in willing ears.  I can see how they wouldn't imagine the possibility of getting caught.

[JohnOlenchalk]

Time together on the sidelines.  They are nearly obverse sides of he same coin. Kickers prefer the softer balls, just soft enough but still compressible, as they are easier to control, and not as hard on their feet.  The rule changes were made because there was a lot of manipulation going on with "kicking" balls on game day, with rumors of unfair advantages, helium and nitrogen gas, everything you could imagine. The new rule wasn't popular with the kickers.  I'm not making this stuff up, they used like to use and preselect their own game balls, I been there when Nick a lowery or Jeff Gossett would get their ball into a game.  I never saw a QB complain a ball was too hard.  The league stepped in and gave control of the game balls to the officials.  I will still bet this was a kicker preference matter, not the QB or receivers.  Somebody knows, lame may not, but then, he probably obfusgate anyway.

[JohnOlenchalk]

Time together on the sidelines.  They are nearly obverse sides of he same coin. Kickers prefer the softer balls, just soft enough but still compressible, as they are easier to control, and not as hard on their feet.  The rule changes were made because there was a lot of manipulation going on with "kicking" balls on game day, with rumors of unfair advantages, helium and nitrogen gas, everything you could imagine. The new rule wasn't popular with the kickers.  I'm not making this stuff up, they used like to use and preselect their own game balls, I been there when Nick a lowery or Jeff Gossett would get their ball into a game.  I never saw a QB complain a ball was too hard.  The league stepped in and gave control of the game balls to the officials.  I will still bet this was a kicker preference matter, not the QB or receivers.  Somebody knows, lame may not, but then, he probably obfusgate anyway.

[JohnOlenchalk]

Time together on the sidelines.  They are nearly obverse sides of he same coin. Kickers prefer the softer balls, just soft enough but still compressible, as they are easier to control, and not as hard on their feet.  The rule changes were made because there was a lot of manipulation going on with "kicking" balls on game day, with rumors of unfair advantages, helium and nitrogen gas, everything you could imagine. The new rule wasn't popular with the kickers.  I'm not making this stuff up, they used like to use and preselect their own game balls, I been there when Nick a lowery or Jeff Gossett would get their ball into a game.  I never saw a QB complain a ball was too hard.  The league stepped in and gave control of the game balls to the officials.  I will still bet this was a kicker preference matter, not the QB or receivers.  Somebody knows, lame may not, but then, he probably obfusgate anyway.

[JohnOlenchalk]

Time together on the sidelines.  They are nearly obverse sides of he same coin. Kickers prefer the softer balls, just soft enough but still compressible, as they are easier to control, and not as hard on their feet.  The rule changes were made because there was a lot of manipulation going on with "kicking" balls on game day, with rumors of unfair advantages, helium and nitrogen gas, everything you could imagine. The new rule wasn't popular with the kickers.  I'm not making this stuff up, they used like to use and preselect their own game balls, I been there when Nick a lowery or Jeff Gossett would get their ball into a game.  I never saw a QB complain a ball was too hard.  The league stepped in and gave control of the game balls to the officials.  I will still bet this was a kicker preference matter, not the QB or receivers.  Somebody knows, lame may not, but then, he probably obfusgate anyway.

[slide]

does SC even have a regular kicker?  hasn't he been hurt much of the year?

[slide]

does SC even have a regular kicker?  hasn't he been hurt much of the year?

[slide]

does SC even have a regular kicker?  hasn't he been hurt much of the year?

[slide]

does SC even have a regular kicker?  hasn't he been hurt much of the year?

[fullmetal]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

[fullmetal]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

[fullmetal]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

[fullmetal]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

[Roberton3]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

SC has Heidari, who is quite a good kicker, but he's had a series of injuries, and they don't have a decent backup.  Kiffin held open tryouts last year after Heidari got hurt.

[Roberton3]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

SC has Heidari, who is quite a good kicker, but he's had a series of injuries, and they don't have a decent backup.  Kiffin held open tryouts last year after Heidari got hurt.

[Roberton3]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

SC has Heidari, who is quite a good kicker, but he's had a series of injuries, and they don't have a decent backup.  Kiffin held open tryouts last year after Heidari got hurt.

[Roberton3]

Yeah, iirc, Lane Kiffin hasn't had a decent kicker in a while.  He held open tryouts last year, didn't he?

SC has Heidari, who is quite a good kicker, but he's had a series of injuries, and they don't have a decent backup.  Kiffin held open tryouts last year after Heidari got hurt.

[CompSci87]

Hee hee -- that's a good riddle.

Q: In what sport other than basketball can you have a lane violation?

A: Lane Violations are common in Southern California football.

[CompSci87]

Hee hee -- that's a good riddle.

Q: In what sport other than basketball can you have a lane violation?

A: Lane Violations are common in Southern California football.

[CompSci87]

Hee hee -- that's a good riddle.

Q: In what sport other than basketball can you have a lane violation?

A: Lane Violations are common in Southern California football.

[CompSci87]

Hee hee -- that's a good riddle.

Q: In what sport other than basketball can you have a lane violation?

A: Lane Violations are common in Southern California football.