[Phogge]

Except in the pocket book it doesn't matter where he gets drafted. What matters is the organization. If he's picked by a Barnum and Bailey outfit like the Browns and Niners it matters. The Patriots are perfect. People there just do their job, and win.

[Phogge]

Except in the pocket book it doesn't matter where he gets drafted. What matters is the organization. If he's picked by a Barnum and Bailey outfit like the Browns and Niners it matters. The Patriots are perfect. People there just do their job, and win.

[BostonCard]

I fail to see how a factually accurate statement is evidence of bias.  McCaffrey is a smaller back than the prototypical NFL running back, and his size/weight was a subject of question marks on this very board.

It would be one thing if the write-up I posted talked about him lacking speed, explosiveness, or athleticism.  Those are all traits that he has in spades, but that aren't associated with white running backs.  But noting that he lacks size isn't bias; it's true.  Moreover, if anything, talking about his size goes a bit against stereotype; for better or worse, you hear words like tough and slow associated with white running backs, even when they have a fair bit of speed (like Toby Gerhart).

I don't dismiss the idea that McCaffrey has been a victim of stereotyping about what a white running back can do, and it may have been a contributing factor to his second place finish in the H-award race.  But I didn't see anything in that article that suggests his evaluation was based on a stereotype of what white running backs are.

[BostonCard]

I fail to see how a factually accurate statement is evidence of bias.  McCaffrey is a smaller back than the prototypical NFL running back, and his size/weight was a subject of question marks on this very board.

It would be one thing if the write-up I posted talked about him lacking speed, explosiveness, or athleticism.  Those are all traits that he has in spades, but that aren't associated with white running backs.  But noting that he lacks size isn't bias; it's true.  Moreover, if anything, talking about his size goes a bit against stereotype; for better or worse, you hear words like tough and slow associated with white running backs, even when they have a fair bit of speed (like Toby Gerhart).

I don't dismiss the idea that McCaffrey has been a victim of stereotyping about what a white running back can do, and it may have been a contributing factor to his second place finish in the H-award race.  But I didn't see anything in that article that suggests his evaluation was based on a stereotype of what white running backs are.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

He will be a first round pick. It only takes one GM to defy conventional wisdom and racial and size stereotypes and come to the conclusion that he is a really really good football player and the best player available at the time of their first round pick.

LaDainian Tomlinson pegged him yesterday as a top-15 pick. It's nice to hear such bullishness from outside the Cardinalsphere, as that would likely give us two top-15 picks. But I fail to see it. He's probably the third running back on my board, and I don't see three backs going in the first 15 picks.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

He will be a first round pick. It only takes one GM to defy conventional wisdom and racial and size stereotypes and come to the conclusion that he is a really really good football player and the best player available at the time of their first round pick.

LaDainian Tomlinson pegged him yesterday as a top-15 pick. It's nice to hear such bullishness from outside the Cardinalsphere, as that would likely give us two top-15 picks. But I fail to see it. He's probably the third running back on my board, and I don't see three backs going in the first 15 picks.

[fullmetal]

My casual read of the tea leaves lines up with ThePOC...it's a brutal business, the NFL, and the RB position is both fungible and stacked this year.

[fullmetal]

My casual read of the tea leaves lines up with ThePOC...it's a brutal business, the NFL, and the RB position is both fungible and stacked this year.

[OutsiderFan]

Here's the thing with McCaffrey...  You have to look at him as more than a RB.  If he runs a 4.4 40 or lower, he will be a first round pick, without question, in part because he can do so many things and essentially expand a roster with one player.

My issue is why do people question his speed, quickness, and toughness, after watching him play? 

[OutsiderFan]

Here's the thing with McCaffrey...  You have to look at him as more than a RB.  If he runs a 4.4 40 or lower, he will be a first round pick, without question, in part because he can do so many things and essentially expand a roster with one player.

My issue is why do people question his speed, quickness, and toughness, after watching him play? 

[fullmetal]

Along the lines of OutsiderFan's optimism, we have this: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/...-fumblers/

Ball security!  CMac is good at it.  Fournette and Cook, not so much.

[fullmetal]

Along the lines of OutsiderFan's optimism, we have this: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/...-fumblers/

Ball security!  CMac is good at it.  Fournette and Cook, not so much.

[CTcard]

Here's the thing with McCaffrey...  You have to look at him as more than a RB.  If he runs a 4.4 40 or lower, he will be a first round pick,

That's probably true.

However, the fastest 40 I remember seeing at least semi-officially quoted for McCaffrey is 4.50.
Looking at last year's combine 40 times among RBs only, a 4.50 would put him at tied for 13th. A 4.40 would put him at second. That's a big gap.
Last Elliott, a power back, ran a 4.47.

My impression is that McCaffrey is plenty fast enough, but not one of the top guys in straight line speed. It seems that when the "who is the fastest guy on the team" question came up, the answers seemed to be Love/Rector/Brandt-Sims, not McCaffrey.  I would expect McCaffrey would look best in things like the shuttles and maybe the jumps, and those probably matter more.

Now, in a logical world it's hard to see how the kind of numbers McCaffrey is likely to put up would hurt his draft stock.
Is the NFL draft a logical world?

[CTcard]

Here's the thing with McCaffrey...  You have to look at him as more than a RB.  If he runs a 4.4 40 or lower, he will be a first round pick,

That's probably true.

However, the fastest 40 I remember seeing at least semi-officially quoted for McCaffrey is 4.50.
Looking at last year's combine 40 times among RBs only, a 4.50 would put him at tied for 13th. A 4.40 would put him at second. That's a big gap.
Last Elliott, a power back, ran a 4.47.

My impression is that McCaffrey is plenty fast enough, but not one of the top guys in straight line speed. It seems that when the "who is the fastest guy on the team" question came up, the answers seemed to be Love/Rector/Brandt-Sims, not McCaffrey.  I would expect McCaffrey would look best in things like the shuttles and maybe the jumps, and those probably matter more.

Now, in a logical world it's hard to see how the kind of numbers McCaffrey is likely to put up would hurt his draft stock.
Is the NFL draft a logical world?

[OutsiderFan]

If McCaffrey skipped the Sun Bowl to prepare for the NFL, you KNOW he has been focusing on nailing down his 40 technique to run the best 40 time he can.  Tyler Gaffney ran the same 40 time as DeAnthony Thomas a few years ago.  I have to believe McCaffrey can run at least as fast.

[OutsiderFan]

If McCaffrey skipped the Sun Bowl to prepare for the NFL, you KNOW he has been focusing on nailing down his 40 technique to run the best 40 time he can.  Tyler Gaffney ran the same 40 time as DeAnthony Thomas a few years ago.  I have to believe McCaffrey can run at least as fast.

[CTcard]

If McCaffrey skipped the Sun Bowl to prepare for the NFL, you KNOW he has been focusing on nailing down his 40 technique to run the best 40 time he can.  Tyler Gaffney ran the same 40 time as DeAnthony Thomas a few years ago.  I have to believe McCaffrey can run at least as fast.

Gaffney ran a 4.49, that's 1/100th faster than I have seen stated for McCaffrey.

No idea if McCaffrey can run faster than Gaffney, but would suspect he could given the near identity of the times I can find for the two.

But (#1), a 4.49 is far from sub 4.40.
But (#2), as I read the draft talk, the concerns about McCaffrey aren't related to his speed.
[though no doubt super-fast speed would help his case]

[CTcard]

If McCaffrey skipped the Sun Bowl to prepare for the NFL, you KNOW he has been focusing on nailing down his 40 technique to run the best 40 time he can.  Tyler Gaffney ran the same 40 time as DeAnthony Thomas a few years ago.  I have to believe McCaffrey can run at least as fast.

Gaffney ran a 4.49, that's 1/100th faster than I have seen stated for McCaffrey.

No idea if McCaffrey can run faster than Gaffney, but would suspect he could given the near identity of the times I can find for the two.

But (#1), a 4.49 is far from sub 4.40.
But (#2), as I read the draft talk, the concerns about McCaffrey aren't related to his speed.
[though no doubt super-fast speed would help his case]

[Phogge]

I can't remember many times when Jerry Rice was caught from behind.

[Phogge]

I can't remember many times when Jerry Rice was caught from behind.

[Mick]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=16407.msg188673#msg188673 date=1487180820]
Here's the thing with McCaffrey...  You have to look at him as more than a RB.  If he runs a 4.4 40 or lower, he will be a first round pick,

That's probably true.

However, the fastest 40 I remember seeing at least semi-officially quoted for McCaffrey is 4.50.
Looking at last year's combine 40 times among RBs only, a 4.50 would put him at tied for 13th. A 4.40 would put him at second. That's a big gap.
Last Elliott, a power back, ran a 4.47.

My impression is that McCaffrey is plenty fast enough, but not one of the top guys in straight line speed. It seems that when the "who is the fastest guy on the team" question came up, the answers seemed to be Love/Rector/Brandt-Sims, not McCaffrey.  I would expect McCaffrey would look best in things like the shuttles and maybe the jumps, and those probably matter more.

Now, in a logical world it's hard to see how the kind of numbers McCaffrey is likely to put up would hurt his draft stock.
Is the NFL draft a logical world?
[/quote]

CMAC's brother Max McCaffrey ran a 4.36 at Duke's Pro Day.  I'm guessing if Christian has been working on his 40 time, he'll beat the 4.50...whether he goes below 4.4 is another story.  This site has Christian at 4.48, third fastest among running backs...and he's the third rated running back and projected to be a first round pick:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pro...&order=ASC

And IIRC, the 20 yard shuttle time is considered more important for running backs than the straight line 40 time.  Christian self-reported a 4.33 shuttle (and a 32" vertical) coming out of high school.

[Mick]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=16407.msg188673#msg188673 date=1487180820]
Here's the thing with McCaffrey...  You have to look at him as more than a RB.  If he runs a 4.4 40 or lower, he will be a first round pick,

That's probably true.

However, the fastest 40 I remember seeing at least semi-officially quoted for McCaffrey is 4.50.
Looking at last year's combine 40 times among RBs only, a 4.50 would put him at tied for 13th. A 4.40 would put him at second. That's a big gap.
Last Elliott, a power back, ran a 4.47.

My impression is that McCaffrey is plenty fast enough, but not one of the top guys in straight line speed. It seems that when the "who is the fastest guy on the team" question came up, the answers seemed to be Love/Rector/Brandt-Sims, not McCaffrey.  I would expect McCaffrey would look best in things like the shuttles and maybe the jumps, and those probably matter more.

Now, in a logical world it's hard to see how the kind of numbers McCaffrey is likely to put up would hurt his draft stock.
Is the NFL draft a logical world?
[/quote]

CMAC's brother Max McCaffrey ran a 4.36 at Duke's Pro Day.  I'm guessing if Christian has been working on his 40 time, he'll beat the 4.50...whether he goes below 4.4 is another story.  This site has Christian at 4.48, third fastest among running backs...and he's the third rated running back and projected to be a first round pick:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pro...&order=ASC

And IIRC, the 20 yard shuttle time is considered more important for running backs than the straight line 40 time.  Christian self-reported a 4.33 shuttle (and a 32" vertical) coming out of high school.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

Third is probably the right place for Christian on the running back hierarchy. The question is, does being the third best running back get you into the first round? If we want to see McCaffrey go in the first round we should be hoping that Fournette and Cook both go in the top 15.

I'm selfish though, and I'd like to see the 49ers draft him with pick 34.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

Third is probably the right place for Christian on the running back hierarchy. The question is, does being the third best running back get you into the first round? If we want to see McCaffrey go in the first round we should be hoping that Fournette and Cook both go in the top 15.

I'm selfish though, and I'd like to see the 49ers draft him with pick 34.

[CTcard]

...  I'm guessing if Christian has been working on his 40 time, he'll beat the 4.50...whether he goes below 4.4 is another story.  This site has Christian at 4.48, third fastest among running backs...and he's the third rated running back and projected to be a first round pick:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pro...&order=ASC

And IIRC, the 20 yard shuttle time is considered more important for running backs than the straight line 40 time. 

That site appears to "project" a 40 time, rather than report an actual measurement, though I cannot find that stated explicitly.
[and they do project some other RBs faster if you go to the ensuing pages]

I would also expect McCaffrey will break 4.50, but expect he will not break 4.40 (the time put forward by OF for McCaffrey to be a first round pick - or perhaps to guarantee he'd be a first round pick).

I also agree that the shuttle is more important, or at least ought to be.

[CTcard]

...  I'm guessing if Christian has been working on his 40 time, he'll beat the 4.50...whether he goes below 4.4 is another story.  This site has Christian at 4.48, third fastest among running backs...and he's the third rated running back and projected to be a first round pick:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pro...&order=ASC

And IIRC, the 20 yard shuttle time is considered more important for running backs than the straight line 40 time. 

That site appears to "project" a 40 time, rather than report an actual measurement, though I cannot find that stated explicitly.
[and they do project some other RBs faster if you go to the ensuing pages]

I would also expect McCaffrey will break 4.50, but expect he will not break 4.40 (the time put forward by OF for McCaffrey to be a first round pick - or perhaps to guarantee he'd be a first round pick).

I also agree that the shuttle is more important, or at least ought to be.

[needle]

2016 top NFL rushers and their 40 time

1. Ezekiel Elliott - 4.47
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0a...-yard-dash
2. Jordan Howard - 4.59
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/j...id=2555418
3. DeMarco Murray - 4.41
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dema...id=2495207
4. Jay Ajayi - 4.57
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/j...id=2552582
5. Le'veon Bell - 4.60
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/le'v...id=2540175
6. LeSean McCoy - 4.50
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/dr...ombine.htm

You get the idea. Running a sub 4.5 is not required for NFL success.

[needle]

2016 top NFL rushers and their 40 time

1. Ezekiel Elliott - 4.47
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0a...-yard-dash
2. Jordan Howard - 4.59
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/j...id=2555418
3. DeMarco Murray - 4.41
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dema...id=2495207
4. Jay Ajayi - 4.57
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/j...id=2552582
5. Le'veon Bell - 4.60
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/le'v...id=2540175
6. LeSean McCoy - 4.50
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/dr...ombine.htm

You get the idea. Running a sub 4.5 is not required for NFL success.

[OutsiderFan]

2016 top NFL rushers and their 40 time

1. Ezekiel Elliott - 4.47
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0a...-yard-dash
2. Jordan Howard - 4.59
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/j...id=2555418
3. DeMarco Murray - 4.41
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dema...id=2495207
4. Jay Ajayi - 4.57
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/j...id=2552582
5. Le'veon Bell - 4.60
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/le'v...id=2540175
6. LeSean McCoy - 4.50
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/dr...ombine.htm

You get the idea. Running a sub 4.5 is not required for NFL success.

True, but none of those guys except Elliott was a first round pick either.  McCaffrey isn't a prototype RB, so he has to do something extraordinary at the combine to cement himself as a 1st rd pick.  NFL people know he can be a terrific player, but they also know terrific players can be drafted after the first round.

I would doubt many teams see McCaffrey as their team's primary ball carrier.  He's a slash player; RB/Slot Receiver/PR/KR, and he might even be a gunner on punt coverage, who knows.  He's a "Swiss Army Knife" player.  This makes him one of the more valuable picks in the draft, but because he is being looked at as a receiver and returner, that 40 time is going to be important.

[OutsiderFan]

2016 top NFL rushers and their 40 time

1. Ezekiel Elliott - 4.47
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0a...-yard-dash
2. Jordan Howard - 4.59
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/j...id=2555418
3. DeMarco Murray - 4.41
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dema...id=2495207
4. Jay Ajayi - 4.57
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/j...id=2552582
5. Le'veon Bell - 4.60
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/le'v...id=2540175
6. LeSean McCoy - 4.50
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/dr...ombine.htm

You get the idea. Running a sub 4.5 is not required for NFL success.

True, but none of those guys except Elliott was a first round pick either.  McCaffrey isn't a prototype RB, so he has to do something extraordinary at the combine to cement himself as a 1st rd pick.  NFL people know he can be a terrific player, but they also know terrific players can be drafted after the first round.

I would doubt many teams see McCaffrey as their team's primary ball carrier.  He's a slash player; RB/Slot Receiver/PR/KR, and he might even be a gunner on punt coverage, who knows.  He's a "Swiss Army Knife" player.  This makes him one of the more valuable picks in the draft, but because he is being looked at as a receiver and returner, that 40 time is going to be important.

[fullmetal]

CMac could be picked up by a team who has question marks at RB and decides that Green Bay's approach to Ty Montgomery would be useful.

[fullmetal]

CMac could be picked up by a team who has question marks at RB and decides that Green Bay's approach to Ty Montgomery would be useful.

[BostonCard]

CMac could be picked up by a team who has question marks at RB and decides that Green Bay's approach to Ty Montgomery would be useful.

It would be funny if Green Bay picked McCaffrey up.  I know they moved Montgomery to running back semi-permanently, but given the success they had using him as a wide receiver/running back, maybe McCaffrey would be a good pick.

BC

P.S. With the Chargers leaving San Diego, I'm adopting Green Bay as my rooting interest.

[BostonCard]

CMac could be picked up by a team who has question marks at RB and decides that Green Bay's approach to Ty Montgomery would be useful.

It would be funny if Green Bay picked McCaffrey up.  I know they moved Montgomery to running back semi-permanently, but given the success they had using him as a wide receiver/running back, maybe McCaffrey would be a good pick.

BC

P.S. With the Chargers leaving San Diego, I'm adopting Green Bay as my rooting interest.

[fullmetal]

Maybe GB trades Ty for value and drafts CMac...

[fullmetal]

Maybe GB trades Ty for value and drafts CMac...

[Hurlburt88]

brobdingnagian difference to Mac's career if he goes late 1st or early 2nd in terms of playing on a quality team & not being pressed into situations where he is less likely to succeed.  Being an optimist, I'll predict 4.46 and a late 1st round selection followed by a very distinguished career! 

[Hurlburt88]

brobdingnagian difference to Mac's career if he goes late 1st or early 2nd in terms of playing on a quality team & not being pressed into situations where he is less likely to succeed.  Being an optimist, I'll predict 4.46 and a late 1st round selection followed by a very distinguished career! 

[ColoradoTree]

I fail to see how a factually accurate statement is evidence of bias.  McCaffrey is a smaller back than the prototypical NFL running back, and his size/weight was a subject of question marks on this very board.

It would be one thing if the write-up I posted talked about him lacking speed, explosiveness, or athleticism.  Those are all traits that he has in spades, but that aren't associated with white running backs.  But noting that he lacks size isn't bias; it's true.  Moreover, if anything, talking about his size goes a bit against stereotype; for better or worse, you hear words like tough and slow associated with white running backs, even when they have a fair bit of speed (like Toby Gerhart).

I don't dismiss the idea that McCaffrey has been a victim of stereotyping about what a white running back can do, and it may have been a contributing factor to his second place finish in the H-award race.  But I didn't see anything in that article that suggests his evaluation was based on a stereotype of what white running backs are.

Well said, BC.

[ColoradoTree]

I fail to see how a factually accurate statement is evidence of bias.  McCaffrey is a smaller back than the prototypical NFL running back, and his size/weight was a subject of question marks on this very board.

It would be one thing if the write-up I posted talked about him lacking speed, explosiveness, or athleticism.  Those are all traits that he has in spades, but that aren't associated with white running backs.  But noting that he lacks size isn't bias; it's true.  Moreover, if anything, talking about his size goes a bit against stereotype; for better or worse, you hear words like tough and slow associated with white running backs, even when they have a fair bit of speed (like Toby Gerhart).

I don't dismiss the idea that McCaffrey has been a victim of stereotyping about what a white running back can do, and it may have been a contributing factor to his second place finish in the H-award race.  But I didn't see anything in that article that suggests his evaluation was based on a stereotype of what white running backs are.

Well said, BC.