[chicard]

And yes, that was classic gimme range: not more than 15".

If that's accurate, then I guess that makes sense.  But I replayed the shot a few times, and it didn't look like Stackhouse was that much closer to the hole than Davis was.

[chicard]

And yes, that was classic gimme range: not more than 15".

If that's accurate, then I guess that makes sense.  But I replayed the shot a few times, and it didn't look like Stackhouse was that much closer to the hole than Davis was.

[Nan3cy]

From the Merc article on Stanford's NCAA golf championship:


"It marked only the niht time in NCAA history that a men's and women's team from the same school have won national titles in the same sport."


The men's NCAAs aren't even finished, are they? Is the Bay Area News Group clairvoyant?  :o

[Nan3cy]

From the Merc article on Stanford's NCAA golf championship:


"It marked only the niht time in NCAA history that a men's and women's team from the same school have won national titles in the same sport."


The men's NCAAs aren't even finished, are they? Is the Bay Area News Group clairvoyant?  :o

[Spiny_Norman]

From the Merc article on Stanford's NCAA golf championship:


"It marked only the ninth time in NCAA history that a men's and women's team from the same school have won national titles in the same sport."


The men's NCAAs aren't even finished, are they? Is the Bay Area News Group clairvoyant?  :o

Nancy, I think they mean that these 9 schools are the only ones to win men's and women's golf in any year, not in the same year.  But I hope we send the journalists to the record books to look up which schools have won in the same year.  :)

[Spiny_Norman]

From the Merc article on Stanford's NCAA golf championship:


"It marked only the ninth time in NCAA history that a men's and women's team from the same school have won national titles in the same sport."


The men's NCAAs aren't even finished, are they? Is the Bay Area News Group clairvoyant?  :o

Nancy, I think they mean that these 9 schools are the only ones to win men's and women's golf in any year, not in the same year.  But I hope we send the journalists to the record books to look up which schools have won in the same year.  :)

[Hulk01]

chicard, watch on television instead.  On a phone, par fives look like par threes.

[Hulk01]

chicard, watch on television instead.  On a phone, par fives look like par threes.

[Nan3cy]

That was my first thought too. But there have to be more than nine times schools have won -- sometime or another -- both the men's and women's whatever -- doesn't there? There was one year in the late 90s when Stanford won both men's and women's in three different sports. Last year UConn won both men's and women's basketball. If there are only nine no matter what the year, that makes Stanford's accomplishment in that one year even more mind-boggling... 

[Nan3cy]

That was my first thought too. But there have to be more than nine times schools have won -- sometime or another -- both the men's and women's whatever -- doesn't there? There was one year in the late 90s when Stanford won both men's and women's in three different sports. Last year UConn won both men's and women's basketball. If there are only nine no matter what the year, that makes Stanford's accomplishment in that one year even more mind-boggling... 

[Farm93]

That was my first thought too. But there have to be more than nine times schools have won -- sometime or another -- both the men's and women's whatever -- doesn't there? There was one year in the late 90s when Stanford won both men's and women's in three different sports. Last year UConn won both men's and women's basketball. If there are only nine no matter what the year, that makes Stanford's accomplishment in that one year even more mind-boggling...

Not really.  Women's NCAA was only the 34th ever.  So 9 is pretty solid.  Only 14 schools have ever won the Women's title (according to the wiki page). 

So only 5 of the schools to win on the women's side now do not have men's titles.  And that seems logical.  A school would be highly unlikely to field a women's team unless they were already fielding a men's team.  Schools adding women's sports for Title IX compliance usually select cheap sports.  Golf requires a golf course or frequent access to very good golf courses.  That is not cheap, and likely the only reason you would have those things is if you already have a men's team.  Better to go with bowling and the local bowling alley as the facility.

FWIW - Only ASU has won both in the same year (1990).  Bama won women's title (2012) and then won the men's (2013).  UofA won both in the same decade.

The 5 without a men's title?  Duke, USC, Miami, TCU and Tulsa

All via a quick wikipedia search.

Quick Edit - The original "Only 9" quote should have been only 9 have the double in golf.  As noted loads of schools have won both at some time in other sports.

[Farm93]

That was my first thought too. But there have to be more than nine times schools have won -- sometime or another -- both the men's and women's whatever -- doesn't there? There was one year in the late 90s when Stanford won both men's and women's in three different sports. Last year UConn won both men's and women's basketball. If there are only nine no matter what the year, that makes Stanford's accomplishment in that one year even more mind-boggling...

Not really.  Women's NCAA was only the 34th ever.  So 9 is pretty solid.  Only 14 schools have ever won the Women's title (according to the wiki page). 

So only 5 of the schools to win on the women's side now do not have men's titles.  And that seems logical.  A school would be highly unlikely to field a women's team unless they were already fielding a men's team.  Schools adding women's sports for Title IX compliance usually select cheap sports.  Golf requires a golf course or frequent access to very good golf courses.  That is not cheap, and likely the only reason you would have those things is if you already have a men's team.  Better to go with bowling and the local bowling alley as the facility.

FWIW - Only ASU has won both in the same year (1990).  Bama won women's title (2012) and then won the men's (2013).  UofA won both in the same decade.

The 5 without a men's title?  Duke, USC, Miami, TCU and Tulsa

All via a quick wikipedia search.

Quick Edit - The original "Only 9" quote should have been only 9 have the double in golf.  As noted loads of schools have won both at some time in other sports.

[Hulk01]

Really nice accounts here, guys, and especially to hear from people who rarely if ever play but appreciate what they saw over the last several days.

Among the several things that struck me was Stackhouse's swing on the second shot to the par five that helped net her the birdie. 

I also wish the college teams competed on more real tests like this one.  They play too many courses designed to please avid but merely competent golfers, which means that guys who can just play bomb and gouge can win.

Part of the pleasure we all took in watching was a direct result of the quality of this course's design and the risk/reward that it presents, especially on its closing holes. 

[Hulk01]

Really nice accounts here, guys, and especially to hear from people who rarely if ever play but appreciate what they saw over the last several days.

Among the several things that struck me was Stackhouse's swing on the second shot to the par five that helped net her the birdie. 

I also wish the college teams competed on more real tests like this one.  They play too many courses designed to please avid but merely competent golfers, which means that guys who can just play bomb and gouge can win.

Part of the pleasure we all took in watching was a direct result of the quality of this course's design and the risk/reward that it presents, especially on its closing holes. 

[chicard]

chicard, watch on television instead.  On a phone, par fives look like par threes.

I did.  But perhaps I simply misjudged the distance -- it just looked to me (on the TV) that Stackhouse was more than 15 inches away.

[chicard]

chicard, watch on television instead.  On a phone, par fives look like par threes.

I did.  But perhaps I simply misjudged the distance -- it just looked to me (on the TV) that Stackhouse was more than 15 inches away.

[yvonne]

On the phone, everything's a putt.

[yvonne]

On the phone, everything's a putt.

[Nan3cy]

Quick Edit - The original "Only 9" quote should have been only 9 have the double in golf.  As noted loads of schools have won both at some time in other sports.

Okay, that makes sense. How many schools are there competing in men's and women's golf?

[Nan3cy]

Quick Edit - The original "Only 9" quote should have been only 9 have the double in golf.  As noted loads of schools have won both at some time in other sports.

Okay, that makes sense. How many schools are there competing in men's and women's golf?

[BostonCard]

I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

[BostonCard]

I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

[Farm93]

I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

Drive for show.  Putt for (an NCAA team Title)!!! 

[Farm93]

I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

Drive for show.  Putt for (an NCAA team Title)!!! 

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12165.msg119425#msg119425 date=1432848780]
I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

Does "half" mean tie in this instance?  And what does 2 and 1 mean here?  Thanks, sorry for my ignorance.
[/quote]

Correct, half or halve means a tie on a hole or a match.

2 & 1 means that player A won the match over player B by 2 holes ahead with 1 to play.

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12165.msg119425#msg119425 date=1432848780]
I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

Does "half" mean tie in this instance?  And what does 2 and 1 mean here?  Thanks, sorry for my ignorance.
[/quote]

Correct, half or halve means a tie on a hole or a match.

2 & 1 means that player A won the match over player B by 2 holes ahead with 1 to play.

[Farm93]

halve, yes using ve, is a reference to playing the hole to a draw.  A player can be "up" or "down" on any hole.  If a player wins the first hole they are "1-up".  Their opponent would be "1-down".

If that players wins 5 holes and loses 2 others, the would be "3-up".

If you are "2-up" with only "1" hole to play you can't lose. The contest stops.  And you are declared the winner 2 & 1.  2-up with 1 to go.

Run the numbers a bit and you can see Stackhouse's odds of victory were not very good.

Ignore ties for a moment.  Even if each hole was a 50-50 deal.  She would have only had a 25% chance of winning both holes, and a 12.5% chance of doing that AND winning in extra holes.  Of course, playing the same number of strokes as your opponent at a hole is very common.  Given the Davis merely needed to "halve" either the 17th or 18th.  The probability of a Davis victory after the 16th was probably well in excess of 95%.

I was all set to send those "they worked hard" & "they exceeded expectation" type messages.  #107 was a true gift.  And will be part of Stanford golf lore.

[Farm93]

halve, yes using ve, is a reference to playing the hole to a draw.  A player can be "up" or "down" on any hole.  If a player wins the first hole they are "1-up".  Their opponent would be "1-down".

If that players wins 5 holes and loses 2 others, the would be "3-up".

If you are "2-up" with only "1" hole to play you can't lose. The contest stops.  And you are declared the winner 2 & 1.  2-up with 1 to go.

Run the numbers a bit and you can see Stackhouse's odds of victory were not very good.

Ignore ties for a moment.  Even if each hole was a 50-50 deal.  She would have only had a 25% chance of winning both holes, and a 12.5% chance of doing that AND winning in extra holes.  Of course, playing the same number of strokes as your opponent at a hole is very common.  Given the Davis merely needed to "halve" either the 17th or 18th.  The probability of a Davis victory after the 16th was probably well in excess of 95%.

I was all set to send those "they worked hard" & "they exceeded expectation" type messages.  #107 was a true gift.  And will be part of Stanford golf lore.

[terry]

How many schools are there competing in men's and women's golf?

In Division I, there are 297 schools competing in men's golf and 260 schools competing in women's golf.

[terry]

How many schools are there competing in men's and women's golf?

In Division I, there are 297 schools competing in men's golf and 260 schools competing in women's golf.

[Spiny_Norman]

You can celebrate back at Stanford with the team. 

http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.db...M_ID=30600

[Spiny_Norman]

You can celebrate back at Stanford with the team. 

http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.db...M_ID=30600

[BostonCard]

Ignore ties for a moment.  Even if each hole was a 50-50 deal.  She would have only had a 25% chance of winning both holes, and a 12.5% chance of doing that AND winning in extra holes.  Of course, playing the same number of strokes as your opponent at a hole is very common.  Given the Davis merely needed to "halve" either the 17th or 18th.  The probability of a Davis victory after the 16th was probably well in excess of 95%.

Yeah, the probability of halving a hole is fairly high.  In the final round, 34 out of the 84 holes (40.4%) were halved.  Assuming that was the actual probability of halving the hole, and the probability of winning was half of the rest, then Maria's chances of winning three consecutive holes was 2.6% going into the 17th hole*.

(the probability was a little higher because in reality, she only had to win the first two holes; then she could have won or halved any subsequent hole, so her probability of winning overall was 4.4%.  Another interesting aspect was the fact that although overall, 40% of holes were halved, in the Davis/Stackhouse match only 2 holes were halved; a remarkable 17 out of 19 were won by one or the (and, specifically, 9 by Stackhouse and 8 by Davis).

But the numbers only reinforce your point.  After 16 holes, the fat lady was warming up her pipes.

BC

[BostonCard]

Ignore ties for a moment.  Even if each hole was a 50-50 deal.  She would have only had a 25% chance of winning both holes, and a 12.5% chance of doing that AND winning in extra holes.  Of course, playing the same number of strokes as your opponent at a hole is very common.  Given the Davis merely needed to "halve" either the 17th or 18th.  The probability of a Davis victory after the 16th was probably well in excess of 95%.

Yeah, the probability of halving a hole is fairly high.  In the final round, 34 out of the 84 holes (40.4%) were halved.  Assuming that was the actual probability of halving the hole, and the probability of winning was half of the rest, then Maria's chances of winning three consecutive holes was 2.6% going into the 17th hole*.

(the probability was a little higher because in reality, she only had to win the first two holes; then she could have won or halved any subsequent hole, so her probability of winning overall was 4.4%.  Another interesting aspect was the fact that although overall, 40% of holes were halved, in the Davis/Stackhouse match only 2 holes were halved; a remarkable 17 out of 19 were won by one or the (and, specifically, 9 by Stackhouse and 8 by Davis).

But the numbers only reinforce your point.  After 16 holes, the fat lady was warming up her pipes.

BC

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=12165.msg119440#msg119440 date=1432853993]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12165.msg119437#msg119437 date=1432852934]
[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12165.msg119425#msg119425 date=1432848780]
I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

Does "half" mean tie in this instance?  And what does 2 and 1 mean here?  Thanks, sorry for my ignorance.
[/quote]

Correct, half or halve means a tie on a hole or a match.

2 & 1 means that player A won the match over player B by 2 holes ahead with 1 to play.
[/quote]


So, does the margin of victory on a given hole have weight rather than just win or lose?
[/quote]

Score differential on a hole is meaningless in match play.  If Player A gets a 2 and Player B hits two balls in the water and gets an 8, A wins the hole.  If B gets a 4 and A gets a 5, B wins the hole.  The result is the same.

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=12165.msg119440#msg119440 date=1432853993]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12165.msg119437#msg119437 date=1432852934]
[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12165.msg119425#msg119425 date=1432848780]
I thought conceding the putt was gracious.  I certainly wouldn't have blamed her had she not done so; it seems like the putt was in the grey area, where misses are rare but not completely unheard of, and given the pressure of the championship riding on it, it would have been understandable to make Stackhouse putt it.  Then again, given how money her putt on 18 was, no reason to think Stackhouse wouldn't make it.

Amazing how much putting made a difference in the match.  After Davis made the miraculous shot on 16, she drained a tough putt for the birdie.  Had she not nailed it, she would have halved the hole and Stackhouse could have won it in 18.  The on the 17th Davis had a long but makable putt for birdie, which she just missed; had she nailed it, they would have halved the hole and she'd have won 2 & 1.  Then on 18, there was Stackhouse's money putt.  And, of course, in the extra hole, they each missed a putt; Stackhouse's was a tough birdie putt (I really wanted her to nail it), Davis had a makable par putt.  Both missed, and the rest is history.

BC

Does "half" mean tie in this instance?  And what does 2 and 1 mean here?  Thanks, sorry for my ignorance.
[/quote]

Correct, half or halve means a tie on a hole or a match.

2 & 1 means that player A won the match over player B by 2 holes ahead with 1 to play.
[/quote]


So, does the margin of victory on a given hole have weight rather than just win or lose?
[/quote]

Score differential on a hole is meaningless in match play.  If Player A gets a 2 and Player B hits two balls in the water and gets an 8, A wins the hole.  If B gets a 4 and A gets a 5, B wins the hole.  The result is the same.

[Spiny_Norman]

Ok, I cannot stop reading stories about the women's tournament and Stanford's victory.  The team and Coach Walker are fantastic role models and representatives of the University.  But Mariah Stackhouse is extra special.  Enjoy this article about her.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/27/nca...use-title/

[Spiny_Norman]

Ok, I cannot stop reading stories about the women's tournament and Stanford's victory.  The team and Coach Walker are fantastic role models and representatives of the University.  But Mariah Stackhouse is extra special.  Enjoy this article about her.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/27/nca...use-title/

[CornFed]

The finish by Stackhouse on those last three holes is legendary.  Walking to the 17th tee she had just suffered an emotionally devastating (at least to a mortal) reversal.  Trailing by one and standing in the middle of the 16th fairway, she was looking over at her opponent who was gingerly trying to tiptoe through the bog to get to her ball.  How could Stackhouse NOT have been mentally and emotionally salivating at the prospect of leveling the match?  Instead, Davis hit a remarkable shot.  Beyond remarkable.  Miraculous.  AND sinks the putt.  Instead of winning the hole, Stackhouse loses another hole and her opponent is dormie as they stand on the 17th tee!  Her inner strength is impressive.  To then close birdie, birdie to halve the match and force extra holes is beyond comprehension.  A lifetime achievement.  And yet I think she may have more in store for us.

[CornFed]

The finish by Stackhouse on those last three holes is legendary.  Walking to the 17th tee she had just suffered an emotionally devastating (at least to a mortal) reversal.  Trailing by one and standing in the middle of the 16th fairway, she was looking over at her opponent who was gingerly trying to tiptoe through the bog to get to her ball.  How could Stackhouse NOT have been mentally and emotionally salivating at the prospect of leveling the match?  Instead, Davis hit a remarkable shot.  Beyond remarkable.  Miraculous.  AND sinks the putt.  Instead of winning the hole, Stackhouse loses another hole and her opponent is dormie as they stand on the 17th tee!  Her inner strength is impressive.  To then close birdie, birdie to halve the match and force extra holes is beyond comprehension.  A lifetime achievement.  And yet I think she may have more in store for us.