[OutsiderFan]

I get the sense that OutsiderFan was trying to take the analogy one step too far:

Given how bad the Niners were yesterday against a contending Seattle team, and how the Niners and Stanford offensive performances have tended to mirror each other, it would  be not at all surprising to see Stanford be similarly bad against UCLA. 

That seems a bit too much of a stretch.  Obviously, through a half and change, it hasn't been true.  But aside from that, there is no reason it believe that a poor performance by the Niners against the Seahawks would have augured a bad performance by Stanford against UCLA, any more than a bad performance by Dallas against the Eagles would have predicted a bad performance by us against UCLA.  Nor would the fact that the Eagles playing well against Dallas predict that Oregon will have its way in the Civil War, other than the fact that we would expect that based on the fact that Oregon is good, and Oregon State isn't.  Nor would we expect U$€ to do well against the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends just because Pete Carroll did well against the Niners.

BC

This outcome today is why college football is the best sport in America.

[OutsiderFan]

I get the sense that OutsiderFan was trying to take the analogy one step too far:

Given how bad the Niners were yesterday against a contending Seattle team, and how the Niners and Stanford offensive performances have tended to mirror each other, it would  be not at all surprising to see Stanford be similarly bad against UCLA. 

That seems a bit too much of a stretch.  Obviously, through a half and change, it hasn't been true.  But aside from that, there is no reason it believe that a poor performance by the Niners against the Seahawks would have augured a bad performance by Stanford against UCLA, any more than a bad performance by Dallas against the Eagles would have predicted a bad performance by us against UCLA.  Nor would the fact that the Eagles playing well against Dallas predict that Oregon will have its way in the Civil War, other than the fact that we would expect that based on the fact that Oregon is good, and Oregon State isn't.  Nor would we expect U$€ to do well against the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends just because Pete Carroll did well against the Niners.

BC

This outcome today is why college football is the best sport in America.

[Hulk01]

If Harbaugh hadn't come along, half of the people here would not be here.  They'd have given up years ago.

I am beyond grateful.  His personality, which seems to offend many pro football fans, may have been just what was needed to save our ship.

[Hulk01]

If Harbaugh hadn't come along, half of the people here would not be here.  They'd have given up years ago.

I am beyond grateful.  His personality, which seems to offend many pro football fans, may have been just what was needed to save our ship.

[Redrum]

I have a friend with an Alfa Romeo vintage racer.  Nice little car that runs up to its potential on a good day.  But he and(sometimes we) end up cursing and fiddling when one or more of the sparkplugs foul.  Some days it runs great.  Then mysteriously, sometimes in mid race, it doesn't...and then mysteriously it's back on again.
This oh-so cute analogy applies to Stanford football.  I don't see how Harbaugh-ball at Stanford gets a black eye when we never know which Kevin Hogan is going to show up.  Neither do we know whether Shaw/Bloomgren will make the right calls,  or get the democratic impulse and stick in Seal or Sanders at RB, or whether the OL continues its oh-so gradual improvement or have a day of lapses that make Hogan look like a HS QB.

I for one will love Harbaugh for what he's done for us.  Don't care a flip about his 49er success or failure.  He seems best at taking underperformers and getting them up and headed in the right direction...though I wouldn't wish the Raiders on him for any amount of money.  But his ego will take him where it will.  Our path is Shaw, which is a different challenge altogether.

[Redrum]

I have a friend with an Alfa Romeo vintage racer.  Nice little car that runs up to its potential on a good day.  But he and(sometimes we) end up cursing and fiddling when one or more of the sparkplugs foul.  Some days it runs great.  Then mysteriously, sometimes in mid race, it doesn't...and then mysteriously it's back on again.
This oh-so cute analogy applies to Stanford football.  I don't see how Harbaugh-ball at Stanford gets a black eye when we never know which Kevin Hogan is going to show up.  Neither do we know whether Shaw/Bloomgren will make the right calls,  or get the democratic impulse and stick in Seal or Sanders at RB, or whether the OL continues its oh-so gradual improvement or have a day of lapses that make Hogan look like a HS QB.

I for one will love Harbaugh for what he's done for us.  Don't care a flip about his 49er success or failure.  He seems best at taking underperformers and getting them up and headed in the right direction...though I wouldn't wish the Raiders on him for any amount of money.  But his ego will take him where it will.  Our path is Shaw, which is a different challenge altogether.

[yvonne]

Harbaugh was good for what Harbaugh is good at: being a startup CEO. Those are the guys with the ideas, the guys who can get investors on board. They're not always good at running established companies. In fact, the only startup CEO that I know who was a success at an established company was Steve Jobs. Most companies need something different once the company has established itself. Harbaugh's "enthusiasm unknown to mankind" was necessary to get players, recruits, and to some degree, even fans, to believe that Stanford could be a great team.

What I don't like is the revisionist history of Harbaugh as the impeccable play caller, as the man who could do no wrong. Do we really need a coach who's going to flirt with every college and pro opening that becomes available, sending fans, recruits, and players into a tizzy? Do we really need the constant fear that our team will sink into the constant cycle of a few somewhat good years, followed by some awful rebuilding years?

[yvonne]

Harbaugh was good for what Harbaugh is good at: being a startup CEO. Those are the guys with the ideas, the guys who can get investors on board. They're not always good at running established companies. In fact, the only startup CEO that I know who was a success at an established company was Steve Jobs. Most companies need something different once the company has established itself. Harbaugh's "enthusiasm unknown to mankind" was necessary to get players, recruits, and to some degree, even fans, to believe that Stanford could be a great team.

What I don't like is the revisionist history of Harbaugh as the impeccable play caller, as the man who could do no wrong. Do we really need a coach who's going to flirt with every college and pro opening that becomes available, sending fans, recruits, and players into a tizzy? Do we really need the constant fear that our team will sink into the constant cycle of a few somewhat good years, followed by some awful rebuilding years?

[yvonne]

Well, first, both of those averages are comfortably above average. Second, that's not what he's claiming. Third, there isn't a "Haurbaugh offense", there's just a pretty standard west-coast offense with some newfangled crap added on.

At least according to Jerry Rice, the current 49er offense is NOT the West Coast Offense. WCO requires quick quarterback drops, and affords more improvisation from the receivers, according to Rice.

[yvonne]

Well, first, both of those averages are comfortably above average. Second, that's not what he's claiming. Third, there isn't a "Haurbaugh offense", there's just a pretty standard west-coast offense with some newfangled crap added on.

At least according to Jerry Rice, the current 49er offense is NOT the West Coast Offense. WCO requires quick quarterback drops, and affords more improvisation from the receivers, according to Rice.

[stupac2]

At least according to Jerry Rice, the current 49er offense is NOT the West Coast Offense. WCO requires quick quarterback drops, and affords more improvisation from the receivers, according to Rice.

Well, the game has evolved since Rice was playing, it's entirely possible that his WCO no longer really works and OCs have moved on. But he's probably right, which makes this all the weirder since everything I've ever read about Harbaugh's time at Stanford said he ran a pretty typically WCO.

[stupac2]

At least according to Jerry Rice, the current 49er offense is NOT the West Coast Offense. WCO requires quick quarterback drops, and affords more improvisation from the receivers, according to Rice.

Well, the game has evolved since Rice was playing, it's entirely possible that his WCO no longer really works and OCs have moved on. But he's probably right, which makes this all the weirder since everything I've ever read about Harbaugh's time at Stanford said he ran a pretty typically WCO.

[81alum]

I am a Stanford and a 49ers fan--I have been ever since Walsh.  Harbaugh deserves enormous credit for turning both teams around.  It is very difficult to sustain high levels of success--especially so in the pros where the draft works against it. 

Look at Walsh's record with the 49ers:

2-14
6-10
13-3 super bowl champs
3-6
10-6 lost in NFC championship
15-1 super bowl champs
10-6 lost in wild card game
10-5-1 lost in divisional championship
13-2 lost in divisional championship
10-6 super bowl champs

The glory years of the franchise, run by an ex-Stanford coach who most regard as the greatest influence on the game of the late 20th century, still had down years and numerous unexpected and disappointing losses.

The Harbaugh bashing is utterly ridiculous.  He needs to compile 2-3 seasons of losing records before he would deserve the criticism he is taking.  49ers fans should be very careful what they wish for.  They could dump Harbaugh and get themselves a Mike Nolan to replace him.

[81alum]

I am a Stanford and a 49ers fan--I have been ever since Walsh.  Harbaugh deserves enormous credit for turning both teams around.  It is very difficult to sustain high levels of success--especially so in the pros where the draft works against it. 

Look at Walsh's record with the 49ers:

2-14
6-10
13-3 super bowl champs
3-6
10-6 lost in NFC championship
15-1 super bowl champs
10-6 lost in wild card game
10-5-1 lost in divisional championship
13-2 lost in divisional championship
10-6 super bowl champs

The glory years of the franchise, run by an ex-Stanford coach who most regard as the greatest influence on the game of the late 20th century, still had down years and numerous unexpected and disappointing losses.

The Harbaugh bashing is utterly ridiculous.  He needs to compile 2-3 seasons of losing records before he would deserve the criticism he is taking.  49ers fans should be very careful what they wish for.  They could dump Harbaugh and get themselves a Mike Nolan to replace him.

[BostonCard]

I think the difference is that Walsh didn't ruffle feathers in the front office, while Harbaugh clearly does.  It's a lot easier to have patience through bad seasons with someone you like and enjoy working with than with someone who is constantly antagonizing you.  The Niners should give a long think to how much they are letting personal feelings creep into their decision making, or they could get what they wish for, a pliable and amicable coach who doesn't win.  Of course, it is possible that the current year (which is not even over yet) is not a blip and that this becomes the first year of a trend where the Niners don't make the playoffs, and that getting rid of Harbaugh is necessary.  The problem with this approach is that the evidence of mediocrity to date is very limited; we have 3/4 of one season to base it upon, in contrast to 7 successful years (4 with Stanford and 3 to date with the Niners) that suggest he is a good coach.

If he does get "traded" to the Raiders and succeeds in turning around that franchise, I think that would cement his position as one of the greatest turnaround artists in the game.  But he too should be careful with what he wishes for.  He might get the fresh start he seeks, but in a team that has an abysmal front office staff that cannot win (like the Raiders).

BC

[BostonCard]

I think the difference is that Walsh didn't ruffle feathers in the front office, while Harbaugh clearly does.  It's a lot easier to have patience through bad seasons with someone you like and enjoy working with than with someone who is constantly antagonizing you.  The Niners should give a long think to how much they are letting personal feelings creep into their decision making, or they could get what they wish for, a pliable and amicable coach who doesn't win.  Of course, it is possible that the current year (which is not even over yet) is not a blip and that this becomes the first year of a trend where the Niners don't make the playoffs, and that getting rid of Harbaugh is necessary.  The problem with this approach is that the evidence of mediocrity to date is very limited; we have 3/4 of one season to base it upon, in contrast to 7 successful years (4 with Stanford and 3 to date with the Niners) that suggest he is a good coach.

If he does get "traded" to the Raiders and succeeds in turning around that franchise, I think that would cement his position as one of the greatest turnaround artists in the game.  But he too should be careful with what he wishes for.  He might get the fresh start he seeks, but in a team that has an abysmal front office staff that cannot win (like the Raiders).

BC

[washingtonismoney]

One more point -- ultimately, history is most favorable to people who win championships. If Harbaugh turned the Raiders into a 10-6 team it'd be incredibly impressive. But history probably won't care.

[washingtonismoney]

One more point -- ultimately, history is most favorable to people who win championships. If Harbaugh turned the Raiders into a 10-6 team it'd be incredibly impressive. But history probably won't care.

[yvonne]

The Raiders and Jets both have notoriously bad front offices. Both have excellent draft positions. The 49ers could get some good deals from those teams, but I can imagine Harbaugh nixing both those deals.

[yvonne]

The Raiders and Jets both have notoriously bad front offices. Both have excellent draft positions. The 49ers could get some good deals from those teams, but I can imagine Harbaugh nixing both those deals.