12-19-2013, 10:18 AM
Of note, Ty Montgomery was an All-American kick returner who plays WR. He's a good WR, but he didn't earn All-American status for receiving.
Michigan State schedule
12-19-2013, 10:23 AM
(12-19-2013, 04:07 AM)sarcyspice link Wrote:I think this is the point being made by MSU fans.... your QB may be mobile..... but is he as mobile as Braxton at Ohio State, Or Gardiner at Michigan, Or Armstrong at Nebraska....
in which case he is not going to be something that this D haven't seen before....
I don't think anyone is claiming that you haven't seen a mobile QB before. It's more that Hogan's mobility gives you another thing to account for, which makes stopping the offense more difficult than it would be if he weren't mobile. And while he's not as fast as Braxton Miller, he's pretty strong. Did you see the run in the Oregon game when here shook off THREE different Oregon tacklers to get a first down? He's done that a few times.
Â
Quote:the teams that have given the D some issues this year have been ones where both the QB and RB are elite runners.....
Does Gaffney not count as elite in your book? He's not getting drafted in the first round, but he's a pretty damn good running back.
Quote:I am more interested to see how our DL copes with your OL, and your all american WR goes up against our all american and Jim Thorpe award winning CB
AFAIK there aren't any grades out there on individual positions, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Oregon's CBs being rated as better than yours. Both of those guys are going to be playing on Sundays. How good is your #2?
Also, even if Montgomery gets shut down, do you have a nickel back or LB who can cover Cajuste? Can your #2 keep up with Rector?
(12-19-2013, 04:07 AM)sarcyspice link Wrote:I think this is the point being made by MSU fans.... your QB may be mobile..... but is he as mobile as Braxton at Ohio State, Or Gardiner at Michigan, Or Armstrong at Nebraska....
in which case he is not going to be something that this D haven't seen before....
I don't think anyone is claiming that you haven't seen a mobile QB before. It's more that Hogan's mobility gives you another thing to account for, which makes stopping the offense more difficult than it would be if he weren't mobile. And while he's not as fast as Braxton Miller, he's pretty strong. Did you see the run in the Oregon game when here shook off THREE different Oregon tacklers to get a first down? He's done that a few times.
Â
Quote:the teams that have given the D some issues this year have been ones where both the QB and RB are elite runners.....
Does Gaffney not count as elite in your book? He's not getting drafted in the first round, but he's a pretty damn good running back.
Quote:I am more interested to see how our DL copes with your OL, and your all american WR goes up against our all american and Jim Thorpe award winning CB
AFAIK there aren't any grades out there on individual positions, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Oregon's CBs being rated as better than yours. Both of those guys are going to be playing on Sundays. How good is your #2?
Also, even if Montgomery gets shut down, do you have a nickel back or LB who can cover Cajuste? Can your #2 keep up with Rector?
Currently, Tyler Gaffney has the 7th most rushing yards in the NCAA D1, and he has done it against a strength of schedule ranked #14 in the country. He has 20 TDs, a 5.3 rushing average and over 1,600 rushing yards. Not only is he durable, fast and mobile, he has more yards running than any running back that Michigan State has faced this year, and more TDs than any back that Michigan State has faced this year. As far as elite running backs go, I think you'd have to add him to that category.
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Currently, Tyler Gaffney has the 7th most rushing yards in the NCAA D1, and he has done it against a strength of schedule ranked #14 in the country. He has 20 TDs, a 5.3 rushing average and over 1,600 rushing yards. Not only is he durable, fast and mobile, he has more yards running than any running back that Michigan State has faced this year, and more TDs than any back that Michigan State has faced this year. As far as elite running backs go, I think you'd have to add him to that category.
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12-19-2013, 11:33 AM
(12-19-2013, 10:23 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=sarcyspice link=topic=9160.msg78930#msg78930 date=1387451261]I think this is the point being made by MSU fans.... your QB may be mobile..... but is he as mobile as Braxton at Ohio State, Or Gardiner at Michigan, Or Armstrong at Nebraska....
in which case he is not going to be something that this D haven't seen before....
I don't think anyone is claiming that you haven't seen a mobile QB before. It's more that Hogan's mobility gives you another thing to account for, which makes stopping the offense more difficult than it would be if he weren't mobile. And while he's not as fast as Braxton Miller, he's pretty strong. Did you see the run in the Oregon game when here shook off THREE different Oregon tacklers to get a first down? He's done that a few times.
Â
Quote:the teams that have given the D some issues this year have been ones where both the QB and RB are elite runners.....
Does Gaffney not count as elite in your book? He's not getting drafted in the first round, but he's a pretty damn good running back.
Quote:I am more interested to see how our DL copes with your OL, and your all american WR goes up against our all american and Jim Thorpe award winning CB
AFAIK there aren't any grades out there on individual positions, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Oregon's CBs being rated as better than yours. Both of those guys are going to be playing on Sundays. How good is your #2?
Also, even if Montgomery gets shut down, do you have a nickel back or LB who can cover Cajuste? Can your #2 keep up with Rector?
[/quote]
A QB who can scramble for yards when the play breaks down is definitely something MSU defenders will need to be wary of. As for Oregon's CB, I would be shocked if there exists a single metric suggesting he plays, or is projected to play, at a level equivalent to Dennard. A more realistic comparison would be how this Oregon kid stacks up against MSU's #2 corner, Waynes.
Â
(12-19-2013, 10:23 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=sarcyspice link=topic=9160.msg78930#msg78930 date=1387451261]I think this is the point being made by MSU fans.... your QB may be mobile..... but is he as mobile as Braxton at Ohio State, Or Gardiner at Michigan, Or Armstrong at Nebraska....
in which case he is not going to be something that this D haven't seen before....
I don't think anyone is claiming that you haven't seen a mobile QB before. It's more that Hogan's mobility gives you another thing to account for, which makes stopping the offense more difficult than it would be if he weren't mobile. And while he's not as fast as Braxton Miller, he's pretty strong. Did you see the run in the Oregon game when here shook off THREE different Oregon tacklers to get a first down? He's done that a few times.
Â
Quote:the teams that have given the D some issues this year have been ones where both the QB and RB are elite runners.....
Does Gaffney not count as elite in your book? He's not getting drafted in the first round, but he's a pretty damn good running back.
Quote:I am more interested to see how our DL copes with your OL, and your all american WR goes up against our all american and Jim Thorpe award winning CB
AFAIK there aren't any grades out there on individual positions, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Oregon's CBs being rated as better than yours. Both of those guys are going to be playing on Sundays. How good is your #2?
Also, even if Montgomery gets shut down, do you have a nickel back or LB who can cover Cajuste? Can your #2 keep up with Rector?
[/quote]
A QB who can scramble for yards when the play breaks down is definitely something MSU defenders will need to be wary of. As for Oregon's CB, I would be shocked if there exists a single metric suggesting he plays, or is projected to play, at a level equivalent to Dennard. A more realistic comparison would be how this Oregon kid stacks up against MSU's #2 corner, Waynes.
Â
12-19-2013, 11:36 AM
Quote:I don't think anyone is claiming that you haven't seen a mobile QB before. It's more that Hogan's mobility gives you another thing to account for, which makes stopping the offense more difficult than it would be if he weren't mobile. And while he's not as fast as Braxton Miller, he's pretty strong. Did you see the run in the Oregon game when here shook off THREE different Oregon tacklers to get a first down? He's done that a few times.
Excellent point. Ask the MSU coach if he would rather prepare his defense for a QB with 154.1 pass rating (Hogan's current rate places him at 20th in the country) and averages 0.0 yards per rush or a QB with a 154.1 pass rating and averages 4.1 yards per rush. After you cut through the coach speak ("we want to go against the best...we prepare for the QB in front of us...") I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to scheme his defense to contain the quarterback. Or put another way, would MSU's coach rather his QB gained 1.4 yards per rush (his current rate) or the 4.1 that Hogan achieves?
Quote:I don't think anyone is claiming that you haven't seen a mobile QB before. It's more that Hogan's mobility gives you another thing to account for, which makes stopping the offense more difficult than it would be if he weren't mobile. And while he's not as fast as Braxton Miller, he's pretty strong. Did you see the run in the Oregon game when here shook off THREE different Oregon tacklers to get a first down? He's done that a few times.
Excellent point. Ask the MSU coach if he would rather prepare his defense for a QB with 154.1 pass rating (Hogan's current rate places him at 20th in the country) and averages 0.0 yards per rush or a QB with a 154.1 pass rating and averages 4.1 yards per rush. After you cut through the coach speak ("we want to go against the best...we prepare for the QB in front of us...") I'm sure he'd be happy not to have to scheme his defense to contain the quarterback. Or put another way, would MSU's coach rather his QB gained 1.4 yards per rush (his current rate) or the 4.1 that Hogan achieves?
12-19-2013, 11:43 AM
Quote:As for Oregon's CB, I would be shocked if there exists a single metric suggesting he plays, or is projected to play, at a level equivalent to Dennard.Â
Dude, take off your rose tinted glasses for a minute. I did a quick googe for "nfl draft cornerbacks 2014" and the first link puts Dennard 1st, but Ekpre-Olomu is not far behind (still expected to be 1st round): http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prosp...gs/2014/CB
The second link has Ekpre-Olumu 1st and Denard third: http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/12/7/51...ings-49ers
THe third has IEO 7th and Dennard 10th http://walterfootball.com/draft2014CB.php
Scout.com forecasts IEO being picked 19 and Dennard 21: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft
I ain't saying which of this is right, but if Dennard was far and away the best in the NCAA, I would expect to see more consensus. Or at least expect to see someone rank him 1st and above IEO.
Quote:As for Oregon's CB, I would be shocked if there exists a single metric suggesting he plays, or is projected to play, at a level equivalent to Dennard.Â
Dude, take off your rose tinted glasses for a minute. I did a quick googe for "nfl draft cornerbacks 2014" and the first link puts Dennard 1st, but Ekpre-Olomu is not far behind (still expected to be 1st round): http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prosp...gs/2014/CB
The second link has Ekpre-Olumu 1st and Denard third: http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/12/7/51...ings-49ers
THe third has IEO 7th and Dennard 10th http://walterfootball.com/draft2014CB.php
Scout.com forecasts IEO being picked 19 and Dennard 21: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft
I ain't saying which of this is right, but if Dennard was far and away the best in the NCAA, I would expect to see more consensus. Or at least expect to see someone rank him 1st and above IEO.
12-19-2013, 12:05 PM
(12-19-2013, 11:43 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Quote:As for Oregon's CB, I would be shocked if there exists a single metric suggesting he plays, or is projected to play, at a level equivalent to Dennard.Â
Dude, take off your rose tinted glasses for a minute. I did a quick googe for "nfl draft cornerbacks 2014" and the first link puts Dennard 1st, but Ekpre-Olomu is not far behind (still expected to be 1st round): http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prosp...gs/2014/CB
The second link has Ekpre-Olumu 1st and Denard third: http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/12/7/51...ings-49ers
THe third has IEO 7th and Dennard 10th http://walterfootball.com/draft2014CB.php
Scout.com forecasts IEO being picked 19 and Dennard 21: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft
I ain't saying which of this is right, but if Dennard was far and away the best in the NCAA, I would expect to see more consensus. Or at least expect to see someone rank him 1st and above IEO.
I was about to post basically the same thing, but you did it better anyway. TOO BAD.
One thing I did find is that FEI does have a breakout for passing defense, and overall MSU (#4) is ranked pretty significantly higher than Oregon (#56). USC (#5) is ranked just below them, and that was a pretty poor game for Hogan, in fact it was his worst game as a passer all year. But since the whole offense was derping all over the place that game, I'm not sure how instructive it is. ASU is ranked #8, and Hogan tore them up on the road and at home. I continue to think that this game comes down to whether or not we get derpy offense, if we do then we'll probably lose. If we don't then we're very likely to win. We'll see.
(12-19-2013, 11:43 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Quote:As for Oregon's CB, I would be shocked if there exists a single metric suggesting he plays, or is projected to play, at a level equivalent to Dennard.Â
Dude, take off your rose tinted glasses for a minute. I did a quick googe for "nfl draft cornerbacks 2014" and the first link puts Dennard 1st, but Ekpre-Olomu is not far behind (still expected to be 1st round): http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prosp...gs/2014/CB
The second link has Ekpre-Olumu 1st and Denard third: http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/12/7/51...ings-49ers
THe third has IEO 7th and Dennard 10th http://walterfootball.com/draft2014CB.php
Scout.com forecasts IEO being picked 19 and Dennard 21: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft
I ain't saying which of this is right, but if Dennard was far and away the best in the NCAA, I would expect to see more consensus. Or at least expect to see someone rank him 1st and above IEO.
I was about to post basically the same thing, but you did it better anyway. TOO BAD.
One thing I did find is that FEI does have a breakout for passing defense, and overall MSU (#4) is ranked pretty significantly higher than Oregon (#56). USC (#5) is ranked just below them, and that was a pretty poor game for Hogan, in fact it was his worst game as a passer all year. But since the whole offense was derping all over the place that game, I'm not sure how instructive it is. ASU is ranked #8, and Hogan tore them up on the road and at home. I continue to think that this game comes down to whether or not we get derpy offense, if we do then we'll probably lose. If we don't then we're very likely to win. We'll see.
12-19-2013, 12:19 PM
If you profess to be able to compare college players but are unaware of Ekpre-0lumu, his talent, and the regard in which he is held by NFL scouts and GMs, you are merely professing. The scouts think that Dennard is IEO's equal in coverage and might even be better, but doesn't approach the Duck's lethality against the run. Ekpre-Olumu is an OLB who can cover Brandin Cooks, a helluva combination.Â
Given that the Big Ten runs better than it throws, scouts would argue that IEO would be more valuable to MSU than Dennard. That isn't to denigrate Dennard but merely to give the Duck his due. That sumbitch can play.
Given that the Big Ten runs better than it throws, scouts would argue that IEO would be more valuable to MSU than Dennard. That isn't to denigrate Dennard but merely to give the Duck his due. That sumbitch can play.
If you profess to be able to compare college players but are unaware of Ekpre-0lumu, his talent, and the regard in which he is held by NFL scouts and GMs, you are merely professing. The scouts think that Dennard is IEO's equal in coverage and might even be better, but doesn't approach the Duck's lethality against the run. Ekpre-Olumu is an OLB who can cover Brandin Cooks, a helluva combination.Â
Given that the Big Ten runs better than it throws, scouts would argue that IEO would be more valuable to MSU than Dennard. That isn't to denigrate Dennard but merely to give the Duck his due. That sumbitch can play.
Given that the Big Ten runs better than it throws, scouts would argue that IEO would be more valuable to MSU than Dennard. That isn't to denigrate Dennard but merely to give the Duck his due. That sumbitch can play.
12-19-2013, 01:06 PM
Can he pass the eyeball test? More importantly what does his girlfriend look like? The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
12-19-2013, 01:11 PM
(12-19-2013, 01:06 PM)Cowboy1 link Wrote:The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
This is actually Vandy coach James Franklin's theory on hiring assistant coaches: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...terviews/1
(12-19-2013, 01:06 PM)Cowboy1 link Wrote:The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
This is actually Vandy coach James Franklin's theory on hiring assistant coaches: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...terviews/1
12-19-2013, 01:13 PM
Yeah, that's how Lane Kiffin got hired at Tennessee...worked out *great* for the Vols.
(12-19-2013, 01:06 PM)Cowboy1 link Wrote:Can he pass the eyeball test? More importantly what does his girlfriend look like? The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
...if he had an ugly girlfriend, that wouldn't be my line of reasoning.
And maybe he was butt-ugly. So pulchritude should not a determining factor, one would think.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(12-19-2013, 01:06 PM)Cowboy1 link Wrote:Can he pass the eyeball test? More importantly what does his girlfriend look like? The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
...if he had an ugly girlfriend, that wouldn't be my line of reasoning.
And maybe he was butt-ugly. So pulchritude should not a determining factor, one would think.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-19-2013, 01:31 PM
(12-19-2013, 01:11 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=Cowboy1 link=topic=9160.msg78985#msg78985 date=1387483576]
The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
This is actually Vandy coach James Franklin's theory on hiring assistant coaches: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...terviews/1
[/quote]
I think this is the longest bio i have ever seen on a college football site.
http://www.vucommodores.com/sports/m-foo...39549.html
Updated:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...07520.html
Other quotes "kind of creepy" =>
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...38377.html
Current Vandy coaches and wives. Wonder where they hit on the Franklin meter: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/vand...oaches.pdf
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(12-19-2013, 01:11 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=Cowboy1 link=topic=9160.msg78985#msg78985 date=1387483576]
The best line from "Moneyball" was the scout who said "He has an ugly girlfriend, so he must lack confidence!"
This is actually Vandy coach James Franklin's theory on hiring assistant coaches: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...terviews/1
[/quote]
I think this is the longest bio i have ever seen on a college football site.
http://www.vucommodores.com/sports/m-foo...39549.html
Updated:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...07520.html
Other quotes "kind of creepy" =>
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...38377.html
Current Vandy coaches and wives. Wonder where they hit on the Franklin meter: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/vand...oaches.pdf
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Quote:Current Vandy coaches and wives. Wonder where they hit on the Franklin meter: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/vand...oaches.pdf
[Internal Monologue]Okay, how do I say this without coming across as a total ass...there probably isn't one...should I abort the post?...naah...[/Internal Monologue]
I gotta say, after reading his quote, I was ready for some stunning looking women to be with those Vandy coaches. I was wondering if they would have a Commodorrettes Calendar for the Christmas season. I'm sure they all have "sweet spirits", but my expectations were not met in looking at those photos. Fine looking gals, no doubt, but the way he talked...
It makes you wonder. Why would he say that if, on the face of it, there's no evidence he screens his coaches that way? Or, does he just have unusual taste in women?
Quote:Current Vandy coaches and wives. Wonder where they hit on the Franklin meter: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/vand...oaches.pdf
[Internal Monologue]Okay, how do I say this without coming across as a total ass...there probably isn't one...should I abort the post?...naah...[/Internal Monologue]
I gotta say, after reading his quote, I was ready for some stunning looking women to be with those Vandy coaches. I was wondering if they would have a Commodorrettes Calendar for the Christmas season. I'm sure they all have "sweet spirits", but my expectations were not met in looking at those photos. Fine looking gals, no doubt, but the way he talked...
It makes you wonder. Why would he say that if, on the face of it, there's no evidence he screens his coaches that way? Or, does he just have unusual taste in women?
12-19-2013, 05:23 PM
(12-19-2013, 01:54 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Quote:Current Vandy coaches and wives. Wonder where they hit on the Franklin meter: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/vand...oaches.pdf
[Internal Monologue]Okay, how do I say this without coming across as a total ass...there probably isn't one...should I abort the post?...naah...[/Internal Monologue]
I gotta say, after reading his quote, I was ready for some stunning looking women to be with those Vandy coaches. I was wondering if they would have a Commodorrettes Calendar for the Christmas season. I'm sure they all have "sweet spirits", but my expectations were not met in looking at those photos. Fine looking gals, no doubt, but the way he talked...
It makes you wonder. Why would he say that if, on the face of it, there's no evidence he screens his coaches that way? Or, does he just have unusual taste in women?
Always listen to that internal monologue when you are wondering whether to post something on the internet.Â
Cheers,
Pete F.
(12-19-2013, 01:54 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Quote:Current Vandy coaches and wives. Wonder where they hit on the Franklin meter: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/vand...oaches.pdf
[Internal Monologue]Okay, how do I say this without coming across as a total ass...there probably isn't one...should I abort the post?...naah...[/Internal Monologue]
I gotta say, after reading his quote, I was ready for some stunning looking women to be with those Vandy coaches. I was wondering if they would have a Commodorrettes Calendar for the Christmas season. I'm sure they all have "sweet spirits", but my expectations were not met in looking at those photos. Fine looking gals, no doubt, but the way he talked...
It makes you wonder. Why would he say that if, on the face of it, there's no evidence he screens his coaches that way? Or, does he just have unusual taste in women?
Always listen to that internal monologue when you are wondering whether to post something on the internet.Â
Cheers,
Pete F.
12-20-2013, 01:01 PM
...first, I wonder what Mrs. Franklin said when she read the quote? And second, I wonder what kind of dialogue his assistant coaches had with their wives when those wives read the quote?
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-20-2013, 01:24 PM
Quote: And second, I wonder what kind of dialogue his assistant coaches had with their wives when those wives read the quote?
I'm sure the wives found it very comforting to know that their husband's boss checked them out and thinks their "D-I material"
MSUFAN4320
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12-22-2013, 07:14 PM
(12-19-2013, 12:19 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:If you profess to be able to compare college players but are unaware of Ekpre-0lumu, his talent, and the regard in which he is held by NFL scouts and GMs, you are merely professing. The scouts think that Dennard is IEO's equal in coverage and might even be better, but doesn't approach the Duck's lethality against the run. Ekpre-Olumu is an OLB who can cover Brandin Cooks, a helluva combination.Â
Given that the Big Ten runs better than it throws, scouts would argue that IEO would be more valuable to MSU than Dennard. That isn't to denigrate Dennard but merely to give the Duck his due. That sumbitch can play.
Admittedly, I don't know much about Ekpre-Olumu, but does he play press man coverage all game long? Dennard is put on an island all day and still locks down his man.
(12-19-2013, 12:19 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:If you profess to be able to compare college players but are unaware of Ekpre-0lumu, his talent, and the regard in which he is held by NFL scouts and GMs, you are merely professing. The scouts think that Dennard is IEO's equal in coverage and might even be better, but doesn't approach the Duck's lethality against the run. Ekpre-Olumu is an OLB who can cover Brandin Cooks, a helluva combination.Â
Given that the Big Ten runs better than it throws, scouts would argue that IEO would be more valuable to MSU than Dennard. That isn't to denigrate Dennard but merely to give the Duck his due. That sumbitch can play.
Admittedly, I don't know much about Ekpre-Olumu, but does he play press man coverage all game long? Dennard is put on an island all day and still locks down his man.
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