[yvonne]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=6741.msg62647#msg62647 date=1369635220]
We got outrecruited, plan and simple.

Do you have any basis for saying that?  I don't see any.  It's pretty clear that Shaw and his staff are very good at recruiting.  So I really doubt that they messed this up.  But even if you do everything right when recruiting, you won't get every kid, and that's probably more true at Stanford than it is other places, just because Stanford is so unusual when compared to other schools playing top-notch football.  For some kids, it's the best place in the world for them to go.  And for others, it's not -- and when one of them chooses to go elsewhere, that doesn't necessarily mean "we got outrecruited."  It could just mean that the kid is a better fit somewhere else.  And as long as that's what it is (and I see no evidence to suggest it isn't), that's OK.
[/quote]

I agree with you on almost everything you said, except I don't think WiM was intending to say that we did a bad job recruiting Peppers, only that Michigan won for this particular player. I think a lot of Stanford fans are quick to claim kids are academic casualties. It may be comforting to say that, and most of us think Stanford is the perfect place, but not every player feels that way.

[yvonne]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=6741.msg62647#msg62647 date=1369635220]
We got outrecruited, plan and simple.

Do you have any basis for saying that?  I don't see any.  It's pretty clear that Shaw and his staff are very good at recruiting.  So I really doubt that they messed this up.  But even if you do everything right when recruiting, you won't get every kid, and that's probably more true at Stanford than it is other places, just because Stanford is so unusual when compared to other schools playing top-notch football.  For some kids, it's the best place in the world for them to go.  And for others, it's not -- and when one of them chooses to go elsewhere, that doesn't necessarily mean "we got outrecruited."  It could just mean that the kid is a better fit somewhere else.  And as long as that's what it is (and I see no evidence to suggest it isn't), that's OK.
[/quote]

I agree with you on almost everything you said, except I don't think WiM was intending to say that we did a bad job recruiting Peppers, only that Michigan won for this particular player. I think a lot of Stanford fans are quick to claim kids are academic casualties. It may be comforting to say that, and most of us think Stanford is the perfect place, but not every player feels that way.

[JohnR34231]

With Peppers I believe there is supporting evidence, although I don't know if it would be admissable in court. Specifically his tweet that he was disappointed with his SAT score.

I suspect it wasn't that he only got 1950 and he was aiming for 2000.

[JohnR34231]

With Peppers I believe there is supporting evidence, although I don't know if it would be admissable in court. Specifically his tweet that he was disappointed with his SAT score.

I suspect it wasn't that he only got 1950 and he was aiming for 2000.

[stupac2]

With Peppers I believe there is supporting evidence, although I don't know if it would be admissable in court. Specifically his tweet that he was disappointed with his SAT score.

I suspect it wasn't that he only got 1950 and he was aiming for 2000.

This is OT, but I still don't really know what a good SAT score is now. Is 1950 Stanford-level? I suppose those statistics are probably buried somewhere on Admission's website, I'll see if I can find them.

EDIT: That wasn't hard. Looks like our 25th percentile scores are 680/700/700, so if you can just add those together (dubious but whatever) 2000 is a low score for us.

[stupac2]

With Peppers I believe there is supporting evidence, although I don't know if it would be admissable in court. Specifically his tweet that he was disappointed with his SAT score.

I suspect it wasn't that he only got 1950 and he was aiming for 2000.

This is OT, but I still don't really know what a good SAT score is now. Is 1950 Stanford-level? I suppose those statistics are probably buried somewhere on Admission's website, I'll see if I can find them.

EDIT: That wasn't hard. Looks like our 25th percentile scores are 680/700/700, so if you can just add those together (dubious but whatever) 2000 is a low score for us.

[JohnR34231]

It may be a low score for Stanford in general, but I would be very surprised if many of our recruits over the last two years had scores in excess of that.

We used to estimate that a 1200 2 part SAT was perfectly adequate for a football recruit, as long as everything else was in order. I suspect it is around 1800 on the three part.

[JohnR34231]

It may be a low score for Stanford in general, but I would be very surprised if many of our recruits over the last two years had scores in excess of that.

We used to estimate that a 1200 2 part SAT was perfectly adequate for a football recruit, as long as everything else was in order. I suspect it is around 1800 on the three part.

[stupac2]

It may be a low score for Stanford in general, but I would be very surprised if many of our recruits over the last two years had scores in excess of that.

We used to estimate that a 1200 2 part SAT was perfectly adequate for a football recruit, as long as everything else was in order. I suspect it is around 1800 on the three part.

Yeah I'm sure they're somewhat lower, I was mostly interested for my own edification, these newfangled scores are so meaningless to me...

[stupac2]

It may be a low score for Stanford in general, but I would be very surprised if many of our recruits over the last two years had scores in excess of that.

We used to estimate that a 1200 2 part SAT was perfectly adequate for a football recruit, as long as everything else was in order. I suspect it is around 1800 on the three part.

Yeah I'm sure they're somewhat lower, I was mostly interested for my own edification, these newfangled scores are so meaningless to me...

[Bruce Wang]

Nice article on Daniel Marx.  According to his coach "Daniel catches the ball out of the backfield very well"

http://stanford.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1514698

[Bruce Wang]

Nice article on Daniel Marx.  According to his coach "Daniel catches the ball out of the backfield very well"

http://stanford.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1514698

[CowboyIndian]

This is OT, but I still don't really know what a good SAT score is now. Is 1950 Stanford-level?

Hell...that's what I got on the two-part.

[CowboyIndian]

This is OT, but I still don't really know what a good SAT score is now. Is 1950 Stanford-level?

Hell...that's what I got on the two-part.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=6741.msg62659#msg62659 date=1369684802]
This is OT, but I still don't really know what a good SAT score is now. Is 1950 Stanford-level?

Hell...that's what I got on the two-part.
[/quote]

Hey, not bad. What did you do for the extra 350 points?

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=6741.msg62659#msg62659 date=1369684802]
This is OT, but I still don't really know what a good SAT score is now. Is 1950 Stanford-level?

Hell...that's what I got on the two-part.
[/quote]

Hey, not bad. What did you do for the extra 350 points?

[rudruff]

On the back page there was a box to check for 500 free points.

Didn't you see that?

[rudruff]

On the back page there was a box to check for 500 free points.

Didn't you see that?

[Bruce Wang]

QB David Cornwell, who lists Stanford as a school of interest but never got an offer, has committed to Alabama.  I'd imagine this takes Alabama out of the competition for Keller Chryst.

[Bruce Wang]

QB David Cornwell, who lists Stanford as a school of interest but never got an offer, has committed to Alabama.  I'd imagine this takes Alabama out of the competition for Keller Chryst.

[PrinceLightfoot]

ESPN came out with its top 300 players and reevaluated their initial player rankings.

Looks like Chryst was upgraded by ESPN scouts to the #1 Pocket Passing QB for 2014.
Nifae Lealao was previously an ESPN150 player but has moved down to 266. They have him listed as a DT now instead of DE, so I wonder if that has something to do with the change in rank.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/footba...onsidering

[PrinceLightfoot]

ESPN came out with its top 300 players and reevaluated their initial player rankings.

Looks like Chryst was upgraded by ESPN scouts to the #1 Pocket Passing QB for 2014.
Nifae Lealao was previously an ESPN150 player but has moved down to 266. They have him listed as a DT now instead of DE, so I wonder if that has something to do with the change in rank.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/footba...onsidering

[StannyBoy]

Lealao hasn't done any camps this year to my best knowledge so he's been dropping on every recruiting site. I wouldn't worry about it. And if his dad was truthful when he said he was up to 280 then yes he's probably going to be more of a DT.

[StannyBoy]

Lealao hasn't done any camps this year to my best knowledge so he's been dropping on every recruiting site. I wouldn't worry about it. And if his dad was truthful when he said he was up to 280 then yes he's probably going to be more of a DT.

[FarmBoy]

ESPN put out a set of predictions of where kids will land: http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sport...l-recruits

They  provide a "confidence meter" for each recruit. Here's what they say for kids going to Stanford:

Keller ChrystPalo Alto, Calif./Palo AltoESPN 300 RANK: 21POS: QB-PPHT/WT: 6-4/220STARS:
Stanford

Pittsburgh could be an intriguing choice -- his uncle is the head coach -- and Alabama and USC will continue to push, but Stanford likely has too much going for it for the other schools to overcome. Chryst goes to high school across the street from the Stanford campus and the memory of what Andrew Luck did on The Farm is still strong for Chryst.

High confidence

Solomon ThomasCoppell, Texas/CoppellESPN 300 RANK: 33POS: DEHT/WT: 6-3/256STARS:
Stanford

Thomas is about as tough to read as any recruit nationwide, simply because he truly doesn't know where he wants to go. He doesn't even have a list of favorites right now. But the Cardinal are the team to beat because of what they offer academically as well as their need at DE. Texas is in the mix, and Arkansas is a dark horse.

Medium confidence

Casey TuckerChandler, Ariz./HamiltonESPN 300 RANK: 39POS: OTHT/WT: 6-6/290STARS:
Stanford

Tucker, a former USC commit, enjoyed a visit to Palo Alto, Calif., in late May and has Stanford near the top of his list. The Cardinal have featured arguably the best offensive line in the Pac-12 in recent years and Tucker is drawn by the combination of football and academics.

Medium Confidence

Dalton SchultzSouth Jordan, Utah/BinghamESPN 300 RANK: 149POS: TE-YHT/WT: 6-6/228STARS:
Stanford

Schultz understands the recent history of tight ends at Stanford and is intrigued by the Cardinal. Although he will do his homework on all of his offers, and other Pac-12 programs will go after him hard.

Medium-High Confidence

Seems like a pretty good foundation for a class if we can pull it off. But you'd like to think a team with 3 top-10 finishes, BCS bowls and a conference championship would be able to land more than 4 of the "top 150 players." How are people feeling about the 2014 class at this point? Is Stanford tracking well? Last year everyone seemed to be putting a lot of expectations on this coming class after last year's relatively small group. Do people think it will pan out as hoped?

[FarmBoy]

ESPN put out a set of predictions of where kids will land: http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sport...l-recruits

They  provide a "confidence meter" for each recruit. Here's what they say for kids going to Stanford:

Keller ChrystPalo Alto, Calif./Palo AltoESPN 300 RANK: 21POS: QB-PPHT/WT: 6-4/220STARS:
Stanford

Pittsburgh could be an intriguing choice -- his uncle is the head coach -- and Alabama and USC will continue to push, but Stanford likely has too much going for it for the other schools to overcome. Chryst goes to high school across the street from the Stanford campus and the memory of what Andrew Luck did on The Farm is still strong for Chryst.

High confidence

Solomon ThomasCoppell, Texas/CoppellESPN 300 RANK: 33POS: DEHT/WT: 6-3/256STARS:
Stanford

Thomas is about as tough to read as any recruit nationwide, simply because he truly doesn't know where he wants to go. He doesn't even have a list of favorites right now. But the Cardinal are the team to beat because of what they offer academically as well as their need at DE. Texas is in the mix, and Arkansas is a dark horse.

Medium confidence

Casey TuckerChandler, Ariz./HamiltonESPN 300 RANK: 39POS: OTHT/WT: 6-6/290STARS:
Stanford

Tucker, a former USC commit, enjoyed a visit to Palo Alto, Calif., in late May and has Stanford near the top of his list. The Cardinal have featured arguably the best offensive line in the Pac-12 in recent years and Tucker is drawn by the combination of football and academics.

Medium Confidence

Dalton SchultzSouth Jordan, Utah/BinghamESPN 300 RANK: 149POS: TE-YHT/WT: 6-6/228STARS:
Stanford

Schultz understands the recent history of tight ends at Stanford and is intrigued by the Cardinal. Although he will do his homework on all of his offers, and other Pac-12 programs will go after him hard.

Medium-High Confidence

Seems like a pretty good foundation for a class if we can pull it off. But you'd like to think a team with 3 top-10 finishes, BCS bowls and a conference championship would be able to land more than 4 of the "top 150 players." How are people feeling about the 2014 class at this point? Is Stanford tracking well? Last year everyone seemed to be putting a lot of expectations on this coming class after last year's relatively small group. Do people think it will pan out as hoped?

[socalstanfan1]

Seems like a pretty good foundation for a class if we can pull it off. But you'd like to think a team with 3 top-10 finishes, BCS bowls and a conference championship would be able to land more than 4 of the "top 150 players." How are people feeling about the 2014 class at this point? Is Stanford tracking well? Last year everyone seemed to be putting a lot of expectations on this coming class after last year's relatively small group. Do people think it will pan out as hoped?

I'm actually in a glass-half full mood after seeing this list.  A couple of things you didn't note:

First, Stanford already has two players who are in the top 300 (Brandon Simmons, #272 and Christian McCaffery, #261), so if we wrap up these others that would be 6.  Of the ESPN projections, only USC would have more (if the projected signings come through and nobody defects from any team) with 8.  Oregon, which has had a run of success that is even a bit better than ours only projects to have 2.  When you think about the fact that Stanford is competing nationally and has a smaller pool of student-athletes to draw from, I think landing 6 players would be quite good.  A couple of additional guys I think we have a shot at in the 300: Devante Downs (#203), C.J. Leggett (#219, and camping with us now), Trevon Lee (#228), Nifae Lealao (#266, and who most seem to consider almost a lock for Stanford unless hung up in the admissions process), and Garrett Dickerson (#277, who 24/7 is projecting to Stanford).  If even 2 of those guys choose us (most likely Lealao and Dickerson), that could push our number to 8.  That isn't bad at all.

The 2012 class is clearly the benchmark for great Stanford recruiting classes, and that group was indeed phenomenal, with 6 players (Peat, Murphy, Garnett, Carter, Sanders, and Noor Davis) in the top-150.  But I think what really made that class was the number of players who were 4 stars and high 3 stars just below those top players.  right now, some players who fit in that category It remains to be seen how many of that category of player we get (or if we even get the ones projected to go to us now)


One more note: what do the following players from the class of 2011 all have in common: Kelsey Young, Jordan Richards, Kevin Hogan, Ty Montgomery, Devon Cajuste, Remound Wright, and Kevin Anderson all have in common? They all fell outside of the ESPN 300 rankings, and all of them are projected to play a significant role (or at least have a realistic chance to play such a role, in the case of players like Cajust Wright, and Anderson).  So the rankings really are nice, but it's most important that the coaches evaluate and land players that can help the team. 

[socalstanfan1]

Seems like a pretty good foundation for a class if we can pull it off. But you'd like to think a team with 3 top-10 finishes, BCS bowls and a conference championship would be able to land more than 4 of the "top 150 players." How are people feeling about the 2014 class at this point? Is Stanford tracking well? Last year everyone seemed to be putting a lot of expectations on this coming class after last year's relatively small group. Do people think it will pan out as hoped?

I'm actually in a glass-half full mood after seeing this list.  A couple of things you didn't note:

First, Stanford already has two players who are in the top 300 (Brandon Simmons, #272 and Christian McCaffery, #261), so if we wrap up these others that would be 6.  Of the ESPN projections, only USC would have more (if the projected signings come through and nobody defects from any team) with 8.  Oregon, which has had a run of success that is even a bit better than ours only projects to have 2.  When you think about the fact that Stanford is competing nationally and has a smaller pool of student-athletes to draw from, I think landing 6 players would be quite good.  A couple of additional guys I think we have a shot at in the 300: Devante Downs (#203), C.J. Leggett (#219, and camping with us now), Trevon Lee (#228), Nifae Lealao (#266, and who most seem to consider almost a lock for Stanford unless hung up in the admissions process), and Garrett Dickerson (#277, who 24/7 is projecting to Stanford).  If even 2 of those guys choose us (most likely Lealao and Dickerson), that could push our number to 8.  That isn't bad at all.

The 2012 class is clearly the benchmark for great Stanford recruiting classes, and that group was indeed phenomenal, with 6 players (Peat, Murphy, Garnett, Carter, Sanders, and Noor Davis) in the top-150.  But I think what really made that class was the number of players who were 4 stars and high 3 stars just below those top players.  right now, some players who fit in that category It remains to be seen how many of that category of player we get (or if we even get the ones projected to go to us now)


One more note: what do the following players from the class of 2011 all have in common: Kelsey Young, Jordan Richards, Kevin Hogan, Ty Montgomery, Devon Cajuste, Remound Wright, and Kevin Anderson all have in common? They all fell outside of the ESPN 300 rankings, and all of them are projected to play a significant role (or at least have a realistic chance to play such a role, in the case of players like Cajust Wright, and Anderson).  So the rankings really are nice, but it's most important that the coaches evaluate and land players that can help the team. 

[washingtonismoney]

Garrett Dickerson cuts list to three: https://twitter.com/Senor_Ocho/status/34...9897518080

That's Stanford, Michigan, Northwestern. Hard to tell whether it's in order or not, but still quite nice.

[washingtonismoney]

Garrett Dickerson cuts list to three: https://twitter.com/Senor_Ocho/status/34...9897518080

That's Stanford, Michigan, Northwestern. Hard to tell whether it's in order or not, but still quite nice.

[FarmBoy]

Hard to tell whether it's in order or not, but still quite nice.

IDK, the use of "1" next to Stanford, "2" for Michigan and "3" for Northwestern seems to be a pretty clear signal of order. If he wanted to make it clear they were all equal, he could have left that out and just written the schools separated by commas. In the absence of other info, I'd assume we're in the lead, for what that's worth at this stage.

I like the optimism from socalstanfan. I guess the way I look at it, If you assume that 80% of the top 150 players are going to "top 25 programs", then you'd expect 4-5 per school. You'd further expect that top top 10 programs would get even more rich. Clearly, for Stanford to get 5+ top 150 players, it needs to bat better than 50% on the 10 or so players who could actually pass admissions from that group, so maybe that's not a reasonable expectation year-in-year-out (10 players is my gut estimate of how many could pass admissions, not based on real data.) 8-10 of the top 300 players would seem to be a great haul.

So far, the Stanford staff have clearly done a great job of evaluating talent, so far be it for me to judge them poorly. I'm just curious what other people think about the 2014 class potential.

[FarmBoy]

Hard to tell whether it's in order or not, but still quite nice.

IDK, the use of "1" next to Stanford, "2" for Michigan and "3" for Northwestern seems to be a pretty clear signal of order. If he wanted to make it clear they were all equal, he could have left that out and just written the schools separated by commas. In the absence of other info, I'd assume we're in the lead, for what that's worth at this stage.

I like the optimism from socalstanfan. I guess the way I look at it, If you assume that 80% of the top 150 players are going to "top 25 programs", then you'd expect 4-5 per school. You'd further expect that top top 10 programs would get even more rich. Clearly, for Stanford to get 5+ top 150 players, it needs to bat better than 50% on the 10 or so players who could actually pass admissions from that group, so maybe that's not a reasonable expectation year-in-year-out (10 players is my gut estimate of how many could pass admissions, not based on real data.) 8-10 of the top 300 players would seem to be a great haul.

So far, the Stanford staff have clearly done a great job of evaluating talent, so far be it for me to judge them poorly. I'm just curious what other people think about the 2014 class potential.

[washingtonismoney]

So far, the Stanford staff have clearly done a great job of evaluating talent, so far be it for me to judge them poorly. I'm just curious what other people think about the 2014 class potential.

My assessment at the moment is that the class is going fairly well overall, but that there's a worryingly low margin for error at many positions, and a large portion of the upside has been lopped off the DB position.

OTOH, we have a shot at (arguably) the top QB, the top OG, the top TE and the top WR in the class. So we'll see. It may not be going gangbusters, but it's not all gone to pot. I do wonder whether the staff is maximizing recruiting returns, though.

[washingtonismoney]

So far, the Stanford staff have clearly done a great job of evaluating talent, so far be it for me to judge them poorly. I'm just curious what other people think about the 2014 class potential.

My assessment at the moment is that the class is going fairly well overall, but that there's a worryingly low margin for error at many positions, and a large portion of the upside has been lopped off the DB position.

OTOH, we have a shot at (arguably) the top QB, the top OG, the top TE and the top WR in the class. So we'll see. It may not be going gangbusters, but it's not all gone to pot. I do wonder whether the staff is maximizing recruiting returns, though.

[yvonne]

wonder how people would feel about a football team name Jihadists.

[yvonne]

wonder how people would feel about a football team name Jihadists.

[Redrum]

When he committed we had this discussion but my takeaways from watching his videos:

1.  Usually, doesn't go down with one hit or an arm tackle
2.  Nice receiving skills.  Has good hands and a very fluid transition from the catch to the run after the catch.
3. Likes contact.

[Redrum]

When he committed we had this discussion but my takeaways from watching his videos:

1.  Usually, doesn't go down with one hit or an arm tackle
2.  Nice receiving skills.  Has good hands and a very fluid transition from the catch to the run after the catch.
3. Likes contact.

[CowboyIndian]

wonder how people would feel about a football team name Jihadists.

The Coachella Valley (CA) High School Arabs are knocking on that door:

[CowboyIndian]

wonder how people would feel about a football team name Jihadists.

The Coachella Valley (CA) High School Arabs are knocking on that door: