04-26-2023, 05:19 PM
Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread
How rare is an SF Giants two strike, two out, come-from-behind walk-off HR in the 9th inning?
How about four times since 1958?
Garry Maddox 6/3/73
Robby Thompson 8/22/93
Pablo Sandoval 5/12/09
Blake Sabol 4/25/23
Source: Grant Brisbee, The Athletic
How about four times since 1958?
Garry Maddox 6/3/73
Robby Thompson 8/22/93
Pablo Sandoval 5/12/09
Blake Sabol 4/25/23
Source: Grant Brisbee, The Athletic
How rare is an SF Giants two strike, two out, come-from-behind walk-off HR in the 9th inning?
How about four times since 1958?
Garry Maddox 6/3/73
Robby Thompson 8/22/93
Pablo Sandoval 5/12/09
Blake Sabol 4/25/23
Source: Grant Brisbee, The Athletic
How about four times since 1958?
Garry Maddox 6/3/73
Robby Thompson 8/22/93
Pablo Sandoval 5/12/09
Blake Sabol 4/25/23
Source: Grant Brisbee, The Athletic
04-26-2023, 10:05 PM
(04-26-2023, 05:41 PM)Giants Wrote: How rare is an SF Giants two strike, two out, come-from-behind walk-off HR in the 9th inning?
How about four times since 1958?
Garry Maddox 6/3/73
Robby Thompson 8/22/93
Pablo Sandoval 5/12/09
Blake Sabol 4/25/23
Source: Grant Brisbee, The Athletic
It could have happened on 10/14/21, but we'll never know.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(04-26-2023, 05:41 PM)Giants Wrote: How rare is an SF Giants two strike, two out, come-from-behind walk-off HR in the 9th inning?
How about four times since 1958?
Garry Maddox 6/3/73
Robby Thompson 8/22/93
Pablo Sandoval 5/12/09
Blake Sabol 4/25/23
Source: Grant Brisbee, The Athletic
It could have happened on 10/14/21, but we'll never know.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(04-25-2023, 09:19 PM)Chupacabra Wrote: I'll die on the hill that the Wheeler trade was not a bad trade. Wheeler was only "pretty good" with the mets and never got a Cy Young vote until after his years of team control were over. Carlos Beltran went on an absolute tear after the trade and in his time with the Giants had a higher OPS than any Buster Posey season besides his MVP year. The crime was not offering Beltran a contract after the season, not the trade itself.
The worse trade was Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen. They literally traded the guy they needed for an average (formerly great) player.
(04-25-2023, 07:02 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: "On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
Wheeler for Beltran was defensible. Giants had great pitching in ‘11. After Posey got hurt, they couldn’t hit a lick. Beltran did hit well. Unfortunately he also got hurt and missed a significant chunk of time.
I think Giants made an effort to sign him.
Thing is,with Posey that team might have been in playoffs without trading for Beltran. So, Cousins not only darn near ended (and I believe shortened) Posey’s career. He also may have indirectly caused the Wheeler deal…..
There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
(04-26-2023, 01:47 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:24 PM)Mick Wrote: I'd be curious to know what impact SF's low draft order had on their draft outcomes. SF has been mostly successful to very successful the past 15 years. I imagine that SFG has selected very far back in the draft during that time.
The Dodgers haven't drafted higher than 15th since 2006, yet they have consistently been ranked as the best (or one of the best) farm systems in MLB. Meanwhile in that same time frame the Giants have had six top-ten picks.
Yes, 14 and 15 years ago the Giants drafted Zach Wheeler and Buster Posey. But if you only go back 13 years (instead of the convenient 15) it's far from "mostly successful" and definitely not "very successful". Adam Duvall, Joe Panik, Matt Duffy, Tyler Rogers, Logan Webb and Bryan Reynolds are the only draftees with over 5 career bWAR so far.
(04-24-2023, 06:34 PM)Giants Wrote:(04-24-2023, 05:14 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I had a lot of hope Farhan's regime would turn around the farm system and make it one of the best in MLB. Hasn't happened. Time to clean house and prioritize the farm system in a way the Giants never have and that their CEO says he wants to see.
It is too soon to fully assess Zaidi’s drafts. His first draft (19) doesn’t look too good. However, his 20 could be the best in MLB that year. And the 21 and 22 groups are too new to rate (I really like Wisenhunt).
The problem right now is the Bobby Evans drafts were well below average and those are the years that should have produced young major league talent by this time.
Strongly agree, too early to draw conclusions. The brutal period right before Zaidi was appointed is what has hurt the franchise. The Giants are almost never going to draft in the top-5, so missing when they had the #2 overall pick hurts a lot, and Bart was not drafted by the current regime, even though some people are under that impression.
True on Bart. But I think it’s it’s also 20-20 hindsight. He wasn’t a AYFKM pick.
(04-25-2023, 09:19 PM)Chupacabra Wrote: I'll die on the hill that the Wheeler trade was not a bad trade. Wheeler was only "pretty good" with the mets and never got a Cy Young vote until after his years of team control were over. Carlos Beltran went on an absolute tear after the trade and in his time with the Giants had a higher OPS than any Buster Posey season besides his MVP year. The crime was not offering Beltran a contract after the season, not the trade itself.
The worse trade was Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen. They literally traded the guy they needed for an average (formerly great) player.
(04-25-2023, 07:02 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: "On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
Wheeler for Beltran was defensible. Giants had great pitching in ‘11. After Posey got hurt, they couldn’t hit a lick. Beltran did hit well. Unfortunately he also got hurt and missed a significant chunk of time.
I think Giants made an effort to sign him.
Thing is,with Posey that team might have been in playoffs without trading for Beltran. So, Cousins not only darn near ended (and I believe shortened) Posey’s career. He also may have indirectly caused the Wheeler deal…..
There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
(04-26-2023, 01:47 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:24 PM)Mick Wrote: I'd be curious to know what impact SF's low draft order had on their draft outcomes. SF has been mostly successful to very successful the past 15 years. I imagine that SFG has selected very far back in the draft during that time.
The Dodgers haven't drafted higher than 15th since 2006, yet they have consistently been ranked as the best (or one of the best) farm systems in MLB. Meanwhile in that same time frame the Giants have had six top-ten picks.
Yes, 14 and 15 years ago the Giants drafted Zach Wheeler and Buster Posey. But if you only go back 13 years (instead of the convenient 15) it's far from "mostly successful" and definitely not "very successful". Adam Duvall, Joe Panik, Matt Duffy, Tyler Rogers, Logan Webb and Bryan Reynolds are the only draftees with over 5 career bWAR so far.
(04-24-2023, 06:34 PM)Giants Wrote:(04-24-2023, 05:14 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I had a lot of hope Farhan's regime would turn around the farm system and make it one of the best in MLB. Hasn't happened. Time to clean house and prioritize the farm system in a way the Giants never have and that their CEO says he wants to see.
It is too soon to fully assess Zaidi’s drafts. His first draft (19) doesn’t look too good. However, his 20 could be the best in MLB that year. And the 21 and 22 groups are too new to rate (I really like Wisenhunt).
The problem right now is the Bobby Evans drafts were well below average and those are the years that should have produced young major league talent by this time.
Strongly agree, too early to draw conclusions. The brutal period right before Zaidi was appointed is what has hurt the franchise. The Giants are almost never going to draft in the top-5, so missing when they had the #2 overall pick hurts a lot, and Bart was not drafted by the current regime, even though some people are under that impression.
True on Bart. But I think it’s it’s also 20-20 hindsight. He wasn’t a AYFKM pick.
04-27-2023, 12:08 AM
Bailey promoted to AAA. One step closer to The Show.
All of a sudden, SF has a decent group of catchers. Bart and Sabol with Bailey in the wings.
All of a sudden, SF has a decent group of catchers. Bart and Sabol with Bailey in the wings.
(04-26-2023, 10:25 PM)lex24 Wrote: There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
Reynolds had been a strong performer at every level, and had been progressing smoothly. BA's above .300, OPS above .850 at A, A+. He had hit .312/.364/.462/.826 in San Jose before the trade. He became like Robby Thompson, one of those guys who did about as well at every level.
(04-27-2023, 12:08 AM)Giants Wrote: Bailey promoted to AAA. One step closer to The Show.
All of a sudden, SF has a decent group of catchers. Bart and Sabol with Bailey in the wings.
it's really too bad Bart is injured. He was really coming into his own. .301/.378/.364/.742. Statistically, one of SFG's top defenders, which is to say he's about league average. Bart's had just on error -- Sabol had his fifth last night, I think all on catcher's interference.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(04-26-2023, 10:25 PM)lex24 Wrote: There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
Reynolds had been a strong performer at every level, and had been progressing smoothly. BA's above .300, OPS above .850 at A, A+. He had hit .312/.364/.462/.826 in San Jose before the trade. He became like Robby Thompson, one of those guys who did about as well at every level.
(04-27-2023, 12:08 AM)Giants Wrote: Bailey promoted to AAA. One step closer to The Show.
All of a sudden, SF has a decent group of catchers. Bart and Sabol with Bailey in the wings.
it's really too bad Bart is injured. He was really coming into his own. .301/.378/.364/.742. Statistically, one of SFG's top defenders, which is to say he's about league average. Bart's had just on error -- Sabol had his fifth last night, I think all on catcher's interference.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
04-27-2023, 07:45 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2023, 08:11 AM by OutsiderFan.)
Before y'all laud me for the success of my reverse woofing prowess - the Giants have won 5 straight since I suggested they are the worst team relative to their market size and wealth in major league sports - the Cardinals suck too and the Mets dropped two in a row to the Nationals at home after losing last two in S.F., so...
I'm just happy the Dodgers are only 13-12, tbh.
Now look at this...
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll (Mets, Yankees, Padres) combined: $870M ($290M/team)
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll combined record: 41-33 for .554 win % on pace for avg. of 90-72
Top 3 teams in MLB record (Rays, Orioles, Pirates) combined: 53-21 for .716 win % on pace for avg. of 116-46
Top 3 teams by record in MLB payroll combined: $214M* ($71.3M/team)
* The Angels' payroll
The big question is can lower payroll teams dominating the regular season's first month keep it up and ultimately win in the post season? Or is the star power of the big spenders ultimately gonna prevail? Injuries seem to be a bigger factor for the big spenders given that means older players who get hurt more, so the stars might not even be available for the big spenders in the post season.
In any case, if I were Greg Johnson, I'd be doing all I could to recruit those responsible for scouting and development from the Rays, Orioles, Pirates, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Braves!
I'm just happy the Dodgers are only 13-12, tbh.
Now look at this...
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll (Mets, Yankees, Padres) combined: $870M ($290M/team)
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll combined record: 41-33 for .554 win % on pace for avg. of 90-72
Top 3 teams in MLB record (Rays, Orioles, Pirates) combined: 53-21 for .716 win % on pace for avg. of 116-46
Top 3 teams by record in MLB payroll combined: $214M* ($71.3M/team)
* The Angels' payroll
The big question is can lower payroll teams dominating the regular season's first month keep it up and ultimately win in the post season? Or is the star power of the big spenders ultimately gonna prevail? Injuries seem to be a bigger factor for the big spenders given that means older players who get hurt more, so the stars might not even be available for the big spenders in the post season.
In any case, if I were Greg Johnson, I'd be doing all I could to recruit those responsible for scouting and development from the Rays, Orioles, Pirates, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Braves!
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2023, 08:11 AM by OutsiderFan.)
Before y'all laud me for the success of my reverse woofing prowess - the Giants have won 5 straight since I suggested they are the worst team relative to their market size and wealth in major league sports - the Cardinals suck too and the Mets dropped two in a row to the Nationals at home after losing last two in S.F., so...
I'm just happy the Dodgers are only 13-12, tbh.
Now look at this...
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll (Mets, Yankees, Padres) combined: $870M ($290M/team)
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll combined record: 41-33 for .554 win % on pace for avg. of 90-72
Top 3 teams in MLB record (Rays, Orioles, Pirates) combined: 53-21 for .716 win % on pace for avg. of 116-46
Top 3 teams by record in MLB payroll combined: $214M* ($71.3M/team)
* The Angels' payroll
The big question is can lower payroll teams dominating the regular season's first month keep it up and ultimately win in the post season? Or is the star power of the big spenders ultimately gonna prevail? Injuries seem to be a bigger factor for the big spenders given that means older players who get hurt more, so the stars might not even be available for the big spenders in the post season.
In any case, if I were Greg Johnson, I'd be doing all I could to recruit those responsible for scouting and development from the Rays, Orioles, Pirates, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Braves!
I'm just happy the Dodgers are only 13-12, tbh.
Now look at this...
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll (Mets, Yankees, Padres) combined: $870M ($290M/team)
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll combined record: 41-33 for .554 win % on pace for avg. of 90-72
Top 3 teams in MLB record (Rays, Orioles, Pirates) combined: 53-21 for .716 win % on pace for avg. of 116-46
Top 3 teams by record in MLB payroll combined: $214M* ($71.3M/team)
* The Angels' payroll
The big question is can lower payroll teams dominating the regular season's first month keep it up and ultimately win in the post season? Or is the star power of the big spenders ultimately gonna prevail? Injuries seem to be a bigger factor for the big spenders given that means older players who get hurt more, so the stars might not even be available for the big spenders in the post season.
In any case, if I were Greg Johnson, I'd be doing all I could to recruit those responsible for scouting and development from the Rays, Orioles, Pirates, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Braves!
(04-27-2023, 07:45 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Before y'all laud me for the success of my reverse woofing prowess - the Giants have won 5 straight since I suggested they are the worst team relative to their market size and wealth in major league sports - the Cardinals suck too and the Mets dropped two in a row to the Nationals at home after losing last two in S.F., so...
I'm just happy the Dodgers are only 13-12, tbh.
Now look at this...
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll (Mets, Yankees, Padres) combined: $870M ($290M/team)
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll combined record: 41-33 for .554 win % on pace for avg. of 90-72
Top 3 teams in MLB record (Rays, Orioles, Pirates) combined: 53-21 for .716 win % on pace for avg. of 116-46
Top 3 teams by record in MLB payroll combined: $214M* ($71.3M)
* The Angels' payroll
The big question is can lower payroll teams dominating the regular season's first month keep it up and ultimately win in the post season? Or is the star power of the big spenders ultimately gonna prevail? Injuries seem to be a bigger factor for the big spenders given that means older players who get hurt more, so the stars might not even be available for the big spenders in the post season.
In any case, if I were Greg Johnson, I'd be doing all I could to recruit those responsible for scouting and development from the Rays, Orioles, Pirates, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Braves!
25 games and a lot hovering around .500. Exceptions at top are Braves, Brewers and surprising Pirates. I think Braves may be the most complete team in NL. Brewers should stay strong due to their pitching. I expect Pirates to drop.
Rockies Nats and surprisingly the Cardinals (9-16) are at the bottom. Cards are always good. So, maybe just a slow start. They have looked bad in Giants series. Helps that Arenado isn’t hitting. Yet.
NL West - biggest disappointment to this point has to be Padres. And the biggest question there - Juan Soto. He has not HIT well since coming to SD. He leads league in walks. So, OBP is there. But Slg pct way down. And it has been for over a year. There are some rumblings that he’s become too selective. Padres didn’t make that trade to get Billy North ( yes, I’m exaggerating). Soto has always been known for his “plate discipline “. Sometimes I wonder if that can taken too far.
(04-27-2023, 07:45 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Before y'all laud me for the success of my reverse woofing prowess - the Giants have won 5 straight since I suggested they are the worst team relative to their market size and wealth in major league sports - the Cardinals suck too and the Mets dropped two in a row to the Nationals at home after losing last two in S.F., so...
I'm just happy the Dodgers are only 13-12, tbh.
Now look at this...
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll (Mets, Yankees, Padres) combined: $870M ($290M/team)
Top 3 teams in MLB payroll combined record: 41-33 for .554 win % on pace for avg. of 90-72
Top 3 teams in MLB record (Rays, Orioles, Pirates) combined: 53-21 for .716 win % on pace for avg. of 116-46
Top 3 teams by record in MLB payroll combined: $214M* ($71.3M)
* The Angels' payroll
The big question is can lower payroll teams dominating the regular season's first month keep it up and ultimately win in the post season? Or is the star power of the big spenders ultimately gonna prevail? Injuries seem to be a bigger factor for the big spenders given that means older players who get hurt more, so the stars might not even be available for the big spenders in the post season.
In any case, if I were Greg Johnson, I'd be doing all I could to recruit those responsible for scouting and development from the Rays, Orioles, Pirates, Blue Jays, Dodgers, and Braves!
25 games and a lot hovering around .500. Exceptions at top are Braves, Brewers and surprising Pirates. I think Braves may be the most complete team in NL. Brewers should stay strong due to their pitching. I expect Pirates to drop.
Rockies Nats and surprisingly the Cardinals (9-16) are at the bottom. Cards are always good. So, maybe just a slow start. They have looked bad in Giants series. Helps that Arenado isn’t hitting. Yet.
NL West - biggest disappointment to this point has to be Padres. And the biggest question there - Juan Soto. He has not HIT well since coming to SD. He leads league in walks. So, OBP is there. But Slg pct way down. And it has been for over a year. There are some rumblings that he’s become too selective. Padres didn’t make that trade to get Billy North ( yes, I’m exaggerating). Soto has always been known for his “plate discipline “. Sometimes I wonder if that can taken too far.
04-27-2023, 09:53 AM
(04-27-2023, 06:59 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-26-2023, 10:25 PM)lex24 Wrote: There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
Reynolds had been a strong performer at every level, and had been progressing smoothly. BA's above .300, OPS above .850 at A, A+. He had hit .312/.364/.462/.826 in San Jose before the trade. He became like Robby Thompson, one of those guys who did about as well at every level.
I put little weight on minor league batting averages or OPS, but agree that Reynolds was highly regarded for his all around skill set. The consensus was that he was the Giants third or fourth best prospect at the time of the trade (and second best position player prospect), and he had played in the Futures Game the year before. It was a high price to pay (McCutchen only had one year left on his contract and the Giants included Kyle Crick to boot); that regime didn't value prospects to the extent to which this one does.
(04-27-2023, 06:59 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-26-2023, 10:25 PM)lex24 Wrote: There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
Reynolds had been a strong performer at every level, and had been progressing smoothly. BA's above .300, OPS above .850 at A, A+. He had hit .312/.364/.462/.826 in San Jose before the trade. He became like Robby Thompson, one of those guys who did about as well at every level.
I put little weight on minor league batting averages or OPS, but agree that Reynolds was highly regarded for his all around skill set. The consensus was that he was the Giants third or fourth best prospect at the time of the trade (and second best position player prospect), and he had played in the Futures Game the year before. It was a high price to pay (McCutchen only had one year left on his contract and the Giants included Kyle Crick to boot); that regime didn't value prospects to the extent to which this one does.
04-27-2023, 03:59 PM
Anybody else think Crawford may have a bum arm? Threw two lollipops to first today, both off the bag, one leading to three runs for the Redbirds?
Anybody else think Crawford may have a bum arm? Threw two lollipops to first today, both off the bag, one leading to three runs for the Redbirds?
04-28-2023, 11:41 AM
(04-27-2023, 09:53 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(04-27-2023, 06:59 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-26-2023, 10:25 PM)lex24 Wrote: There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
Reynolds had been a strong performer at every level, and had been progressing smoothly. BA's above .300, OPS above .850 at A, A+. He had hit .312/.364/.462/.826 in San Jose before the trade. He became like Robby Thompson, one of those guys who did about as well at every level.
I put little weight on minor league batting averages or OPS, but agree that Reynolds was highly regarded for his all around skill set. The consensus was that he was the Giants third or fourth best prospect at the time of the trade (and second best position player prospect), and he had played in the Futures Game the year before. It was a high price to pay (McCutchen only had one year left on his contract and the Giants included Kyle Crick to boot); that regime didn't value prospects to the extent to which this one does.
Third or fourth on a prospect list that was not highly regarded…..
It was a bad trade. But to me, mostly because of the miscalculation of the strength of the roster.
At least when Wheeler (a more highly regarded prospect) was traded for Beltran, that team was a playoff caliber team. That is why to me, that trade was “defensible”; while the Reynolds trade was not.
(04-27-2023, 09:53 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(04-27-2023, 06:59 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-26-2023, 10:25 PM)lex24 Wrote: There is a little bit of 20-20 hindsight on Reynolds. He was not that highly regarded at time of trade. Still, Sabean miscalculated on the strength of that team in the off season. Thought Cutch could be the difference. Instead, they were just bad.
Reynolds had been a strong performer at every level, and had been progressing smoothly. BA's above .300, OPS above .850 at A, A+. He had hit .312/.364/.462/.826 in San Jose before the trade. He became like Robby Thompson, one of those guys who did about as well at every level.
I put little weight on minor league batting averages or OPS, but agree that Reynolds was highly regarded for his all around skill set. The consensus was that he was the Giants third or fourth best prospect at the time of the trade (and second best position player prospect), and he had played in the Futures Game the year before. It was a high price to pay (McCutchen only had one year left on his contract and the Giants included Kyle Crick to boot); that regime didn't value prospects to the extent to which this one does.
Third or fourth on a prospect list that was not highly regarded…..
It was a bad trade. But to me, mostly because of the miscalculation of the strength of the roster.
At least when Wheeler (a more highly regarded prospect) was traded for Beltran, that team was a playoff caliber team. That is why to me, that trade was “defensible”; while the Reynolds trade was not.
To date, I don’t think there is a starting pitcher in the Giants minor league system that has gone 5 innings. I know it’s early and arms need to build up. I also know these are young arms. And, of course, they are on pitch counts.
I looked at Beck’s game logs last year. He often got through 5 and pitched at least into the 6th a fair amount. Harrison in Richmond got through 5 on more than a few occasions. He hasn’t got past 3 in any start this year.
So, is the emphasis on strikeouts so strong that essentially the philosophy is go pedal to the metal from pitch one. We don’t care how long you go?
Is there any emphasis being placed on working towards getting hitters out earlier in the count? Or is it just try to strike everyone out?
I’m hoping the game doesn’t reach the point where true starting pitching nears extinction. It’s give me a good 3 or 4 and then mix and match with 5 relievers every night. I fear we are. Aesthetically, to me that stinks.
Alex Cobb just pitched a CG. Why? Cause he got a lot of early outs as hitter after hitter pounded balls into the ground. Webb gets deep most games - gets some Ks. But also a lot of early outs. Same with AD.
Are these types going to become relics?
I heard Cobb interviewed at Fanfest. He was asked if he’d rather be at 93 with more movement or 96. He said 96. Not cause it makes him better. But because “all they care about is strikeouts.” Which translates to money.
To me, it’s the biggest “problem “ in baseball. And I’m not sure what can be done about it. There is some talk about a rule in which if the starting pitcher doesn’t go five innings, you lose the DH. I believe they’re trying that in at least one of the minor leagues this year. Personally, I kind of like the idea.
I looked at Beck’s game logs last year. He often got through 5 and pitched at least into the 6th a fair amount. Harrison in Richmond got through 5 on more than a few occasions. He hasn’t got past 3 in any start this year.
So, is the emphasis on strikeouts so strong that essentially the philosophy is go pedal to the metal from pitch one. We don’t care how long you go?
Is there any emphasis being placed on working towards getting hitters out earlier in the count? Or is it just try to strike everyone out?
I’m hoping the game doesn’t reach the point where true starting pitching nears extinction. It’s give me a good 3 or 4 and then mix and match with 5 relievers every night. I fear we are. Aesthetically, to me that stinks.
Alex Cobb just pitched a CG. Why? Cause he got a lot of early outs as hitter after hitter pounded balls into the ground. Webb gets deep most games - gets some Ks. But also a lot of early outs. Same with AD.
Are these types going to become relics?
I heard Cobb interviewed at Fanfest. He was asked if he’d rather be at 93 with more movement or 96. He said 96. Not cause it makes him better. But because “all they care about is strikeouts.” Which translates to money.
To me, it’s the biggest “problem “ in baseball. And I’m not sure what can be done about it. There is some talk about a rule in which if the starting pitcher doesn’t go five innings, you lose the DH. I believe they’re trying that in at least one of the minor leagues this year. Personally, I kind of like the idea.
To date, I don’t think there is a starting pitcher in the Giants minor league system that has gone 5 innings. I know it’s early and arms need to build up. I also know these are young arms. And, of course, they are on pitch counts.
I looked at Beck’s game logs last year. He often got through 5 and pitched at least into the 6th a fair amount. Harrison in Richmond got through 5 on more than a few occasions. He hasn’t got past 3 in any start this year.
So, is the emphasis on strikeouts so strong that essentially the philosophy is go pedal to the metal from pitch one. We don’t care how long you go?
Is there any emphasis being placed on working towards getting hitters out earlier in the count? Or is it just try to strike everyone out?
I’m hoping the game doesn’t reach the point where true starting pitching nears extinction. It’s give me a good 3 or 4 and then mix and match with 5 relievers every night. I fear we are. Aesthetically, to me that stinks.
Alex Cobb just pitched a CG. Why? Cause he got a lot of early outs as hitter after hitter pounded balls into the ground. Webb gets deep most games - gets some Ks. But also a lot of early outs. Same with AD.
Are these types going to become relics?
I heard Cobb interviewed at Fanfest. He was asked if he’d rather be at 93 with more movement or 96. He said 96. Not cause it makes him better. But because “all they care about is strikeouts.” Which translates to money.
To me, it’s the biggest “problem “ in baseball. And I’m not sure what can be done about it. There is some talk about a rule in which if the starting pitcher doesn’t go five innings, you lose the DH. I believe they’re trying that in at least one of the minor leagues this year. Personally, I kind of like the idea.
I looked at Beck’s game logs last year. He often got through 5 and pitched at least into the 6th a fair amount. Harrison in Richmond got through 5 on more than a few occasions. He hasn’t got past 3 in any start this year.
So, is the emphasis on strikeouts so strong that essentially the philosophy is go pedal to the metal from pitch one. We don’t care how long you go?
Is there any emphasis being placed on working towards getting hitters out earlier in the count? Or is it just try to strike everyone out?
I’m hoping the game doesn’t reach the point where true starting pitching nears extinction. It’s give me a good 3 or 4 and then mix and match with 5 relievers every night. I fear we are. Aesthetically, to me that stinks.
Alex Cobb just pitched a CG. Why? Cause he got a lot of early outs as hitter after hitter pounded balls into the ground. Webb gets deep most games - gets some Ks. But also a lot of early outs. Same with AD.
Are these types going to become relics?
I heard Cobb interviewed at Fanfest. He was asked if he’d rather be at 93 with more movement or 96. He said 96. Not cause it makes him better. But because “all they care about is strikeouts.” Which translates to money.
To me, it’s the biggest “problem “ in baseball. And I’m not sure what can be done about it. There is some talk about a rule in which if the starting pitcher doesn’t go five innings, you lose the DH. I believe they’re trying that in at least one of the minor leagues this year. Personally, I kind of like the idea.
04-28-2023, 05:17 PM
4 2/3 innings is the longest start by a Giant minor leaguer this year (Ragsdale/San Jose). I suspect we will see them stretch out as the season progresses.
04-29-2023, 06:52 AM
Is limiting innings of starting pitchers a thing across MiLB, or unique to the Giants?
In other farm happenings...
Vaun Brown seems to be on a rehab assignment and should be joining Richmond soon.
Still have seen nothing about Marco Luciano returning from back stress fracture to play for the Squirrels.
The Giants expected him to be playing again by now, while claiming all is well and there is no long-term concern. Excuse me for being skeptical.
In other farm happenings...
Vaun Brown seems to be on a rehab assignment and should be joining Richmond soon.
Still have seen nothing about Marco Luciano returning from back stress fracture to play for the Squirrels.
The Giants expected him to be playing again by now, while claiming all is well and there is no long-term concern. Excuse me for being skeptical.
Is limiting innings of starting pitchers a thing across MiLB, or unique to the Giants?
In other farm happenings...
Vaun Brown seems to be on a rehab assignment and should be joining Richmond soon.
Still have seen nothing about Marco Luciano returning from back stress fracture to play for the Squirrels.
The Giants expected him to be playing again by now, while claiming all is well and there is no long-term concern. Excuse me for being skeptical.
In other farm happenings...
Vaun Brown seems to be on a rehab assignment and should be joining Richmond soon.
Still have seen nothing about Marco Luciano returning from back stress fracture to play for the Squirrels.
The Giants expected him to be playing again by now, while claiming all is well and there is no long-term concern. Excuse me for being skeptical.
04-29-2023, 04:58 PM
(04-29-2023, 06:52 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Is limiting innings of starting pitchers a thing across MiLB, or unique to the Giants?
In other farm happenings...
Vaun Brown seems to be on a rehab assignment and should be joining Richmond soon.
Still have seen nothing about Marco Luciano returning from back stress fracture to play for the Squirrels.
The Giants expected him to be playing again by now, while claiming all is well and there is no long-term concern. Excuse me for being skeptical.
Definitely reason to be concerned about Luciano.
(04-29-2023, 06:52 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Is limiting innings of starting pitchers a thing across MiLB, or unique to the Giants?
In other farm happenings...
Vaun Brown seems to be on a rehab assignment and should be joining Richmond soon.
Still have seen nothing about Marco Luciano returning from back stress fracture to play for the Squirrels.
The Giants expected him to be playing again by now, while claiming all is well and there is no long-term concern. Excuse me for being skeptical.
Definitely reason to be concerned about Luciano.
Yaz might miss a month or two. Can’t help but think that hard turf field contributed. That was not a major league caliber field. Giants might pay the price.
Yaz was off to a great start. Now Giants will have to decide if they mostly go with Slater in CF. Or platoon him with Wisely or Stephenson or when healthy Johnson. Id go with Slater most days regardless of whether it’s vs lefty or righty. None of the three I mentioned are a major league level bat.
April was awful. Not just because of 11-16. Injuries, blown leads, led league in strikeouts by wide margin (on pace to obliterate record). Just a bad month.
Yaz was off to a great start. Now Giants will have to decide if they mostly go with Slater in CF. Or platoon him with Wisely or Stephenson or when healthy Johnson. Id go with Slater most days regardless of whether it’s vs lefty or righty. None of the three I mentioned are a major league level bat.
April was awful. Not just because of 11-16. Injuries, blown leads, led league in strikeouts by wide margin (on pace to obliterate record). Just a bad month.
Yaz might miss a month or two. Can’t help but think that hard turf field contributed. That was not a major league caliber field. Giants might pay the price.
Yaz was off to a great start. Now Giants will have to decide if they mostly go with Slater in CF. Or platoon him with Wisely or Stephenson or when healthy Johnson. Id go with Slater most days regardless of whether it’s vs lefty or righty. None of the three I mentioned are a major league level bat.
April was awful. Not just because of 11-16. Injuries, blown leads, led league in strikeouts by wide margin (on pace to obliterate record). Just a bad month.
Yaz was off to a great start. Now Giants will have to decide if they mostly go with Slater in CF. Or platoon him with Wisely or Stephenson or when healthy Johnson. Id go with Slater most days regardless of whether it’s vs lefty or righty. None of the three I mentioned are a major league level bat.
April was awful. Not just because of 11-16. Injuries, blown leads, led league in strikeouts by wide margin (on pace to obliterate record). Just a bad month.
05-04-2023, 03:14 AM
Marco Luciano made his Richmond debut last night…and went 0-4 with 4 Ks. He did also draw one BB, and of course also committed an error that lost the game for the Squirrels.
Looks like Patrick Bailey was promoted to Sacramento.
Looks like Patrick Bailey was promoted to Sacramento.
Marco Luciano made his Richmond debut last night…and went 0-4 with 4 Ks. He did also draw one BB, and of course also committed an error that lost the game for the Squirrels.
Looks like Patrick Bailey was promoted to Sacramento.
Looks like Patrick Bailey was promoted to Sacramento.
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