[BobK]

Great summary lex Thanks. Can’t add much aT this point except I don’t pay any attention, sorry Mick, to WAR.

[BobK]

Great summary lex Thanks. Can’t add much aT this point except I don’t pay any attention, sorry Mick, to WAR.

[Phogge]

Hey Lex, 78 for sure. More like 86. LOL, great oysters.

[Phogge]

Hey Lex, 78 for sure. More like 86. LOL, great oysters.

[Giants]

In looking at the Giants' free agent acquisitions, you have the following individuals, with their best recent WAR over the past few years:


Conforto, 3.9
Manaea, 3.1
Haniger, 3.1
Stripling, 2.7
Rogers, 0.4

Let's also take into account that the Giants keep Pederson's 2.8 offensive WAR, but given that he'll be playing DH, they lose his -2.1 WAR.

They lose Rodon's 5.4 WAR, but get back DeSclefani's 4.2 WAR.

Net/net effect, absolute best case, that's 14.1 WAR added. Let's say not everything goes according to plan, and the Giants get half that, seven extra WAR. Added to their 81 wins this year, that puts them at 88 wins in 2023...again, if they get half the WAR they want to see.  The bottom seed in the playoffs had 87 wins last year.  83 wins would have done it in 2021, 86 would have done it in 2019.

Then, factor into account the new rules (infield shifts, 20 second pitch counts, bigger bases, fewer pickoff attempts) which are likely to favor both the Giants' fielders and hitters.

WAR is an overused, overrated”stat” .

Based on...what?

What single metric do you prefer to compare players?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1642...-statistic

Relating to the Giants?  Watching 150 plus games…..  I understand WAR is a  tool.  But it’s overused in my opinion.  Here’s how I break down the Giants:

SP. Webb, Cobb, DeSclafani, Maenea, Stripling. Wood.  Webb and Cobb are a solid 1-2. From there, good depth, but essentially mostly 5’s. Maenea to me a key.  He was a bottom 5 starter last year.  They need him to rebound.  Not a high strikeout staff.  But should have good strikeout to walk ratio.  Good at keeping ball on ground. ( See below on defense) Innings will be an issue.  

Bullpen - Questionable as always. Getting to Doval a theme. Junis and Wood (who I think will be odd man out until injuries.  He should be. Wood has been bad 3 of last 4 years) nice pieces as they can go multiple innings.  Ty Rogers has always been valuable as a guy that can give you a lot of appearances and innings.  Shouldn’t be a late inning high leverage guy. Alexander a nice lefty piece.  High ground ball rate.  Back end Taylor Rogers helps.  Brebbia was good first half and then faded. Overused.  Not great getting to 9th.   Doval was lights out and should get better. Protect that arm as much as possible. 

OF - Conforto, Yaz, Slater, Haniger.  Left to right with Yaz/Slater platooning in CF.   Better than ‘22.  Probably most improved unit.  Defensively probably a little below average.  Yaz is an excellent RF.  Nowhere near as good in CF.  Slater takes a lot of bad routes abd doesn’t get great jumps. But he can run.  Certainly not the sh-t show of ‘22.  Offensively, could be quite good.  Conforto obviously a big Q coming off injuries and a year that he sat out.  Haniger could be their best hitter.

Inf. Never has “hit it to Crawford” been more true.  If he gets hurt, it’s a big problem. Estrada should be ok at second.  The corners are questionable.  At best. Flores/Davis/Wade at first.  Villar/Davis at third. That is a poor defensive infield.  And please, take away LaStellas glove. Offensively?  It’s average.  At best.  Villar - who knows. Davis looked good at times.  Wade?  Who knows. I’ve always liked Flores.  But he’s best as a utility player with about 450 PAs.

Catching. Bart.  Hopefully continues to get better. If not, catchers a problem.

Overall - pitching should be their strength. But losing Rodon hurt badly.  Defense is still not going to be very good.  Perhaps it won’t be abysmal.

Offensively - should be solid. Pederson also in that mix.  Just keep him out of the OF. 

Team speed - still slow.  

Overall - 77-85.

Quick cut to the last sentence….

81+ wins based strictly on the new schedule that has them playing LA and SD 7 fewer times each.  

A more detailed look at the roster when things firm up after the first of the year….

[Giants]

In looking at the Giants' free agent acquisitions, you have the following individuals, with their best recent WAR over the past few years:


Conforto, 3.9
Manaea, 3.1
Haniger, 3.1
Stripling, 2.7
Rogers, 0.4

Let's also take into account that the Giants keep Pederson's 2.8 offensive WAR, but given that he'll be playing DH, they lose his -2.1 WAR.

They lose Rodon's 5.4 WAR, but get back DeSclefani's 4.2 WAR.

Net/net effect, absolute best case, that's 14.1 WAR added. Let's say not everything goes according to plan, and the Giants get half that, seven extra WAR. Added to their 81 wins this year, that puts them at 88 wins in 2023...again, if they get half the WAR they want to see.  The bottom seed in the playoffs had 87 wins last year.  83 wins would have done it in 2021, 86 would have done it in 2019.

Then, factor into account the new rules (infield shifts, 20 second pitch counts, bigger bases, fewer pickoff attempts) which are likely to favor both the Giants' fielders and hitters.

WAR is an overused, overrated”stat” .

Based on...what?

What single metric do you prefer to compare players?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1642...-statistic

Relating to the Giants?  Watching 150 plus games…..  I understand WAR is a  tool.  But it’s overused in my opinion.  Here’s how I break down the Giants:

SP. Webb, Cobb, DeSclafani, Maenea, Stripling. Wood.  Webb and Cobb are a solid 1-2. From there, good depth, but essentially mostly 5’s. Maenea to me a key.  He was a bottom 5 starter last year.  They need him to rebound.  Not a high strikeout staff.  But should have good strikeout to walk ratio.  Good at keeping ball on ground. ( See below on defense) Innings will be an issue.  

Bullpen - Questionable as always. Getting to Doval a theme. Junis and Wood (who I think will be odd man out until injuries.  He should be. Wood has been bad 3 of last 4 years) nice pieces as they can go multiple innings.  Ty Rogers has always been valuable as a guy that can give you a lot of appearances and innings.  Shouldn’t be a late inning high leverage guy. Alexander a nice lefty piece.  High ground ball rate.  Back end Taylor Rogers helps.  Brebbia was good first half and then faded. Overused.  Not great getting to 9th.   Doval was lights out and should get better. Protect that arm as much as possible. 

OF - Conforto, Yaz, Slater, Haniger.  Left to right with Yaz/Slater platooning in CF.   Better than ‘22.  Probably most improved unit.  Defensively probably a little below average.  Yaz is an excellent RF.  Nowhere near as good in CF.  Slater takes a lot of bad routes abd doesn’t get great jumps. But he can run.  Certainly not the sh-t show of ‘22.  Offensively, could be quite good.  Conforto obviously a big Q coming off injuries and a year that he sat out.  Haniger could be their best hitter.

Inf. Never has “hit it to Crawford” been more true.  If he gets hurt, it’s a big problem. Estrada should be ok at second.  The corners are questionable.  At best. Flores/Davis/Wade at first.  Villar/Davis at third. That is a poor defensive infield.  And please, take away LaStellas glove. Offensively?  It’s average.  At best.  Villar - who knows. Davis looked good at times.  Wade?  Who knows. I’ve always liked Flores.  But he’s best as a utility player with about 450 PAs.

Catching. Bart.  Hopefully continues to get better. If not, catchers a problem.

Overall - pitching should be their strength. But losing Rodon hurt badly.  Defense is still not going to be very good.  Perhaps it won’t be abysmal.

Offensively - should be solid. Pederson also in that mix.  Just keep him out of the OF. 

Team speed - still slow.  

Overall - 77-85.

Quick cut to the last sentence….

81+ wins based strictly on the new schedule that has them playing LA and SD 7 fewer times each.  

A more detailed look at the roster when things firm up after the first of the year….

[lex24]

In looking at the Giants' free agent acquisitions, you have the following individuals, with their best recent WAR over the past few years:


Conforto, 3.9
Manaea, 3.1
Haniger, 3.1
Stripling, 2.7
Rogers, 0.4

Let's also take into account that the Giants keep Pederson's 2.8 offensive WAR, but given that he'll be playing DH, they lose his -2.1 WAR.

They lose Rodon's 5.4 WAR, but get back DeSclefani's 4.2 WAR.

Net/net effect, absolute best case, that's 14.1 WAR added. Let's say not everything goes according to plan, and the Giants get half that, seven extra WAR. Added to their 81 wins this year, that puts them at 88 wins in 2023...again, if they get half the WAR they want to see.  The bottom seed in the playoffs had 87 wins last year.  83 wins would have done it in 2021, 86 would have done it in 2019.

Then, factor into account the new rules (infield shifts, 20 second pitch counts, bigger bases, fewer pickoff attempts) which are likely to favor both the Giants' fielders and hitters.

WAR is an overused, overrated”stat” .

Based on...what?

What single metric do you prefer to compare players?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1642...-statistic

Relating to the Giants?  Watching 150 plus games…..  I understand WAR is a  tool.  But it’s overused in my opinion.  Here’s how I break down the Giants:

SP. Webb, Cobb, DeSclafani, Maenea, Stripling. Wood.  Webb and Cobb are a solid 1-2. From there, good depth, but essentially mostly 5’s. Maenea to me a key.  He was a bottom 5 starter last year.  They need him to rebound.  Not a high strikeout staff.  But should have good strikeout to walk ratio.  Good at keeping ball on ground. ( See below on defense) Innings will be an issue.  

Bullpen - Questionable as always. Getting to Doval a theme. Junis and Wood (who I think will be odd man out until injuries.  He should be. Wood has been bad 3 of last 4 years) nice pieces as they can go multiple innings.  Ty Rogers has always been valuable as a guy that can give you a lot of appearances and innings.  Shouldn’t be a late inning high leverage guy. Alexander a nice lefty piece.  High ground ball rate.  Back end Taylor Rogers helps.  Brebbia was good first half and then faded. Overused.  Not great getting to 9th.   Doval was lights out and should get better. Protect that arm as much as possible. 

OF - Conforto, Yaz, Slater, Haniger.  Left to right with Yaz/Slater platooning in CF.   Better than ‘22.  Probably most improved unit.  Defensively probably a little below average.  Yaz is an excellent RF.  Nowhere near as good in CF.  Slater takes a lot of bad routes abd doesn’t get great jumps. But he can run.  Certainly not the sh-t show of ‘22.  Offensively, could be quite good.  Conforto obviously a big Q coming off injuries and a year that he sat out.  Haniger could be their best hitter.

Inf. Never has “hit it to Crawford” been more true.  If he gets hurt, it’s a big problem. Estrada should be ok at second.  The corners are questionable.  At best. Flores/Davis/Wade at first.  Villar/Davis at third. That is a poor defensive infield.  And please, take away LaStellas glove. Offensively?  It’s average.  At best.  Villar - who knows. Davis looked good at times.  Wade?  Who knows. I’ve always liked Flores.  But he’s best as a utility player with about 450 PAs.

Catching. Bart.  Hopefully continues to get better. If not, catchers a problem.

Overall - pitching should be their strength. But losing Rodon hurt badly.  Defense is still not going to be very good.  Perhaps it won’t be abysmal.

Offensively - should be solid. Pederson also in that mix.  Just keep him out of the OF. 

Team speed - still slow.  

Overall - 77-85.

Quick cut to the last sentence….

81+ wins based strictly on the new schedule that has them playing LA and SD 7 fewer times each.  

A more detailed look at the roster when things firm up after the first of the year….

New schedule adds an interesting twist.  Not sure how it cuts.  But I like it. 76 gams in division is too many. Even 56 is a bit high.

[lex24]

In looking at the Giants' free agent acquisitions, you have the following individuals, with their best recent WAR over the past few years:


Conforto, 3.9
Manaea, 3.1
Haniger, 3.1
Stripling, 2.7
Rogers, 0.4

Let's also take into account that the Giants keep Pederson's 2.8 offensive WAR, but given that he'll be playing DH, they lose his -2.1 WAR.

They lose Rodon's 5.4 WAR, but get back DeSclefani's 4.2 WAR.

Net/net effect, absolute best case, that's 14.1 WAR added. Let's say not everything goes according to plan, and the Giants get half that, seven extra WAR. Added to their 81 wins this year, that puts them at 88 wins in 2023...again, if they get half the WAR they want to see.  The bottom seed in the playoffs had 87 wins last year.  83 wins would have done it in 2021, 86 would have done it in 2019.

Then, factor into account the new rules (infield shifts, 20 second pitch counts, bigger bases, fewer pickoff attempts) which are likely to favor both the Giants' fielders and hitters.

WAR is an overused, overrated”stat” .

Based on...what?

What single metric do you prefer to compare players?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1642...-statistic

Relating to the Giants?  Watching 150 plus games…..  I understand WAR is a  tool.  But it’s overused in my opinion.  Here’s how I break down the Giants:

SP. Webb, Cobb, DeSclafani, Maenea, Stripling. Wood.  Webb and Cobb are a solid 1-2. From there, good depth, but essentially mostly 5’s. Maenea to me a key.  He was a bottom 5 starter last year.  They need him to rebound.  Not a high strikeout staff.  But should have good strikeout to walk ratio.  Good at keeping ball on ground. ( See below on defense) Innings will be an issue.  

Bullpen - Questionable as always. Getting to Doval a theme. Junis and Wood (who I think will be odd man out until injuries.  He should be. Wood has been bad 3 of last 4 years) nice pieces as they can go multiple innings.  Ty Rogers has always been valuable as a guy that can give you a lot of appearances and innings.  Shouldn’t be a late inning high leverage guy. Alexander a nice lefty piece.  High ground ball rate.  Back end Taylor Rogers helps.  Brebbia was good first half and then faded. Overused.  Not great getting to 9th.   Doval was lights out and should get better. Protect that arm as much as possible. 

OF - Conforto, Yaz, Slater, Haniger.  Left to right with Yaz/Slater platooning in CF.   Better than ‘22.  Probably most improved unit.  Defensively probably a little below average.  Yaz is an excellent RF.  Nowhere near as good in CF.  Slater takes a lot of bad routes abd doesn’t get great jumps. But he can run.  Certainly not the sh-t show of ‘22.  Offensively, could be quite good.  Conforto obviously a big Q coming off injuries and a year that he sat out.  Haniger could be their best hitter.

Inf. Never has “hit it to Crawford” been more true.  If he gets hurt, it’s a big problem. Estrada should be ok at second.  The corners are questionable.  At best. Flores/Davis/Wade at first.  Villar/Davis at third. That is a poor defensive infield.  And please, take away LaStellas glove. Offensively?  It’s average.  At best.  Villar - who knows. Davis looked good at times.  Wade?  Who knows. I’ve always liked Flores.  But he’s best as a utility player with about 450 PAs.

Catching. Bart.  Hopefully continues to get better. If not, catchers a problem.

Overall - pitching should be their strength. But losing Rodon hurt badly.  Defense is still not going to be very good.  Perhaps it won’t be abysmal.

Offensively - should be solid. Pederson also in that mix.  Just keep him out of the OF. 

Team speed - still slow.  

Overall - 77-85.

Quick cut to the last sentence….

81+ wins based strictly on the new schedule that has them playing LA and SD 7 fewer times each.  

A more detailed look at the roster when things firm up after the first of the year….

New schedule adds an interesting twist.  Not sure how it cuts.  But I like it. 76 gams in division is too many. Even 56 is a bit high.

[Mick]

Overall pitching comments: 
1. Giants pitchers gave up the fewest HRs in MLB last year. 
2. Giants had the second best FIP (Fielding, independent Pitching; basically a measure of limiting HRs, HBPs, BBs and getting strikeouts) in the majors last year).
3. Giants pitchers had the 8th best SO/BB ratio in the majors.
4. In 2021, the Giants ranked 8th in fielding.  In 2022, the Giants ranked 29th. It hugely affected pitching performance.
5. Giants had 2nd best ERA in 2021, but 13th best in 2022. Also had 17th best WHIP

Starting pitching: Losing Rodon sucks. We get DeSclefani back. Webb just keeps improving, Stripling was 10-4 with 3.01 ERA. Our first three will be very strong, I think. Cobb was about league average ERA/WHIP, he's fine at #4. Depends on which Manaea shows up. Manaea himself said his preparation for starts has been terrible, and he's going with the Giants because of the great coaching staff. Maybe he's the #5. If the 2021 Wood shows up, great for the Giants. If it's the 2022 Wood, he's a long reliever at best. Junis & Hjelle round it out. Who knows when Harrison arrives?

Relief pitching: 2021 pitching was much stronger. Almost every pitcher did better ERA/WHIP wise. Littell, Garcia, Leone were superb in 2021, marginal in 2022. Tyler and Taylor Rogers should be really strong. Cole Waites, Scott Alexander and Szapucki pitched well, they're still on the 40-man roster

Batting:
DH Pederson will do great as DH.
C Bart was anemic at .660 OPS, 112 Ks in 291 ABs. Bailey won the overall GG in the minors.  Giants looking at Casali again (.696 OPS)
3B: Villar and Davis looked really strong, .787 and .857 OPS. Not a great fielder. Does Schmitt and his minor league Gold Glove make it this year? I don't think Longoria comes back.
SS: Crawford had 16 errors in 118 games and a .652 OPS. Ouch. Don't think Correa will end up with the Giants, not sure where he will end up.
1B: Flores, .710 OPS, Belt .676. No great FA options, maybe Duvall.
OF: Slater at .774 OPS was leader, Yaz at .697 OPS. Wade was .665, big dropoff from 2021. Conforto and Haniger would have to make significant comebacks. They were awesome in the past.

Overall batting comments: the Giants were 11th in runs scored and 12th in HRs out of 30 teams. They were 6th in most walks, but 5th in most strikeouts. Not horrible, but definitely room for improvement. They were the second oldest team last year, but 1st was Yankees, 3rd was Mets, 4th was Dodgers. So, not too worried about age.

Fielding breakdown by position, using rTot and Rdrs for pitchers (2021 rank in parentheses)
Pitching staff was ranked dead last of 30 teams in the majors (12)
Giants had 24th worst fielding catching staff of 30 MLB teams (1. No kidding, the Giants had the best catching staff in baseball in 2021, with Posey et al)
Giants outfielders collectively ranked 24th. By position, it was 26th in right field, 11th in center field, and 24th in LF.
Dead last at 1B (15)
29th at 2B (18)
28th at SS. BTW, the Twins, with Correa, were 18th. (11)
24th at 3B (16)

Conclusions:
1. Really hope the Giants work on fielding in spring training. They need it desperately.
2. Losing Posey really hurt.
3. I suspect losing Ron Wotus in 2022 really hurt, as he positioned the defense.
4. Losing Donnie Ecker, hitting coach in 2021 really hurt. All the starters had career years in 2021 except Longoria who had his second best year. The Rangers went from 28th in hitting to 11th after he joined them.
5. Losing Ethan Katz as pitching coach in 2021 hurt. White Sox went from 26th to 11th in runs allowed per game after he took over.

[Mick]

Overall pitching comments: 
1. Giants pitchers gave up the fewest HRs in MLB last year. 
2. Giants had the second best FIP (Fielding, independent Pitching; basically a measure of limiting HRs, HBPs, BBs and getting strikeouts) in the majors last year).
3. Giants pitchers had the 8th best SO/BB ratio in the majors.
4. In 2021, the Giants ranked 8th in fielding.  In 2022, the Giants ranked 29th. It hugely affected pitching performance.
5. Giants had 2nd best ERA in 2021, but 13th best in 2022. Also had 17th best WHIP

Starting pitching: Losing Rodon sucks. We get DeSclefani back. Webb just keeps improving, Stripling was 10-4 with 3.01 ERA. Our first three will be very strong, I think. Cobb was about league average ERA/WHIP, he's fine at #4. Depends on which Manaea shows up. Manaea himself said his preparation for starts has been terrible, and he's going with the Giants because of the great coaching staff. Maybe he's the #5. If the 2021 Wood shows up, great for the Giants. If it's the 2022 Wood, he's a long reliever at best. Junis & Hjelle round it out. Who knows when Harrison arrives?

Relief pitching: 2021 pitching was much stronger. Almost every pitcher did better ERA/WHIP wise. Littell, Garcia, Leone were superb in 2021, marginal in 2022. Tyler and Taylor Rogers should be really strong. Cole Waites, Scott Alexander and Szapucki pitched well, they're still on the 40-man roster

Batting:
DH Pederson will do great as DH.
C Bart was anemic at .660 OPS, 112 Ks in 291 ABs. Bailey won the overall GG in the minors.  Giants looking at Casali again (.696 OPS)
3B: Villar and Davis looked really strong, .787 and .857 OPS. Not a great fielder. Does Schmitt and his minor league Gold Glove make it this year? I don't think Longoria comes back.
SS: Crawford had 16 errors in 118 games and a .652 OPS. Ouch. Don't think Correa will end up with the Giants, not sure where he will end up.
1B: Flores, .710 OPS, Belt .676. No great FA options, maybe Duvall.
OF: Slater at .774 OPS was leader, Yaz at .697 OPS. Wade was .665, big dropoff from 2021. Conforto and Haniger would have to make significant comebacks. They were awesome in the past.

Overall batting comments: the Giants were 11th in runs scored and 12th in HRs out of 30 teams. They were 6th in most walks, but 5th in most strikeouts. Not horrible, but definitely room for improvement. They were the second oldest team last year, but 1st was Yankees, 3rd was Mets, 4th was Dodgers. So, not too worried about age.

Fielding breakdown by position, using rTot and Rdrs for pitchers (2021 rank in parentheses)
Pitching staff was ranked dead last of 30 teams in the majors (12)
Giants had 24th worst fielding catching staff of 30 MLB teams (1. No kidding, the Giants had the best catching staff in baseball in 2021, with Posey et al)
Giants outfielders collectively ranked 24th. By position, it was 26th in right field, 11th in center field, and 24th in LF.
Dead last at 1B (15)
29th at 2B (18)
28th at SS. BTW, the Twins, with Correa, were 18th. (11)
24th at 3B (16)

Conclusions:
1. Really hope the Giants work on fielding in spring training. They need it desperately.
2. Losing Posey really hurt.
3. I suspect losing Ron Wotus in 2022 really hurt, as he positioned the defense.
4. Losing Donnie Ecker, hitting coach in 2021 really hurt. All the starters had career years in 2021 except Longoria who had his second best year. The Rangers went from 28th in hitting to 11th after he joined them.
5. Losing Ethan Katz as pitching coach in 2021 hurt. White Sox went from 26th to 11th in runs allowed per game after he took over.

[Phogge]

Think Caselli May have signed elsewhere. Sorry they didn’t get Bernhardt.

[Phogge]

Think Caselli May have signed elsewhere. Sorry they didn’t get Bernhardt.

[skip75]

Casali to the Reds.  Barnhart to the Cubs.

[skip75]

Casali to the Reds.  Barnhart to the Cubs.

[Mick]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

[Mick]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

[Mick]

Jack Vita says passing on 2x AL All Star shortstop Carlos Correa was the right call, because Correa has played 111 games or more in just 3 of 8 seasons. Also, Correa finished in Top 15 in AL MVP voting just once, in 2021 when he finished 5th.

OPINION: Jed Hoyer, Cubs Made Right Decision Passing on Carlos Correa - Fastball
OPINION: Carlos Correa's $350 Million Contract Will Not Age Well - Fastball (si.com)

[Mick]

Jack Vita says passing on 2x AL All Star shortstop Carlos Correa was the right call, because Correa has played 111 games or more in just 3 of 8 seasons. Also, Correa finished in Top 15 in AL MVP voting just once, in 2021 when he finished 5th.

OPINION: Jed Hoyer, Cubs Made Right Decision Passing on Carlos Correa - Fastball
OPINION: Carlos Correa's $350 Million Contract Will Not Age Well - Fastball (si.com)

[old spanish trail]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

I think Sobel is good bat, no field.

[old spanish trail]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

I think Sobel is good bat, no field.

[lex24]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher.

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

[lex24]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher.

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

[Mick]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

[Mick]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

[lex24]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

I’m confident the Giants are not looking at Sabol as a No 2 catcher. The slight chance he has to stick is as a utility player.

[lex24]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

I’m confident the Giants are not looking at Sabol as a No 2 catcher. The slight chance he has to stick is as a utility player.

[Giants]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

I’m confident the Giants are not looking at Sabol as a No 2 catcher. The slight chance he has to stick is as a utility player.

At this point, Wynns is the number #2.  What are the chances between now and the beginning of spring training that SF can find someone better?

[Giants]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

I’m confident the Giants are not looking at Sabol as a No 2 catcher. The slight chance he has to stick is as a utility player.

At this point, Wynns is the number #2.  What are the chances between now and the beginning of spring training that SF can find someone better?

[lex24]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

I’m confident the Giants are not looking at Sabol as a No 2 catcher. The slight chance he has to stick is as a utility player.

At this point, Wynns is the number #2.  What are the chances between now and the beginning of spring training that SF can find someone better?

Just guessing, but pre spring training I think it’s rather slim. At end of ST maybe someone better hits the waiver wire.

  I suppose a trade is possible.  But I doubt (and certainly hope) they wouldnt trade a prospect for a  backup catcher.  Now, if they don’t think Bart is up to the task that’s a different (and more difficult) story.

[lex24]

Not too many catchers left. I think two-time all-star Gary Sanchez is about it, and he's batted under .200 collectively over the past three years. Might as well have Joey Bart (.645), Patrick Bailey (MILB Gold Glove, but a high-A OPS of .779), but Blake Sobel is interesting: .875 OPS in the minors with 34 home runs in 900 ABs.

Sanchez is a lousy defensive catcher. 

Sabol is a utility player that can catch.  He’s not a catcher per se.  As a backup catcher, job 1 is defense and handling pitchers. Bat is secondary.  If he sticks it’s as a utility player that can be 3d catcher. 

As a Rule 5 guy he has to be significantly better than 12-13 to make team out of ST. And then he has to stay with Giants all year.  Long odds.

I think it's the other way around. In his minor league career, Sabol has played 801 minor league innings at catcher, which is 56% of his innings. In the last two years, he seems to have settled at catcher, with 3/4ths of his innings (800 of 1090) played at catcher.

And he's not a great fielder, to be sure. He throws out 16% of baserunners, his fielding percentage is .993, and he had 11 passed balls in 66 games. For purposes of comparison, Buster Posey had 27 passed balls in 1,063 starts at catcher.

---

Correa and Boras don't want to restructure the deal to accommodate for injuries. An internal Mets source places the odds at 55%.  Three other teams are showing interest:

Carlos Correa's Mets deal hangs in the balance as three other teams reportedly show interest in All-Star - CBSSports.com

I’m confident the Giants are not looking at Sabol as a No 2 catcher. The slight chance he has to stick is as a utility player.

At this point, Wynns is the number #2.  What are the chances between now and the beginning of spring training that SF can find someone better?

Just guessing, but pre spring training I think it’s rather slim. At end of ST maybe someone better hits the waiver wire.

  I suppose a trade is possible.  But I doubt (and certainly hope) they wouldnt trade a prospect for a  backup catcher.  Now, if they don’t think Bart is up to the task that’s a different (and more difficult) story.

[Mick]

Just guessing, but pre spring training I think it’s rather slim. At end of ST maybe someone better hits the waiver wire. I suppose a trade is possible.  But I doubt (and certainly hope) they wouldnt trade a prospect for a  backup catcher.  Now, if they don’t think Bart is up to the task that’s a different (and more difficult) story.

I think Bart is considerably better than whoever else is out there.

BTW, the Savior Of The San Francisco Giants Franchise Flubbed By Farhan says he doesn't want to restructure the contract with the Mets. In other words, he's a broken player, he knows it, Boras knows it, the Giants know (knew) it, the Twins know it and now the Mets know it. Correa wants to get a 13 year contract for what will be two years of stellar play and two years of acceptable play and only wants to sign with a team that is stupid enough to not demand any health clauses, in the way that Pablo Sandoval didn't want a fatso weighing clause in his contract, much to the Red Sox's chagrin.

MLB rumors: Carlos Correa not interested in Mets contract restructure - NBC Sports Bay Area

[Mick]

Just guessing, but pre spring training I think it’s rather slim. At end of ST maybe someone better hits the waiver wire. I suppose a trade is possible.  But I doubt (and certainly hope) they wouldnt trade a prospect for a  backup catcher.  Now, if they don’t think Bart is up to the task that’s a different (and more difficult) story.

I think Bart is considerably better than whoever else is out there.

BTW, the Savior Of The San Francisco Giants Franchise Flubbed By Farhan says he doesn't want to restructure the contract with the Mets. In other words, he's a broken player, he knows it, Boras knows it, the Giants know (knew) it, the Twins know it and now the Mets know it. Correa wants to get a 13 year contract for what will be two years of stellar play and two years of acceptable play and only wants to sign with a team that is stupid enough to not demand any health clauses, in the way that Pablo Sandoval didn't want a fatso weighing clause in his contract, much to the Red Sox's chagrin.

MLB rumors: Carlos Correa not interested in Mets contract restructure - NBC Sports Bay Area

[Mick]

Predicted San Francisco Giants Opening Day Roster:

1. Wilmer Flores, 1B, R
2. LaMonte Wade, 1B, L
3. David Villar, 3B, R
4. Brandon Crawford, SS, L
5. J.D. Davis, 3B, R
6. Thairo Estrada, UT, Spot OF, R
7. Joc Pederson, DH, Spot OF, L
8. Mike Yastrzemski, OF, L
9. Mike Conforto, OF
10. Mitch Haniger, OF
11. Austin Slater, OF, R
12. Joey Bart, C, R
13. Austin Wynns, C
14. Blake Sabol, C
15. Logan Webb, SP
16. Alex Cobb, SP
17. Alex Wood, SP
18. Anthony DeSclafani, SP
19. Sean Manaea, LRP
20. Ross Stripling, SP
21. Jakob Junis, LRP
22. Taylor Rogers, RP
23. Tyler Rogers, RP
24. Camilo Doval, RP
25. Scott Alexander, RP
26. John Brebbia, RP

Tristan Beck, Isan Diaz, Jose Cruz, Sean Hjelle, Sammy Long, Marco Luciano, Yunior Marte, Luis Matos, Heliot Ramos, Randy Rodriguez, Thomas Szapucki, Cole Waites, Keaton Winn, Brett Wisely all start the season in Sacramento or get traded. Team cuts ties with senior citizens La Stella, Longoria and Belt.

[Mick]

Predicted San Francisco Giants Opening Day Roster:

1. Wilmer Flores, 1B, R
2. LaMonte Wade, 1B, L
3. David Villar, 3B, R
4. Brandon Crawford, SS, L
5. J.D. Davis, 3B, R
6. Thairo Estrada, UT, Spot OF, R
7. Joc Pederson, DH, Spot OF, L
8. Mike Yastrzemski, OF, L
9. Mike Conforto, OF
10. Mitch Haniger, OF
11. Austin Slater, OF, R
12. Joey Bart, C, R
13. Austin Wynns, C
14. Blake Sabol, C
15. Logan Webb, SP
16. Alex Cobb, SP
17. Alex Wood, SP
18. Anthony DeSclafani, SP
19. Sean Manaea, LRP
20. Ross Stripling, SP
21. Jakob Junis, LRP
22. Taylor Rogers, RP
23. Tyler Rogers, RP
24. Camilo Doval, RP
25. Scott Alexander, RP
26. John Brebbia, RP

Tristan Beck, Isan Diaz, Jose Cruz, Sean Hjelle, Sammy Long, Marco Luciano, Yunior Marte, Luis Matos, Heliot Ramos, Randy Rodriguez, Thomas Szapucki, Cole Waites, Keaton Winn, Brett Wisely all start the season in Sacramento or get traded. Team cuts ties with senior citizens La Stella, Longoria and Belt.

[Giants]

1. Delete Sabol, add another relief pitcher (given the Giants recent track record, they will carry 13 pitchers to start the season).  
2. I anticipate a trade (Slater?) that will change the make-up of the 13 position players.
3. Scratch LaStella, add Villar.

[Giants]

1. Delete Sabol, add another relief pitcher (given the Giants recent track record, they will carry 13 pitchers to start the season).  
2. I anticipate a trade (Slater?) that will change the make-up of the 13 position players.
3. Scratch LaStella, add Villar.

[BobK]

La Stella just scratched

https://www.knbr.com/2022/12/28/giants-d...ssignment/

add Villar

[BobK]

La Stella just scratched

https://www.knbr.com/2022/12/28/giants-d...ssignment/

add Villar

[Mick]

OK, now that the disaster has happened, it's now time to peel away the layers of this rotten onion and learn WTF REALLY happened. This is the story of the lifetimes of Giants reporters. Let's see who comes up with the full monty based on adroit reporting inside the organization, because it's gonna be a doozy. Before that happens, let's pose some questions that need to be answered and engage in some commentary about them.

Who made the call to nix the Correa contract?
It seems highly doubtful that Farhan Zaidi would be the one to balk at the deal based on results of this physical. Maybe he did, but it seems Farr more likely someone in ownership was responsible. It's dubious to me that Farhan would go to Greg Johnson and say "uh, boss, we found something a little concerning with the Correa physical, and I'm not so sure it makes sense to go forward on the contract now."  It seems a lot more likely that Farhan would have said they found something, told Greg Johnson, and he said "that sounds too risky, we need to renegotiate." The other possible reality that would be kind of the worse case scenario, is Greg Johnson has a "mole" checking around Zaidi's actions, and the mole, not Farhan, brought the medical concern to the attention of Greg Johnson, and Johnson told Farhan to cancel the presser, etc. If it wasn't Farhan's call, and he didn't think the issue was that big of a deal or could be managed, he should resign. 

HOW could the Giants not have done due diligence on Correa before agreeing to terms?
It's been reported that the Twins knew of the Correa physical issue and offered him more AAV than the Giants. Aside from anything else, the Giants should have known what the Correa concern was before they negotiated terms of a deal with Boras. Nobody with any wisdom would negotiate the largest contract in organization history without knowing before negotiations start that they know whatever they need to know to move forward. Just like you don't make an offer to buy a company until after due diligence, you don't make the biggest free agent contract offer in franchise history without without doing it. The Giants have plenty of owners who know M&A basics. Someone needs to get to the bottom of why they didn't do it with Correa. 

How can the Giants square being afraid with the Mets and Twins being OK with paying Correa almost the same?
Everyone has different risk tolerance, but both the Mets and Twins were OK with signing Correa to a long term contract. It would be a bigger gamble for the Twins given they aren't nearly as rich as the Giants. The "he's been in the IL 7 times in 8 years" concern is a red herring to me. Every player can get injured and miss time. And FFS, a guy like Evan Longoria was on the IL what, 4-5 times in 2022 alone? Unless Correa misses months at a time with an injury related to whatever caused concern in the physical, the Giants will look even more foolish than they do just allowing this debacle to happen in the first place. And like was pointed out in the Chronicle on Dec. 21, the Mets balked on a contract with a player who had a concerning MRI JUST LAST YEAR.

How can the team possibly gain back the trust of fans?
The Grant Brisbee column on this pratfall has about 600 comments in less than 24 hours. I can assure you most of them are not flattering to the Giants. The most liked comment (222) is this:

It’s really, really hard to squander Three World Series In Five Years-levels of goodwill, but dang if this front office hasn’t done it. I say we dust off and nuke the site from orbit - it’s the only way to be sure.

Pretenders. Con-artists. Charlatans. These are the words the fans are using to describe the Giants in the aftermath of their latest debacle. And nobody gives a F about 107 wins anymore either. When you have the Dodgers and Padres running circles around you, are the 5th richest team in MLB, with the #14 ranked payroll, on a team without a bevy of talented team-controlled youth, you have zero credibility.  I just looked at Spotrac's Giants payroll and OMG is it a a joke. Brandon Crawford is the highest paid regular player. A 36 yo declining SS. Really? Fast forward a year and the Giants only have THREE non-arbitration players in 2024; Haniger, DeSclafani, and Flores. WTF are they even doing? If Haniger plays well, he will be a trade chip this season as the Giants are circling the drain in July.

When do the excuses stop?
The Chronicle column referenced above ripped the Giants a new one in a very New York kind of way for their absurd "San Francisco politics turns off baseball players" pre-excuse before free agency nonsense. As the column correctly points out (and I have been railing about for years), you get passed players choosing other places when all things are equal, by making sure they aren't equal and paying more than anyone else. That's how it works. The Giants are too oblivious to understand they have a special tax on their incompetence, meaning it's going to cost them more to get top players anyone else wants, because the agents know how badly the Giants need to land someone to satisfy their fans. Throw the S.F. cost of living on top, and the Giants probably need to pay 20% more than the next highest offer to land someone coveted by others. One can only imagine what the premium on Giants incompetence and timidness is going to cost them for the next big free agent they do actually sign. But guess what, the Giants balked at Correa, not the other way around.

Is it time for this ownership group to sell the team? Is it time for the fans to boycott the team until they do?
I believe the answers are yes and yes.

You might want to read Mr. Brisbee's column this morning titled "The San Francisco Giants and Carlos Correa: A mea culpa"

The San Francisco Giants and Carlos Correa: A mea culpa - The Athletic

Here's a few choice quotes:

"It is Dec. 27 and Carlos Correa doesn't have an official home."
"Mike Puma of NY Post is hearing from an (inside) source that there's a 55% chance Correa will...sign with the Mets, which is down 44.9% from last week."
"The issues with Correa's ankle are considerable, legitimate and worrisome."
(after performing medical research) "It's entirely possible Correa's ankle is simply jacked."
"If Correa had a plate put in his ankle in 2014, and if the integrity of that plate is looking much worse than it should eight years later, a contract offer as long as the Giants' 13 year one would instantly become untenable."
"Correa's career .OPS is .836, which is...39th among active players."

It continues. Brisbee rushed to judgment, like many/most/virtually all fans. And he doesn't like that they finished second on Aaron Judge who, by all accounts, didn't want to leave New York for the privilege of paying millions more in California taxes. Can you imagine?

Bottom line, he walks back the worst of his comments because of the reality that the Giants medical team found a legitimate medical problem. They didn't dodge a bullet, they likely dodged a cannnonball here.

[Mick]

OK, now that the disaster has happened, it's now time to peel away the layers of this rotten onion and learn WTF REALLY happened. This is the story of the lifetimes of Giants reporters. Let's see who comes up with the full monty based on adroit reporting inside the organization, because it's gonna be a doozy. Before that happens, let's pose some questions that need to be answered and engage in some commentary about them.

Who made the call to nix the Correa contract?
It seems highly doubtful that Farhan Zaidi would be the one to balk at the deal based on results of this physical. Maybe he did, but it seems Farr more likely someone in ownership was responsible. It's dubious to me that Farhan would go to Greg Johnson and say "uh, boss, we found something a little concerning with the Correa physical, and I'm not so sure it makes sense to go forward on the contract now."  It seems a lot more likely that Farhan would have said they found something, told Greg Johnson, and he said "that sounds too risky, we need to renegotiate." The other possible reality that would be kind of the worse case scenario, is Greg Johnson has a "mole" checking around Zaidi's actions, and the mole, not Farhan, brought the medical concern to the attention of Greg Johnson, and Johnson told Farhan to cancel the presser, etc. If it wasn't Farhan's call, and he didn't think the issue was that big of a deal or could be managed, he should resign. 

HOW could the Giants not have done due diligence on Correa before agreeing to terms?
It's been reported that the Twins knew of the Correa physical issue and offered him more AAV than the Giants. Aside from anything else, the Giants should have known what the Correa concern was before they negotiated terms of a deal with Boras. Nobody with any wisdom would negotiate the largest contract in organization history without knowing before negotiations start that they know whatever they need to know to move forward. Just like you don't make an offer to buy a company until after due diligence, you don't make the biggest free agent contract offer in franchise history without without doing it. The Giants have plenty of owners who know M&A basics. Someone needs to get to the bottom of why they didn't do it with Correa. 

How can the Giants square being afraid with the Mets and Twins being OK with paying Correa almost the same?
Everyone has different risk tolerance, but both the Mets and Twins were OK with signing Correa to a long term contract. It would be a bigger gamble for the Twins given they aren't nearly as rich as the Giants. The "he's been in the IL 7 times in 8 years" concern is a red herring to me. Every player can get injured and miss time. And FFS, a guy like Evan Longoria was on the IL what, 4-5 times in 2022 alone? Unless Correa misses months at a time with an injury related to whatever caused concern in the physical, the Giants will look even more foolish than they do just allowing this debacle to happen in the first place. And like was pointed out in the Chronicle on Dec. 21, the Mets balked on a contract with a player who had a concerning MRI JUST LAST YEAR.

How can the team possibly gain back the trust of fans?
The Grant Brisbee column on this pratfall has about 600 comments in less than 24 hours. I can assure you most of them are not flattering to the Giants. The most liked comment (222) is this:

It’s really, really hard to squander Three World Series In Five Years-levels of goodwill, but dang if this front office hasn’t done it. I say we dust off and nuke the site from orbit - it’s the only way to be sure.

Pretenders. Con-artists. Charlatans. These are the words the fans are using to describe the Giants in the aftermath of their latest debacle. And nobody gives a F about 107 wins anymore either. When you have the Dodgers and Padres running circles around you, are the 5th richest team in MLB, with the #14 ranked payroll, on a team without a bevy of talented team-controlled youth, you have zero credibility.  I just looked at Spotrac's Giants payroll and OMG is it a a joke. Brandon Crawford is the highest paid regular player. A 36 yo declining SS. Really? Fast forward a year and the Giants only have THREE non-arbitration players in 2024; Haniger, DeSclafani, and Flores. WTF are they even doing? If Haniger plays well, he will be a trade chip this season as the Giants are circling the drain in July.

When do the excuses stop?
The Chronicle column referenced above ripped the Giants a new one in a very New York kind of way for their absurd "San Francisco politics turns off baseball players" pre-excuse before free agency nonsense. As the column correctly points out (and I have been railing about for years), you get passed players choosing other places when all things are equal, by making sure they aren't equal and paying more than anyone else. That's how it works. The Giants are too oblivious to understand they have a special tax on their incompetence, meaning it's going to cost them more to get top players anyone else wants, because the agents know how badly the Giants need to land someone to satisfy their fans. Throw the S.F. cost of living on top, and the Giants probably need to pay 20% more than the next highest offer to land someone coveted by others. One can only imagine what the premium on Giants incompetence and timidness is going to cost them for the next big free agent they do actually sign. But guess what, the Giants balked at Correa, not the other way around.

Is it time for this ownership group to sell the team? Is it time for the fans to boycott the team until they do?
I believe the answers are yes and yes.

You might want to read Mr. Brisbee's column this morning titled "The San Francisco Giants and Carlos Correa: A mea culpa"

The San Francisco Giants and Carlos Correa: A mea culpa - The Athletic

Here's a few choice quotes:

"It is Dec. 27 and Carlos Correa doesn't have an official home."
"Mike Puma of NY Post is hearing from an (inside) source that there's a 55% chance Correa will...sign with the Mets, which is down 44.9% from last week."
"The issues with Correa's ankle are considerable, legitimate and worrisome."
(after performing medical research) "It's entirely possible Correa's ankle is simply jacked."
"If Correa had a plate put in his ankle in 2014, and if the integrity of that plate is looking much worse than it should eight years later, a contract offer as long as the Giants' 13 year one would instantly become untenable."
"Correa's career .OPS is .836, which is...39th among active players."

It continues. Brisbee rushed to judgment, like many/most/virtually all fans. And he doesn't like that they finished second on Aaron Judge who, by all accounts, didn't want to leave New York for the privilege of paying millions more in California taxes. Can you imagine?

Bottom line, he walks back the worst of his comments because of the reality that the Giants medical team found a legitimate medical problem. They didn't dodge a bullet, they likely dodged a cannnonball here.