[cardcrimson]

I'm so glad La Stella is back. And, did Slater make wrong throw again? Belt in molasses.

Two runs score on a sac bunt and Belt's throwing error to the plate. Ugh. 

Question, why are both of those runs considered earned? I can see the first one, but certainly not the second one.

1) You can never assume a runner will be out on a fielder’s choice/sacrifice.  Therefore, the first run is considered earned whether Belt makes a good or bad throw home (as long as the runner is safe at home).   

2) Next, whether the trail runner stops at third or scores on the errant throw, his run is considered earned because the next batter hit an HR. Therefore, he would have scored even if he did not attempt to reach home base on the errant throw.

Thanks. Interestingly, I don't think you can assume the next batter would have hit a home run regardless, especially with a pitching change. Those are the rules though, I guess.

[cardcrimson]

I'm so glad La Stella is back. And, did Slater make wrong throw again? Belt in molasses.

Two runs score on a sac bunt and Belt's throwing error to the plate. Ugh. 

Question, why are both of those runs considered earned? I can see the first one, but certainly not the second one.

1) You can never assume a runner will be out on a fielder’s choice/sacrifice.  Therefore, the first run is considered earned whether Belt makes a good or bad throw home (as long as the runner is safe at home).   

2) Next, whether the trail runner stops at third or scores on the errant throw, his run is considered earned because the next batter hit an HR. Therefore, he would have scored even if he did not attempt to reach home base on the errant throw.

Thanks. Interestingly, I don't think you can assume the next batter would have hit a home run regardless, especially with a pitching change. Those are the rules though, I guess.

[BostonCard]

So, if the next batter had struck out, the run would have been unearned?

BC

[BostonCard]

So, if the next batter had struck out, the run would have been unearned?

BC

[Phogge]

If it was the third out.

[Phogge]

If it was the third out.

[Giants]

I'm so glad La Stella is back. And, did Slater make wrong throw again? Belt in molasses.

Two runs score on a sac bunt and Belt's throwing error to the plate. Ugh. 

Question, why are both of those runs considered earned? I can see the first one, but certainly not the second one.

1) You can never assume a runner will be out on a fielder’s choice/sacrifice.  Therefore, the first run is considered earned whether Belt makes a good or bad throw home (as long as the runner is safe at home).   

2) Next, whether the trail runner stops at third or scores on the errant throw, his run is considered earned because the next batter hit an HR. Therefore, he would have scored even if he did not attempt to reach home base on the errant throw.

Thanks. Interestingly, I don't think you can assume the next batter would have hit a home run regardless, especially with a pitching change. Those are the rules though, I guess.

Correct.  You can never anticipate anything.  The determination of whether a run is earned or unearned is not made until the end of an inning.

[Giants]

I'm so glad La Stella is back. And, did Slater make wrong throw again? Belt in molasses.

Two runs score on a sac bunt and Belt's throwing error to the plate. Ugh. 

Question, why are both of those runs considered earned? I can see the first one, but certainly not the second one.

1) You can never assume a runner will be out on a fielder’s choice/sacrifice.  Therefore, the first run is considered earned whether Belt makes a good or bad throw home (as long as the runner is safe at home).   

2) Next, whether the trail runner stops at third or scores on the errant throw, his run is considered earned because the next batter hit an HR. Therefore, he would have scored even if he did not attempt to reach home base on the errant throw.

Thanks. Interestingly, I don't think you can assume the next batter would have hit a home run regardless, especially with a pitching change. Those are the rules though, I guess.

Correct.  You can never anticipate anything.  The determination of whether a run is earned or unearned is not made until the end of an inning.

[Phogge]

When I played I never criticized an error behind me. But inside I was pissed when our infielders booted a grounder. Of course they never got on me if I got shelled but I'm sure that they were equally pissed.

Rodon and the bat were a sign of weakness. I'm surprised that he wasn't suspended a start.

[Phogge]

When I played I never criticized an error behind me. But inside I was pissed when our infielders booted a grounder. Of course they never got on me if I got shelled but I'm sure that they were equally pissed.

Rodon and the bat were a sign of weakness. I'm surprised that he wasn't suspended a start.

[cardcrimson]

Rodon and the bat were a sign of weakness. I'm surprised that he wasn't suspended a start.

Trade bait right now.

[cardcrimson]

Rodon and the bat were a sign of weakness. I'm surprised that he wasn't suspended a start.

Trade bait right now.

[Phogge]

Not according to Jim Bowden. Says the Giants are shopping for an infielder who doesn't trip getting out of bed or run over his cat in the driveway.

[Phogge]

Not according to Jim Bowden. Says the Giants are shopping for an infielder who doesn't trip getting out of bed or run over his cat in the driveway.

[old spanish trail]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

[old spanish trail]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

[Giants]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

Villar is a AAAA talent…

[Giants]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

Villar is a AAAA talent…

[OutsiderFan]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

Villar is a AAAA talent…

It's amazing how the Giants can routinely produce guys who rake up to AAA, but fail at the MLB level. It's a special talent that I am aware no other organization has. Remember, David Villar was not on the 40-man roster when he was dominating for the River Cats. The Giants knew he wasn't a prospect of any real value, and now the fans know it too. Kind of comical that MLB put him in the Futures Game.

[OutsiderFan]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

Villar is a AAAA talent…

It's amazing how the Giants can routinely produce guys who rake up to AAA, but fail at the MLB level. It's a special talent that I am aware no other organization has. Remember, David Villar was not on the 40-man roster when he was dominating for the River Cats. The Giants knew he wasn't a prospect of any real value, and now the fans know it too. Kind of comical that MLB put him in the Futures Game.

[Mick]

It's amazing how the Giants can routinely produce guys who rake up to AAA, but fail at the MLB level. It's a special talent that I am aware no other organization has. Remember, David Villar was not on the 40-man roster when he was dominating for the River Cats. The Giants knew he wasn't a prospect of any real value, and now the fans know it too. Kind of comical that MLB put him in the Futures Game.

Here's an interesting link. From 1996 through 2018, the Giants ranked 30th in career WAR for all drafted players, 26th for all drafted and signed players. They ranked 30th in impact players (10+ career WAR) with just 8.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml.../39539549/

Giants have had a few strong draft selections. Marvin Benard is one of only seven 50th round draft picks to ever make the majors, he had a nine year career, 8.6 WAR, .343 OBP, .744 OPS. Sergio Romo was a 28th round selection, nine years with the Giants, played all six years since then, still on a major league roster, 10.1 WAR, 1.049 career WHIP. Unfortunately, those are exceptions. They've had more Gary Brown experiences than Sergio Romo experiences.

They had the great stretch from 2005 to 2009 (Lincecum, Posey, Bumgarner, Crawford, Belt, Romo -- and Zack Wheeler, who they traded), but the rest of it was a comparative wasteland.

[Mick]

It's amazing how the Giants can routinely produce guys who rake up to AAA, but fail at the MLB level. It's a special talent that I am aware no other organization has. Remember, David Villar was not on the 40-man roster when he was dominating for the River Cats. The Giants knew he wasn't a prospect of any real value, and now the fans know it too. Kind of comical that MLB put him in the Futures Game.

Here's an interesting link. From 1996 through 2018, the Giants ranked 30th in career WAR for all drafted players, 26th for all drafted and signed players. They ranked 30th in impact players (10+ career WAR) with just 8.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml.../39539549/

Giants have had a few strong draft selections. Marvin Benard is one of only seven 50th round draft picks to ever make the majors, he had a nine year career, 8.6 WAR, .343 OBP, .744 OPS. Sergio Romo was a 28th round selection, nine years with the Giants, played all six years since then, still on a major league roster, 10.1 WAR, 1.049 career WHIP. Unfortunately, those are exceptions. They've had more Gary Brown experiences than Sergio Romo experiences.

They had the great stretch from 2005 to 2009 (Lincecum, Posey, Bumgarner, Crawford, Belt, Romo -- and Zack Wheeler, who they traded), but the rest of it was a comparative wasteland.

[lex24]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

Villar is a AAAA talent…

It's amazing how the Giants can routinely produce guys who rake up to AAA, but fail at the MLB level. It's a special talent that I am aware no other organization has. Remember, David Villar was not on the 40-man roster when he was dominating for the River Cats. The Giants knew he wasn't a prospect of any real value, and now the fans know it too. Kind of comical that MLB put him in the Futures Game.

Kind of comical to me that the determination on Villar has been made after about 50 PAs.  If that.  He’s looked decent at third. At the plate, he doesn’t appear overmatched, although he’s not producing much. He has not yet shown power - too many ground balls.  Strikeouts were to be expected  

Villar is an 11th round pick that has shown power at the minor league level.  He put himself on the radar.  He may be AAAA.  But I think it’s way too soon  to give up on him.  Not many make the jump mid season and tear it up.

With Longoria out and gone next year, Giants need to see if he can step in. Schmitt is a couple years ago. Early returns not good. My concern is they are going to stick La Stella at third vs right handers. Which will limit Villar AB’s. Maybe they have already decided. Pretty quick hook if that’s the case.

I remember when the Giants had Adam Duvall. 11th round pick. Hit a lot of HRs at minor league level. Giants never truly gave him a chance. AAAA was what it appeared. Well, he’s had a pretty darn good career. Not saying Villar will repeat that. But I’m not giving up on a guy that hit over 40 HRs in a year and a half.

Finally, I’m confident that most if not all teams have guys that hit in the minors and don’t at the MLB level.  Just more noticeable when it’s your team

[lex24]

Wait. LaStella can't do it? How about Donnie Walton? If Crawford returned at 95% they would be ok with Estrada at second. Need somebody else who can fill in behind. And, no, LaStella is not the answer. Btw, did Villar just have an over the top performance at Sacramento. He is providing nothing at the plate and only fair defense. Wynns is a triple A catcher. Bart is a quite good catcher, but can't be counted on pretty much at all at the plate. Giants are leaking oil badly.

Villar is a AAAA talent…

It's amazing how the Giants can routinely produce guys who rake up to AAA, but fail at the MLB level. It's a special talent that I am aware no other organization has. Remember, David Villar was not on the 40-man roster when he was dominating for the River Cats. The Giants knew he wasn't a prospect of any real value, and now the fans know it too. Kind of comical that MLB put him in the Futures Game.

Kind of comical to me that the determination on Villar has been made after about 50 PAs.  If that.  He’s looked decent at third. At the plate, he doesn’t appear overmatched, although he’s not producing much. He has not yet shown power - too many ground balls.  Strikeouts were to be expected  

Villar is an 11th round pick that has shown power at the minor league level.  He put himself on the radar.  He may be AAAA.  But I think it’s way too soon  to give up on him.  Not many make the jump mid season and tear it up.

With Longoria out and gone next year, Giants need to see if he can step in. Schmitt is a couple years ago. Early returns not good. My concern is they are going to stick La Stella at third vs right handers. Which will limit Villar AB’s. Maybe they have already decided. Pretty quick hook if that’s the case.

I remember when the Giants had Adam Duvall. 11th round pick. Hit a lot of HRs at minor league level. Giants never truly gave him a chance. AAAA was what it appeared. Well, he’s had a pretty darn good career. Not saying Villar will repeat that. But I’m not giving up on a guy that hit over 40 HRs in a year and a half.

Finally, I’m confident that most if not all teams have guys that hit in the minors and don’t at the MLB level.  Just more noticeable when it’s your team

[OutsiderFan]

Well, Mick provided the numbers to prove the Giants are the worst in MLB at producing impact MLB talent. So yes, other teams do have players who are great at all other levels than MLB, but they have a fair number who actually do make the jump. The Giants may be my team, but no team is nearly as bad as they are at producing MLB talent, so the fact they are my team doesn't color my judgement at all.

[OutsiderFan]

Well, Mick provided the numbers to prove the Giants are the worst in MLB at producing impact MLB talent. So yes, other teams do have players who are great at all other levels than MLB, but they have a fair number who actually do make the jump. The Giants may be my team, but no team is nearly as bad as they are at producing MLB talent, so the fact they are my team doesn't color my judgement at all.

[BobK]

Recently read a story that only 9 Giants draftees 2015 draft to now have made the Majors. That’s a killer

[BobK]

Recently read a story that only 9 Giants draftees 2015 draft to now have made the Majors. That’s a killer

[OutsiderFan]

I asked this a few weeks ago and nobody had an answer, and I can't find anything anywhere that provides one, but do any of y'all have any idea what is going on with Marco Luciano? Last I heard he was rehabbing a back strain in Arizona, but that was three weeks ago, and he hasn't played for Eugene since June.

At the time, he was talked about as close to getting promoted to Richmond, but that seems unlikely now. I really wanted to see him in AA this year to give us some hope that the Giants in fact CAN develop a 21 or younger talent at the MLB level, and have him playing for the Giants in 2023. This back injury mystery is testing my optimism that Luciano can be counted on. It's probably just a blip, but until that is confirmed, my optimism is on hold, and I want to feel optimistic about at least Luciano and Harrison in this lost season!

[OutsiderFan]

I asked this a few weeks ago and nobody had an answer, and I can't find anything anywhere that provides one, but do any of y'all have any idea what is going on with Marco Luciano? Last I heard he was rehabbing a back strain in Arizona, but that was three weeks ago, and he hasn't played for Eugene since June.

At the time, he was talked about as close to getting promoted to Richmond, but that seems unlikely now. I really wanted to see him in AA this year to give us some hope that the Giants in fact CAN develop a 21 or younger talent at the MLB level, and have him playing for the Giants in 2023. This back injury mystery is testing my optimism that Luciano can be counted on. It's probably just a blip, but until that is confirmed, my optimism is on hold, and I want to feel optimistic about at least Luciano and Harrison in this lost season!

[lex24]

Well, Mick provided the numbers to prove the Giants are the worst in MLB at producing impact MLB talent. So yes, other teams do have players who are great at all other levels than MLB, but they have a fair number who actually do make the jump. The Giants may be my team, but no team is nearly as bad as they are at producing MLB talent, so the fact they are my team doesn't color my judgement at all.

You take the good with the bad. The three WS Championships teams  were loaded with home grown talent.  Giants had a terrific drafting run leading  to those teams. 

But then, yes, major misses in draft. Definitely paying for that now.

And most perplexing, it’s been since Chili Davis that they drafted and developed a high quality Major League outfielder.

[lex24]

Well, Mick provided the numbers to prove the Giants are the worst in MLB at producing impact MLB talent. So yes, other teams do have players who are great at all other levels than MLB, but they have a fair number who actually do make the jump. The Giants may be my team, but no team is nearly as bad as they are at producing MLB talent, so the fact they are my team doesn't color my judgement at all.

You take the good with the bad. The three WS Championships teams  were loaded with home grown talent.  Giants had a terrific drafting run leading  to those teams. 

But then, yes, major misses in draft. Definitely paying for that now.

And most perplexing, it’s been since Chili Davis that they drafted and developed a high quality Major League outfielder.

[Phogge]

There are a bunch of teams with a far better MLB drafting record who didn’t win WS 2010-2019.

The Giants are fast tracking Vaun Brown. A 10th round pick now 24 YRS old who tore up Low A and is tearing up High A. He can steal bases and so can Hunter Bishop and Johnson at Sacramento, a .280 hitter who plays CF.

Of course none of them are Juan Soto.

[Phogge]

There are a bunch of teams with a far better MLB drafting record who didn’t win WS 2010-2019.

The Giants are fast tracking Vaun Brown. A 10th round pick now 24 YRS old who tore up Low A and is tearing up High A. He can steal bases and so can Hunter Bishop and Johnson at Sacramento, a .280 hitter who plays CF.

Of course none of them are Juan Soto.

[lex24]

There are a bunch of teams with a far better MLB drafting record who didn’t win WS 2010-2019.

The Giants are fast tracking Vaun Brown. A 10th round pick now 24 YRS old who tore up Low A and is tearing up High A. He can steal bases and so can Hunter Bishop and Johnson at Sacramento, a .280 hitter who plays CF.



Of course none of them are Juan Soto.

Bryce Johnson is intriguing.  Fast.  Solid OBP.  Plus defender. But lacks power. Hit tool not real high. Sounds a lot like Duggar.  I don’t think he’s in Giants plans.  But I’d like to see him get a shot. Neither Slater nor Yaz are quality CF.  Both are at least solid as corner OFs.  The rest of the Giants OF’s are poor defensively.

Plus the Giants need to start placing value on speed. Next year shifts will be gone. They have changed the ball and added humidifiers in all parks. Scoring in ways besides HR’s and defending perhaps gaining more prominence.

[lex24]

There are a bunch of teams with a far better MLB drafting record who didn’t win WS 2010-2019.

The Giants are fast tracking Vaun Brown. A 10th round pick now 24 YRS old who tore up Low A and is tearing up High A. He can steal bases and so can Hunter Bishop and Johnson at Sacramento, a .280 hitter who plays CF.



Of course none of them are Juan Soto.

Bryce Johnson is intriguing.  Fast.  Solid OBP.  Plus defender. But lacks power. Hit tool not real high. Sounds a lot like Duggar.  I don’t think he’s in Giants plans.  But I’d like to see him get a shot. Neither Slater nor Yaz are quality CF.  Both are at least solid as corner OFs.  The rest of the Giants OF’s are poor defensively.

Plus the Giants need to start placing value on speed. Next year shifts will be gone. They have changed the ball and added humidifiers in all parks. Scoring in ways besides HR’s and defending perhaps gaining more prominence.

[Phogge]

Harrison’s latest line: 3 IP, 3 BB, 5 K, zero runs.

[Phogge]

Harrison’s latest line: 3 IP, 3 BB, 5 K, zero runs.

[Mick]

Well, Mick provided the numbers to prove the Giants are the worst in MLB at producing impact MLB talent. So yes, other teams do have players who are great at all other levels than MLB, but they have a fair number who actually do make the jump. The Giants may be my team, but no team is nearly as bad as they are at producing MLB talent, so the fact they are my team doesn't color my judgement at all.

You take the good with the bad. The three WS Championships teams  were loaded with home grown talent.  Giants had a terrific drafting run leading  to those teams. 

But then, yes, major misses in draft. Definitely paying for that now.

And most perplexing, it’s been since Chili Davis that they drafted and developed a high quality Major League outfielder.

Can you imagine the 1968 SFG draft? First round in June, Gary Matthews.  Second round in January, Garry Maddox.  Third round in January, George Foster.  All SoCal HS players, all were between 30 and 45 career WAR.

[Mick]

Well, Mick provided the numbers to prove the Giants are the worst in MLB at producing impact MLB talent. So yes, other teams do have players who are great at all other levels than MLB, but they have a fair number who actually do make the jump. The Giants may be my team, but no team is nearly as bad as they are at producing MLB talent, so the fact they are my team doesn't color my judgement at all.

You take the good with the bad. The three WS Championships teams  were loaded with home grown talent.  Giants had a terrific drafting run leading  to those teams. 

But then, yes, major misses in draft. Definitely paying for that now.

And most perplexing, it’s been since Chili Davis that they drafted and developed a high quality Major League outfielder.

Can you imagine the 1968 SFG draft? First round in June, Gary Matthews.  Second round in January, Garry Maddox.  Third round in January, George Foster.  All SoCal HS players, all were between 30 and 45 career WAR.