[MV72018]

Three generations of Stanford fans spent much of last night's game laughing (to stop from crying). It was the silent comedy of college basketball. The repeated blocks against Reynaud. Guys passing the ball back and forth to each other as if they were the only two on the team. Guys finding an opening for a mid-range jumper and not knowing what to do except stop and pass the ball to nowhere. Never seen it so bad. It'd be one thing if this team got destroyed by the likes of Baylor and AZ, but won the games they ought to win (Santa Clara, Udub). But no.

I was in Haase's camp after the explosive start to 2019-20, then had my doubts by season's end -- as much as Stanford spun it, it wasn't just a Covid lockdown that kept that squad out of the Big Dance. Last year was a bizarre season by any metric, so I had no problem giving him a mulligan. This season has to be make or break. No more excuses, no more "But he's such a good guy and recruiter." I'm not so delusional as to think a new coach would bring Stanford to the NCAAs any time soon, but this iteration of Stanford men's hoops needs to end. 

As much as we complain about Muir, he was a hoops player in college, right? If he saw that game last night, he has to be disgusted. That's my hope, anyway.

Hope springs eternal, but as regards the possibility of Muir firing Haase, don't hold your breath.

[MV72018]

Three generations of Stanford fans spent much of last night's game laughing (to stop from crying). It was the silent comedy of college basketball. The repeated blocks against Reynaud. Guys passing the ball back and forth to each other as if they were the only two on the team. Guys finding an opening for a mid-range jumper and not knowing what to do except stop and pass the ball to nowhere. Never seen it so bad. It'd be one thing if this team got destroyed by the likes of Baylor and AZ, but won the games they ought to win (Santa Clara, Udub). But no.

I was in Haase's camp after the explosive start to 2019-20, then had my doubts by season's end -- as much as Stanford spun it, it wasn't just a Covid lockdown that kept that squad out of the Big Dance. Last year was a bizarre season by any metric, so I had no problem giving him a mulligan. This season has to be make or break. No more excuses, no more "But he's such a good guy and recruiter." I'm not so delusional as to think a new coach would bring Stanford to the NCAAs any time soon, but this iteration of Stanford men's hoops needs to end. 

As much as we complain about Muir, he was a hoops player in college, right? If he saw that game last night, he has to be disgusted. That's my hope, anyway.

Hope springs eternal, but as regards the possibility of Muir firing Haase, don't hold your breath.

[FarmTeam]

Yeah, sigh. There's not a chance I'm re-upping my 3 (way overpriced plus mandatory "contribution") season tickets if Haase isn't fired. That's not hyperbole or frustration in the moment. Even when they win I get an ulcer watching this team. I hate everything about how Haase coaches his teams, from the lack of screening to get shooters open to any perceptible offensive cohesion in general to the odd rotations to the fact that he seems to disenchant his more talented players. I'm just done. I'm also taking a refund for games I couldn't attend due to covid (F them and the inevitable "hey, how about a contribution"...I've contributed way more than enough), which may be the only silver lining of covid. I'll pass on the fire-or-I'm-done message to the person who contacts me to re-up, but I'm not such a bigwig that I have any delusions that that will have any meaning whatsoever. My only hope is that enough of us voting with our feet, plus the generally crappy team over enough years, will force a move. Btw, I've never heard one good thing about Muir from bigger-wigs than I am who are relatively "in the know"...

Hope springs eternal, but as regards the possibility of Muir firing Haase, don't hold your breath.

[FarmTeam]

Yeah, sigh. There's not a chance I'm re-upping my 3 (way overpriced plus mandatory "contribution") season tickets if Haase isn't fired. That's not hyperbole or frustration in the moment. Even when they win I get an ulcer watching this team. I hate everything about how Haase coaches his teams, from the lack of screening to get shooters open to any perceptible offensive cohesion in general to the odd rotations to the fact that he seems to disenchant his more talented players. I'm just done. I'm also taking a refund for games I couldn't attend due to covid (F them and the inevitable "hey, how about a contribution"...I've contributed way more than enough), which may be the only silver lining of covid. I'll pass on the fire-or-I'm-done message to the person who contacts me to re-up, but I'm not such a bigwig that I have any delusions that that will have any meaning whatsoever. My only hope is that enough of us voting with our feet, plus the generally crappy team over enough years, will force a move. Btw, I've never heard one good thing about Muir from bigger-wigs than I am who are relatively "in the know"...

Hope springs eternal, but as regards the possibility of Muir firing Haase, don't hold your breath.

[chrisk]

The first MBB game with fans this year will be the rescheduled Cal Game on Tuesday 2/1.

[chrisk]

The first MBB game with fans this year will be the rescheduled Cal Game on Tuesday 2/1.

[gailtate]

Stanford and UA may be in the same conference but Stanford is not even remotely in the same league as UA. A pathetic display of basketball by the Cardinal. Are there any players with serious athletic ability on Stanford's squad? Didn't look like it. Having Keefe out there makes it a 4 on 5 game on O. We have no athletic point guard; no rim protector; only Spencer Jones might make UA's team. No one in double figures? Are you kidding me? Haase, who seems like a good person, is not a good coach. Yet he'll probably get a contract extension from Muir. I used to be an ardent Stanford men's basketball fan and went to as many games as I could. Now, given the mediocre product on the floor, I've lost almost all interest.

Look on the bright side, you weren't allowed to go to the home games for January, anyway . . . 

The major sports programs at Stanford are a mess.  Contrary to most in this thread, I have more faith in Haase than I do in Shaw; however, I have little faith in Haase right now.

AZ is a far superior team filled with International mercenaries (though I guess all athletes at all schools can be put in that bucket).  I'm not sure I quite buy them as a legit FF team, but they are a LOT better than Stanford and most of the teams in the conference.  This L was expected, though method of beat-down was not.  It could not have helped that Maples was a cavernous morgue, though that certainly wasn't game-result changing.

Shaw's time came and went.  Haase's time never was. FB and MBB need renovation and Bernie needs to go.

[gailtate]

Stanford and UA may be in the same conference but Stanford is not even remotely in the same league as UA. A pathetic display of basketball by the Cardinal. Are there any players with serious athletic ability on Stanford's squad? Didn't look like it. Having Keefe out there makes it a 4 on 5 game on O. We have no athletic point guard; no rim protector; only Spencer Jones might make UA's team. No one in double figures? Are you kidding me? Haase, who seems like a good person, is not a good coach. Yet he'll probably get a contract extension from Muir. I used to be an ardent Stanford men's basketball fan and went to as many games as I could. Now, given the mediocre product on the floor, I've lost almost all interest.

Look on the bright side, you weren't allowed to go to the home games for January, anyway . . . 

The major sports programs at Stanford are a mess.  Contrary to most in this thread, I have more faith in Haase than I do in Shaw; however, I have little faith in Haase right now.

AZ is a far superior team filled with International mercenaries (though I guess all athletes at all schools can be put in that bucket).  I'm not sure I quite buy them as a legit FF team, but they are a LOT better than Stanford and most of the teams in the conference.  This L was expected, though method of beat-down was not.  It could not have helped that Maples was a cavernous morgue, though that certainly wasn't game-result changing.

Shaw's time came and went.  Haase's time never was. FB and MBB need renovation and Bernie needs to go.

[M T]

(Moved my reply from a FB to MBB thread)

This is just getting more and more revolting, and I am beginning to not care about football any more.  If it were not for all the other sports, I would say it is time to join the Ivies.

Cardinal men's basketball is already Ivy-League level -- at best.

It is hard to recognize sarcasm sometimes.  Maybe I'm being generous thinking you think what you said is cute.  Princeton has the highest NET rating of the Ivy League MBB teams and is well below Stanford.  Stanford has a respectable 3-3 record against Quad 1 while Princeton doesn't have any Quad 1 games.

Only 15 teams have played at least 6 quad 1 games and have at least an even record (plus 2 more at 3-2).  Only one other team has only 5 games that are Quad 3 or 4 (and Stanford has won all those).   After looking at their quad results of 3-3, 2-3, 0-0, 5-0,  I can't understand why their NET ranking is so low.  Wash. State is 30+ spots above them at 0-2, 1-2, 4-2, 5-1.   Weird.


Maybe Haase's main problem is that he doesn't schedule enough weak opponents for the benefit of the W-L record to please some fans.

[M T]

(Moved my reply from a FB to MBB thread)

This is just getting more and more revolting, and I am beginning to not care about football any more.  If it were not for all the other sports, I would say it is time to join the Ivies.

Cardinal men's basketball is already Ivy-League level -- at best.

It is hard to recognize sarcasm sometimes.  Maybe I'm being generous thinking you think what you said is cute.  Princeton has the highest NET rating of the Ivy League MBB teams and is well below Stanford.  Stanford has a respectable 3-3 record against Quad 1 while Princeton doesn't have any Quad 1 games.

Only 15 teams have played at least 6 quad 1 games and have at least an even record (plus 2 more at 3-2).  Only one other team has only 5 games that are Quad 3 or 4 (and Stanford has won all those).   After looking at their quad results of 3-3, 2-3, 0-0, 5-0,  I can't understand why their NET ranking is so low.  Wash. State is 30+ spots above them at 0-2, 1-2, 4-2, 5-1.   Weird.


Maybe Haase's main problem is that he doesn't schedule enough weak opponents for the benefit of the W-L record to please some fans.

[Goose]

Maybe Haase's main problem is that he doesn't schedule enough weak opponents for the benefit of the W-L record to please some fans.

I suspect it is more that up to now he hasn't won enough games to get invited to post-season play. When (if?) this bar is reached, the fans will then complain he gets beat in round 1. Fans tend to be a bit irrational, some more than others. However, he isn't there yet and it is rational to question his ability to get there. Of course, the question then becomes who would do better. Unfortunately there is nobody named "Anybody Else" applying for the job.

[Goose]

Maybe Haase's main problem is that he doesn't schedule enough weak opponents for the benefit of the W-L record to please some fans.

I suspect it is more that up to now he hasn't won enough games to get invited to post-season play. When (if?) this bar is reached, the fans will then complain he gets beat in round 1. Fans tend to be a bit irrational, some more than others. However, he isn't there yet and it is rational to question his ability to get there. Of course, the question then becomes who would do better. Unfortunately there is nobody named "Anybody Else" applying for the job.

[BostonCard]

Nah.  Honestly, this year, I’d be happy just making it to the NIT, let alone the tourney.  And if Haase could string together a few tournament appearances, I’d be delighted.  So far, he has zero.  Dawkins had one in eight years.  In fact, we’ve had one tournament appearance since 2008.

I was never one to criticize Monty for second round exits in the tournamen, and now I’d delight in even making it.

BC

[BostonCard]

Nah.  Honestly, this year, I’d be happy just making it to the NIT, let alone the tourney.  And if Haase could string together a few tournament appearances, I’d be delighted.  So far, he has zero.  Dawkins had one in eight years.  In fact, we’ve had one tournament appearance since 2008.

I was never one to criticize Monty for second round exits in the tournamen, and now I’d delight in even making it.

BC

[BillBradley]

(Moved my reply from a FB to MBB thread)

This is just getting more and more revolting, and I am beginning to not care about football any more.  If it were not for all the other sports, I would say it is time to join the Ivies.

Cardinal men's basketball is already Ivy-League level -- at best.

It is hard to recognize sarcasm sometimes.  Maybe I'm being generous thinking you think what you said is cute.  Princeton has the highest NET rating of the Ivy League MBB teams and is well below Stanford.  Stanford has a respectable 3-3 record against Quad 1 while Princeton doesn't have any Quad 1 games.

Only 15 teams have played at least 6 quad 1 games and have at least an even record (plus 2 more at 3-2).  Only one other team has only 5 games that are Quad 3 or 4 (and Stanford has won all those).   After looking at their quad results of 3-3, 2-3, 0-0, 5-0,  I can't understand why their NET ranking is so low.  Wash. State is 30+ spots above them at 0-2, 1-2, 4-2, 5-1.   Weird.


Maybe Haase's main problem is that he doesn't schedule enough weak opponents for the benefit of the W-L record to please some fans.

How about benchmarking the team's performance by looking at multiple rating systems? All these systems take into account strength of schedule in one way or another. Here's what they say about this year's team:

Massey has Stanford ranked 75th
KenPom has Stanford ranked 92nd
Team Rankings has Stanford ranked 97th

Here's KenPom's end of season rankings while Haase has been the head coach:
2017 - 102nd
2018 - 87th
2019 - 112th
2020 - 43rd
2021 - 57th
2022 - 92nd

Sorry, but after 6 years - Covid or not - this just isn't good enough.

[BillBradley]

(Moved my reply from a FB to MBB thread)

This is just getting more and more revolting, and I am beginning to not care about football any more.  If it were not for all the other sports, I would say it is time to join the Ivies.

Cardinal men's basketball is already Ivy-League level -- at best.

It is hard to recognize sarcasm sometimes.  Maybe I'm being generous thinking you think what you said is cute.  Princeton has the highest NET rating of the Ivy League MBB teams and is well below Stanford.  Stanford has a respectable 3-3 record against Quad 1 while Princeton doesn't have any Quad 1 games.

Only 15 teams have played at least 6 quad 1 games and have at least an even record (plus 2 more at 3-2).  Only one other team has only 5 games that are Quad 3 or 4 (and Stanford has won all those).   After looking at their quad results of 3-3, 2-3, 0-0, 5-0,  I can't understand why their NET ranking is so low.  Wash. State is 30+ spots above them at 0-2, 1-2, 4-2, 5-1.   Weird.


Maybe Haase's main problem is that he doesn't schedule enough weak opponents for the benefit of the W-L record to please some fans.

How about benchmarking the team's performance by looking at multiple rating systems? All these systems take into account strength of schedule in one way or another. Here's what they say about this year's team:

Massey has Stanford ranked 75th
KenPom has Stanford ranked 92nd
Team Rankings has Stanford ranked 97th

Here's KenPom's end of season rankings while Haase has been the head coach:
2017 - 102nd
2018 - 87th
2019 - 112th
2020 - 43rd
2021 - 57th
2022 - 92nd

Sorry, but after 6 years - Covid or not - this just isn't good enough.

[Spiny_Norman]

In 5 years as a head coach, Haase teams have finished 3rd (tied), 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th in the P12. They define the term "middle of the pack" which is where they appear headed again this year.

The program is not advancing, it's not sinking, it's just treading water.

In fact, the conference pecking order has been very consistent over the last 10 years or so. Arizona, UCLA, Oregon at the top. USC and Colorado just below, then everyone else. Occasionally, a school like ASU or Oregon State or UW will have a good season and break into the top 3, then fall back.

[Spiny_Norman]

In 5 years as a head coach, Haase teams have finished 3rd (tied), 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th in the P12. They define the term "middle of the pack" which is where they appear headed again this year.

The program is not advancing, it's not sinking, it's just treading water.

In fact, the conference pecking order has been very consistent over the last 10 years or so. Arizona, UCLA, Oregon at the top. USC and Colorado just below, then everyone else. Occasionally, a school like ASU or Oregon State or UW will have a good season and break into the top 3, then fall back.