[Phogge]

They beat a team who fired the coach before the next game.

They lost to a team who fired the coach before the next game.

Beat that Cincinnati, Georgia and MSU!

[Phogge]

They beat a team who fired the coach before the next game.

They lost to a team who fired the coach before the next game.

Beat that Cincinnati, Georgia and MSU!

[newguy]

well at least we'll be known for something.

[newguy]

well at least we'll be known for something.

[OutsiderFan]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

[OutsiderFan]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

[teejers1]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

Which begs a question:  can you be considered a good (let alone great) coach if the Washington State Cougars circa 2016-2021 have ownage on your team?  

To borrow from a poster on TOS:  "I dunno, man."

[teejers1]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

Which begs a question:  can you be considered a good (let alone great) coach if the Washington State Cougars circa 2016-2021 have ownage on your team?  

To borrow from a poster on TOS:  "I dunno, man."

[Papa John]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

Not true, or perhaps more accurate, not true yet. WSU beat Stanford eight times in a row from 1957-1964.

As for whether or not Shaw is a good/great coach if he has a five-game losing streak to WSU... During that same stretch--2016-2021--he has the following records against Pac-12 foes:

5-0 vs Oregon State
2-0 vs Arizona
4-1 vs Cal
4-2 vs UCLA
4-2 vs Oregon
2-1 vs Arizona State
3-2 vs Washington
3-3 vs USC
1-1 vs Utah
0-3 vs Colorado
0-5 vs Washington State

Winless versus Colorado and WSU since 2016 is obviously not great. But the rest of the results suggest "good" to me, since, overall, Shaw is 28-20 versus conference foes. And note that these results are post-2015, during the time when Stanford football inextricably and irreversibly sunk into the abyss of football mediocrity (or worse).

[Papa John]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

Not true, or perhaps more accurate, not true yet. WSU beat Stanford eight times in a row from 1957-1964.

As for whether or not Shaw is a good/great coach if he has a five-game losing streak to WSU... During that same stretch--2016-2021--he has the following records against Pac-12 foes:

5-0 vs Oregon State
2-0 vs Arizona
4-1 vs Cal
4-2 vs UCLA
4-2 vs Oregon
2-1 vs Arizona State
3-2 vs Washington
3-3 vs USC
1-1 vs Utah
0-3 vs Colorado
0-5 vs Washington State

Winless versus Colorado and WSU since 2016 is obviously not great. But the rest of the results suggest "good" to me, since, overall, Shaw is 28-20 versus conference foes. And note that these results are post-2015, during the time when Stanford football inextricably and irreversibly sunk into the abyss of football mediocrity (or worse).

[OutsiderFan]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

Not true, or perhaps more accurate, not true yet. 

Should have known. I trusted what I heard on the game broadcast to be correct, for two reasons.

1. I figured an ESPN broadcaster would have his facts straight.
2. It seems about right to me that Stanford couldn't have lost more than 6 times in a row to the freaking Coogs.

Should have verified before posting...

[OutsiderFan]

They also set an all-time losing streak to the juggernaut Washington State Cougars.

Not true, or perhaps more accurate, not true yet. 

Should have known. I trusted what I heard on the game broadcast to be correct, for two reasons.

1. I figured an ESPN broadcaster would have his facts straight.
2. It seems about right to me that Stanford couldn't have lost more than 6 times in a row to the freaking Coogs.

Should have verified before posting...

[lex24]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

[lex24]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

[gailtate]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

[gailtate]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

[murky]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

That's absurd.  To casual observers of Stanford football Harbaugh is ancient history.  Maybe remembered for the biggest upset, and "what's your deal".  

Shaw is Stanford's winningest coach with an overall record to be proud of.

[murky]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

That's absurd.  To casual observers of Stanford football Harbaugh is ancient history.  Maybe remembered for the biggest upset, and "what's your deal".  

Shaw is Stanford's winningest coach with an overall record to be proud of.

[Phogge]

Long after I forget Shaw I will remember the coach who made Stanford come down from the cross.

And in 2025 the Cougs will win their ninth in a row. Stanford has long had a Cougar problem. But there will be a bunch on Big Game wins along the way.

The '71 team had three hickup losses, all easily winnable. Probably the best Stanford defense since 1953. Three shutouts. Of course the only conference loss was to the Cougs on a last play FG.

[Phogge]

Long after I forget Shaw I will remember the coach who made Stanford come down from the cross.

And in 2025 the Cougs will win their ninth in a row. Stanford has long had a Cougar problem. But there will be a bunch on Big Game wins along the way.

The '71 team had three hickup losses, all easily winnable. Probably the best Stanford defense since 1953. Three shutouts. Of course the only conference loss was to the Cougs on a last play FG.

[BobK]

Guess I’m the only one who loves going to Rose Bowls

[BobK]

Guess I’m the only one who loves going to Rose Bowls

[gailtate]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

That's absurd.  To casual observers of Stanford football Harbaugh is ancient history.  Maybe remembered for the biggest upset, and "what's your deal".  

Shaw is Stanford's winningest coach with an overall record to be proud of.

Hardly absurd. And you sound like loyalist, which is understandable. Still, don't underestimate the memory of those "casual observers". I suspect history will be kind to Shaw but only to the degree that the next several years see Stanford consistently above .500 and in big-time bowl conversations. Hey, it's a cruel world and college football, now more than ever, is a performance enterprise, as in what-have-you-done-for-me-lately. Particularly when you're salaried at the Shaw level.

[gailtate]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

That's absurd.  To casual observers of Stanford football Harbaugh is ancient history.  Maybe remembered for the biggest upset, and "what's your deal".  

Shaw is Stanford's winningest coach with an overall record to be proud of.

Hardly absurd. And you sound like loyalist, which is understandable. Still, don't underestimate the memory of those "casual observers". I suspect history will be kind to Shaw but only to the degree that the next several years see Stanford consistently above .500 and in big-time bowl conversations. Hey, it's a cruel world and college football, now more than ever, is a performance enterprise, as in what-have-you-done-for-me-lately. Particularly when you're salaried at the Shaw level.

[Goose]

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.


So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

I think that Shaw did in fact try to retain the blueprint as long as he could. Remember the yelling on the Cardboard about slamming CMac and Love into "stacked" boxes? One problem is we have not been able to recruit the personnel to play that style of football. High Schools are playing more spread offenses and as a result the ground and pound guys aren't there, both on the line and in the backfield. We also haven't had a Toby Gerhart, Stephan Taylor, or even a Ty Gaffney running the ball. Shaw kept trying, but it just wasn't working. He evolved not because he wanted to but because he had to.

It has been said our recruiting on the OL has not been as high quality as it was in years past. I don't think that is true. We have recruited several highly ranked players on the OL that either didn't work out at all or never lived up to expectations. Many of the Harbaugh era linemen were not particularly highly ranked recruits as I recall it. They just played with an edge. Right now, our OL appears to be very passive. This is a culture thing, but it is pretty clear to me that with the offensive lines we have had since 2015 playing smash-mouth football wasn't going to work. It may be we have not recruited enough OL players to allow us to sort out who can actually play. Whatever we are doing, it isn't working.

It is probably true with the OL play we are getting right now, no matter what philosophy the offense has, we are in trouble. With 190 lb running backs we aren't moving many piles, either. We are reverting to the Stanford of old, where a good QB and a few good receivers give us a puncher's chance to win. I am equally sure that Shaw knows this, and really doesn't much like it. He is on his third OL coach in recent years. I think that says something. I agree that Stanford needs an effective OL that can both pass block and run block. I think that in today's game we need to throw the ball more than we did in the "golden" past. However, Harbaugh's greatest successes (and also Shaw's) happened when we could dictate the tempo. You can do that several ways, including throwing the ball, but we need to do it.

[Goose]

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.


So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

I think that Shaw did in fact try to retain the blueprint as long as he could. Remember the yelling on the Cardboard about slamming CMac and Love into "stacked" boxes? One problem is we have not been able to recruit the personnel to play that style of football. High Schools are playing more spread offenses and as a result the ground and pound guys aren't there, both on the line and in the backfield. We also haven't had a Toby Gerhart, Stephan Taylor, or even a Ty Gaffney running the ball. Shaw kept trying, but it just wasn't working. He evolved not because he wanted to but because he had to.

It has been said our recruiting on the OL has not been as high quality as it was in years past. I don't think that is true. We have recruited several highly ranked players on the OL that either didn't work out at all or never lived up to expectations. Many of the Harbaugh era linemen were not particularly highly ranked recruits as I recall it. They just played with an edge. Right now, our OL appears to be very passive. This is a culture thing, but it is pretty clear to me that with the offensive lines we have had since 2015 playing smash-mouth football wasn't going to work. It may be we have not recruited enough OL players to allow us to sort out who can actually play. Whatever we are doing, it isn't working.

It is probably true with the OL play we are getting right now, no matter what philosophy the offense has, we are in trouble. With 190 lb running backs we aren't moving many piles, either. We are reverting to the Stanford of old, where a good QB and a few good receivers give us a puncher's chance to win. I am equally sure that Shaw knows this, and really doesn't much like it. He is on his third OL coach in recent years. I think that says something. I agree that Stanford needs an effective OL that can both pass block and run block. I think that in today's game we need to throw the ball more than we did in the "golden" past. However, Harbaugh's greatest successes (and also Shaw's) happened when we could dictate the tempo. You can do that several ways, including throwing the ball, but we need to do it.

[PAsportsfan]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

That's absurd.  To casual observers of Stanford football Harbaugh is ancient history.  Maybe remembered for the biggest upset, and "what's your deal".  

Shaw is Stanford's winningest coach with an overall record to be proud of.

That's a joke, right?

You can't be serious.

[PAsportsfan]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

---

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

Thoughtful piece. Shaw's in a precarious, albeit well-compensated, spot right now. If he continues to flounder and tread water at .500 or below and the NY6 bowls become things of Stanford's past, he will for all but his loyal fans be remembered as The Guy Who Slip-Streamed Harbaugh. Cruel or downright unfair as that may seem to some people, that's just the way it is. In the next 3-5 seasons, this should play out and we'll see what a great--or not so great--HC he really is in the brave new world of college ball. IMHO, a return to glory feels like a long-shot for this coach.

That's absurd.  To casual observers of Stanford football Harbaugh is ancient history.  Maybe remembered for the biggest upset, and "what's your deal".  

Shaw is Stanford's winningest coach with an overall record to be proud of.

That's a joke, right?

You can't be serious.

[teejers1]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

1.  Stanford has never been more of an independent draw - as the "it" university that everyone wants to attend - than it has been during Shaw's tenure (which, btw, has nothing to do with Shaw);

2.  Shaw was given what no Stanford coach in history ever enjoyed:  a Top 5 football program, loaded with players, including on the defensive side.  Combine that with #1, above, and you had quite an incredible draw to Stanford, even for Football First Studs.

3.  Shaw was able to recruit in his early tenure off the program status handed off by Harbs.  Having said that, I think Shaw has generally been an above average recruiter for Stanford (edit: by historic standards, not by Peak Stanford Recruiting standards, which as noted, occurred late Harbs, very early Shaw).

4.  Shaw has been a below average game coach - underperforming to talent on O (consistently, imo) and costing games here and there.  

5.  As #4 has been more widely recognized beyond those close followers who sounded the alarm early, it has impacted 3 (recruiting).  And lesser recruiting + below average game coaching is a bad combo that will show up in the W/L column (which we have seen and are seeing).  We are getting a better picture of Shaw at sea level - i.e., what he is as a coach heading a program where everything about the program is his, without any lingering players or goodwill from prior regime - and it looks an awful lot like The Old Days.

6.  Lex, your statement about the need to recruit stud OL is true and always has been.  That is the foundation of any good offense.  However, your insistence on ground and pound is such a surrender attitude.  Get the OL, get the QB, get the TE, and your RBs and WRs don't even have to be exceptional to have a good, varied offense.  But Stanford should have no problem recruiting exceptional players at virtually all offensive positions, with possible exception of WRs with elite speed.  But you don't need that to have an excellent O, though it certainly helps.  Walters, Pitts, Easy Ed, Harris, etc. etc.  There are a litany of very good WRs at Stanford who did not have elite foot speed.

7.  Go back and watch the 1990 or 1992 games against ND; watch the 2001 game at Oregon (recently aired on P12 Network); watch Boise State the year it beat Oklahoma.  Stanford doesn't have to be Heavy/Plodding O to be successful.  But Stanford does need an O that is well-conceived and plays off itself to scheme people open.  We haven't seen an offense like that in years and years and years.

8.  Finally, your assumption that any good coach/up-and-comer would leave is based on the old model, when Stanford was "not Nebraska."  $2-$3M/year can get them here; and $4-$5M/season is a sticky comp level.  (Indeed, the current guy would have easily stayed for that amount, but Bernie decided to be a "hard bargainer" and give him significantly more than that).  So the old notion that Stanford can't retain an excellent coach is invalid, imo.

P.S. One final add: the thing Shaw has going for him now is that the Pac 12 is weak - perhaps as weak as it has ever been. Thus, it's possible to get Ws without having a good team. I mean, take the rest of the schedule. They're all losable; but they're all winnable, too (with ND a big stretch on that front . . . and perhaps Utah, too). But UW, Cal, and OSU . . . eminently winnable because they're mediocre squads, too.

[teejers1]

Asked before, I’ll ask again - if not Shaw, who?  Stanford is not going to get a “name” to replace him.  So it’s from the staff or a so called up and comer. Like Scott Frost was. Or Wilcox.  Not so much, today.  Which is the problem looking for “up and comers.”  

It’s not just a matter of how “good” is Shaw.  It’s can you hire better.  Crapshoot to say the least. And if you do strike gold, how long does he stay.

I don’t get the feeling that there is any emphasis on Football from either the AD or Admin.  The newer recruiting and transfer rules hurt Stanford.  Shaw needs to up his recruiting game, no doubt.  Depth is non existent. And the talent level has dropped. 

Not a good situation at this point. 

Shaws not going anywhere.  And he deserves some time to try and turn this back around.  He’s earned that. How long is anyone’s guess.  

Shaking things up within his assistants is another option, of course.  He’s never done that.  To a point I admire his loyalty.  But only to a point.  

At the end of the day, I think Shaw needs to figure out how to get back to “intellectual brutality”. Or whatever they called it.  If Stanford is going to win consistently, it starts in the trenches.  Otherwise, they may have a few Oregon wins sprinkled in.  But they will not be anything other than a team flirting with .500 and the occasional 8-4.  In other words, what Stanford has historically been. 

McKee gives them a chance in games this year.  Having a top flight QB generally will.  But it doesn’t make up for a lack of being physical and a lack of team speed.  They can and should recruit hard to solve the former. Speed is always harder for Stanford.

So if it’s me, I go back to the old blueprint. Recruit and aim towards power football. And stick to it. It’s not sexy.  But it’s the only way, IMO they can consistently win.

1.  Stanford has never been more of an independent draw - as the "it" university that everyone wants to attend - than it has been during Shaw's tenure (which, btw, has nothing to do with Shaw);

2.  Shaw was given what no Stanford coach in history ever enjoyed:  a Top 5 football program, loaded with players, including on the defensive side.  Combine that with #1, above, and you had quite an incredible draw to Stanford, even for Football First Studs.

3.  Shaw was able to recruit in his early tenure off the program status handed off by Harbs.  Having said that, I think Shaw has generally been an above average recruiter for Stanford (edit: by historic standards, not by Peak Stanford Recruiting standards, which as noted, occurred late Harbs, very early Shaw).

4.  Shaw has been a below average game coach - underperforming to talent on O (consistently, imo) and costing games here and there.  

5.  As #4 has been more widely recognized beyond those close followers who sounded the alarm early, it has impacted 3 (recruiting).  And lesser recruiting + below average game coaching is a bad combo that will show up in the W/L column (which we have seen and are seeing).  We are getting a better picture of Shaw at sea level - i.e., what he is as a coach heading a program where everything about the program is his, without any lingering players or goodwill from prior regime - and it looks an awful lot like The Old Days.

6.  Lex, your statement about the need to recruit stud OL is true and always has been.  That is the foundation of any good offense.  However, your insistence on ground and pound is such a surrender attitude.  Get the OL, get the QB, get the TE, and your RBs and WRs don't even have to be exceptional to have a good, varied offense.  But Stanford should have no problem recruiting exceptional players at virtually all offensive positions, with possible exception of WRs with elite speed.  But you don't need that to have an excellent O, though it certainly helps.  Walters, Pitts, Easy Ed, Harris, etc. etc.  There are a litany of very good WRs at Stanford who did not have elite foot speed.

7.  Go back and watch the 1990 or 1992 games against ND; watch the 2001 game at Oregon (recently aired on P12 Network); watch Boise State the year it beat Oklahoma.  Stanford doesn't have to be Heavy/Plodding O to be successful.  But Stanford does need an O that is well-conceived and plays off itself to scheme people open.  We haven't seen an offense like that in years and years and years.

8.  Finally, your assumption that any good coach/up-and-comer would leave is based on the old model, when Stanford was "not Nebraska."  $2-$3M/year can get them here; and $4-$5M/season is a sticky comp level.  (Indeed, the current guy would have easily stayed for that amount, but Bernie decided to be a "hard bargainer" and give him significantly more than that).  So the old notion that Stanford can't retain an excellent coach is invalid, imo.

P.S. One final add: the thing Shaw has going for him now is that the Pac 12 is weak - perhaps as weak as it has ever been. Thus, it's possible to get Ws without having a good team. I mean, take the rest of the schedule. They're all losable; but they're all winnable, too (with ND a big stretch on that front . . . and perhaps Utah, too). But UW, Cal, and OSU . . . eminently winnable because they're mediocre squads, too.

[PAsportsfan]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

[PAsportsfan]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

[teejers1]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

It will take some magic - as in Shaw completely scrapping his old approach and making one or two brilliant hires (which also would buck history).

But perhaps the most discouraging thing is that, once again, Stanford football was relegated to irrelevance by Week 4 or 5.  I mean, even on this site, with UW game coming up - an eminently winnable game for the Cardinal - the only thread I see is the customary "pick the score" one.  Maybe things gain steam between now and Saturday, but in general, malaise appears to have set in.  BTW, not blaming anyone - hell, I feel the same way.  Just making an observation.

[teejers1]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

It will take some magic - as in Shaw completely scrapping his old approach and making one or two brilliant hires (which also would buck history).

But perhaps the most discouraging thing is that, once again, Stanford football was relegated to irrelevance by Week 4 or 5.  I mean, even on this site, with UW game coming up - an eminently winnable game for the Cardinal - the only thread I see is the customary "pick the score" one.  Maybe things gain steam between now and Saturday, but in general, malaise appears to have set in.  BTW, not blaming anyone - hell, I feel the same way.  Just making an observation.

[82lsju]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

It will take some magic - as in Shaw completely scrapping his old approach and making one or two brilliant hires (which also would buck history).

But perhaps the most discouraging thing is that, once again, Stanford football was relegated to irrelevance by Week 4 or 5.  I mean, even on this site, with UW game coming up - an eminently winnable game for the Cardinal - the only thread I see is the customary "pick the score" one.  Maybe things gain steam between now and Saturday, but in general, malaise appears to have set in.  BTW, not blaming anyone - hell, I feel the same way.  Just making an observation.

I would expect things to pick up after the press conference today when we get a better idea of who may be available to play this week

[82lsju]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

It will take some magic - as in Shaw completely scrapping his old approach and making one or two brilliant hires (which also would buck history).

But perhaps the most discouraging thing is that, once again, Stanford football was relegated to irrelevance by Week 4 or 5.  I mean, even on this site, with UW game coming up - an eminently winnable game for the Cardinal - the only thread I see is the customary "pick the score" one.  Maybe things gain steam between now and Saturday, but in general, malaise appears to have set in.  BTW, not blaming anyone - hell, I feel the same way.  Just making an observation.

I would expect things to pick up after the press conference today when we get a better idea of who may be available to play this week

[gailtate]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

It will take some magic - as in Shaw completely scrapping his old approach and making one or two brilliant hires (which also would buck history).

But perhaps the most discouraging thing is that, once again, Stanford football was relegated to irrelevance by Week 4 or 5.  I mean, even on this site, with UW game coming up - an eminently winnable game for the Cardinal - the only thread I see is the customary "pick the score" one.  Maybe things gain steam between now and Saturday, but in general, malaise appears to have set in.  BTW, not blaming anyone - hell, I feel the same way.  Just making an observation.

I would expect things to pick up after the press conference today when we get a better idea of who may be available to play this week

Coin-flip at this moment. Winnable game but so it was in Pullman. This week's roster is the telltale.

[gailtate]

What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

It will take some magic - as in Shaw completely scrapping his old approach and making one or two brilliant hires (which also would buck history).

But perhaps the most discouraging thing is that, once again, Stanford football was relegated to irrelevance by Week 4 or 5.  I mean, even on this site, with UW game coming up - an eminently winnable game for the Cardinal - the only thread I see is the customary "pick the score" one.  Maybe things gain steam between now and Saturday, but in general, malaise appears to have set in.  BTW, not blaming anyone - hell, I feel the same way.  Just making an observation.

I would expect things to pick up after the press conference today when we get a better idea of who may be available to play this week

Coin-flip at this moment. Winnable game but so it was in Pullman. This week's roster is the telltale.

[fullmetal]

teejers has my votes on all points, as usual.  I will add that Shaw fumbled the athletic trainer HR situation from 2017-2018, and I would guess that resulted in a lot of injuries that had long tail effects for many years.  The loss of Turley seems to have coincided with a lack of toughness on the OL.  We need a S&C coach who can teach the OL how to blow opposing defenses off the ball every snap.  The OL has to guarantee three yards every run just from sheer explosiveness.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

Shawvita did it with KJ Costello's playbook, shifting to a pass-first attack.  It's slow, but the learning process is there.  I hope the learning happens faster and faster.  I like Shaw, but I don't like his results or his process as of late.

[fullmetal]

teejers has my votes on all points, as usual.  I will add that Shaw fumbled the athletic trainer HR situation from 2017-2018, and I would guess that resulted in a lot of injuries that had long tail effects for many years.  The loss of Turley seems to have coincided with a lack of toughness on the OL.  We need a S&C coach who can teach the OL how to blow opposing defenses off the ball every snap.  The OL has to guarantee three yards every run just from sheer explosiveness.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

Shawvita did it with KJ Costello's playbook, shifting to a pass-first attack.  It's slow, but the learning process is there.  I hope the learning happens faster and faster.  I like Shaw, but I don't like his results or his process as of late.