[Phogge]

PI’s should be called the same way in the fourth Q like they were called in the first.

Strikes in the ninth inning should be strikes in the first.

Basically most umps and most football officials are like Cal in Marty’s posts. They suck.

[Phogge]

PI’s should be called the same way in the fourth Q like they were called in the first.

Strikes in the ninth inning should be strikes in the first.

Basically most umps and most football officials are like Cal in Marty’s posts. They suck.

[martyup]

PI’s should be called the same way in the fourth Q like they were called in the first.

Strikes in the ninth inning should be strikes in the first.

Basically most umps and most football officials are like Cal in Marty’s posts. They suck.

Agreed, but allowing defenders to get away with PI on a regular basis doesn't mean that a PI call is unfair when it is called.

[martyup]

PI’s should be called the same way in the fourth Q like they were called in the first.

Strikes in the ninth inning should be strikes in the first.

Basically most umps and most football officials are like Cal in Marty’s posts. They suck.

Agreed, but allowing defenders to get away with PI on a regular basis doesn't mean that a PI call is unfair when it is called.

[Spiny_Norman]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

[Spiny_Norman]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

[martyup]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

[martyup]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

[CowboyIndian]

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

I only saw the highlights after the game (having been an eyewitness earlier), but both Gilmore and Dave Flemming seemed to be going overboard to avoid demonstrating their Stanford roots.

And, in the replay of the holding call, it seems fairly obvious the Duck defender was hanging on to Humphreys and impeding his progress to where the ball was going to be. I am really pissed at the universal narrative for the game, which is that the refs handed it to us. Oh yes, way down on the list is Cristobal's unfathomable departure from the run in their last possession and in OT. IMO, we took what they gave us and made the most of it.

[CowboyIndian]

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

I only saw the highlights after the game (having been an eyewitness earlier), but both Gilmore and Dave Flemming seemed to be going overboard to avoid demonstrating their Stanford roots.

And, in the replay of the holding call, it seems fairly obvious the Duck defender was hanging on to Humphreys and impeding his progress to where the ball was going to be. I am really pissed at the universal narrative for the game, which is that the refs handed it to us. Oh yes, way down on the list is Cristobal's unfathomable departure from the run in their last possession and in OT. IMO, we took what they gave us and made the most of it.

[CTcard]

Gilmore kept saying that the PI call at the end of regulation was unfair because the refs had been allowing such contact throughout the game. 

The call at the end of regulation was defensive holding.
For many purposes that makes no difference, but if you are rewatching to decide what you think should have been called it means you should look at the early contact rather than at the end of the play.

[CTcard]

Gilmore kept saying that the PI call at the end of regulation was unfair because the refs had been allowing such contact throughout the game. 

The call at the end of regulation was defensive holding.
For many purposes that makes no difference, but if you are rewatching to decide what you think should have been called it means you should look at the early contact rather than at the end of the play.

[Langdude]

Did anyone see the very last play of the game, when Brown was taken down by the pursuing defender (not sure who it was) right after he threw the ball? I wonder if that could have been called roughing the passer...

-m.

[Langdude]

Did anyone see the very last play of the game, when Brown was taken down by the pursuing defender (not sure who it was) right after he threw the ball? I wonder if that could have been called roughing the passer...

-m.

[CardinalSagehen]

Did anyone see the very last play of the game, when Brown was taken down by the pursuing defender (not sure who it was) right after he threw the ball? I wonder if that could have been called roughing the passer...

-m.

I did see that, and I wondered the same.  IIRC, I think it was probably Gabe Reid in pursuit.  He went low, diving for Brown's ankles as he chased him. The tackle occurred right after the throw, but Reid could not have known or stopped. In addition, there was a significant risk that Brown was trying to scramble for the first down. I don't think it would have been the right call to flag that, but it was certainly possible that a flag might be thrown.

[CardinalSagehen]

Did anyone see the very last play of the game, when Brown was taken down by the pursuing defender (not sure who it was) right after he threw the ball? I wonder if that could have been called roughing the passer...

-m.

I did see that, and I wondered the same.  IIRC, I think it was probably Gabe Reid in pursuit.  He went low, diving for Brown's ankles as he chased him. The tackle occurred right after the throw, but Reid could not have known or stopped. In addition, there was a significant risk that Brown was trying to scramble for the first down. I don't think it would have been the right call to flag that, but it was certainly possible that a flag might be thrown.

[TriangleTree]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

I don't even know why it's controversial. There's an angle that clearly shows Wright grabbing and wrestling Humphries out of the way a second or so before the ball gets there. It seemed clear to me that Oregon would rather get a penalty than losing out to a taller and more physical receiver (which was the right decision given that it amounts to a replay with the ball so close to the goal line). 
The next play showed that they perhaps should have tried it one more time...

[TriangleTree]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

I don't even know why it's controversial. There's an angle that clearly shows Wright grabbing and wrestling Humphries out of the way a second or so before the ball gets there. It seemed clear to me that Oregon would rather get a penalty than losing out to a taller and more physical receiver (which was the right decision given that it amounts to a replay with the ball so close to the goal line). 
The next play showed that they perhaps should have tried it one more time...

[teejers1]

Teejers, you will enjoy the fact that (unless I missed one) we didn't have a single delay of game (or wasted time out) in the game.

On more serious matters, it is worth noting that the team executed the two minute drill at the end of the game to perfection, ending with five shots at the end zone and connecting on one, last, untimed down.

And your bugaboo, the Wildcat, scored.

BC

Well we did have I think 6 false start penalties, but they were assisted so maybe that doesn't count?

1.  I think the play management for Stanford was very good, n/w/s false starts.  I mean, even if Oregon is barking out "Move!" to time their shift to coincide to right before when they think the ball might be snapped, that old saying keeps popping up:  "Fool me once . . . "

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  I didn't love the McKee keeper going left (it looked clunkier than his more usual keeper going right - but it had element of surprise) and the clock burnage that accompanied it, but he, too, could have thrown it OOB (I think) when nothing was there.

2.  Having said that, I disagree that 2 minute offense run to perfection.  It was greatly aided by Oregon mistakes, so it's hard to say Stanford was perfect there.  And Stanford was fortunate to get the untimed down, imo.

3.  I don't have a problem with the wildcat, per se.  I agree with whoever said we need to throw out of it once to keep folks honest.  I also don't like the Sanders package when the WR/RB is in motion in front and there is the fake-handoff (every time) to the guy in motion.  The one we saw Saturday was just the Sanders catch and pick a hole among area of extra blockers, which has been okay (not great).  And this season, my complaint on the Sanders back-to-back against Vandy was jus the whole sequence.  (And after being stoned on 3 tries, I'd have kicked the FG . . . but whatever).

P.S. Gilmore and Flemming probably were overcompensating on commentary so as not to seem too biased in favor of their alma mater.  You sometimes see that when Herbstreit calls tOSU games, too.

[teejers1]

Teejers, you will enjoy the fact that (unless I missed one) we didn't have a single delay of game (or wasted time out) in the game.

On more serious matters, it is worth noting that the team executed the two minute drill at the end of the game to perfection, ending with five shots at the end zone and connecting on one, last, untimed down.

And your bugaboo, the Wildcat, scored.

BC

Well we did have I think 6 false start penalties, but they were assisted so maybe that doesn't count?

1.  I think the play management for Stanford was very good, n/w/s false starts.  I mean, even if Oregon is barking out "Move!" to time their shift to coincide to right before when they think the ball might be snapped, that old saying keeps popping up:  "Fool me once . . . "

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  I didn't love the McKee keeper going left (it looked clunkier than his more usual keeper going right - but it had element of surprise) and the clock burnage that accompanied it, but he, too, could have thrown it OOB (I think) when nothing was there.

2.  Having said that, I disagree that 2 minute offense run to perfection.  It was greatly aided by Oregon mistakes, so it's hard to say Stanford was perfect there.  And Stanford was fortunate to get the untimed down, imo.

3.  I don't have a problem with the wildcat, per se.  I agree with whoever said we need to throw out of it once to keep folks honest.  I also don't like the Sanders package when the WR/RB is in motion in front and there is the fake-handoff (every time) to the guy in motion.  The one we saw Saturday was just the Sanders catch and pick a hole among area of extra blockers, which has been okay (not great).  And this season, my complaint on the Sanders back-to-back against Vandy was jus the whole sequence.  (And after being stoned on 3 tries, I'd have kicked the FG . . . but whatever).

P.S. Gilmore and Flemming probably were overcompensating on commentary so as not to seem too biased in favor of their alma mater.  You sometimes see that when Herbstreit calls tOSU games, too.

[Papa John]

<snip>
Also, there was the fourth down call (not the decision to go for it, but the offensive playcall) at the end of the first half.  The game is very different if they score a TD there.

Just saw the "Pac-12 in 60" broadcast of the game last night. The running back was WIDE OPEN to the right with a blocker. Maybe one Stanford defender in the vicinity. The QB made the wrong decision.

So the play call by Cristobal was fine. The problem was execution.

Just found a video on YouTube, so you can watch the play here: https://youtu.be/qbH4J5DsbZI?t=3811 (not sure how long this video will be up)

I know that the announcers go on about the lack of wisdom running shotgun on 4th and goal from the 1, but you can see Verdell jumping up and down in anguish when Brown didn't pitch the ball to him. That would have been a walk-in TD for Oregon.

[Papa John]

<snip>
Also, there was the fourth down call (not the decision to go for it, but the offensive playcall) at the end of the first half.  The game is very different if they score a TD there.

Just saw the "Pac-12 in 60" broadcast of the game last night. The running back was WIDE OPEN to the right with a blocker. Maybe one Stanford defender in the vicinity. The QB made the wrong decision.

So the play call by Cristobal was fine. The problem was execution.

Just found a video on YouTube, so you can watch the play here: https://youtu.be/qbH4J5DsbZI?t=3811 (not sure how long this video will be up)

I know that the announcers go on about the lack of wisdom running shotgun on 4th and goal from the 1, but you can see Verdell jumping up and down in anguish when Brown didn't pitch the ball to him. That would have been a walk-in TD for Oregon.

[needle]

I'm 95% sure it was Tristan Sinclair chasing Oregon QB Brown on the last play of overtime. He started the play as basically a down lineman, pretty unusual or at least something I hadn't noticed before.

[needle]

I'm 95% sure it was Tristan Sinclair chasing Oregon QB Brown on the last play of overtime. He started the play as basically a down lineman, pretty unusual or at least something I hadn't noticed before.

[old spanish trail]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

Sorry, Marty, Watched it twice and don't see Gilmore over the moon re Oregon at all. Great Gifs, btw.

[old spanish trail]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

Sorry, Marty, Watched it twice and don't see Gilmore over the moon re Oregon at all. Great Gifs, btw.

[BostonCard]

I didn't love the McKee keeper going left (it looked clunkier than his more usual keeper going right - but it had element of surprise) and the clock burnage that accompanied it, but he, too, could have thrown it OOB (I think) when nothing was there.

There was no clock burnage because we called time out so there was a time out burnage.  To the extent you might object with the call, it is that by burning our last time out, Oregon knew we needed to throw the ball in subsequent downs (also, it meant that if McKee got sacked, it was game over).  One might have decided to pass on first and second down, when Oregon would have had to at least be cognizant of the idea we could run; then run (or pass) on third down, calling a time out if we needed it, and again run or pass on fourth down.

BC

[BostonCard]

I didn't love the McKee keeper going left (it looked clunkier than his more usual keeper going right - but it had element of surprise) and the clock burnage that accompanied it, but he, too, could have thrown it OOB (I think) when nothing was there.

There was no clock burnage because we called time out so there was a time out burnage.  To the extent you might object with the call, it is that by burning our last time out, Oregon knew we needed to throw the ball in subsequent downs (also, it meant that if McKee got sacked, it was game over).  One might have decided to pass on first and second down, when Oregon would have had to at least be cognizant of the idea we could run; then run (or pass) on third down, calling a time out if we needed it, and again run or pass on fourth down.

BC

[CTcard]

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  

Why not?

While I don't know that I blame Shaw in particular, I do blame the coaching and preparation of West. A QB in that situation has to know that unless there is a very clear path towards the sideline and a decent gain, one can simply not hold onto the ball and scramble. And its the coaching staff's job that their QBs know that.

The second issue is that was probably the best place to use the remaining TO. Maybe there would be another tackle inbounds without a first down, maybe not. But there is no reason that possible future scenario would take more time than this actual situation.

Where I agree in holding back on blame is that it wasn't the most egregious error ever and the execution of getting McKee in and the next play off was quite good. I do wonder why Oregon didn't take the chance to substitute and burn a little more clock.

[CTcard]

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  

Why not?

While I don't know that I blame Shaw in particular, I do blame the coaching and preparation of West. A QB in that situation has to know that unless there is a very clear path towards the sideline and a decent gain, one can simply not hold onto the ball and scramble. And its the coaching staff's job that their QBs know that.

The second issue is that was probably the best place to use the remaining TO. Maybe there would be another tackle inbounds without a first down, maybe not. But there is no reason that possible future scenario would take more time than this actual situation.

Where I agree in holding back on blame is that it wasn't the most egregious error ever and the execution of getting McKee in and the next play off was quite good. I do wonder why Oregon didn't take the chance to substitute and burn a little more clock.

[SamuelMcF]

I'm 95% sure it was Tristan Sinclair chasing Oregon QB Brown on the last play of overtime. He started the play as basically a down lineman, pretty unusual or at least something I hadn't noticed before.

That was Gabe Reid from his usual down OLB position. Sinclair was not on the field for the play; Miezan and Damuni were the ILBs.

[SamuelMcF]

I'm 95% sure it was Tristan Sinclair chasing Oregon QB Brown on the last play of overtime. He started the play as basically a down lineman, pretty unusual or at least something I hadn't noticed before.

That was Gabe Reid from his usual down OLB position. Sinclair was not on the field for the play; Miezan and Damuni were the ILBs.

[SamuelMcF]

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  

Why not?

While I don't know that I blame Shaw in particular, I do blame the coaching and preparation of West. A QB in that situation has to know that unless there is a very clear path towards the sideline and a decent gain, one can simply not hold onto the ball and scramble. And its the coaching staff's job that their QBs know that.

I doubt any amount of preparation can help a player who instantly goes wide-eyed and forgets how to play QB as soon as he's under the lights. There can definitely be blame for recruiting and signing said player way too early, however.

[SamuelMcF]

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  

Why not?

While I don't know that I blame Shaw in particular, I do blame the coaching and preparation of West. A QB in that situation has to know that unless there is a very clear path towards the sideline and a decent gain, one can simply not hold onto the ball and scramble. And its the coaching staff's job that their QBs know that.

I doubt any amount of preparation can help a player who instantly goes wide-eyed and forgets how to play QB as soon as he's under the lights. There can definitely be blame for recruiting and signing said player way too early, however.

[AlbanyCardinal]

My only beef is that McKee wasn't designated the starter for fall camp (let alone the start of the season). It was obvious to everyone that one QB didn't have a high ceiling and the other did. It was inevitable, in the minds of anyone who cares about Stanford football, that McKee would eventually become the starter; so give him as many reps as possible with the first team, to give this team the best chance to hit the ground running against KSU. Season doesn't start second week of the season, and Shaw and staff had a year's worth of data to make this decision. It's why he's the highest-paid employee at Stanford, to make that kind of decision. Every time Stanford has to replace a graduated starting QB, I grit my teeth. 

I'm really impressed with Shaw as a coach. His coaching and teams continue to surprise me. But I hate, absolutely loathe, QB rotation during the season to pick your starter.

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  

Why not?

While I don't know that I blame Shaw in particular, I do blame the coaching and preparation of West. A QB in that situation has to know that unless there is a very clear path towards the sideline and a decent gain, one can simply not hold onto the ball and scramble. And its the coaching staff's job that their QBs know that.

I doubt any amount of preparation can help a player who instantly goes wide-eyed and forgets how to play QB as soon as he's under the lights. (That said, there can definitely be blame for recruiting and signing said player way too early.)

[AlbanyCardinal]

My only beef is that McKee wasn't designated the starter for fall camp (let alone the start of the season). It was obvious to everyone that one QB didn't have a high ceiling and the other did. It was inevitable, in the minds of anyone who cares about Stanford football, that McKee would eventually become the starter; so give him as many reps as possible with the first team, to give this team the best chance to hit the ground running against KSU. Season doesn't start second week of the season, and Shaw and staff had a year's worth of data to make this decision. It's why he's the highest-paid employee at Stanford, to make that kind of decision. Every time Stanford has to replace a graduated starting QB, I grit my teeth. 

I'm really impressed with Shaw as a coach. His coaching and teams continue to surprise me. But I hate, absolutely loathe, QB rotation during the season to pick your starter.

And I don't blame Shaw for West not throwing ball out of bounds, instead of falling down in bounds to keep clock rolling.  

Why not?

While I don't know that I blame Shaw in particular, I do blame the coaching and preparation of West. A QB in that situation has to know that unless there is a very clear path towards the sideline and a decent gain, one can simply not hold onto the ball and scramble. And its the coaching staff's job that their QBs know that.

I doubt any amount of preparation can help a player who instantly goes wide-eyed and forgets how to play QB as soon as he's under the lights. (That said, there can definitely be blame for recruiting and signing said player way too early.)

[Phogge]

Whatever happened to the kid who gave Kiffen a verbal while in the seventh grade?

[Phogge]

Whatever happened to the kid who gave Kiffen a verbal while in the seventh grade?

[scorecard]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

Sorry, Marty, Watched it twice and don't see Gilmore over the moon re Oregon at all. Great Gifs, btw.

Oregon fans were already ticked off at Gilmore for something he said last week criticizing Cristobal when they played Arizona, and Gilmore took some heat for his comments nationally so he probably was being extra careful with his words.  

https://twitter.com/brobible/status/1443...74370?s=21

[scorecard]

There was no PI on the final play of regulation. The official called holding on the Oregon DB. That contact would have happened before McKee threw the ball. I have not seen any camera angles that showed the battling between Humphreys and Wright before the ball was in the air. How can anyone (including Gilmore) comment on the penalty without seeing the contact?

Like I mentioned earlier, Gilmore's heart has left the Farm.  He was pulling for the Ducks from the beginning and his comments likely are fueling the Duck fans' anger over perceived "unfair" officiating.

Sorry, Marty, Watched it twice and don't see Gilmore over the moon re Oregon at all. Great Gifs, btw.

Oregon fans were already ticked off at Gilmore for something he said last week criticizing Cristobal when they played Arizona, and Gilmore took some heat for his comments nationally so he probably was being extra careful with his words.  

https://twitter.com/brobible/status/1443...74370?s=21