08-06-2021, 10:22 AM
Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread
08-06-2021, 11:00 AM
Vegas also opened up and many including a friend contracted Covid. So Vegas blows and knows nothing about the heart of this ballclub. Lex is in a tizzy about the starters. So are the Dodgers and the Padres. Both clubs have feet of clay. Bobbbbb and I have been here for all the Giants pennant races since 1958.
Enjoy this great year.
Enjoy this great year.
Vegas also opened up and many including a friend contracted Covid. So Vegas blows and knows nothing about the heart of this ballclub. Lex is in a tizzy about the starters. So are the Dodgers and the Padres. Both clubs have feet of clay. Bobbbbb and I have been here for all the Giants pennant races since 1958.
Enjoy this great year.
Enjoy this great year.
(08-06-2021, 11:00 AM)Phogge Wrote: Vegas also opened up and many including a friend contracted Covid. So Vegas blows and knows nothing about the heart of this ballclub. Lex is in a tizzy about the starters. So are the Dodgers and the Padres. Both clubs have feet of clay. Bobbbbb and I have been here for all the Giants pennant races since 1958.
Enjoy this great year.
This has been a terrific season. Heck, I can’t believe that the 63rd anniversary of my first big league game is coming up….
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...8290.shtml
(08-06-2021, 11:00 AM)Phogge Wrote: Vegas also opened up and many including a friend contracted Covid. So Vegas blows and knows nothing about the heart of this ballclub. Lex is in a tizzy about the starters. So are the Dodgers and the Padres. Both clubs have feet of clay. Bobbbbb and I have been here for all the Giants pennant races since 1958.
Enjoy this great year.
This has been a terrific season. Heck, I can’t believe that the 63rd anniversary of my first big league game is coming up….
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...8290.shtml
08-06-2021, 12:41 PM
(08-06-2021, 11:00 AM)Phogge Wrote: Vegas also opened up and many including a friend contracted Covid. So Vegas blows and knows nothing about the heart of this ballclub. Lex is in a tizzy about the starters. So are the Dodgers and the Padres. Both clubs have feet of clay. Bobbbbb and I have been here for all the Giants pennant races since 1958.
Enjoy this great year.
1. What Giants fan isn't enjoying this season?
2. I'm sure all those hotel/casinos were built in Sin City because the Vegas oddsmakers blow . . .
(08-06-2021, 11:00 AM)Phogge Wrote: Vegas also opened up and many including a friend contracted Covid. So Vegas blows and knows nothing about the heart of this ballclub. Lex is in a tizzy about the starters. So are the Dodgers and the Padres. Both clubs have feet of clay. Bobbbbb and I have been here for all the Giants pennant races since 1958.
Enjoy this great year.
1. What Giants fan isn't enjoying this season?
2. I'm sure all those hotel/casinos were built in Sin City because the Vegas oddsmakers blow . . .
08-06-2021, 01:56 PM
Always important to remember the line is set by what the books think will make them the most money, not what they think will actually happen.
08-06-2021, 08:49 PM
(08-06-2021, 07:23 AM)Mick Wrote:(08-05-2021, 11:17 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(08-05-2021, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Giants are now four games ahead of all other teams with a 69-40 record. Houston, Dodgers, Tampa Bay and Milwaukee are all 65-44, 4.0 games behind the Giants. Giants on a 103 win pace.
Giants have most HRs, 3rd best OPS, 7th most runs scored in MLB. They have the best WHIP and 3rd best ERA in MLB.
Oddball NL West statistic: Giants are 31-20 against teams with >.500 record. Padres are 31-24 against teams with a winning record. Dodgers are 24-29 against teams with a winning record.
Be interesting to see what happens when La Stella, Belt and Longoria return.
2 of 3 already back (and they look surprisingly good/unrusty). Just waiting for Longoria.
Tough decisions upcoming for Giants.
The concern is that the starting pitching is leaking oil. Bully great today, as noted. Maybe the Giants "ham and egg" for the rest of the season, but it still seems likely the Dodgers (at least) overtake them.
Dugger, .503 OPS since July. Send him back.
I'm afraid it's going to be Slater. He will come back in Sept. Of course, if pitchers keep dropping, who knows? Are the other Milwaukee pitchers as good as Burnes? And, Webb was great. I don't trust DeScalfini, so it's Gausman, Webb, Wood (always gives up 1 or 2 runs in 5 innings) and a questionable Sanchez?
(08-06-2021, 07:23 AM)Mick Wrote:(08-05-2021, 11:17 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(08-05-2021, 10:02 PM)Mick Wrote: Giants are now four games ahead of all other teams with a 69-40 record. Houston, Dodgers, Tampa Bay and Milwaukee are all 65-44, 4.0 games behind the Giants. Giants on a 103 win pace.
Giants have most HRs, 3rd best OPS, 7th most runs scored in MLB. They have the best WHIP and 3rd best ERA in MLB.
Oddball NL West statistic: Giants are 31-20 against teams with >.500 record. Padres are 31-24 against teams with a winning record. Dodgers are 24-29 against teams with a winning record.
Be interesting to see what happens when La Stella, Belt and Longoria return.
2 of 3 already back (and they look surprisingly good/unrusty). Just waiting for Longoria.
Tough decisions upcoming for Giants.
The concern is that the starting pitching is leaking oil. Bully great today, as noted. Maybe the Giants "ham and egg" for the rest of the season, but it still seems likely the Dodgers (at least) overtake them.
Dugger, .503 OPS since July. Send him back.
I'm afraid it's going to be Slater. He will come back in Sept. Of course, if pitchers keep dropping, who knows? Are the other Milwaukee pitchers as good as Burnes? And, Webb was great. I don't trust DeScalfini, so it's Gausman, Webb, Wood (always gives up 1 or 2 runs in 5 innings) and a questionable Sanchez?
08-07-2021, 12:05 AM
(08-06-2021, 08:49 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I'm afraid it's going to be Slater. He will come back in Sept. Of course, if pitchers keep dropping, who knows? Are the other Milwaukee pitchers as good as Burnes? And, Webb was great. I don't trust DeScalfini, so it's Gausman, Webb, Wood (always gives up 1 or 2 runs in 5 innings) and a questionable Sanchez?
Could very well be. And he has been scuffling most recently.
As leadoff man in 10th (with runner at 2B), you have to advance the runner. Slater Ked - and looked bad swinging at a low/outside pitch way out of the zone. BTW, last night, Crawford did a similar thing with Bryant at 2B and no outs in the 10th. The difference was that Bryant hit a leadoff double to score the courtesy runner. But still, Craw has to move him over - instead he struck out and Bryant didn't score.
I swear, the Giants do "the little things" poorly. It's amazing they do the other stuff so well to keep them atop the NL West. (And you have to love it that Giants L today is followed by a matching L from the Dodgers . . . and the Padres).
(08-06-2021, 08:49 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I'm afraid it's going to be Slater. He will come back in Sept. Of course, if pitchers keep dropping, who knows? Are the other Milwaukee pitchers as good as Burnes? And, Webb was great. I don't trust DeScalfini, so it's Gausman, Webb, Wood (always gives up 1 or 2 runs in 5 innings) and a questionable Sanchez?
Could very well be. And he has been scuffling most recently.
As leadoff man in 10th (with runner at 2B), you have to advance the runner. Slater Ked - and looked bad swinging at a low/outside pitch way out of the zone. BTW, last night, Crawford did a similar thing with Bryant at 2B and no outs in the 10th. The difference was that Bryant hit a leadoff double to score the courtesy runner. But still, Craw has to move him over - instead he struck out and Bryant didn't score.
I swear, the Giants do "the little things" poorly. It's amazing they do the other stuff so well to keep them atop the NL West. (And you have to love it that Giants L today is followed by a matching L from the Dodgers . . . and the Padres).
08-07-2021, 08:10 AM
Watched the Dodgers/Angels on MLB Net. Great game. Many dugout shots including future HOFers Kershaw and Scherzer conferring. They have an All Star team: Seager, Betts, Taylor, Muncy, Bellinger, Buehler, two Turners yada, yada, yada and still they are four games out.
Watched the Dodgers/Angels on MLB Net. Great game. Many dugout shots including future HOFers Kershaw and Scherzer conferring. They have an All Star team: Seager, Betts, Taylor, Muncy, Bellinger, Buehler, two Turners yada, yada, yada and still they are four games out.
(08-07-2021, 12:05 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(08-06-2021, 08:49 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I'm afraid it's going to be Slater. He will come back in Sept. Of course, if pitchers keep dropping, who knows? Are the other Milwaukee pitchers as good as Burnes? And, Webb was great. I don't trust DeScalfini, so it's Gausman, Webb, Wood (always gives up 1 or 2 runs in 5 innings) and a questionable Sanchez?
Could very well be. And he has been scuffling most recently.
As leadoff man in 10th (with runner at 2B), you have to advance the runner. Slater Ked - and looked bad swinging at a low/outside pitch way out of the zone. BTW, last night, Crawford did a similar thing with Bryant at 2B and no outs in the 10th. The difference was that Bryant hit a leadoff double to score the courtesy runner. But still, Craw has to move him over - instead he struck out and Bryant didn't score.
I swear, the Giants do "the little things" poorly. It's amazing they do the other stuff so well to keep them atop the NL West. (And you have to love it that Giants L today is followed by a matching L from the Dodgers . . . and the Padres).
I'll be really disappointed if Slater gets sent down. He had a breakout season last season (.282/.408/.506/.914) in limited action, but more to the point, he was weaker in the first three months -- bad April/March (.227/.318/.360/.678), improved May (.229/.327/.542/.869), disastrous June (.111/.158/.111/.269, but fewest monthly at bats)...but he rebounded strongly in July (.320/.358/.500/.858). He's the fastest player on the team (17 stolen bases in 20 attempts last two years) and an excellent outfielder. And his lines against the Dodgers (.393/.433/.679/1.112) and the Padres (.390/.381/.850/1.231) are his top two against opponents. I'd keep him.
(08-07-2021, 08:10 AM)Phogge Wrote: Watched the Dodgers/Angels on MLB Net. Great game. Many dugout shots including future HOFers Kershaw and Scherzer conferring. They have an All Star team: Seager, Betts, Taylor, Muncy, Bellinger, Buehler, two Turners yada, yada, yada and still they are four games out.
The Giants are 8-8 against the all-stars-in-blue. Runs scored/runs against are even at 68-68. Giants are 5-4 against the Padres, but just 31-33 runs scored/runs against.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(08-07-2021, 12:05 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(08-06-2021, 08:49 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I'm afraid it's going to be Slater. He will come back in Sept. Of course, if pitchers keep dropping, who knows? Are the other Milwaukee pitchers as good as Burnes? And, Webb was great. I don't trust DeScalfini, so it's Gausman, Webb, Wood (always gives up 1 or 2 runs in 5 innings) and a questionable Sanchez?
Could very well be. And he has been scuffling most recently.
As leadoff man in 10th (with runner at 2B), you have to advance the runner. Slater Ked - and looked bad swinging at a low/outside pitch way out of the zone. BTW, last night, Crawford did a similar thing with Bryant at 2B and no outs in the 10th. The difference was that Bryant hit a leadoff double to score the courtesy runner. But still, Craw has to move him over - instead he struck out and Bryant didn't score.
I swear, the Giants do "the little things" poorly. It's amazing they do the other stuff so well to keep them atop the NL West. (And you have to love it that Giants L today is followed by a matching L from the Dodgers . . . and the Padres).
I'll be really disappointed if Slater gets sent down. He had a breakout season last season (.282/.408/.506/.914) in limited action, but more to the point, he was weaker in the first three months -- bad April/March (.227/.318/.360/.678), improved May (.229/.327/.542/.869), disastrous June (.111/.158/.111/.269, but fewest monthly at bats)...but he rebounded strongly in July (.320/.358/.500/.858). He's the fastest player on the team (17 stolen bases in 20 attempts last two years) and an excellent outfielder. And his lines against the Dodgers (.393/.433/.679/1.112) and the Padres (.390/.381/.850/1.231) are his top two against opponents. I'd keep him.
(08-07-2021, 08:10 AM)Phogge Wrote: Watched the Dodgers/Angels on MLB Net. Great game. Many dugout shots including future HOFers Kershaw and Scherzer conferring. They have an All Star team: Seager, Betts, Taylor, Muncy, Bellinger, Buehler, two Turners yada, yada, yada and still they are four games out.
The Giants are 8-8 against the all-stars-in-blue. Runs scored/runs against are even at 68-68. Giants are 5-4 against the Padres, but just 31-33 runs scored/runs against.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(08-07-2021, 08:15 AM)Mick Wrote: I'll be really disappointed if Slater gets sent down. He had a breakout season last season (.282/.408/.506/.914) in limited action, but more to the point, he was weaker in the first three months -- bad April/March (.227/.318/.360/.678), improved May (.229/.327/.542/.869), disastrous June (.111/.158/.111/.269, but fewest monthly at bats)...but he rebounded strongly in July (.320/.358/.500/.858). He's the fastest player on the team (17 stolen bases in 20 attempts last two years) and an excellent outfielder. And his lines against the Dodgers (.393/.433/.679/1.112) and the Padres (.390/.381/.850/1.231) are his top two against opponents.
I don't subscribe to small sample sizes and Slater isn't the fastest player on the Giants (Estrada and Duggar are faster), but I'd also be disappointed if he's sent down. In this era of short benches his versatility makes him particularly valuable.
(08-07-2021, 08:15 AM)Mick Wrote: I'll be really disappointed if Slater gets sent down. He had a breakout season last season (.282/.408/.506/.914) in limited action, but more to the point, he was weaker in the first three months -- bad April/March (.227/.318/.360/.678), improved May (.229/.327/.542/.869), disastrous June (.111/.158/.111/.269, but fewest monthly at bats)...but he rebounded strongly in July (.320/.358/.500/.858). He's the fastest player on the team (17 stolen bases in 20 attempts last two years) and an excellent outfielder. And his lines against the Dodgers (.393/.433/.679/1.112) and the Padres (.390/.381/.850/1.231) are his top two against opponents.
I don't subscribe to small sample sizes and Slater isn't the fastest player on the Giants (Estrada and Duggar are faster), but I'd also be disappointed if he's sent down. In this era of short benches his versatility makes him particularly valuable.
(08-07-2021, 08:26 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(08-07-2021, 08:15 AM)Mick Wrote: I'll be really disappointed if Slater gets sent down. He had a breakout season last season (.282/.408/.506/.914) in limited action, but more to the point, he was weaker in the first three months -- bad April/March (.227/.318/.360/.678), improved May (.229/.327/.542/.869), disastrous June (.111/.158/.111/.269, but fewest monthly at bats)...but he rebounded strongly in July (.320/.358/.500/.858). He's the fastest player on the team (17 stolen bases in 20 attempts last two years) and an excellent outfielder. And his lines against the Dodgers (.393/.433/.679/1.112) and the Padres (.390/.381/.850/1.231) are his top two against opponents.
I don't subscribe to small sample sizes and Slater isn't the fastest player on the Giants (Estrada and Duggar are faster), but I'd also be disappointed if he's sent down. In this era of short benches his versatility makes him particularly valuable.
Duggar's faster? He's 13 of 18 career for stolen bases. Slater is 25 of 28. Estrada is 6 for 6, he and Slater steal about 3 bases for every 100 ABs, approximately.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(08-07-2021, 08:26 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(08-07-2021, 08:15 AM)Mick Wrote: I'll be really disappointed if Slater gets sent down. He had a breakout season last season (.282/.408/.506/.914) in limited action, but more to the point, he was weaker in the first three months -- bad April/March (.227/.318/.360/.678), improved May (.229/.327/.542/.869), disastrous June (.111/.158/.111/.269, but fewest monthly at bats)...but he rebounded strongly in July (.320/.358/.500/.858). He's the fastest player on the team (17 stolen bases in 20 attempts last two years) and an excellent outfielder. And his lines against the Dodgers (.393/.433/.679/1.112) and the Padres (.390/.381/.850/1.231) are his top two against opponents.
I don't subscribe to small sample sizes and Slater isn't the fastest player on the Giants (Estrada and Duggar are faster), but I'd also be disappointed if he's sent down. In this era of short benches his versatility makes him particularly valuable.
Duggar's faster? He's 13 of 18 career for stolen bases. Slater is 25 of 28. Estrada is 6 for 6, he and Slater steal about 3 bases for every 100 ABs, approximately.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
08-07-2021, 12:39 PM
Somebody has to go fellas. Who would you guys send down? I much prefer Wade to Slater.
08-07-2021, 01:04 PM
(08-07-2021, 12:14 PM)Mick Wrote: Duggar's faster? He's 13 of 18 career for stolen bases. Slater is 25 of 28. Estrada is 6 for 6, he and Slater steal about 3 bases for every 100 ABs, approximately.
Stolen bases are the result of multiple factors, one of which is speed, but several others which are not speed-dependent.
Top-End Speed:
Estrada 28.7 feet/second
Duggar 28.5 feet/second
Slater 28.3 feet/second
Home-to-First Time:
Duggar 4.30 seconds
Estrada 4.33 seconds
Slater 4.42 seconds
Estrada is a LHB which is approx. a 0.07 second advantage so he's still faster than Slater to first base, even when normalizing the numbers.
Estrada and Duggar are both faster in terms of both top speed and initial burst/acceleration. Obviously Slater has better stolen base skills than Duggar, whether due to picking better spots, reading pitchers better, taking a bigger lead off first base, etc.
Even in his prime Albert Pujols was not fast but he was smart and a great baserunner. He had back to back seasons with 16/20 stolen bases and another season when he went 16/18. Big Andres Galarraga stole 18 bases when he was 35 years old. Adam Dunn stole 19 bases once at 6-6, 285 lb. Stolen bases are about a lot more than speed. Maybe Duggar needs to get some base stealing coaching from Slater?
Source for the above speed figures: Statcast.
(08-07-2021, 12:14 PM)Mick Wrote: Duggar's faster? He's 13 of 18 career for stolen bases. Slater is 25 of 28. Estrada is 6 for 6, he and Slater steal about 3 bases for every 100 ABs, approximately.
Stolen bases are the result of multiple factors, one of which is speed, but several others which are not speed-dependent.
Top-End Speed:
Estrada 28.7 feet/second
Duggar 28.5 feet/second
Slater 28.3 feet/second
Home-to-First Time:
Duggar 4.30 seconds
Estrada 4.33 seconds
Slater 4.42 seconds
Estrada is a LHB which is approx. a 0.07 second advantage so he's still faster than Slater to first base, even when normalizing the numbers.
Estrada and Duggar are both faster in terms of both top speed and initial burst/acceleration. Obviously Slater has better stolen base skills than Duggar, whether due to picking better spots, reading pitchers better, taking a bigger lead off first base, etc.
Even in his prime Albert Pujols was not fast but he was smart and a great baserunner. He had back to back seasons with 16/20 stolen bases and another season when he went 16/18. Big Andres Galarraga stole 18 bases when he was 35 years old. Adam Dunn stole 19 bases once at 6-6, 285 lb. Stolen bases are about a lot more than speed. Maybe Duggar needs to get some base stealing coaching from Slater?
Source for the above speed figures: Statcast.
(08-07-2021, 01:04 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(08-07-2021, 12:14 PM)Mick Wrote: Duggar's faster? He's 13 of 18 career for stolen bases. Slater is 25 of 28. Estrada is 6 for 6, he and Slater steal about 3 bases for every 100 ABs, approximately.
Stolen bases are the result of multiple factors, one of which is speed, but several others which are not speed-dependent.
Top-End Speed:
Estrada 28.7 feet/second
Duggar 28.5 feet/second
Slater 28.3 feet/second
Home-to-First Time:
Duggar 4.30 seconds
Estrada 4.33 seconds
Slater 4.42 seconds
Estrada is a LHB which is approx. a 0.07 second advantage so he's still faster than Slater to first base, even when normalizing the numbers.
Estrada and Duggar are both faster in terms of both top speed and initial burst/acceleration. Obviously Slater has better stolen base skills than Duggar, whether due to picking better spots, reading pitchers better, taking a bigger lead off first base, etc.
Even in his prime Albert Pujols was not fast but he was smart and a great baserunner. He had back to back seasons with 16/20 stolen bases and another season when he went 16/18. Big Andres Galarraga stole 18 bases when he was 35 years old. Adam Dunn stole 19 bases once at 6-6, 285 lb. Stolen bases are about a lot more than speed. Maybe Duggar needs to get some base stealing coaching from Slater?
Source for the above speed figures: Statcast.
I think I'd quibble with a few of your metrics here:
1) First, you have Estrada and Duggar mixed up. Estrada is the RHB, and Duggar is the LHB.
2) A RHB is two full steps further from first base, and his inertia post-swing is moving away from first base, whereas a lefty's inertia is moving toward's first base. So I believe your 0.07 (7 hundredths of a second) is not quite accurate. Two very fast switch hitters were between 0.4 and 0.45 seconds faster from the left side than the right (Mickey Mantle and Bo Jackson). Mantle had the fastest time to first at 3.1 from the left and 3.5 from the right. Bo Jackson was 3.2 from the left and 3.65 from the right.
3) I checked Statcast's 90 foot sprint, and it shows Dugger (3.85), Slater (3.93) and Estrada (3.96). This measures Slater as faster than Estrada.
4) Tonight's announcer referred to Slater as the "fastest Giant." Right before the first pitch in the 11th inning.
In other words, I'd take Estrada's speed, then Slater's speed over Duggar's speed...
Statcast Running Splits Leaderboard | baseballsavant.com (mlb.com)
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(08-07-2021, 01:04 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(08-07-2021, 12:14 PM)Mick Wrote: Duggar's faster? He's 13 of 18 career for stolen bases. Slater is 25 of 28. Estrada is 6 for 6, he and Slater steal about 3 bases for every 100 ABs, approximately.
Stolen bases are the result of multiple factors, one of which is speed, but several others which are not speed-dependent.
Top-End Speed:
Estrada 28.7 feet/second
Duggar 28.5 feet/second
Slater 28.3 feet/second
Home-to-First Time:
Duggar 4.30 seconds
Estrada 4.33 seconds
Slater 4.42 seconds
Estrada is a LHB which is approx. a 0.07 second advantage so he's still faster than Slater to first base, even when normalizing the numbers.
Estrada and Duggar are both faster in terms of both top speed and initial burst/acceleration. Obviously Slater has better stolen base skills than Duggar, whether due to picking better spots, reading pitchers better, taking a bigger lead off first base, etc.
Even in his prime Albert Pujols was not fast but he was smart and a great baserunner. He had back to back seasons with 16/20 stolen bases and another season when he went 16/18. Big Andres Galarraga stole 18 bases when he was 35 years old. Adam Dunn stole 19 bases once at 6-6, 285 lb. Stolen bases are about a lot more than speed. Maybe Duggar needs to get some base stealing coaching from Slater?
Source for the above speed figures: Statcast.
I think I'd quibble with a few of your metrics here:
1) First, you have Estrada and Duggar mixed up. Estrada is the RHB, and Duggar is the LHB.
2) A RHB is two full steps further from first base, and his inertia post-swing is moving away from first base, whereas a lefty's inertia is moving toward's first base. So I believe your 0.07 (7 hundredths of a second) is not quite accurate. Two very fast switch hitters were between 0.4 and 0.45 seconds faster from the left side than the right (Mickey Mantle and Bo Jackson). Mantle had the fastest time to first at 3.1 from the left and 3.5 from the right. Bo Jackson was 3.2 from the left and 3.65 from the right.
3) I checked Statcast's 90 foot sprint, and it shows Dugger (3.85), Slater (3.93) and Estrada (3.96). This measures Slater as faster than Estrada.
4) Tonight's announcer referred to Slater as the "fastest Giant." Right before the first pitch in the 11th inning.
In other words, I'd take Estrada's speed, then Slater's speed over Duggar's speed...
Statcast Running Splits Leaderboard | baseballsavant.com (mlb.com)
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(08-07-2021, 11:05 PM)Mick Wrote: I think I'd quibble with a few of your metrics here:
1) First, you have Estrada and Duggar mixed up. Estrada is the RHB, and Duggar is the LHB.
2) A RHB is two full steps further from first base, and his inertia post-swing is moving away from first base, whereas a lefty's inertia is moving toward's first base. So I believe your 0.07 (7 hundredths of a second) is not quite accurate. Two very fast switch hitters were between 0.4 and 0.45 seconds faster from the left side than the right (Mickey Mantle and Bo Jackson). Mantle had the fastest time to first at 3.1 from the left and 3.5 from the right. Bo Jackson was 3.2 from the left and 3.65 from the right.
3) I checked Statcast's 90 foot sprint, and it shows Dugger (3.85), Slater (3.93) and Estrada (3.96). This measures Slater as faster than Estrada.
4) Tonight's announcer referred to Slater as the "fastest Giant." Right before the first pitch in the 11th inning.
In other words, I'd take Estrada's speed, then Slater's speed over Duggar's speed...
Statcast Running Splits Leaderboard | baseballsavant.com (mlb.com)
1. You are correct that it's Estrada who is the RHB and Duggar the LHB, I acknowlege my mistake, although this doesn't change the fact that both are faster from home to first than Slater.
2. MLB uses a table for scouting players which roughly corresponds to aggregated Statcast data. Note that the LHB/RHB delta in home-to-first times is not static; data supports what is intuitively obvious, which is that the difference in times is less pronounced among faster players (as well as the converse being true for slower runners).
For players in the 4.0 second range the delta is set at .024 seconds.
For players in the 4.2 second range the delta is set at .048 seconds.
For players in the 4.4 second range the delta is set at .072 seconds.
For players in the 4.6 second range the delta is set at .096 seconds.
For players in the 4.8 second range the delta is set at .120 seconds.
I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.
3. Slater is indeed faster over a 90 foot distance than Estrada, just as Mike Yastrzemski is faster over a 45 foot distance than Slater. Different players excel over different distances, just as in T&F. "Fastest" refers to to whoever literally runs fastest, and that's Estrada now.
4. Announcers frequently say things that aren't accurate. Slater is certainly in the group of fastest Giants and it's a matter of fractions of a second either way. Saying that Slater is the fastest Giant isn't an outrageous statement, a lot worse things are said on the broadcasts.
(08-07-2021, 11:05 PM)Mick Wrote: I think I'd quibble with a few of your metrics here:
1) First, you have Estrada and Duggar mixed up. Estrada is the RHB, and Duggar is the LHB.
2) A RHB is two full steps further from first base, and his inertia post-swing is moving away from first base, whereas a lefty's inertia is moving toward's first base. So I believe your 0.07 (7 hundredths of a second) is not quite accurate. Two very fast switch hitters were between 0.4 and 0.45 seconds faster from the left side than the right (Mickey Mantle and Bo Jackson). Mantle had the fastest time to first at 3.1 from the left and 3.5 from the right. Bo Jackson was 3.2 from the left and 3.65 from the right.
3) I checked Statcast's 90 foot sprint, and it shows Dugger (3.85), Slater (3.93) and Estrada (3.96). This measures Slater as faster than Estrada.
4) Tonight's announcer referred to Slater as the "fastest Giant." Right before the first pitch in the 11th inning.
In other words, I'd take Estrada's speed, then Slater's speed over Duggar's speed...
Statcast Running Splits Leaderboard | baseballsavant.com (mlb.com)
1. You are correct that it's Estrada who is the RHB and Duggar the LHB, I acknowlege my mistake, although this doesn't change the fact that both are faster from home to first than Slater.
2. MLB uses a table for scouting players which roughly corresponds to aggregated Statcast data. Note that the LHB/RHB delta in home-to-first times is not static; data supports what is intuitively obvious, which is that the difference in times is less pronounced among faster players (as well as the converse being true for slower runners).
For players in the 4.0 second range the delta is set at .024 seconds.
For players in the 4.2 second range the delta is set at .048 seconds.
For players in the 4.4 second range the delta is set at .072 seconds.
For players in the 4.6 second range the delta is set at .096 seconds.
For players in the 4.8 second range the delta is set at .120 seconds.
I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.
3. Slater is indeed faster over a 90 foot distance than Estrada, just as Mike Yastrzemski is faster over a 45 foot distance than Slater. Different players excel over different distances, just as in T&F. "Fastest" refers to to whoever literally runs fastest, and that's Estrada now.
4. Announcers frequently say things that aren't accurate. Slater is certainly in the group of fastest Giants and it's a matter of fractions of a second either way. Saying that Slater is the fastest Giant isn't an outrageous statement, a lot worse things are said on the broadcasts.
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