05-30-2020, 05:41 PM
From Jan 2010 to now
OT best and worst Giants trades last 10 years
no...... Ever:
Felipe for Bob Shaw
Foster for Duffy and a lame pitcher
Mays for Frank Williams
Perry for McDowell
Bill White for ?
Jackie Brandt for ?
Jose Cardenal for ?
Manny Mota for ?
Dave Kingman for cash to make a payroll
Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez
Liriano and Nathan for AJ Azzhole
Matty Alou for ?
Felipe for Bob Shaw
Foster for Duffy and a lame pitcher
Mays for Frank Williams
Perry for McDowell
Bill White for ?
Jackie Brandt for ?
Jose Cardenal for ?
Manny Mota for ?
Dave Kingman for cash to make a payroll
Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez
Liriano and Nathan for AJ Azzhole
Matty Alou for ?
no...... Ever:
Felipe for Bob Shaw
Foster for Duffy and a lame pitcher
Mays for Frank Williams
Perry for McDowell
Bill White for ?
Jackie Brandt for ?
Jose Cardenal for ?
Manny Mota for ?
Dave Kingman for cash to make a payroll
Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez
Liriano and Nathan for AJ Azzhole
Matty Alou for ?
Felipe for Bob Shaw
Foster for Duffy and a lame pitcher
Mays for Frank Williams
Perry for McDowell
Bill White for ?
Jackie Brandt for ?
Jose Cardenal for ?
Manny Mota for ?
Dave Kingman for cash to make a payroll
Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez
Liriano and Nathan for AJ Azzhole
Matty Alou for ?
05-30-2020, 06:28 PM
I can't remember the last ten years. And I forgot Bonds for murcer (never capitalize his name).
Grilli for ?
Wheeler for ?
Grilli for ?
Wheeler for ?
05-30-2020, 07:14 PM
Across the Bay, who did the A's trade to get T.J. Matthews, Blake Stein and Eric Ludwick?
Some other awful trades:
Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?
Who did the Rangers get in exchange for Sammy Sosa?
Who did the Tigers get in return for John Smoltz?
Who did the Red Sox get in exchange for Jeff Bagwell?
Who did the Mariners get in exchange for Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe?
Who did the Orioles get for Curt Schilling, Pete Harnisch and Steve Finley?
BC
Some other awful trades:
Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?
Who did the Rangers get in exchange for Sammy Sosa?
Who did the Tigers get in return for John Smoltz?
Who did the Red Sox get in exchange for Jeff Bagwell?
Who did the Mariners get in exchange for Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe?
Who did the Orioles get for Curt Schilling, Pete Harnisch and Steve Finley?
BC
Across the Bay, who did the A's trade to get T.J. Matthews, Blake Stein and Eric Ludwick?
Some other awful trades:
Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?
Who did the Rangers get in exchange for Sammy Sosa?
Who did the Tigers get in return for John Smoltz?
Who did the Red Sox get in exchange for Jeff Bagwell?
Who did the Mariners get in exchange for Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe?
Who did the Orioles get for Curt Schilling, Pete Harnisch and Steve Finley?
BC
Some other awful trades:
Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?
Who did the Rangers get in exchange for Sammy Sosa?
Who did the Tigers get in return for John Smoltz?
Who did the Red Sox get in exchange for Jeff Bagwell?
Who did the Mariners get in exchange for Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe?
Who did the Orioles get for Curt Schilling, Pete Harnisch and Steve Finley?
BC
One person’s opinion. If that’s the worse trade I’m a happy Giants fan
https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2...co-giants/
Bagwell was a minor league player traded for Larry Anderson who pitched 15 games then gone.
Bagwell to the Hall of Fame
https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2...co-giants/
Bagwell was a minor league player traded for Larry Anderson who pitched 15 games then gone.
Bagwell to the Hall of Fame
One person’s opinion. If that’s the worse trade I’m a happy Giants fan
https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2...co-giants/
Bagwell was a minor league player traded for Larry Anderson who pitched 15 games then gone.
Bagwell to the Hall of Fame
https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2...co-giants/
Bagwell was a minor league player traded for Larry Anderson who pitched 15 games then gone.
Bagwell to the Hall of Fame
05-31-2020, 04:05 AM
Aside from the Giants I haven’t followed much baseball since the ‘98 season after MLB severed a deal with Phoenix Communications thus ending my WS coverage at 27 Fall Classics. So I can tell you who Detroit got from Cleveland when they traded Harvey Kuenn and who the Yanks got when they traded Gus Triandos to the Browns.
What I remember about Sosa was that the Sox got George Bell from the Cubs. I followed Bell because I got into an argument with him in spring training one year.
What I remember about Sosa was that the Sox got George Bell from the Cubs. I followed Bell because I got into an argument with him in spring training one year.
Aside from the Giants I haven’t followed much baseball since the ‘98 season after MLB severed a deal with Phoenix Communications thus ending my WS coverage at 27 Fall Classics. So I can tell you who Detroit got from Cleveland when they traded Harvey Kuenn and who the Yanks got when they traded Gus Triandos to the Browns.
What I remember about Sosa was that the Sox got George Bell from the Cubs. I followed Bell because I got into an argument with him in spring training one year.
What I remember about Sosa was that the Sox got George Bell from the Cubs. I followed Bell because I got into an argument with him in spring training one year.
05-31-2020, 04:09 AM
Beltran for Wheeler was by far the worst trade of the decade for Giants. But what about arguing the opportunity cost of not trading Bumgarner two years ago?
Beltran for Wheeler was by far the worst trade of the decade for Giants. But what about arguing the opportunity cost of not trading Bumgarner two years ago?
(05-30-2020, 07:57 PM)BobK Wrote: One person’s opinion. If that’s the worse trade I’m a happy Giants fanI’m having a hard time thinking the Moore for Duffy/Fox/Santos trade falls into the “worst” category. First, I admit that Moore had a rough second year, going 6-15 and leading the NL in losses. His first year with the Giants (2016), the Giants were in the race and he went 6-5 and 4-0 down the stretch.
https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2...co-giants/
On the back end, we sure didn’t give up much. Fox’s five year minor batting average is .244. Santos has seven years in the minors and last year’s ERA at the A and AA combined was 5.55. Which leaves Duffy. Duffy had a very good 2014 rookie year, a terrific second year (hit .295, .762 OPS), then dipped in his third year (.252/.671). He gets to Tampa Bay, returns to form for second full year with them (.294/.727), then gets hurt (.252/.670). He’s now a non-roster invitee at Texas and hit .281 – all singles – in the 2020 Texas Ranger spring training.
And finally, the Giants traded Matt Moore for Sam Wolff (2.87 ERA, mostly at AA Richmond – 1.76 ERA, but he’s 29) and now-22 year old Israel
Cruz (5.08 ERA, 33 Ks in 28 innings).
Not a great -- or even good -- trade on balance, I just don't know that it belongs in the "worst" category. BTW, I notice that the two trades were structured nearly identically; one strong MLB player for the Giants against two weak-ish minor leaguers and one decent major leaguer.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(05-30-2020, 07:57 PM)BobK Wrote: One person’s opinion. If that’s the worse trade I’m a happy Giants fanI’m having a hard time thinking the Moore for Duffy/Fox/Santos trade falls into the “worst” category. First, I admit that Moore had a rough second year, going 6-15 and leading the NL in losses. His first year with the Giants (2016), the Giants were in the race and he went 6-5 and 4-0 down the stretch.
https://www.baseballessential.com/news/2...co-giants/
On the back end, we sure didn’t give up much. Fox’s five year minor batting average is .244. Santos has seven years in the minors and last year’s ERA at the A and AA combined was 5.55. Which leaves Duffy. Duffy had a very good 2014 rookie year, a terrific second year (hit .295, .762 OPS), then dipped in his third year (.252/.671). He gets to Tampa Bay, returns to form for second full year with them (.294/.727), then gets hurt (.252/.670). He’s now a non-roster invitee at Texas and hit .281 – all singles – in the 2020 Texas Ranger spring training.
And finally, the Giants traded Matt Moore for Sam Wolff (2.87 ERA, mostly at AA Richmond – 1.76 ERA, but he’s 29) and now-22 year old Israel
Cruz (5.08 ERA, 33 Ks in 28 innings).
Not a great -- or even good -- trade on balance, I just don't know that it belongs in the "worst" category. BTW, I notice that the two trades were structured nearly identically; one strong MLB player for the Giants against two weak-ish minor leaguers and one decent major leaguer.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
05-31-2020, 12:04 PM
Probably the worst deal ever was Harry Frazee selling The Babe to Colonel Ruppert (a horse's ass if there ever was one). At least Harry got money to finance "No No Nanette" which was a big hit.
05-31-2020, 07:28 PM
(05-31-2020, 08:40 AM)BobK Wrote: Agree Mick. Strange worst trade.
Hey Moore was an innings eater. Lol hate that term
Bottom line no bad trades
Wheeler was ok for two years then missed two years.
Beltran for Wheeler didn’t work out. But it is defensible. Giants were in the thick of it, they needed a big bat. They got one. But, alas, he got hurt. That’s not Sabean’s fault.
The Moore-Duffy et al trade looked good in 2016. Remember, Moore pitched a shutout against the Dodgers in a key game late in the season. And Moore was on the mound in that infamous game 4 in Wrigley. Pitched brilliantly.
(05-31-2020, 08:40 AM)BobK Wrote: Agree Mick. Strange worst trade.
Hey Moore was an innings eater. Lol hate that term
Bottom line no bad trades
Wheeler was ok for two years then missed two years.
Beltran for Wheeler didn’t work out. But it is defensible. Giants were in the thick of it, they needed a big bat. They got one. But, alas, he got hurt. That’s not Sabean’s fault.
The Moore-Duffy et al trade looked good in 2016. Remember, Moore pitched a shutout against the Dodgers in a key game late in the season. And Moore was on the mound in that infamous game 4 in Wrigley. Pitched brilliantly.
(05-30-2020, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?While not Hall of Fame level, Mark Langston was an ace pitcher with several all-star games. Also led the league in Ks several times. (then again, Montreal only got one season from him before he took off for the California Angels.)
(05-30-2020, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?While not Hall of Fame level, Mark Langston was an ace pitcher with several all-star games. Also led the league in Ks several times. (then again, Montreal only got one season from him before he took off for the California Angels.)
06-01-2020, 06:04 AM
Perhaps the city hit the hardest by a trade was Cleveland when Rocky Colavito was dealt to the Tigers for Harvey Kuenn. Rocky had matinee idol looks and was the team’s power. Kuenn was a line drive hitter, a hard nosed player with a giant chaw in his cheek and a regular stool at many bars in American League cities. Took a long time for fans to forgive Indian brass.
Perhaps the city hit the hardest by a trade was Cleveland when Rocky Colavito was dealt to the Tigers for Harvey Kuenn. Rocky had matinee idol looks and was the team’s power. Kuenn was a line drive hitter, a hard nosed player with a giant chaw in his cheek and a regular stool at many bars in American League cities. Took a long time for fans to forgive Indian brass.
06-01-2020, 07:17 AM
(06-01-2020, 06:04 AM)Phogge Wrote: Perhaps the city hit the hardest by a trade was Cleveland when Rocky Colavito was dealt to the Tigers for Harvey Kuenn. Rocky had matinee idol looks and was the team’s power. Kuenn was a line drive hitter, a hard nosed player with a giant chaw in his cheek and a regular stool at many bars in American League cities. Took a long time for fans to forgive Indian brass.
Post-trade, Colavito went .249/.791 in 1960 for Detroit. Kuenn went .308/.795 for the Indians. After one year, the trade was received so miserably that Cleveland traded Kuenn to the Giants for Willie Kirkland (hit 63 HRs in three years, Colavito hit 104 in that same span) and P Johnny Antonelli. Antonelli went 108-84 for the Giants in six years, then went 0-4 in a single half-year with Cleveland. That was probably the worst overall trade, or series of trades by Cleveland.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(06-01-2020, 06:04 AM)Phogge Wrote: Perhaps the city hit the hardest by a trade was Cleveland when Rocky Colavito was dealt to the Tigers for Harvey Kuenn. Rocky had matinee idol looks and was the team’s power. Kuenn was a line drive hitter, a hard nosed player with a giant chaw in his cheek and a regular stool at many bars in American League cities. Took a long time for fans to forgive Indian brass.
Post-trade, Colavito went .249/.791 in 1960 for Detroit. Kuenn went .308/.795 for the Indians. After one year, the trade was received so miserably that Cleveland traded Kuenn to the Giants for Willie Kirkland (hit 63 HRs in three years, Colavito hit 104 in that same span) and P Johnny Antonelli. Antonelli went 108-84 for the Giants in six years, then went 0-4 in a single half-year with Cleveland. That was probably the worst overall trade, or series of trades by Cleveland.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
06-01-2020, 09:25 AM
Antonelli was extremely anti San Francisco. First he trashed the wonderful Seals Stadium and then proceeded to bemoan CP. Stoneham and Chub had to get rid of him. Kuenn was a vital cog in the Giants first West Coast pennant and the Giants had so many outfielders that losing Big Glove Kirkland was no problem.
Antonelli was extremely anti San Francisco. First he trashed the wonderful Seals Stadium and then proceeded to bemoan CP. Stoneham and Chub had to get rid of him. Kuenn was a vital cog in the Giants first West Coast pennant and the Giants had so many outfielders that losing Big Glove Kirkland was no problem.
06-01-2020, 10:38 AM
(05-31-2020, 11:56 PM)magnus Wrote:(05-30-2020, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?
While not Hall of Fame level, Mark Langston was an ace pitcher with several all-star games. Also led the league in Ks several times. (then again, Montreal only got one season from him before he took off for the California Angels.)
The trade was in 1989. Yes, Langston had been an ace pitcher, but in his one year in Montreal, Langston went 12-9 for a team that finished .500. Montreal got 176 innings out of him.
On the other hand, Randy Johnson's career in Seattle included nine plus years, five all star games, one Cy Young award (two runners up and one third place vote). He went 130-74 (a .637 winning percentage), had a 3.42 ERA, and pitched 1831 innings for the mariners. Moreover, when the Mariners traded him a decade later on the back end to the Houston Astros, they got Freddie Garcia, Carlos Guillen and John Halama, while the Astros got Johnson for less than a year. Although Johnson helped the Astros win 104 games and make the playoffs, they lost in the first round to San Diego (not really Johnson's fault; he had a sub-2 ERA but went 0-2).
Halama was the least impactful, posting a 4.46 ERA with the team. Carlos Guillen took until 2000 to start playing but was a key cog to the Mariners through 2003. Garcia finished second in Rookie of the Year voting and ninth in Cy Young voting. He followed that up with All-Star appearances in 2001 and 2002, as well as finishing third in Cy Young voting in 2001.
But the big winner was Arizona, who signed Johnson as a free agent, where he won the Cy Young four straight years and was a five-time all star. Still, since Johnson wasn't going to resign with Seattle, given that they weren't going anywhere in 1998, the Mariners got a nice haul.
BC
(05-31-2020, 11:56 PM)magnus Wrote:(05-30-2020, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Who did the Montreal Expos get in exchange for Randy Johnson?
While not Hall of Fame level, Mark Langston was an ace pitcher with several all-star games. Also led the league in Ks several times. (then again, Montreal only got one season from him before he took off for the California Angels.)
The trade was in 1989. Yes, Langston had been an ace pitcher, but in his one year in Montreal, Langston went 12-9 for a team that finished .500. Montreal got 176 innings out of him.
On the other hand, Randy Johnson's career in Seattle included nine plus years, five all star games, one Cy Young award (two runners up and one third place vote). He went 130-74 (a .637 winning percentage), had a 3.42 ERA, and pitched 1831 innings for the mariners. Moreover, when the Mariners traded him a decade later on the back end to the Houston Astros, they got Freddie Garcia, Carlos Guillen and John Halama, while the Astros got Johnson for less than a year. Although Johnson helped the Astros win 104 games and make the playoffs, they lost in the first round to San Diego (not really Johnson's fault; he had a sub-2 ERA but went 0-2).
Halama was the least impactful, posting a 4.46 ERA with the team. Carlos Guillen took until 2000 to start playing but was a key cog to the Mariners through 2003. Garcia finished second in Rookie of the Year voting and ninth in Cy Young voting. He followed that up with All-Star appearances in 2001 and 2002, as well as finishing third in Cy Young voting in 2001.
But the big winner was Arizona, who signed Johnson as a free agent, where he won the Cy Young four straight years and was a five-time all star. Still, since Johnson wasn't going to resign with Seattle, given that they weren't going anywhere in 1998, the Mariners got a nice haul.
BC
(05-30-2020, 05:59 PM)Phogge Wrote: no...... Ever:
Felipe for Bob Shaw
Foster for Duffy and a lame pitcher
Mays for Frank Williams
Perry for McDowell
Bill White for ?
Jackie Brandt for ?
Jose Cardenal for ?
Manny Mota for ?
Dave Kingman for cash to make a payroll
Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez
Liriano and Nathan for AJ Azzhole
Matty Alou for ?
Perry AND Duffy for McDowell.
It was more that 10 years ago, but Jack Clark for David Green and Jose Gonzales was a poor trade. Green was Nicaraguan I believe. He turned out to be about 5 years older than “advertised”. Didn’t do much with the Giants. Gonzales, as Hank Greenwald loved to riff, was the “player to be named later”. You know him as Jose Uribe. Good defensive SS. Not much of a bat. Died tragically in a car accident.
Clark went on to have several big years, albeit with several teams. The Ripper. And the other Clark 22. One of the underrated Giants. Loved to watch him hit.
(05-30-2020, 05:59 PM)Phogge Wrote: no...... Ever:
Felipe for Bob Shaw
Foster for Duffy and a lame pitcher
Mays for Frank Williams
Perry for McDowell
Bill White for ?
Jackie Brandt for ?
Jose Cardenal for ?
Manny Mota for ?
Dave Kingman for cash to make a payroll
Garry Maddox for Willie Montanez
Liriano and Nathan for AJ Azzhole
Matty Alou for ?
Perry AND Duffy for McDowell.
It was more that 10 years ago, but Jack Clark for David Green and Jose Gonzales was a poor trade. Green was Nicaraguan I believe. He turned out to be about 5 years older than “advertised”. Didn’t do much with the Giants. Gonzales, as Hank Greenwald loved to riff, was the “player to be named later”. You know him as Jose Uribe. Good defensive SS. Not much of a bat. Died tragically in a car accident.
Clark went on to have several big years, albeit with several teams. The Ripper. And the other Clark 22. One of the underrated Giants. Loved to watch him hit.
06-01-2020, 02:33 PM
Speaking of the infamous "player to be named later", here are some of the most famous PTBNL's.
David Ortiz (known as David Arias at the time), acquired as a PTBNL by Minnesota for Dave Hollins in 2003.
Michael Brantly, acquired as a PTBNL by Cleveland along with Matt Laporta, and a couple others for CC Sabthia from Milwaukee in 2008. Interestingly, this PTBNL was contingent on Milwaukee making the playoffs. According to Brewers GM Bob Melvin, the deal was "If we get to the playoffs, you get to pick [the final player], if we don't, I get to pick"
Moises Alou, acquired as a PTBNL by Montreal along with two other minor leaguers from the Pirates in exchange for Zane Smith in 1990.
Jason Schmidt, acquired as a PTBNL by Pittsburgh from Atlanta in exchange Denny Neagle. Schmidt, of course, went on to have a couple good seasons for the Giants, including being part of the 2002 World Season team and leading the NL in ERA and finishing second in Cy Young voting the next year.
Scott Brosius, acquired as a PTBNL by the Yankees in exchange for Kenny Rogers in 1995 as part of an attempt to unload Rogers.
Jesse Orosco, acquired as a PTBNL by the Mets, from the Twins in exchange for Jerry Koosman.
BC
David Ortiz (known as David Arias at the time), acquired as a PTBNL by Minnesota for Dave Hollins in 2003.
Michael Brantly, acquired as a PTBNL by Cleveland along with Matt Laporta, and a couple others for CC Sabthia from Milwaukee in 2008. Interestingly, this PTBNL was contingent on Milwaukee making the playoffs. According to Brewers GM Bob Melvin, the deal was "If we get to the playoffs, you get to pick [the final player], if we don't, I get to pick"
Moises Alou, acquired as a PTBNL by Montreal along with two other minor leaguers from the Pirates in exchange for Zane Smith in 1990.
Jason Schmidt, acquired as a PTBNL by Pittsburgh from Atlanta in exchange Denny Neagle. Schmidt, of course, went on to have a couple good seasons for the Giants, including being part of the 2002 World Season team and leading the NL in ERA and finishing second in Cy Young voting the next year.
Scott Brosius, acquired as a PTBNL by the Yankees in exchange for Kenny Rogers in 1995 as part of an attempt to unload Rogers.
Jesse Orosco, acquired as a PTBNL by the Mets, from the Twins in exchange for Jerry Koosman.
BC
Speaking of the infamous "player to be named later", here are some of the most famous PTBNL's.
David Ortiz (known as David Arias at the time), acquired as a PTBNL by Minnesota for Dave Hollins in 2003.
Michael Brantly, acquired as a PTBNL by Cleveland along with Matt Laporta, and a couple others for CC Sabthia from Milwaukee in 2008. Interestingly, this PTBNL was contingent on Milwaukee making the playoffs. According to Brewers GM Bob Melvin, the deal was "If we get to the playoffs, you get to pick [the final player], if we don't, I get to pick"
Moises Alou, acquired as a PTBNL by Montreal along with two other minor leaguers from the Pirates in exchange for Zane Smith in 1990.
Jason Schmidt, acquired as a PTBNL by Pittsburgh from Atlanta in exchange Denny Neagle. Schmidt, of course, went on to have a couple good seasons for the Giants, including being part of the 2002 World Season team and leading the NL in ERA and finishing second in Cy Young voting the next year.
Scott Brosius, acquired as a PTBNL by the Yankees in exchange for Kenny Rogers in 1995 as part of an attempt to unload Rogers.
Jesse Orosco, acquired as a PTBNL by the Mets, from the Twins in exchange for Jerry Koosman.
BC
David Ortiz (known as David Arias at the time), acquired as a PTBNL by Minnesota for Dave Hollins in 2003.
Michael Brantly, acquired as a PTBNL by Cleveland along with Matt Laporta, and a couple others for CC Sabthia from Milwaukee in 2008. Interestingly, this PTBNL was contingent on Milwaukee making the playoffs. According to Brewers GM Bob Melvin, the deal was "If we get to the playoffs, you get to pick [the final player], if we don't, I get to pick"
Moises Alou, acquired as a PTBNL by Montreal along with two other minor leaguers from the Pirates in exchange for Zane Smith in 1990.
Jason Schmidt, acquired as a PTBNL by Pittsburgh from Atlanta in exchange Denny Neagle. Schmidt, of course, went on to have a couple good seasons for the Giants, including being part of the 2002 World Season team and leading the NL in ERA and finishing second in Cy Young voting the next year.
Scott Brosius, acquired as a PTBNL by the Yankees in exchange for Kenny Rogers in 1995 as part of an attempt to unload Rogers.
Jesse Orosco, acquired as a PTBNL by the Mets, from the Twins in exchange for Jerry Koosman.
BC
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