[washingtonismoney]

Maybe I’m being pop psychologist here, but I have a feeling that Chryst’s problems are mental. 

I think Bloomgren more-or-less explicitly said this. I can't find the quote, but I distinctly recall him saying something like, "Well, Chryst saw Costello rip it and it freed him to go rip it too" after... the Oregon game, maybe? Dunno.

But they definitely seem to favor Chryst to a high degree. Remember, even when Burns "won" the job in 2016, he didn't truly win it. Chryst was still rotating in for much of the early season. Then of course they switched to Chryst.

Obviously, this year, they went back to Chryst basically as soon as they got the opportunity. Unlike the early part of 2016 -- when Chryst got some drives here or there -- Costello's role has decreased, despite Shaw saying a) Costello was playing well, b) Costello would keep getting series, and c) he didn't like how Chryst and Burns had virtually no experience in 2016 and would try to avoid that situation going into the future. All of these things would indicate at least giving Costello a shot tonight. No shot!

The only conclusion is that something Chryst is doing in practice or whatever enamors the coaches and he will be at the very worst a rotational QB for the entirety of his career. 

[washingtonismoney]

Maybe I’m being pop psychologist here, but I have a feeling that Chryst’s problems are mental. 

I think Bloomgren more-or-less explicitly said this. I can't find the quote, but I distinctly recall him saying something like, "Well, Chryst saw Costello rip it and it freed him to go rip it too" after... the Oregon game, maybe? Dunno.

But they definitely seem to favor Chryst to a high degree. Remember, even when Burns "won" the job in 2016, he didn't truly win it. Chryst was still rotating in for much of the early season. Then of course they switched to Chryst.

Obviously, this year, they went back to Chryst basically as soon as they got the opportunity. Unlike the early part of 2016 -- when Chryst got some drives here or there -- Costello's role has decreased, despite Shaw saying a) Costello was playing well, b) Costello would keep getting series, and c) he didn't like how Chryst and Burns had virtually no experience in 2016 and would try to avoid that situation going into the future. All of these things would indicate at least giving Costello a shot tonight. No shot!

The only conclusion is that something Chryst is doing in practice or whatever enamors the coaches and he will be at the very worst a rotational QB for the entirety of his career. 

[teejers1]

Didn't watch the 2H (didn't clean toilets, either - instead ran some errands).  I admire many of the folks here for keeping good humor in what must have been a dreadful viewing experience.

Martyup, your gifs are still money - in good times and in bad.

P.S. Tycho . . . brilliant!

[teejers1]

Didn't watch the 2H (didn't clean toilets, either - instead ran some errands).  I admire many of the folks here for keeping good humor in what must have been a dreadful viewing experience.

Martyup, your gifs are still money - in good times and in bad.

P.S. Tycho . . . brilliant!

[ChicagoCard]

What baffles me is Shaw was willing to play two QBs against Utah and Oregon, when Chryst wasn't playing this poorly. So why doesn't he play his second QB when Chryst is struggling?

The perverse psychology of not being able to give up on a lost cause? Although I hate to refer to it as that.

[ChicagoCard]

What baffles me is Shaw was willing to play two QBs against Utah and Oregon, when Chryst wasn't playing this poorly. So why doesn't he play his second QB when Chryst is struggling?

The perverse psychology of not being able to give up on a lost cause? Although I hate to refer to it as that.

[CowboyIndian]

I think they are waiting for the light to go off,

I think we have been watching the light go off.

[CowboyIndian]

I think they are waiting for the light to go off,

I think we have been watching the light go off.

[CompSci87]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=17791.msg208521#msg208521 date=1509081279]
I think they are waiting for the light to go off,

I think we have been watching the light go off.
[/quote]

Yeah, the phrase Stanford coaches have used for when a player suddenly "gets it" and starts playing well is "the light goes on".

[CompSci87]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=17791.msg208521#msg208521 date=1509081279]
I think they are waiting for the light to go off,

I think we have been watching the light go off.
[/quote]

Yeah, the phrase Stanford coaches have used for when a player suddenly "gets it" and starts playing well is "the light goes on".

[d4cohn]

18.8 QBR for Chryst.  Abysmal.

SDSU was actually worse. 4.8 QBR on 72 yards passing.

[d4cohn]

18.8 QBR for Chryst.  Abysmal.

SDSU was actually worse. 4.8 QBR on 72 yards passing.

[JJJ]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17791.msg208381#msg208381 date=1509077569]
The fade is a play I hate, but Arcega-Whiteside is so good at it I don't mind at all.

As lex pointed out, it isn’t really a fade in the traditional sense.  It’s more of a jump ball, let JJAW or Parkinson establish position and bring it down.
[/quote]

Very fair, but given that it isn't the ref throwing the ball up in the air, may I suggest "alley-oop" as an alternative moniker? Even though he won't then "dunk" it over the crossbar?  :P

[JJJ]

[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17791.msg208381#msg208381 date=1509077569]
The fade is a play I hate, but Arcega-Whiteside is so good at it I don't mind at all.

As lex pointed out, it isn’t really a fade in the traditional sense.  It’s more of a jump ball, let JJAW or Parkinson establish position and bring it down.
[/quote]

Very fair, but given that it isn't the ref throwing the ball up in the air, may I suggest "alley-oop" as an alternative moniker? Even though he won't then "dunk" it over the crossbar?  :P

[Hurlburt88]

I had a 2am wake up so missed second half.  How many yards did Nall end up gaining?    And is Love in a boot?  I only saw upper body shots in first half, and he did look like he was limping slightly when he walked. 

[Hurlburt88]

I had a 2am wake up so missed second half.  How many yards did Nall end up gaining?    And is Love in a boot?  I only saw upper body shots in first half, and he did look like he was limping slightly when he walked. 

[Mick]

So, I've had some time to collect my thoughts and I've figured it out. Shaw didn't put Costello in because he wanted the team to struggle mightily so the Hman voters would see how valuable Love is.

Brillant.

I don't know that Shaw intended this, but  AFAIK, that's the result.  Without Love, this offense is heinous to watch.

[Mick]

So, I've had some time to collect my thoughts and I've figured it out. Shaw didn't put Costello in because he wanted the team to struggle mightily so the Hman voters would see how valuable Love is.

Brillant.

I don't know that Shaw intended this, but  AFAIK, that's the result.  Without Love, this offense is heinous to watch.

[newguy]

i think i just figured out why Shaw didn't put Costello in during the 2nd half.

earlier in this thread, someone said that the female reporter asked Shaw at halftime if he was going to put Costello in for a series or two, and apparently, the look on his face showed utter disdain.  if she hadn't asked that question, i'm thinkin' KJ plays at least a few series.

[newguy]

i think i just figured out why Shaw didn't put Costello in during the 2nd half.

earlier in this thread, someone said that the female reporter asked Shaw at halftime if he was going to put Costello in for a series or two, and apparently, the look on his face showed utter disdain.  if she hadn't asked that question, i'm thinkin' KJ plays at least a few series.

[stupac2]

The only conclusion is that something Chryst is doing in practice or whatever enamors the coaches and he will be at the very worst a rotational QB for the entirety of his career.

Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at USC when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

I have to say that the handling of this QB situation is by far the most baffling thing this coaching staff has done.

[stupac2]

The only conclusion is that something Chryst is doing in practice or whatever enamors the coaches and he will be at the very worst a rotational QB for the entirety of his career.

Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at USC when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

I have to say that the handling of this QB situation is by far the most baffling thing this coaching staff has done.

[ChicagoCard]

i think i just figured out why Shaw didn't put Costello in during the 2nd half.

earlier in this thread, someone said that the female reporter asked Shaw at halftime if he was going to put Costello in for a series or two, and apparently, the look on his face showed utter disdain.  if she hadn't asked that question, i'm thinkin' KJ plays at least a few series.

This is plain dumb.

[ChicagoCard]

i think i just figured out why Shaw didn't put Costello in during the 2nd half.

earlier in this thread, someone said that the female reporter asked Shaw at halftime if he was going to put Costello in for a series or two, and apparently, the look on his face showed utter disdain.  if she hadn't asked that question, i'm thinkin' KJ plays at least a few series.

This is plain dumb.

[jacketree]

I had a 2am wake up so missed second half.  How many yards did Nall end up gaining?    And is Love in a boot?  I only saw upper body shots in first half, and he did look like he was limping slightly when he walked.

Love was in a boot and limping noticeably.  That's after nearly two weeks of rest.  Although if I wore one ski boot and one normal shoe, I'd be limping regardless of the health of my ankle.

There's trouble in River City now.  Without Love the team is under water.

[jacketree]

I had a 2am wake up so missed second half.  How many yards did Nall end up gaining?    And is Love in a boot?  I only saw upper body shots in first half, and he did look like he was limping slightly when he walked.

Love was in a boot and limping noticeably.  That's after nearly two weeks of rest.  Although if I wore one ski boot and one normal shoe, I'd be limping regardless of the health of my ankle.

There's trouble in River City now.  Without Love the team is under water.

[OutsiderFan]

There's trouble in River City now.  Without Love the team is under water.

I don't believe this is the case unless the QB position is dreadful. And no QB that should be playing would be dreadful with all the protection the OL is now affording.

[OutsiderFan]

There's trouble in River City now.  Without Love the team is under water.

I don't believe this is the case unless the QB position is dreadful. And no QB that should be playing would be dreadful with all the protection the OL is now affording.

[csfoster]

On to the next perplexing dilemma.  :)

[csfoster]

On to the next perplexing dilemma.  :)

[washingtonismoney]

Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at U$C when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

Right -- and making it more seductive for them is that we occasionally see Good Chryst on the field. We even see Good Chryst when all logic dictates he should be crushed by pressure.

Consider the Utah game. Tough rough environment -- way tougher than half-empty Reser Stadium. Good team, good defense. Well-coached opposition. First game back from a concussion. Fans want your backup to play. To me, seems like a pressure-packed situation! Yet the consensus from fans is that Chryst either played even with Costello or actually outplayed him. (Certainly statistically Chryst did.) So why no pressure there, but plenty of pressure against lowly Oregon State?

The mind's a crazy thing, and training it is tough. Sometimes players mature and grow past inconsistency -- Josh Garnett is one guy I remember being very inconsistent early in his career and maturing (obviously) into a dominant guard. So it's not as if it never happens. It's just that Chryst is old in college-player terms and very unlikely to see it happen. Might still happen, but then sometimes your roulette number comes up too.

[washingtonismoney]

Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at U$C when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

Right -- and making it more seductive for them is that we occasionally see Good Chryst on the field. We even see Good Chryst when all logic dictates he should be crushed by pressure.

Consider the Utah game. Tough rough environment -- way tougher than half-empty Reser Stadium. Good team, good defense. Well-coached opposition. First game back from a concussion. Fans want your backup to play. To me, seems like a pressure-packed situation! Yet the consensus from fans is that Chryst either played even with Costello or actually outplayed him. (Certainly statistically Chryst did.) So why no pressure there, but plenty of pressure against lowly Oregon State?

The mind's a crazy thing, and training it is tough. Sometimes players mature and grow past inconsistency -- Josh Garnett is one guy I remember being very inconsistent early in his career and maturing (obviously) into a dominant guard. So it's not as if it never happens. It's just that Chryst is old in college-player terms and very unlikely to see it happen. Might still happen, but then sometimes your roulette number comes up too.

[Goose]

Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at U$C when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

Probably true. In the Oregon game, everything work as planned, just like practice. Good Chryst.

I have to say that the handling of this QB situation is by far the most baffling thing this coaching staff has done.

You aren't baffled by it. I think you just explained it. However, at some point the coaches have to understand that the "Good Chryst" isn't reproducable in a pressure situation.

[Goose]

Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at U$C when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

Probably true. In the Oregon game, everything work as planned, just like practice. Good Chryst.

I have to say that the handling of this QB situation is by far the most baffling thing this coaching staff has done.

You aren't baffled by it. I think you just explained it. However, at some point the coaches have to understand that the "Good Chryst" isn't reproducable in a pressure situation.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17791.msg208621#msg208621 date=1509112911]
Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at U$C when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

Probably true. In the Oregon game, everything work as planned, just like practice. Good Chryst.

I have to say that the handling of this QB situation is by far the most baffling thing this coaching staff has done.

You aren't baffled by it. I think you just explained it. However, at some point the coaches have to understand that the "Good Chryst" isn't reproducable in a pressure situation.
[/quote]

I'm still baffled by it because the evidence that Chryst can have really, really bad games is very readily available to them, and I have trouble believing that Costello is somehow less prepared than he was against Oregon and Utah. Given that the two have similar demonstrated upsides, I really don't understand not playing Costello against ORST.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17791.msg208621#msg208621 date=1509112911]
Given the evidence it seems fairly clear at this point that, in practice, you get Good Chryst. There's nothing on the line, he can play loose, etc. But when there are problems (at SDSU where the line was bad, at U$C when we got down early, at Oregon State where we didn't have Love) he stops playing loose and we see Bad Chryst. As you've said the coaches mostly see Good Chryst. They know he can be good, better than Hogan even, and can't force themselves to see that he can also be the worst QB we've fielded since 2007.

Probably true. In the Oregon game, everything work as planned, just like practice. Good Chryst.

I have to say that the handling of this QB situation is by far the most baffling thing this coaching staff has done.

You aren't baffled by it. I think you just explained it. However, at some point the coaches have to understand that the "Good Chryst" isn't reproducable in a pressure situation.
[/quote]

I'm still baffled by it because the evidence that Chryst can have really, really bad games is very readily available to them, and I have trouble believing that Costello is somehow less prepared than he was against Oregon and Utah. Given that the two have similar demonstrated upsides, I really don't understand not playing Costello against ORST.

[ChicagoCard]

I was tempted to make this a new thread. I know it felt like mere luck to get the late turnover but it dawned on me that I haven't seen anybody give Peter K credit for a great tackle and caused fumble by Nall. Game hero, Kalambayi.

[ChicagoCard]

I was tempted to make this a new thread. I know it felt like mere luck to get the late turnover but it dawned on me that I haven't seen anybody give Peter K credit for a great tackle and caused fumble by Nall. Game hero, Kalambayi.

[Card Fan in OR]

I was tempted to make this a new thread. I know it felt like mere luck to get the late turnover but it dawned on me that I haven't seen anybody give Peter K credit for a great tackle and caused fumble by Nall. Game hero, Kalambayi.

+1.

[Card Fan in OR]

I was tempted to make this a new thread. I know it felt like mere luck to get the late turnover but it dawned on me that I haven't seen anybody give Peter K credit for a great tackle and caused fumble by Nall. Game hero, Kalambayi.

+1.