[Goose]

We got outbid.  Three of Michigan's assistants make more than $1 million annually, including both Pep Hamilton and Tim Drevno.

FWIW, I also think Hamilton is a short-timer. From what I can tell, he seems to prefer the NFL and will go back there when he gets the situation he wants.

[Goose]

We got outbid.  Three of Michigan's assistants make more than $1 million annually, including both Pep Hamilton and Tim Drevno.

FWIW, I also think Hamilton is a short-timer. From what I can tell, he seems to prefer the NFL and will go back there when he gets the situation he wants.

[Phogge]

Steve Sloan quarterbacked them to two national titles.

[Phogge]

Steve Sloan quarterbacked them to two national titles.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]

Yes, I know Namath went to Alabama, as did Richard Todd, and probably other QB's who went on to play NFL football.
The only reason I mentioned Stabler is because I enjoyed so much watching him play the position.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]

Yes, I know Namath went to Alabama, as did Richard Todd, and probably other QB's who went on to play NFL football.
The only reason I mentioned Stabler is because I enjoyed so much watching him play the position.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17413.msg201257#msg201257 date=1505693872]
[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]

Yes, I know Namath went to Alabama, as did Richard Todd, and probably other QB's who went on to play NFL football.
The only reason I mentioned Stabler is because I enjoyed so much watching him play the position.
[/quote]

Jeff Rutledge played for 14 seasons in the NFL.  Bart Starr, Packers.

Oddly enough, three of their quarterbacks in the 1920s ended up playing pro baseball (Max Rosenfeld, Grant Gillis, and Red Barnes).  Barnes was part of the first SEC team to win the Rose Bowl.  Allison Hubert, College Football hall of fame.

Walter Lewis, first African American QB for Alabama, started for the last three years of Bear Bryant's career, played in the CFL.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17413.msg201257#msg201257 date=1505693872]
[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]

Yes, I know Namath went to Alabama, as did Richard Todd, and probably other QB's who went on to play NFL football.
The only reason I mentioned Stabler is because I enjoyed so much watching him play the position.
[/quote]

Jeff Rutledge played for 14 seasons in the NFL.  Bart Starr, Packers.

Oddly enough, three of their quarterbacks in the 1920s ended up playing pro baseball (Max Rosenfeld, Grant Gillis, and Red Barnes).  Barnes was part of the first SEC team to win the Rose Bowl.  Allison Hubert, College Football hall of fame.

Walter Lewis, first African American QB for Alabama, started for the last three years of Bear Bryant's career, played in the CFL.

[doubledub]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=17413.msg201222#msg201222 date=1505683796]
This is Pritchard's fourth season as QB coach - he started in January 2014 after being promoted from RB coach. His starting QBs during those four years:
2014: Hogan
2015: Hogan
2016: Burns/Chryst
2017: Chryst/???

You could argue that he did a good job with Hogan but nobody else since that has either taken the field or hasn't earned a spot has looked questionable to just plain bad. That's not good enough, and the lack of any kind of quality QB play since Hogan left suggests that Pritchard hasn't really developed ANY recruits that have joined the team since he became the QB coach.

True, but is that because of him or because of them? Burns was always considered a "project", so when he was selected as a starter last year, it was a bit of a red flag, or at least a question mark for Chryst. From what I have seen of Chryst, he just doesn't have the fluidity that we need in a QB. He also isn't accurate. (sorry to all those who have said he was improving last year. If he was, which I didn't really see, it didn't stick. Maybe he is still hurt). We have had this discussion before, but the consensus seems to be that you can't coach accuracy. You either have it or you don't. So I can't blame Tavita. Neither can I reward him. I just don't know. This does bring up the Rosen question, but that probably was beyond Tavita's pay grade. So it is true that Tavita hasn't delivered any good QBs except (maybe) Hogan. But the sample size is too small to know it is his fault, IMHO. Unfortunately, Costello has seemed a bit all over the lot from what I have seen of him, but he at least seems to know where he wants the ball to go, and it isn't always Irwin.
[/quote]

In the interviews I have seen (in person) and heard or read, I do not recall the QBs ever mentioning or giving credit to the QB coach.  I find that to be telling.  In the one interview I saw with Tavita, he didn't say anything that made me think that he is molding QBs, he sounded more like he is a QB whisperer, i.e. Boosting their morale and being a confidant rather than someone who can develop the finer points of QB play.

[doubledub]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=17413.msg201222#msg201222 date=1505683796]
This is Pritchard's fourth season as QB coach - he started in January 2014 after being promoted from RB coach. His starting QBs during those four years:
2014: Hogan
2015: Hogan
2016: Burns/Chryst
2017: Chryst/???

You could argue that he did a good job with Hogan but nobody else since that has either taken the field or hasn't earned a spot has looked questionable to just plain bad. That's not good enough, and the lack of any kind of quality QB play since Hogan left suggests that Pritchard hasn't really developed ANY recruits that have joined the team since he became the QB coach.

True, but is that because of him or because of them? Burns was always considered a "project", so when he was selected as a starter last year, it was a bit of a red flag, or at least a question mark for Chryst. From what I have seen of Chryst, he just doesn't have the fluidity that we need in a QB. He also isn't accurate. (sorry to all those who have said he was improving last year. If he was, which I didn't really see, it didn't stick. Maybe he is still hurt). We have had this discussion before, but the consensus seems to be that you can't coach accuracy. You either have it or you don't. So I can't blame Tavita. Neither can I reward him. I just don't know. This does bring up the Rosen question, but that probably was beyond Tavita's pay grade. So it is true that Tavita hasn't delivered any good QBs except (maybe) Hogan. But the sample size is too small to know it is his fault, IMHO. Unfortunately, Costello has seemed a bit all over the lot from what I have seen of him, but he at least seems to know where he wants the ball to go, and it isn't always Irwin.
[/quote]

In the interviews I have seen (in person) and heard or read, I do not recall the QBs ever mentioning or giving credit to the QB coach.  I find that to be telling.  In the one interview I saw with Tavita, he didn't say anything that made me think that he is molding QBs, he sounded more like he is a QB whisperer, i.e. Boosting their morale and being a confidant rather than someone who can develop the finer points of QB play.

[OutsiderFan]

The reality is Chryst played 6 of the worst teams in college football in 2016 when he racked up his creds to be the 2017 starting QB.  And, he faced Rice in Game 1 of 2017.  It was fool's gold to think he had proven anything as a starter.  The only teams with a pulse Stanford has played with Chryst as a starter were, UNC, USC, and SDSU.  Stanford barely beat UNC, but so with Ryan Burns and a defense that had Solomon Thomas.

This isn't revisionist history for me.  It was clear from watching their high school videos and Spring that Costello was the better athlete and QB with more upside.  At minimum Costello and Chryst should have split time with the first unit in the Rice game, and probably USC and SDSU.  Maybe if Costello showed some more play making ability, the OL wouldn't have been blamed so much and it wouldn't be the musical chairs exercise it is now.

[OutsiderFan]

The reality is Chryst played 6 of the worst teams in college football in 2016 when he racked up his creds to be the 2017 starting QB.  And, he faced Rice in Game 1 of 2017.  It was fool's gold to think he had proven anything as a starter.  The only teams with a pulse Stanford has played with Chryst as a starter were, UNC, USC, and SDSU.  Stanford barely beat UNC, but so with Ryan Burns and a defense that had Solomon Thomas.

This isn't revisionist history for me.  It was clear from watching their high school videos and Spring that Costello was the better athlete and QB with more upside.  At minimum Costello and Chryst should have split time with the first unit in the Rice game, and probably USC and SDSU.  Maybe if Costello showed some more play making ability, the OL wouldn't have been blamed so much and it wouldn't be the musical chairs exercise it is now.

[Goose]

...Maybe if Costello showed some more play making ability, the OL wouldn't have been blamed so much and it wouldn't be the musical chairs exercise it is now.

I agree totally with everything above this sentence in your post. However, the Stanford offense is designed to rely more on the running game, and not the QB. This is on purpose, and has worked well since JH created that emphasis. If the OL is bad, we are bad, period. The QB can't fix that. What we do require is a QB that can take what the defense gives him with efficient play calling and execution. If the QB isn't efficient, the defense can attack our running game successfully. However, even if you put Andrew Luck out there, this OL would be musical chairs. How many times does our running back get hit at or behind the LOS? Way too many. Both SDSU and U$C were able to do that without totally selling out to the run. Stanford needs to own the LOS, and we haven't in the last two games. Now, if we had Luck as a QB, we could chose to be UCLA with this OL. Not sure that is the desired trade-off.

[Goose]

...Maybe if Costello showed some more play making ability, the OL wouldn't have been blamed so much and it wouldn't be the musical chairs exercise it is now.

I agree totally with everything above this sentence in your post. However, the Stanford offense is designed to rely more on the running game, and not the QB. This is on purpose, and has worked well since JH created that emphasis. If the OL is bad, we are bad, period. The QB can't fix that. What we do require is a QB that can take what the defense gives him with efficient play calling and execution. If the QB isn't efficient, the defense can attack our running game successfully. However, even if you put Andrew Luck out there, this OL would be musical chairs. How many times does our running back get hit at or behind the LOS? Way too many. Both SDSU and U$C were able to do that without totally selling out to the run. Stanford needs to own the LOS, and we haven't in the last two games. Now, if we had Luck as a QB, we could chose to be UCLA with this OL. Not sure that is the desired trade-off.

[Stymie]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

...or possibly the best college QB ever, even when having a bum knee, Joe Willie Namath.

[Stymie]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

...or possibly the best college QB ever, even when having a bum knee, Joe Willie Namath.

[stupac2]

[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]

I thought McCarron had already flamed out of the NFL, but it appears he's still on the Bengals. Still, when Saban's Alabama players litter the NFL and have Pro-Bowl-caliber players at pretty much every position, it's notable that the best QB they've produced is backing up Andy Dalton. If reliably finding a top-flight college QB were easy, Saban could do it, and even he can't.

[stupac2]

[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]

I thought McCarron had already flamed out of the NFL, but it appears he's still on the Bengals. Still, when Saban's Alabama players litter the NFL and have Pro-Bowl-caliber players at pretty much every position, it's notable that the best QB they've produced is backing up Andy Dalton. If reliably finding a top-flight college QB were easy, Saban could do it, and even he can't.

[ColoradoTree]

And speaking of Andy Dalton, he's a pretty perfect example of this phenomenon:

Good OLine play will make an average QB look good, a good QB will look great. Look at U$C.  Good OL, good QB =    . Fix the OL, were are fine. Costello is not the fix.

As far as Shaw looking in the mirror, we have been calling for that since the Fiesta Bowl.

The Bengals have had an above average offensive line the last several years (even factoring in the revolving door at RT they had last year), but lost two very good starters to free agency.  Now that the OL is considerably worse, Dalton appears to have regressed.  I don't think he has; I just think he's had a good OL giving him extra time to mask his deficiencies over the past few years.

[ColoradoTree]

And speaking of Andy Dalton, he's a pretty perfect example of this phenomenon:

Good OLine play will make an average QB look good, a good QB will look great. Look at U$C.  Good OL, good QB =    . Fix the OL, were are fine. Costello is not the fix.

As far as Shaw looking in the mirror, we have been calling for that since the Fiesta Bowl.

The Bengals have had an above average offensive line the last several years (even factoring in the revolving door at RT they had last year), but lost two very good starters to free agency.  Now that the OL is considerably worse, Dalton appears to have regressed.  I don't think he has; I just think he's had a good OL giving him extra time to mask his deficiencies over the past few years.

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17413.msg201257#msg201257 date=1505693872]
[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]
If reliably finding a top-flight college QB were easy, Saban could do it, and even he can't.
[/quote]

Top flight QB's want to play for Stanford, not Alabama  :)

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=17413.msg201257#msg201257 date=1505693872]
[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17413.msg201226#msg201226 date=1505685369]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17413.msg201200#msg201200 date=1505678508]
I said this elsewhere, but think about Alabama. Have they ever had a great QB? .

The late, great, Ken Stabler !
[/quote]

Some guy named Namath was pretty good. 

AJ McCarron was 36-4 as a starter, won the Maxwell Award, selected in the fifth round.
[/quote]
If reliably finding a top-flight college QB were easy, Saban could do it, and even he can't.
[/quote]

Top flight QB's want to play for Stanford, not Alabama  :)

[fullmetal]

...why aren't we getting those top-flight QBs on the field?

[fullmetal]

...why aren't we getting those top-flight QBs on the field?

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

...why aren't we getting those top-flight QBs on the field?

Once Costello gets his chance ..........

[SF_Cardinal_Fan]

...why aren't we getting those top-flight QBs on the field?

Once Costello gets his chance ..........

[BobK]

Top Flight?? Chryst was a Top 100 player on all 4 sites. 
Costello top 20 on some. 

[BobK]

Top Flight?? Chryst was a Top 100 player on all 4 sites. 
Costello top 20 on some. 

[Cadwallon]

I'm clearly not an offensive football genius, but I have some questions.

From what I've seen, an approach when your offensive line is iffy is to use short to medium timing passes on a short drop (if you want to use play action).  The offensive line then only needs to hold their blocks for short time.  Is this correct?  It seems that the Cardinal haven't used that strategy much.  This is puzzling because the presence of a talented tight end stable plus JJAW would seem to be custom made for this approach.  Perhaps the problem is that for this timing pass approach to work, the quarterback and the receivers really have to be on the same page.  Perhaps Chryst lacks the confidence to make this happen or maybe his slow release is not suited to this?  If this is the case perhaps Costello's mechanics and personality might fit this approach better.  Also, I think a short to medium passing game might well help the running game since the linebackers would have to worry more about their drops and not crowd the line of scrimmage.  Does any of this make sense?

[Cadwallon]

I'm clearly not an offensive football genius, but I have some questions.

From what I've seen, an approach when your offensive line is iffy is to use short to medium timing passes on a short drop (if you want to use play action).  The offensive line then only needs to hold their blocks for short time.  Is this correct?  It seems that the Cardinal haven't used that strategy much.  This is puzzling because the presence of a talented tight end stable plus JJAW would seem to be custom made for this approach.  Perhaps the problem is that for this timing pass approach to work, the quarterback and the receivers really have to be on the same page.  Perhaps Chryst lacks the confidence to make this happen or maybe his slow release is not suited to this?  If this is the case perhaps Costello's mechanics and personality might fit this approach better.  Also, I think a short to medium passing game might well help the running game since the linebackers would have to worry more about their drops and not crowd the line of scrimmage.  Does any of this make sense?

[Hey]

These QB's all look so good on their highlight tapes, but then we only get to see the highlights.  Very select sample size.  What I saw of Costello vs. Rice, and just his enthusiasm on the sidelines for his teammates made me very anxious to see him play over Chryst and Burns. 

Giving Shaw the benefit of knowing what I don't know, he might be saving him to put him in a more advantageous position like he did with Chryst last year.  Burns got beat up on all the good teams, and Chryst got to coast against all the patsies.

Still wish we played Luck when he was a true freshman.

[Hey]

These QB's all look so good on their highlight tapes, but then we only get to see the highlights.  Very select sample size.  What I saw of Costello vs. Rice, and just his enthusiasm on the sidelines for his teammates made me very anxious to see him play over Chryst and Burns. 

Giving Shaw the benefit of knowing what I don't know, he might be saving him to put him in a more advantageous position like he did with Chryst last year.  Burns got beat up on all the good teams, and Chryst got to coast against all the patsies.

Still wish we played Luck when he was a true freshman.

[fullmetal]

It's almost like the QBs (Burns, Chryst) are overthinking things...as if they were afraid to make the wrong call.  Paging coaching staff--hope y'all aren't beating up the kids over small stuff without proportionally praising their great plays.

Didn't see the game--were there any delay of game penalties?

[fullmetal]

It's almost like the QBs (Burns, Chryst) are overthinking things...as if they were afraid to make the wrong call.  Paging coaching staff--hope y'all aren't beating up the kids over small stuff without proportionally praising their great plays.

Didn't see the game--were there any delay of game penalties?

[BostonCard]

It's almost like the QBs (Burns, Chryst) are overthinking things...as if they were afraid to make the wrong call.  Paging coaching staff--hope y'all aren't beating up the kids over small stuff without proportionally praising their great plays.

Didn't see the game--were there any delay of game penalties?

I believe there was at least one... by SDSU.  Or maybe they called a time out.

Also, each team had a substitution infraction for 12men in the huddle.

BC

[BostonCard]

It's almost like the QBs (Burns, Chryst) are overthinking things...as if they were afraid to make the wrong call.  Paging coaching staff--hope y'all aren't beating up the kids over small stuff without proportionally praising their great plays.

Didn't see the game--were there any delay of game penalties?

I believe there was at least one... by SDSU.  Or maybe they called a time out.

Also, each team had a substitution infraction for 12men in the huddle.

BC

[Cadwallon]

"It's almost like the QBs (Burns, Chryst) are overthinking things...as if they were afraid to make the wrong call.  Paging coaching staff--hope y'all aren't beating up the kids over small stuff without proportionally praising their great plays."

This is in line with what I was talking about above.  If you have a dominant offensive line you can afford to have slow developing and possibly long passing plays that give the quarterback time to think about what he's going to do.  But, we don't have this right now.  What we need is a quarterback with the mentality of a tennis player who "knows" he can hit the ball down the line into a very tight window and just does it instantaneously.  I think this mentality can to an extent be developed with encouragement from the coaches, but it comes much more easily to some people than others.

[Cadwallon]

"It's almost like the QBs (Burns, Chryst) are overthinking things...as if they were afraid to make the wrong call.  Paging coaching staff--hope y'all aren't beating up the kids over small stuff without proportionally praising their great plays."

This is in line with what I was talking about above.  If you have a dominant offensive line you can afford to have slow developing and possibly long passing plays that give the quarterback time to think about what he's going to do.  But, we don't have this right now.  What we need is a quarterback with the mentality of a tennis player who "knows" he can hit the ball down the line into a very tight window and just does it instantaneously.  I think this mentality can to an extent be developed with encouragement from the coaches, but it comes much more easily to some people than others.

[lex24]

And wasnt Mills top 10???

Top Flight?? Chryst was a Top 100 player on all 4 sites. 
Costello top 20 on some.

[lex24]

And wasnt Mills top 10???

Top Flight?? Chryst was a Top 100 player on all 4 sites. 
Costello top 20 on some.