01-09-2017, 10:40 PM
The NCAA may start cracking down on "rubs"... you may see more offensive passive interference soon.
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The CFB National Championship Game Monday Night
The NCAA may start cracking down on "rubs"... you may see more offensive passive interference soon.
BC
BC
01-09-2017, 10:41 PM
Ugh. Clemson has the single dirtiest player in the college game this year, Boulware, a linebacker who literally tried to choke out Lamar Jackson after the whistle.
Happy for Deshaun Watson.
Not a fan of "Let's talk about sin" Swinney, but maybe that says more about me than him.
Bama was the better team, but not without their top running back. Not sure if Sark would be hired after that performance. Will Saban make a move?
Happy for Deshaun Watson.
Not a fan of "Let's talk about sin" Swinney, but maybe that says more about me than him.
Bama was the better team, but not without their top running back. Not sure if Sark would be hired after that performance. Will Saban make a move?
Ugh. Clemson has the single dirtiest player in the college game this year, Boulware, a linebacker who literally tried to choke out Lamar Jackson after the whistle.
Happy for Deshaun Watson.
Not a fan of "Let's talk about sin" Swinney, but maybe that says more about me than him.
Bama was the better team, but not without their top running back. Not sure if Sark would be hired after that performance. Will Saban make a move?
Happy for Deshaun Watson.
Not a fan of "Let's talk about sin" Swinney, but maybe that says more about me than him.
Bama was the better team, but not without their top running back. Not sure if Sark would be hired after that performance. Will Saban make a move?
01-09-2017, 10:52 PM
At any rate, if Clemson can do it, no reason Stanford can't -- Watson was the equalizer between the two teams, and Stanford has had a handful of QBs at his level. Just a matter of hoping the stars align.
At any rate, if Clemson can do it, no reason Stanford can't -- Watson was the equalizer between the two teams, and Stanford has had a handful of QBs at his level. Just a matter of hoping the stars align.
01-09-2017, 10:55 PM
(01-09-2017, 10:40 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:The NCAA may start cracking down on "rubs"... you may see more offensive passive interference soon.
BC
The Bama CB grabbed the WR who was doing the rubbing. It wasn't really OPI in the context of a pick.Â
(01-09-2017, 10:40 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:The NCAA may start cracking down on "rubs"... you may see more offensive passive interference soon.
BC
The Bama CB grabbed the WR who was doing the rubbing. It wasn't really OPI in the context of a pick.Â
01-09-2017, 11:02 PM
(01-09-2017, 10:52 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:At any rate, if Clemson can do it, no reason Stanford can't -- Watson was the equalizer between the two teams, and Stanford has had a handful of QBs at his level. Just a matter of hoping the stars align.
To look at it another way, we've had at least one championship-level defense, and probably two championship-level offenses. All it takes (I know, I know) is having both at the same time. It's not impossible.
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
(01-09-2017, 10:52 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:At any rate, if Clemson can do it, no reason Stanford can't -- Watson was the equalizer between the two teams, and Stanford has had a handful of QBs at his level. Just a matter of hoping the stars align.
To look at it another way, we've had at least one championship-level defense, and probably two championship-level offenses. All it takes (I know, I know) is having both at the same time. It's not impossible.
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
01-09-2017, 11:03 PM
Alabama clemsoned.
"We should all be better." --- Bill Walton, UCLA telecast, Feb. 16, 2013
Alabama clemsoned.
"We should all be better." --- Bill Walton, UCLA telecast, Feb. 16, 2013
01-09-2017, 11:05 PM
(01-09-2017, 11:03 PM)SamAtoms1980 link Wrote:Alabama clemsoned.
I was rooting hard for overtime, just for the fun it would've provided. Now I realize what we missed out on: "Alabama Clemson Tied."
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
01-09-2017, 11:30 PM
Clemson this year beat the winners of the last 7 national championships...Ala, OSU, FSU, Auburn, per post game show.
Clemson this year beat the winners of the last 7 national championships...Ala, OSU, FSU, Auburn, per post game show.
01-10-2017, 12:08 AM
(01-09-2017, 10:55 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=16412.msg185761#msg185761 date=1484026812]
The NCAA may start cracking down on "rubs"... you may see more offensive passive interference soon.
BC
The Bama CB grabbed the WR who was doing the rubbing. It wasn't really OPI in the context of a pick.
[/quote]
I wasn't referring to the winning touchdown, which appeared legal as best I could tell; I was speaking more generally.
BC
(01-09-2017, 10:55 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=16412.msg185761#msg185761 date=1484026812]
The NCAA may start cracking down on "rubs"... you may see more offensive passive interference soon.
BC
The Bama CB grabbed the WR who was doing the rubbing. It wasn't really OPI in the context of a pick.
[/quote]
I wasn't referring to the winning touchdown, which appeared legal as best I could tell; I was speaking more generally.
BC
01-10-2017, 07:24 AM
I can't remember where I heard it, but a "rub" is legal provided that the rubbing receiver makes some kind of effort to get open and/or present himself to the QB by facing him with hands up.
On the last TD the Alabama DB was basically tackling the Clemson WR doing the rubbing so I don't think that was OPI. But at least one other TD pass earlier in the game was.
On the last TD the Alabama DB was basically tackling the Clemson WR doing the rubbing so I don't think that was OPI. But at least one other TD pass earlier in the game was.
I can't remember where I heard it, but a "rub" is legal provided that the rubbing receiver makes some kind of effort to get open and/or present himself to the QB by facing him with hands up.
On the last TD the Alabama DB was basically tackling the Clemson WR doing the rubbing so I don't think that was OPI. But at least one other TD pass earlier in the game was.
On the last TD the Alabama DB was basically tackling the Clemson WR doing the rubbing so I don't think that was OPI. But at least one other TD pass earlier in the game was.
01-10-2017, 08:09 AM
You can bet Nick Saban and other defensive coaches will spend their whole off seasons developing a better defense against rub routes. It seems to me the best way to defend that play is to have the CB and Safety attack the receivers by going straight at them at the snap. The downside of this is if a receiver can get around and behind the DB at the LOS, it's an easy TD.
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.Â
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.Â
You can bet Nick Saban and other defensive coaches will spend their whole off seasons developing a better defense against rub routes. It seems to me the best way to defend that play is to have the CB and Safety attack the receivers by going straight at them at the snap. The downside of this is if a receiver can get around and behind the DB at the LOS, it's an easy TD.
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.Â
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.Â
01-10-2017, 08:20 AM
(01-10-2017, 08:09 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:You can bet Nick Saban and other defensive coaches will spend their whole off seasons developing a better defense against rub routes. It seems to me the best way to defend that play is to have the CB and Safety attack the receivers by going straight at them at the snap. The downside of this is if a receiver can get around and behind the DB at the LOS, it's an easy TD.
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.
that is why Shawgren have the fade to JJAW as their other play inside the 3 yard line. :)
(01-10-2017, 08:09 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:You can bet Nick Saban and other defensive coaches will spend their whole off seasons developing a better defense against rub routes. It seems to me the best way to defend that play is to have the CB and Safety attack the receivers by going straight at them at the snap. The downside of this is if a receiver can get around and behind the DB at the LOS, it's an easy TD.
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.
that is why Shawgren have the fade to JJAW as their other play inside the 3 yard line. :)
01-10-2017, 09:20 AM
(01-10-2017, 07:24 AM)winflop link Wrote:I can't remember where I heard it, but a "rub" is legal provided that the rubbing receiver makes some kind of effort to get open and/or present himself to the QB by facing him with hands up.I don't think that is correct. Clearly, a receiver can't go down field, push the defender away, then turn around and present himself to the QB/catch a pass. I think the contact has to be "incidental" or initiated by the defender. Both players have a right to their position on the field. Both players have a right to the ball. So if the offensive player can make it plausible that he didn't initiate the contact or was trying to catch the ball, it probably isn't OPI, or at least it is a credible no call. That is why on the one touchdown the I think we both agree was OPI, the receiver made a big show of turning around and putting up his hand after he had blocked two guys and the ball was past him. But it wasn't a credible acting job.
A legal "rub" play occurs when the defender has to run around another offensive player who has a right to be where he is on the field. There are gray areas, probably too many.
Quote:On the last TD the Alabama DB was basically tackling the Clemson WR doing the rubbing so I don't think that was OPI. But at least one other TD pass earlier in the game was.I agree with your evaluation.
(01-10-2017, 07:24 AM)winflop link Wrote:I can't remember where I heard it, but a "rub" is legal provided that the rubbing receiver makes some kind of effort to get open and/or present himself to the QB by facing him with hands up.I don't think that is correct. Clearly, a receiver can't go down field, push the defender away, then turn around and present himself to the QB/catch a pass. I think the contact has to be "incidental" or initiated by the defender. Both players have a right to their position on the field. Both players have a right to the ball. So if the offensive player can make it plausible that he didn't initiate the contact or was trying to catch the ball, it probably isn't OPI, or at least it is a credible no call. That is why on the one touchdown the I think we both agree was OPI, the receiver made a big show of turning around and putting up his hand after he had blocked two guys and the ball was past him. But it wasn't a credible acting job.
A legal "rub" play occurs when the defender has to run around another offensive player who has a right to be where he is on the field. There are gray areas, probably too many.
Quote:On the last TD the Alabama DB was basically tackling the Clemson WR doing the rubbing so I don't think that was OPI. But at least one other TD pass earlier in the game was.I agree with your evaluation.
01-10-2017, 09:35 AM
I'm surprised about the commentary here on rubs, that's been a basic of every NFL offense for years now, and I'm sure Stanford has more than a few. Do we really never crossing routes? That's more or less all you're looking for. The problem for Alabama, at least from what I saw, was that the rubs used their DB's hyper-aggression against them, in that they either hugged the wrong receiver (lol) or ran into their own guy. Defending those competently isn't terribly hard, but you have to know when to take a step back and go around your own guy, and with a good QB/WR it's still a completion, just for 5 yards instead of 10+. I'm kind of surprised no one managed to do that against Alabama before, maybe their ferocious pass rush just never let it work?
Also, if Scarborough doesn't go down Clemson loses. After that Alabama's running game just wasn't the same, and it was clear that Hurts is not anywhere close to Watkins's level, at least not yet.
Also, if Scarborough doesn't go down Clemson loses. After that Alabama's running game just wasn't the same, and it was clear that Hurts is not anywhere close to Watkins's level, at least not yet.
I'm surprised about the commentary here on rubs, that's been a basic of every NFL offense for years now, and I'm sure Stanford has more than a few. Do we really never crossing routes? That's more or less all you're looking for. The problem for Alabama, at least from what I saw, was that the rubs used their DB's hyper-aggression against them, in that they either hugged the wrong receiver (lol) or ran into their own guy. Defending those competently isn't terribly hard, but you have to know when to take a step back and go around your own guy, and with a good QB/WR it's still a completion, just for 5 yards instead of 10+. I'm kind of surprised no one managed to do that against Alabama before, maybe their ferocious pass rush just never let it work?
Also, if Scarborough doesn't go down Clemson loses. After that Alabama's running game just wasn't the same, and it was clear that Hurts is not anywhere close to Watkins's level, at least not yet.
Also, if Scarborough doesn't go down Clemson loses. After that Alabama's running game just wasn't the same, and it was clear that Hurts is not anywhere close to Watkins's level, at least not yet.
01-10-2017, 09:36 AM
Although can you imagine if that play took one more second and was incomplete? Clemson on the two yard line and never attempts the tying field goal. I thought Clemson's time management at the end was a little off, until it wasn't.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working .I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. Peter Gibbons
Although can you imagine if that play took one more second and was incomplete? Clemson on the two yard line and never attempts the tying field goal. I thought Clemson's time management at the end was a little off, until it wasn't.
Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working .I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. Peter Gibbons
01-10-2017, 09:47 AM
(01-10-2017, 09:35 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:Defending those competently isn't terribly hard, but you have to know when to take a step back and go around your own guy, and with a good QB/WR it's still a completion, just for 5 yards instead of 10+.Yep, and when you are on the three yard line, that is just fine.
(01-10-2017, 09:35 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:Defending those competently isn't terribly hard, but you have to know when to take a step back and go around your own guy, and with a good QB/WR it's still a completion, just for 5 yards instead of 10+.Yep, and when you are on the three yard line, that is just fine.
01-10-2017, 09:58 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2017, 10:00 AM by cardcrimson.)
(01-10-2017, 08:09 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:You can bet Nick Saban and other defensive coaches will spend their whole off seasons developing a better defense against rub routes. It seems to me the best way to defend that play is to have the CB and Safety attack the receivers by going straight at them at the snap. The downside of this is if a receiver can get around and behind the DB at the LOS, it's an easy TD.
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.
I'm no defensive genius, but why don't the defenders switch like they do in basketball. . . .
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2017, 10:00 AM by cardcrimson.)
(01-10-2017, 08:09 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:You can bet Nick Saban and other defensive coaches will spend their whole off seasons developing a better defense against rub routes. It seems to me the best way to defend that play is to have the CB and Safety attack the receivers by going straight at them at the snap. The downside of this is if a receiver can get around and behind the DB at the LOS, it's an easy TD.
As always, it's a chess game out there. The whole winning play was executed beautifully by Clemson, from the OL blocking scheme, to the route execution, the rollout, the throw and catch.
Hopefully Shaw and Bloomgren were inspired to see a TD scored inside the 3 yard line without a jumbo, tight formation.
I'm no defensive genius, but why don't the defenders switch like they do in basketball. . . .
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
01-10-2017, 10:07 AM
(01-10-2017, 09:58 AM)cardcrimson link Wrote:I'm no defensive genius, but why don't the defenders switch like they do in basketball. . . .In basketball, moving screens/picks are illegal. In football, most (but not all) of the picks are moving at full speed in almost opposite directions. It is impossible to stop from full speed and run the other way (while the offensive player doesn't even slow down) without creating separation, which is what the offense wants anyway.
(01-10-2017, 09:58 AM)cardcrimson link Wrote:I'm no defensive genius, but why don't the defenders switch like they do in basketball. . . .In basketball, moving screens/picks are illegal. In football, most (but not all) of the picks are moving at full speed in almost opposite directions. It is impossible to stop from full speed and run the other way (while the offensive player doesn't even slow down) without creating separation, which is what the offense wants anyway.
01-10-2017, 10:11 AM
(01-09-2017, 07:42 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Dirty or not, Alabama is toying with Clemson. This year it has been clear that Alabama was far and away the best team, Clemson was the best of the rest, and there is a big gap between them and all of the pretenders.
BC
Umm . . . what was that again? ;)
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
(01-09-2017, 07:42 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Dirty or not, Alabama is toying with Clemson. This year it has been clear that Alabama was far and away the best team, Clemson was the best of the rest, and there is a big gap between them and all of the pretenders.
BC
Umm . . . what was that again? ;)
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
01-10-2017, 10:11 AM
(01-10-2017, 09:58 AM)cardcrimson link Wrote:I'm no defensive genius, but why don't the defenders switch like they do in basketball. . . .
This is actually the theory behind Nick Saban's "pattern matching" style of defensive back play: http://grantland.com/features/dick-lebea...one-blitz/
(01-10-2017, 09:58 AM)cardcrimson link Wrote:I'm no defensive genius, but why don't the defenders switch like they do in basketball. . . .
This is actually the theory behind Nick Saban's "pattern matching" style of defensive back play: http://grantland.com/features/dick-lebea...one-blitz/
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