[BostonCard]

https://twitter.com/tymontgomery2/status...2354590720

He is now fifth in Stanford history in all purpose yardage with 5,098 yards (almost 1000 of them have come in the three games against USC in the last 12 months).  He will almost undoubtably catch up to Ty Montgomery next game, and there's a good chance he will move up to third after UW and second later this year.  If he keeps up his current pace of 235 AP yards per game, he will own the record after Big Game.

BC

[BostonCard]

https://twitter.com/tymontgomery2/status...2354590720

He is now fifth in Stanford history in all purpose yardage with 5,098 yards (almost 1000 of them have come in the three games against USC in the last 12 months).  He will almost undoubtably catch up to Ty Montgomery next game, and there's a good chance he will move up to third after UW and second later this year.  If he keeps up his current pace of 235 AP yards per game, he will own the record after Big Game.

BC

[BostonCard]

And David Shaw's:

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status...9312540672

Now second all-time for Stanford wins.  He's 15 behind Pop Warner, which means unless everything turns to crap he will pass Warner next year.

BC

[BostonCard]

And David Shaw's:

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status...9312540672

Now second all-time for Stanford wins.  He's 15 behind Pop Warner, which means unless everything turns to crap he will pass Warner next year.

BC

[martyup]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.  I guess we need to win a NC to shake that assumption once and for all.

[martyup]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.  I guess we need to win a NC to shake that assumption once and for all.

[French Rage]

And David Shaw's:

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status...9312540672

Now second all-time for Stanford wins.  He's 15 behind Pop Warner, which means unless everything turns to crap he will pass Warner next year.

BC

Hopefully in week 2!

[French Rage]

And David Shaw's:

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status...9312540672

Now second all-time for Stanford wins.  He's 15 behind Pop Warner, which means unless everything turns to crap he will pass Warner next year.

BC

Hopefully in week 2!

[Hank 91]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.  I guess we need to win a NC to shake that assumption once and for all.

I want to let this go, but I can't. This line of thinking is so ridiculous.

[Hank 91]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.  I guess we need to win a NC to shake that assumption once and for all.

I want to let this go, but I can't. This line of thinking is so ridiculous.

[terry]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

Shaw won the Pac-12, won the Rose Bowl, and finished #3 in the nation 5 years after Harbaugh left, without a single player on the roster who played for Harbaugh. It's pretty hard to argue that Harbaugh deserves credit for that.

[terry]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

Shaw won the Pac-12, won the Rose Bowl, and finished #3 in the nation 5 years after Harbaugh left, without a single player on the roster who played for Harbaugh. It's pretty hard to argue that Harbaugh deserves credit for that.

[fullmetal]

Maybe dad-in-law thinks that Shaw is "merely" sustaining Harbaugh's elevation of the program...not many coaches have done even that.  While Wisconsin was busy losing 6-10 to Iowa last year, Stanford destroyed Iowa in the Rose Bowl.

It's about the 10-year anniversary of the 1-11 season.  We've come a long way!

edit: oops, wrong UW on the brain

[fullmetal]

Maybe dad-in-law thinks that Shaw is "merely" sustaining Harbaugh's elevation of the program...not many coaches have done even that.  While Wisconsin was busy losing 6-10 to Iowa last year, Stanford destroyed Iowa in the Rose Bowl.

It's about the 10-year anniversary of the 1-11 season.  We've come a long way!

edit: oops, wrong UW on the brain

[Mick]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=15706.msg171842#msg171842 date=1474260268]
I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

Shaw won the Pac-12, won the Rose Bowl, and finished #3 in the nation 5 years after Harbaugh left, without a single player on the roster who played for Harbaugh. It's pretty hard to argue that Harbaugh deserves credit for that.
[/quote]

+1,000.  Especially since, with respect, (a) Harbaugh's teams never finished #3 and (b) never beat SC twice in a season and © Shaw was a coach on those teams as well.

[Mick]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=15706.msg171842#msg171842 date=1474260268]
I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

Shaw won the Pac-12, won the Rose Bowl, and finished #3 in the nation 5 years after Harbaugh left, without a single player on the roster who played for Harbaugh. It's pretty hard to argue that Harbaugh deserves credit for that.
[/quote]

+1,000.  Especially since, with respect, (a) Harbaugh's teams never finished #3 and (b) never beat SC twice in a season and © Shaw was a coach on those teams as well.

[ChicagoCard]

At this point it's just a generic put-down. Some UW fans maintain a bitterness toward Stanford for Bill Walsh's criticism of their program in the early '90s.

[ChicagoCard]

At this point it's just a generic put-down. Some UW fans maintain a bitterness toward Stanford for Bill Walsh's criticism of their program in the early '90s.

[FarmBoy]

Maybe dad-in-law thinks that Shaw is "merely" sustaining Harbaugh's elevation of the program.

I think this is at the root of every Shaw criticism. Perhaps some people define a great coach as someone who can come into any situation and make/keep it a winner. In the case of Shaw, we do lack evidence that he can take a loser and build it into a winner. There is a reasonable question about how he will handle the inevitable down season (and not 8-5 down like 2014, but losing season(s) down).

It is strange that Shaw gets hit with this when guys like Chip Kelly and Jimbo Fisher don't (although in the case of the latter, I guess you get a free pass on not proving yourself as a "builder" if you win a NC). I suspect it has to do with DS's laid back, low key personality. To the outsider, he may not appear very dynamic and engaged.

I don't mind of outsiders don't view him as a mercurial talent. The less coveting of his coaching ability, the better for keeping him on the farm.

[FarmBoy]

Maybe dad-in-law thinks that Shaw is "merely" sustaining Harbaugh's elevation of the program.

I think this is at the root of every Shaw criticism. Perhaps some people define a great coach as someone who can come into any situation and make/keep it a winner. In the case of Shaw, we do lack evidence that he can take a loser and build it into a winner. There is a reasonable question about how he will handle the inevitable down season (and not 8-5 down like 2014, but losing season(s) down).

It is strange that Shaw gets hit with this when guys like Chip Kelly and Jimbo Fisher don't (although in the case of the latter, I guess you get a free pass on not proving yourself as a "builder" if you win a NC). I suspect it has to do with DS's laid back, low key personality. To the outsider, he may not appear very dynamic and engaged.

I don't mind of outsiders don't view him as a mercurial talent. The less coveting of his coaching ability, the better for keeping him on the farm.

[CTcard]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

As far as I am concerned Shaw can keep riding those coat tails for the next 30 years.

[CTcard]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

As far as I am concerned Shaw can keep riding those coat tails for the next 30 years.

[washingtonismoney]

Shaw suffers in public perception for a few reasons:

1) People don't credit sustaining success the same way they credit a turnaround, which is foolish.
2) He's not an offensive "genius" -- though Stanford offenses have been reasonably successful, they aren't flashy in a schematic sense.
3) His gameday coaching has its foibles (too many 4th down punts, etc.), and people overrate what coaches do on gameday while underrating literally everything else.
4) Personality-wise, he's just kind of calm: he doesn't offer entertainment in the same way a Harbaugh does.

Of course the real answer to most of these concerns is, "who cares?" But we're just describing rather than endorsing.

[washingtonismoney]

Shaw suffers in public perception for a few reasons:

1) People don't credit sustaining success the same way they credit a turnaround, which is foolish.
2) He's not an offensive "genius" -- though Stanford offenses have been reasonably successful, they aren't flashy in a schematic sense.
3) His gameday coaching has its foibles (too many 4th down punts, etc.), and people overrate what coaches do on gameday while underrating literally everything else.
4) Personality-wise, he's just kind of calm: he doesn't offer entertainment in the same way a Harbaugh does.

Of course the real answer to most of these concerns is, "who cares?" But we're just describing rather than endorsing.

[winflop]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

Tell him that jealousy will get him nowhere and see you on Sept 30 :P

[winflop]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.

Tell him that jealousy will get him nowhere and see you on Sept 30 :P

[rudruff]

The best response to a UW fan talking trash is


"Tyrone Willingham was a great coach for Stanford. He got us to a Rose Bowl. He won Big Game 7 years in a row. His time at Stanford was some of my happiest memories. But after talking to you, I think I appreciate his time at UW more."

Note: also works for Domers

[rudruff]

The best response to a UW fan talking trash is


"Tyrone Willingham was a great coach for Stanford. He got us to a Rose Bowl. He won Big Game 7 years in a row. His time at Stanford was some of my happiest memories. But after talking to you, I think I appreciate his time at UW more."

Note: also works for Domers

[DC 86]

I don't mind of outsiders don't view him as a mercurial talent. The less coveting of his coaching ability, the better for keeping him on the farm.

Other fan bases may underrate him but NFL front offices and major program athletic directors definitely covet his coaching ability. He clearly likes his situation at Stanford, but if he was interested in moving to the NFL (or another college job) the opportunity is there right now regardless of how he is perceived by casual fans.

[DC 86]

I don't mind of outsiders don't view him as a mercurial talent. The less coveting of his coaching ability, the better for keeping him on the farm.

Other fan bases may underrate him but NFL front offices and major program athletic directors definitely covet his coaching ability. He clearly likes his situation at Stanford, but if he was interested in moving to the NFL (or another college job) the opportunity is there right now regardless of how he is perceived by casual fans.

[2006alum]

I actually think we would have performed worse if Harbaugh had stayed. He's hard-wired to rebuild programs and loves outsized challenges and likes to have a scrappy, underdog mentality. But I don't think he has the patience or attention span to maintain success over time, and I also think his bizarre antics get old after a while. We'll see where Michigan is in 4 or 5 years but I just don't see him as somebody who has Shaw's quiet but relentless work ethic for maintaining success.

Also, the idea that Shaw is riding Harbaugh's coattails is absurd. We have 3 Rose Bowl appearances since Harbaugh left, and two WINS. There is no way you achieve that with the kind of talent Stanford can attract (some standouts, but hardly stocked with first round picks) without being a top notch coach. Simply no way.

[2006alum]

I actually think we would have performed worse if Harbaugh had stayed. He's hard-wired to rebuild programs and loves outsized challenges and likes to have a scrappy, underdog mentality. But I don't think he has the patience or attention span to maintain success over time, and I also think his bizarre antics get old after a while. We'll see where Michigan is in 4 or 5 years but I just don't see him as somebody who has Shaw's quiet but relentless work ethic for maintaining success.

Also, the idea that Shaw is riding Harbaugh's coattails is absurd. We have 3 Rose Bowl appearances since Harbaugh left, and two WINS. There is no way you achieve that with the kind of talent Stanford can attract (some standouts, but hardly stocked with first round picks) without being a top notch coach. Simply no way.

[CornFed]

I wouldn't trade David Shaw for Jim Harbaugh for anything.  I'm amazed at and deeply grateful for what they did, together and with the other coaches, to bring about this ascendant period in Stanford football history.  I am, however, also grateful that Shaw is totally in charge now.  It is IMHO a blessing that it has worked out this way.

[CornFed]

I wouldn't trade David Shaw for Jim Harbaugh for anything.  I'm amazed at and deeply grateful for what they did, together and with the other coaches, to bring about this ascendant period in Stanford football history.  I am, however, also grateful that Shaw is totally in charge now.  It is IMHO a blessing that it has worked out this way.

[cardcrimson]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.  I guess we need to win a NC to shake that assumption once and for all.

So's Jim Tomsula, right?

[cardcrimson]

I have a father-in-law who is a big UW fan.  He still says that Shaw is not that good and is riding on the coat tails of Harbaugh.  I guess we need to win a NC to shake that assumption once and for all.

So's Jim Tomsula, right?

[BostonCard]

Shaw suffers in public perception for a few reasons:

1) People don't credit sustaining success the same way they credit a turnaround, which is foolish.
2) He's not an offensive "genius" -- though Stanford offenses have been reasonably successful, they aren't flashy in a schematic sense.
3) His gameday coaching has its foibles (too many 4th down punts, etc.), and people overrate what coaches do on gameday while underrating literally everything else.
4) Personality-wise, he's just kind of calm: he doesn't offer entertainment in the same way a Harbaugh does.

Of course the real answer to most of these concerns is, "who cares?" But we're just describing rather than endorsing.

A) I completely agree with "who cares".  I'm tickled pink by having David Shaw as our coach; I don't need any external validation of that.  I think we can be secure enough that we have a winner that it doesn't matter what fans of other programs say.

B) As for why he suffers, I think it is largely #4.  He is just not into self-promotion and takes an understated approach to everything.  You don't get the antics of Harbaugh or the drama of USC; Shaw appears to be permanently in "coachspeak" mode, so you could never imagine him in a million years having a "what's your deal" moment like Harbaugh does.

BC

[BostonCard]

Shaw suffers in public perception for a few reasons:

1) People don't credit sustaining success the same way they credit a turnaround, which is foolish.
2) He's not an offensive "genius" -- though Stanford offenses have been reasonably successful, they aren't flashy in a schematic sense.
3) His gameday coaching has its foibles (too many 4th down punts, etc.), and people overrate what coaches do on gameday while underrating literally everything else.
4) Personality-wise, he's just kind of calm: he doesn't offer entertainment in the same way a Harbaugh does.

Of course the real answer to most of these concerns is, "who cares?" But we're just describing rather than endorsing.

A) I completely agree with "who cares".  I'm tickled pink by having David Shaw as our coach; I don't need any external validation of that.  I think we can be secure enough that we have a winner that it doesn't matter what fans of other programs say.

B) As for why he suffers, I think it is largely #4.  He is just not into self-promotion and takes an understated approach to everything.  You don't get the antics of Harbaugh or the drama of USC; Shaw appears to be permanently in "coachspeak" mode, so you could never imagine him in a million years having a "what's your deal" moment like Harbaugh does.

BC

[cardcrimson]

Out of curiosity, wasn't this a suppose to be a thread on McCaffrey?  ;)

[cardcrimson]

Out of curiosity, wasn't this a suppose to be a thread on McCaffrey?  ;)