[washingtonismoney]

Hmmmmm

https://twitter.com/CoachDavidShaw/statu...8857977856

[washingtonismoney]

Hmmmmm

https://twitter.com/CoachDavidShaw/statu...8857977856

[OutsiderFan]

This is quite interesting.  It suggests someone has been bad mouthing Stanford to recruits.  I can't help but wonder if that somebody is someone who Shaw used to coach under, who used to coach in the NFL, and who now coaches at his alma mater, after once disparaging its propensity to place athletes in "easy majors," when he coached for Shaw's alma mater.

Hmmmm.

And I sure would be curious to know what might be used against Stanford in recruiting:

- Don't play at 100k stadium?
- Can't enroll early?

Has anyone documented that these things have any impact whatsoever on the professional prospects (football or otherwise) of Stanford football players?

[OutsiderFan]

This is quite interesting.  It suggests someone has been bad mouthing Stanford to recruits.  I can't help but wonder if that somebody is someone who Shaw used to coach under, who used to coach in the NFL, and who now coaches at his alma mater, after once disparaging its propensity to place athletes in "easy majors," when he coached for Shaw's alma mater.

Hmmmm.

And I sure would be curious to know what might be used against Stanford in recruiting:

- Don't play at 100k stadium?
- Can't enroll early?

Has anyone documented that these things have any impact whatsoever on the professional prospects (football or otherwise) of Stanford football players?

[Robbie]

And I sure would be curious to know what might be used against Stanford in recruiting:

- Don't play at 100k stadium?
- Can't enroll early?

- We won't make you take AP classes in high school, or retake your SAT.
- You won't have to worry about the stress of admissions. I can tell you right now that there is a place for you.
- It's a long way from home. Your parents and friends won't be able to see you play.
- Look at the passion around here. You'll love it.
- You'll be the only person from your high school there. You won't know anyone.
- It's in California, and they think differently out there.

[Robbie]

And I sure would be curious to know what might be used against Stanford in recruiting:

- Don't play at 100k stadium?
- Can't enroll early?

- We won't make you take AP classes in high school, or retake your SAT.
- You won't have to worry about the stress of admissions. I can tell you right now that there is a place for you.
- It's a long way from home. Your parents and friends won't be able to see you play.
- Look at the passion around here. You'll love it.
- You'll be the only person from your high school there. You won't know anyone.
- It's in California, and they think differently out there.

[TrumpCard]

Jeffrey McCulloch and Jovan Swann both re-tweeted the letter.  Swann, in particular, is probably hearing some negative recruiting since Northwestern (Fitzgerald) is the main competition.  That pitch won't work unless mom and/or gf is in his ear as well.

[TrumpCard]

Jeffrey McCulloch and Jovan Swann both re-tweeted the letter.  Swann, in particular, is probably hearing some negative recruiting since Northwestern (Fitzgerald) is the main competition.  That pitch won't work unless mom and/or gf is in his ear as well.

[Mick]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=14133.msg149144#msg149144 date=1450717400]
And I sure would be curious to know what might be used against Stanford in recruiting:

- Don't play at 100k stadium?  50k and 100k don't sound all that different.
- Can't enroll early?  You'll be perfectly prepared.  Here's a reading list.  Here's a prep list, both academically and athletically.  We won't rush you.

- We won't make you take AP classes in high school, or retake your SAT.  Don't make the four year choice.  Make the 40 year choice.
- You won't have to worry about the stress of admissions. I can tell you right now that there is a place for you. Only a few are strong enough.  Are you man enough to join the Marines play for Stanford?  Psychologically, either argument works real good on 18 year olds.
- It's a long way from home. Your parents and friends won't be able to see you play.  The Pac 12 is the best league in the country and we play around the country.  Here's the URLs to get access.
- Look at the passion around here. You'll love it.
- You'll be the only person from your high school there. You won't know anyone.  You will have five new best friends in 24 hours and 100 new best friends by the end of the week.  Doesn't matter which school.
- It's in California, and they think differently out there.  To paraphrase Robert Duvall as The Great Santini, speaking to a bunch of southerners: 'Yeah.  We're winners.'" 
[/quote]

[Mick]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=14133.msg149144#msg149144 date=1450717400]
And I sure would be curious to know what might be used against Stanford in recruiting:

- Don't play at 100k stadium?  50k and 100k don't sound all that different.
- Can't enroll early?  You'll be perfectly prepared.  Here's a reading list.  Here's a prep list, both academically and athletically.  We won't rush you.

- We won't make you take AP classes in high school, or retake your SAT.  Don't make the four year choice.  Make the 40 year choice.
- You won't have to worry about the stress of admissions. I can tell you right now that there is a place for you. Only a few are strong enough.  Are you man enough to join the Marines play for Stanford?  Psychologically, either argument works real good on 18 year olds.
- It's a long way from home. Your parents and friends won't be able to see you play.  The Pac 12 is the best league in the country and we play around the country.  Here's the URLs to get access.
- Look at the passion around here. You'll love it.
- You'll be the only person from your high school there. You won't know anyone.  You will have five new best friends in 24 hours and 100 new best friends by the end of the week.  Doesn't matter which school.
- It's in California, and they think differently out there.  To paraphrase Robert Duvall as The Great Santini, speaking to a bunch of southerners: 'Yeah.  We're winners.'" 
[/quote]

[TrumpCard]

- It's in California, and they think differently out there.

There are other demographics besides geography in play.  Young people and African-Americans are much more likely to be liberal in their political thinking.  There are probably a significant number of Stanford recruits from the South or Midwest who would fit in better ideologically at Stanford than they would at Alabama or tOSU.

[TrumpCard]

- It's in California, and they think differently out there.

There are other demographics besides geography in play.  Young people and African-Americans are much more likely to be liberal in their political thinking.  There are probably a significant number of Stanford recruits from the South or Midwest who would fit in better ideologically at Stanford than they would at Alabama or tOSU.

[TrumpCard]

I'll add one negative recruiting pitch that may have worked recently:  "We can win a national championship here at Michigan.  You might be able to get into Stanford, but there's no way to win an NC there because there aren't enough athletes like you who have the academic qualifications."

Maybe admissions was the only reason for the de-commitment.  Maybe not.  We'll probably never know for sure, though choosing UW over UM would put a bit of a dent in that theory.

P.S. Maybe admissions was the only real obstacle, but when admissions didn't work out, the recruit informed Shaw of the pitches he'd been receiving.

[TrumpCard]

I'll add one negative recruiting pitch that may have worked recently:  "We can win a national championship here at Michigan.  You might be able to get into Stanford, but there's no way to win an NC there because there aren't enough athletes like you who have the academic qualifications."

Maybe admissions was the only reason for the de-commitment.  Maybe not.  We'll probably never know for sure, though choosing UW over UM would put a bit of a dent in that theory.

P.S. Maybe admissions was the only real obstacle, but when admissions didn't work out, the recruit informed Shaw of the pitches he'd been receiving.

[Mick]

I'll add one negative recruiting pitch that may have worked recently:  "We can win a national championship here at Michigan.  You might be able to get into Stanford, but there's no way to win an NC there because there aren't enough athletes like you who have the academic qualifications."

Maybe admissions was the only reason for the de-commitment.  Maybe not.  We'll probably never know for sure, though choosing UW over UM would put a bit of a dent in that theory.

P.S. Maybe admissions was the only real obstacle, but when admissions didn't work out, the recruit informed Shaw of the pitches he'd been receiving.

I don't really see how that holds water, particularly vis-a-vis the Michigan vs. Stanford argument, given the last five years.

[Mick]

I'll add one negative recruiting pitch that may have worked recently:  "We can win a national championship here at Michigan.  You might be able to get into Stanford, but there's no way to win an NC there because there aren't enough athletes like you who have the academic qualifications."

Maybe admissions was the only reason for the de-commitment.  Maybe not.  We'll probably never know for sure, though choosing UW over UM would put a bit of a dent in that theory.

P.S. Maybe admissions was the only real obstacle, but when admissions didn't work out, the recruit informed Shaw of the pitches he'd been receiving.

I don't really see how that holds water, particularly vis-a-vis the Michigan vs. Stanford argument, given the last five years.

[TrumpCard]

The argument requires faith that Harbaugh is more Schembechler than RichRod/Hoke.  Harbaugh would say that he turned Stanford and the 49ers into contenders, but they didn't have the institutional support required to contend on a regular basis.  He chose UM as his next gig because they are willing to do let him do what it takes to win.  That's the narrative at least.

[TrumpCard]

The argument requires faith that Harbaugh is more Schembechler than RichRod/Hoke.  Harbaugh would say that he turned Stanford and the 49ers into contenders, but they didn't have the institutional support required to contend on a regular basis.  He chose UM as his next gig because they are willing to do let him do what it takes to win.  That's the narrative at least.

[dabigv13]

What's the evidence this is coming from Harbaugh? Are we idly speculating here or is there something I'm missing?

[dabigv13]

What's the evidence this is coming from Harbaugh? Are we idly speculating here or is there something I'm missing?

[ColoradoTree]

The only evidence I'm aware of is that Long was committed to Stanford and now seems to favor Michigan, and at the same time Shaw puts out a letter extolling the virtues of the Stanford program.  So, no direct evidence, of course, but a little bit of circumstantial evidence.*

*Tangent on circumstantial evidence.  You often hear something dismissed as "oh, that's just circumstantial" as if it means nothing, and many people believe that you can't get a conviction or a civil jury verdict based on circumstantial evidence.  You absolutely can, however.  Still valid evidence, just not as helpful or powerful as direct evidence.  Thus endeth the lesson. 

[ColoradoTree]

The only evidence I'm aware of is that Long was committed to Stanford and now seems to favor Michigan, and at the same time Shaw puts out a letter extolling the virtues of the Stanford program.  So, no direct evidence, of course, but a little bit of circumstantial evidence.*

*Tangent on circumstantial evidence.  You often hear something dismissed as "oh, that's just circumstantial" as if it means nothing, and many people believe that you can't get a conviction or a civil jury verdict based on circumstantial evidence.  You absolutely can, however.  Still valid evidence, just not as helpful or powerful as direct evidence.  Thus endeth the lesson. 

[TrumpCard]

Purely circumstantial, but there is more circumstantial evidence than you acknowledged.  I'll also speculate that the content of Shaw's letter is meant to address the negative recruiting pitch.  If the pitch were about fan support or television schedule, then the letter would have addressed that.  This letter focuses on Stanford's recent history of winning.  I do see the graduation rate and U.S. News Ranking there, but I don't really think that anyone is saying that Stanford doesn't graduate its players or that Stanford is less than an elite academic institution.  So, circumstantially, it seems like Stanford's alleged lack of ability to win games is the negative pitch. 

Of course, UDFG could just as easily be the culprit for making the same hypothetical argument in recruiting McCulloch. 

NW's Fitzgerald is famous for negative recruiting, but I don't see what argument he could make to Swann that would have any real impact.  Swann's mom and gf are the only ones who potentially have Swann's ear. 

[TrumpCard]

Purely circumstantial, but there is more circumstantial evidence than you acknowledged.  I'll also speculate that the content of Shaw's letter is meant to address the negative recruiting pitch.  If the pitch were about fan support or television schedule, then the letter would have addressed that.  This letter focuses on Stanford's recent history of winning.  I do see the graduation rate and U.S. News Ranking there, but I don't really think that anyone is saying that Stanford doesn't graduate its players or that Stanford is less than an elite academic institution.  So, circumstantially, it seems like Stanford's alleged lack of ability to win games is the negative pitch. 

Of course, UDFG could just as easily be the culprit for making the same hypothetical argument in recruiting McCulloch. 

NW's Fitzgerald is famous for negative recruiting, but I don't see what argument he could make to Swann that would have any real impact.  Swann's mom and gf are the only ones who potentially have Swann's ear. 

[PrinceLightfoot]

I think this is more Pat Fitzgerald (and a battle over Jovan Swann) and Brian Kelly than Harbaugh although we know Harbs is most likely doing some negative recruiting.

I do not think this is related to Long's decommitment because he did not included us as a potential landing spot (which smells of academic issues), but who knows.

[PrinceLightfoot]

I think this is more Pat Fitzgerald (and a battle over Jovan Swann) and Brian Kelly than Harbaugh although we know Harbs is most likely doing some negative recruiting.

I do not think this is related to Long's decommitment because he did not included us as a potential landing spot (which smells of academic issues), but who knows.

[JohnR34231]

Having had personal experience in the way Pat Fitzgerald recruits, I would put very little past him.

[JohnR34231]

Having had personal experience in the way Pat Fitzgerald recruits, I would put very little past him.

[Hank 91]

I'm guessing that most coaches use negative recruiting to some degree, even if it's indirect. "Really, you want to go there? Don't you want to play in front of 100,000 screaming fans every week?"

Also, I don't think the negative recruiting is that much of a problem. What these coaches are doing, if they're doing it, is highlighting the differences between Stanford and everywhere else. Also, I don't think they're telling recruits anything they don't already know. Nerd Nation is more than just a hashtag. It feels like most of these players like the idea that they're sharing the locker room with other guys who are like them, guys who think about things other than football, guys who embrace challenges in all aspects of their lives, not just on the football field, the practice field, and the weight room. I don't have a problem with Jim Harbaugh or anyone else telling their recruits, "We are not like Stanford."

[Hank 91]

I'm guessing that most coaches use negative recruiting to some degree, even if it's indirect. "Really, you want to go there? Don't you want to play in front of 100,000 screaming fans every week?"

Also, I don't think the negative recruiting is that much of a problem. What these coaches are doing, if they're doing it, is highlighting the differences between Stanford and everywhere else. Also, I don't think they're telling recruits anything they don't already know. Nerd Nation is more than just a hashtag. It feels like most of these players like the idea that they're sharing the locker room with other guys who are like them, guys who think about things other than football, guys who embrace challenges in all aspects of their lives, not just on the football field, the practice field, and the weight room. I don't have a problem with Jim Harbaugh or anyone else telling their recruits, "We are not like Stanford."

[CrazedZooChimp]

Purely circumstantial, but there is more circumstantial evidence than you acknowledged.  I'll also speculate that the content of Shaw's letter is meant to address the negative recruiting pitch.  If the pitch were about fan support or television schedule, then the letter would have addressed that.  This letter focuses on Stanford's recent history of winning.  I do see the graduation rate and U.S. News Ranking there, but I don't really think that anyone is saying that Stanford doesn't graduate its players or that Stanford is less than an elite academic institution.  So, circumstantially, it seems like Stanford's alleged lack of ability to win games is the negative pitch. 

Of course, UDFG could just as easily be the culprit for making the same hypothetical argument in recruiting McCulloch. 

NW's Fitzgerald is famous for negative recruiting, but I don't see what argument he could make to Swann that would have any real impact.  Swann's mom and gf are the only ones who potentially have Swann's ear.

The obvious contenders for including the grad rates and US News rankings is something like Domers (or Northwestern) saying something about them being as high quality academically (or better) than Stanford.  And NW could say something about beating us this year, maybe that could prompt the winning stuff (or Domers saying something about when they got walloped by Bama in the championship a few years ago).

[CrazedZooChimp]

Purely circumstantial, but there is more circumstantial evidence than you acknowledged.  I'll also speculate that the content of Shaw's letter is meant to address the negative recruiting pitch.  If the pitch were about fan support or television schedule, then the letter would have addressed that.  This letter focuses on Stanford's recent history of winning.  I do see the graduation rate and U.S. News Ranking there, but I don't really think that anyone is saying that Stanford doesn't graduate its players or that Stanford is less than an elite academic institution.  So, circumstantially, it seems like Stanford's alleged lack of ability to win games is the negative pitch. 

Of course, UDFG could just as easily be the culprit for making the same hypothetical argument in recruiting McCulloch. 

NW's Fitzgerald is famous for negative recruiting, but I don't see what argument he could make to Swann that would have any real impact.  Swann's mom and gf are the only ones who potentially have Swann's ear.

The obvious contenders for including the grad rates and US News rankings is something like Domers (or Northwestern) saying something about them being as high quality academically (or better) than Stanford.  And NW could say something about beating us this year, maybe that could prompt the winning stuff (or Domers saying something about when they got walloped by Bama in the championship a few years ago).

[theashwineffect]

Having had personal experience in the way Pat Fitzgerald recruits, I would put very little past him.

Can you elaborate? Yours and Trump's comments have piqued my interest. Have we ever lost a direct recruit to NW that wasn't at least partially due to academics (Dickerson, Odenigbo, etc.)?

[theashwineffect]

Having had personal experience in the way Pat Fitzgerald recruits, I would put very little past him.

Can you elaborate? Yours and Trump's comments have piqued my interest. Have we ever lost a direct recruit to NW that wasn't at least partially due to academics (Dickerson, Odenigbo, etc.)?

[terry]

The obvious contenders for including the grad rates and US News rankings is something like Domers (or Northwestern) saying something about them being as high quality academically (or better) than Stanford.

A number of schools try to convince recruits that they're just as good as Stanford academically. Not just Northwestern and Notre.Dame, but also Duke, Vandy, U*S*C, UCLA, C.al, Penn State, Michigan, Texas, Washington, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, and others. Some of the state schools try to convince recruits that their "honors colleges" are equal to Stanford. I remember when Oklahoma used that approach with Chase Beeler. If we're trying to narrow down a list of suspects based on which schools claim they're academically comparable to Stanford, I don't think it's going to be a short list. The well-informed recruits know better, but I think many recruits just aren't all that well-informed.

[terry]

The obvious contenders for including the grad rates and US News rankings is something like Domers (or Northwestern) saying something about them being as high quality academically (or better) than Stanford.

A number of schools try to convince recruits that they're just as good as Stanford academically. Not just Northwestern and Notre.Dame, but also Duke, Vandy, U*S*C, UCLA, C.al, Penn State, Michigan, Texas, Washington, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, and others. Some of the state schools try to convince recruits that their "honors colleges" are equal to Stanford. I remember when Oklahoma used that approach with Chase Beeler. If we're trying to narrow down a list of suspects based on which schools claim they're academically comparable to Stanford, I don't think it's going to be a short list. The well-informed recruits know better, but I think many recruits just aren't all that well-informed.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Can you elaborate? Yours and Trump's comments has piqued my interest. Have we ever lost a direct recruit to NW that wasn't at least partially due to academics (Dickerson, Odenigbo, etc.)?

Dickerson wasn't entirely because of academics. He was offered as a sophomore, but his level of play just did not develop in his junior or senior years. My complete guess is that while the offer would be honored if he applied and was accepted, the staff lowered the level of communication or was point blank honest about his chances of seeing the field. His older brother was already at NW, so there was a level of warmth already associated with Mildcats. I do not know if he submitted an application.

Odenigbo was an admissions casualty (..even Kyle Bonagura tweeted that he wasn't admitted but then retracted that statement saying his source was incorrect...not sure what to believe there). He had a 3.2 GPA going into his senior year, so it was an uphill battle from the start.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Can you elaborate? Yours and Trump's comments has piqued my interest. Have we ever lost a direct recruit to NW that wasn't at least partially due to academics (Dickerson, Odenigbo, etc.)?

Dickerson wasn't entirely because of academics. He was offered as a sophomore, but his level of play just did not develop in his junior or senior years. My complete guess is that while the offer would be honored if he applied and was accepted, the staff lowered the level of communication or was point blank honest about his chances of seeing the field. His older brother was already at NW, so there was a level of warmth already associated with Mildcats. I do not know if he submitted an application.

Odenigbo was an admissions casualty (..even Kyle Bonagura tweeted that he wasn't admitted but then retracted that statement saying his source was incorrect...not sure what to believe there). He had a 3.2 GPA going into his senior year, so it was an uphill battle from the start.