[Cadet84]

You\'re right in that there is no benefit of doubt for Bowlby this time around.
But, there\'s also no valid comparison with the Johnson situation - the football team is loaded right now, admissions has worked well with recruiting and Stanford has been willing to show the $$$. I\'ll be stunned if Bowlby doesn\'t move swiftly.  He\'s proven he can evaluate football coaches and this time around Stanford is a coveted coaching assignment (who thought that was possible!).  

[Cadet84]

You\'re right in that there is no benefit of doubt for Bowlby this time around.
But, there\'s also no valid comparison with the Johnson situation - the football team is loaded right now, admissions has worked well with recruiting and Stanford has been willing to show the $$$. I\'ll be stunned if Bowlby doesn\'t move swiftly.  He\'s proven he can evaluate football coaches and this time around Stanford is a coveted coaching assignment (who thought that was possible!).  

[97fan]

The situations are very different. I won\'t at all be satisfied with three or more rebuilding seasons, because the football program is loaded with talent and has perhaps the best player in the nation returning at QB.  If the basketball team had a similar abundance of talent at the time Trent Johnson left, I would have expected more, right away, from Johnny Dawkins.

I agree with you that it will be important to try to keep some continuity on the coaching staff. This will be easier if Roman or Shaw is elevated to the head coaching job. But finding the right head coach is the top priority; if that means hiring someone from the outside, and losing a few more assistant coaches as a result, I think that is a price worth paying.

[97fan]

The situations are very different. I won\'t at all be satisfied with three or more rebuilding seasons, because the football program is loaded with talent and has perhaps the best player in the nation returning at QB.  If the basketball team had a similar abundance of talent at the time Trent Johnson left, I would have expected more, right away, from Johnny Dawkins.

I agree with you that it will be important to try to keep some continuity on the coaching staff. This will be easier if Roman or Shaw is elevated to the head coaching job. But finding the right head coach is the top priority; if that means hiring someone from the outside, and losing a few more assistant coaches as a result, I think that is a price worth paying.

[washingtonismoney]

It\'s worth noting that Bowlsby has a very good track record of hiring football coaches and a not-so-hot record of hiring basketball players. There\'s little reason to believe, as of now, that Bowlsby won\'t hire a good coach.

[washingtonismoney]

It\'s worth noting that Bowlsby has a very good track record of hiring football coaches and a not-so-hot record of hiring basketball players. There\'s little reason to believe, as of now, that Bowlsby won\'t hire a good coach.

[rwait08]

record of hiring basketball players.

Shhhhh!  The NCAA has spies everywhere!

[rwait08]

record of hiring basketball players.

Shhhhh!  The NCAA has spies everywhere!

[JeffInCorvallis]

There have been a TON of rumors flying around in the last week.  Eventually we may find out which were true and which were bunk.  If the one about Stanford matching or even beating the 49ers offer is true than that marks a major, major shift in Stanford\'s attitude toward football.  I don\'t expect us to offer than kind of money to Shaw or Roman, but we should look hard at who might be interested in being head coach.  Better to take a little bit of time to get the right hire.

Bowlsby is not dumb - he should have a short list by now.  I would also expect some coaches to have put out feelers to Bowlsby already in case JH jumped ship - it has been THE story in college football the last 5 days.

No excuses if Bowlsby screws this up but I don\'t expect him to.

[JeffInCorvallis]

There have been a TON of rumors flying around in the last week.  Eventually we may find out which were true and which were bunk.  If the one about Stanford matching or even beating the 49ers offer is true than that marks a major, major shift in Stanford\'s attitude toward football.  I don\'t expect us to offer than kind of money to Shaw or Roman, but we should look hard at who might be interested in being head coach.  Better to take a little bit of time to get the right hire.

Bowlsby is not dumb - he should have a short list by now.  I would also expect some coaches to have put out feelers to Bowlsby already in case JH jumped ship - it has been THE story in college football the last 5 days.

No excuses if Bowlsby screws this up but I don\'t expect him to.

[slide]

Dawkins was hired in late April and had no chance to move on anything other than Trent\'s class that was already signed, one of whom was granted a transfer.  Trent did not leave the cupboard stocked (Goods, Hill, Fields, some middlers, and 5 walkons).  

Bowlsby needs to hire quickly to land this class, including some guys who were on the fence before Harbaugh left.  and the cupboard is stocked including next year\'s Voldemort favorite.  

far different circumstances.

for Garvin:

the Johnson Grabbed by LSU:  46-35
Dawkins: 43-36

[slide]

Dawkins was hired in late April and had no chance to move on anything other than Trent\'s class that was already signed, one of whom was granted a transfer.  Trent did not leave the cupboard stocked (Goods, Hill, Fields, some middlers, and 5 walkons).  

Bowlsby needs to hire quickly to land this class, including some guys who were on the fence before Harbaugh left.  and the cupboard is stocked including next year\'s Voldemort favorite.  

far different circumstances.

for Garvin:

the Johnson Grabbed by LSU:  46-35
Dawkins: 43-36

[washingtonismoney]

By the by--in the "Trent Johnson" checkup category:

They\'re 8-7 this year with losses to Nicholls State, Coastal Carolina, North Texas, a drubbing by Virginia (who we beat by 21), and a loss to a Ben Braun-led Rice. Life sure is hard without the Lopez twins putting you on their back. Would anyone trade LSU\'s prospects for ours?

[washingtonismoney]

By the by--in the "Trent Johnson" checkup category:

They\'re 8-7 this year with losses to Nicholls State, Coastal Carolina, North Texas, a drubbing by Virginia (who we beat by 21), and a loss to a Ben Braun-led Rice. Life sure is hard without the Lopez twins putting you on their back. Would anyone trade LSU\'s prospects for ours?

[stanfan]

Bob Bowlsby has done a great job and is about to earn his money once again.   I appreciate the fact that he and Pres H made a real run at Harbs, but it was not to be because  Harbs sees himself as an NFL coach.  

[stanfan]

Bob Bowlsby has done a great job and is about to earn his money once again.   I appreciate the fact that he and Pres H made a real run at Harbs, but it was not to be because  Harbs sees himself as an NFL coach.  

[terry]

This is nothing like the Trent Johnson situation. Period.

[terry]

This is nothing like the Trent Johnson situation. Period.

[Redrum]

One BCS win and you\'re bouncing off the walls like an octogenarian who got a series of marmot liver shots at a pricey Swiss clinic.

Geeze. your sit-down drinkathon with Darth Vader reveal you were his son?

[Redrum]

One BCS win and you\'re bouncing off the walls like an octogenarian who got a series of marmot liver shots at a pricey Swiss clinic.

Geeze. your sit-down drinkathon with Darth Vader reveal you were his son?

[slide]

Garvin -- normally you make good logical arguments but I think your  mencrush on Wilner and Trent have addled your thinking.  have \'em both -- there are all yours.    

and how do you square your own argument:  "he (Dawkins) wasn\'t on Bowlsby\'s list when the search began. In fact, there\'s no evidence that Bowlsby had a list."  and lastly, what difference does its make?  its early April -- not prime recruiting season for basketball for the incoming fall class.  Bowlsby had time to make a good hire.  whether a good one or not is still TBD (more on this later)

my point on the original post is that Dawkins or any hire would have had little to no chance to impact the 08-09 FR class unless there was a recruit admitted in January and who had not signed a NLOI by mid April.  to my knowledge, no one fit both parameters.  our class was Miles Plumlee, Green and Mann.  Plumlee\'s departure was likely with Trent\'s departure, and may have happened even if Trent stayed given the Duke offers to younger brother Mason and then a late one to Miles (Duke admissions is a rubber stamp for Coach K).  personally, I think letting Plumlee go was a good call.  why keep someone who doesn\'t want to be at your school?

my second point, and may be I should have spelled it out more clearly so you could follow, was Trent left little talent for the new basketball coach.  8 scholarship players including 2 SRs and 5 walk-ons going into your 5th season?  not much there for anyone.

both points relate to Bowlsby\'s decision on a new football coach.  first, Harbaugh\'s departure is less than a month before we need to land and sign our 2011 class (NLOI day is early February).  in fact, there is more urgency as the weekend of January 14 is our big football recruit weekend.  imo, we need to have a new head coach on board by then or we may lose good chunks of the commitments we have.  we lost one yesterday to Tulsa.  again, there was no such immediate pressure when Johnson chose to go to his new "dream school" in Baton Rouge.

second, Harbaugh leaves the cupboard well-stocked and the program in a prominent position nationally (yeah, we are relevant nationally again).  Bowlsby can use these positions to make a good hire.  the situation is very different from the two previous hires.  I hope Bowlsby selects well, and he appears to have a shortlist this time.

last point, and going back to Dawkins, I am not sure if he was a great hire or not.  I think he was a good hire.  he has finally gotten Stanford (owing to a rough first year with OU with the Andy Brown class), he landed a really good second class (the Powell et al class), and he was willing to bring in a good veteran Xs and Os guy in Davey.  trajectory wise, he appears to have us going the right direction, albeit slowly.  we are 2-0 in conference and will likely finish mid Pac-10 after being picked to be a cellar dweller.  I am not confident Trent would have done any better; in fact, I think he would have done worse.  other than the predestiny Lopi, Trent was a lackluster recruiter as a head coach and was definitely not an Xs and Os guy.  look at the direction he has LSU going.  in the end I am fine with Bowlsby letting Trent walk out on the last year of his contract.

I hope this makes more sense Garvin.

[slide]

Garvin -- normally you make good logical arguments but I think your  mencrush on Wilner and Trent have addled your thinking.  have \'em both -- there are all yours.    

and how do you square your own argument:  "he (Dawkins) wasn\'t on Bowlsby\'s list when the search began. In fact, there\'s no evidence that Bowlsby had a list."  and lastly, what difference does its make?  its early April -- not prime recruiting season for basketball for the incoming fall class.  Bowlsby had time to make a good hire.  whether a good one or not is still TBD (more on this later)

my point on the original post is that Dawkins or any hire would have had little to no chance to impact the 08-09 FR class unless there was a recruit admitted in January and who had not signed a NLOI by mid April.  to my knowledge, no one fit both parameters.  our class was Miles Plumlee, Green and Mann.  Plumlee\'s departure was likely with Trent\'s departure, and may have happened even if Trent stayed given the Duke offers to younger brother Mason and then a late one to Miles (Duke admissions is a rubber stamp for Coach K).  personally, I think letting Plumlee go was a good call.  why keep someone who doesn\'t want to be at your school?

my second point, and may be I should have spelled it out more clearly so you could follow, was Trent left little talent for the new basketball coach.  8 scholarship players including 2 SRs and 5 walk-ons going into your 5th season?  not much there for anyone.

both points relate to Bowlsby\'s decision on a new football coach.  first, Harbaugh\'s departure is less than a month before we need to land and sign our 2011 class (NLOI day is early February).  in fact, there is more urgency as the weekend of January 14 is our big football recruit weekend.  imo, we need to have a new head coach on board by then or we may lose good chunks of the commitments we have.  we lost one yesterday to Tulsa.  again, there was no such immediate pressure when Johnson chose to go to his new "dream school" in Baton Rouge.

second, Harbaugh leaves the cupboard well-stocked and the program in a prominent position nationally (yeah, we are relevant nationally again).  Bowlsby can use these positions to make a good hire.  the situation is very different from the two previous hires.  I hope Bowlsby selects well, and he appears to have a shortlist this time.

last point, and going back to Dawkins, I am not sure if he was a great hire or not.  I think he was a good hire.  he has finally gotten Stanford (owing to a rough first year with OU with the Andy Brown class), he landed a really good second class (the Powell et al class), and he was willing to bring in a good veteran Xs and Os guy in Davey.  trajectory wise, he appears to have us going the right direction, albeit slowly.  we are 2-0 in conference and will likely finish mid Pac-10 after being picked to be a cellar dweller.  I am not confident Trent would have done any better; in fact, I think he would have done worse.  other than the predestiny Lopi, Trent was a lackluster recruiter as a head coach and was definitely not an Xs and Os guy.  look at the direction he has LSU going.  in the end I am fine with Bowlsby letting Trent walk out on the last year of his contract.

I hope this makes more sense Garvin.

[slide]

so Garvin, when you\'ve got nothing, he is your crutch?

[slide]

so Garvin, when you\'ve got nothing, he is your crutch?

[Cadet84]

Sorry Garvin, you\'ve lost this one.  

[Cadet84]

Sorry Garvin, you\'ve lost this one.  

[GoodGrief]

Even if Dawkins should turn out to be the greatest basketball coach in the known universe, he wasn\'t on Bowlsby\'s list when the search began. In fact, there\'s no evidence that Bowlsby had a list. He wandered the country for a month, chatting with people who weren\'t interested or would have been absolutely insane choices. (Larry Brown? At Stanford?)

I think Bowlsby was willing to let Trent leave precisely because he did have what he considered to be superior candidates in mind to replace him, and at the top of that list was Larry Brown. Larry Brown confirmed that he had pretty much accepted the Stanford coaching position and then had a last second change of heart.

Why would Larry Brown have been such an insane choice for Stanford?

[GoodGrief]

Even if Dawkins should turn out to be the greatest basketball coach in the known universe, he wasn\'t on Bowlsby\'s list when the search began. In fact, there\'s no evidence that Bowlsby had a list. He wandered the country for a month, chatting with people who weren\'t interested or would have been absolutely insane choices. (Larry Brown? At Stanford?)

I think Bowlsby was willing to let Trent leave precisely because he did have what he considered to be superior candidates in mind to replace him, and at the top of that list was Larry Brown. Larry Brown confirmed that he had pretty much accepted the Stanford coaching position and then had a last second change of heart.

Why would Larry Brown have been such an insane choice for Stanford?

[slide]

Bowlsby\'s contract, iirc, is up for renewal by August.  if true, it will be interesting what the Johns (Hennessey, Etchemendy, Arrillaga) think of his work as AD.

[slide]

Bowlsby\'s contract, iirc, is up for renewal by August.  if true, it will be interesting what the Johns (Hennessey, Etchemendy, Arrillaga) think of his work as AD.

[97fan]

As I\'ve said previously in this thread, the point is not whether Johnny Dawkins is a good coach.

I guess this is where you and I differ.

Could the coaching search have been handled better? Probably, but great coaches weren\'t exactly beating down BB\'s door at that time. If I had the choice between having a seamless transition, or making sure that the AD hires the best person available, I would choose the latter every time.

[97fan]

As I\'ve said previously in this thread, the point is not whether Johnny Dawkins is a good coach.

I guess this is where you and I differ.

Could the coaching search have been handled better? Probably, but great coaches weren\'t exactly beating down BB\'s door at that time. If I had the choice between having a seamless transition, or making sure that the AD hires the best person available, I would choose the latter every time.