[washingtonismoney]

Greg Roman is a top level NFL offensive coordinator? Niners fans would be...very surprised by that assessment.

[washingtonismoney]

Greg Roman is a top level NFL offensive coordinator? Niners fans would be...very surprised by that assessment.

[Rally]

Greg Roman is a top level NFL offensive coordinator? Niners fans would be...very surprised by that assessment.

How about Pep then?  I'll bet he'd jump at the chance to get away from whatshisname and work with our stable of HTCs.

[Rally]

Greg Roman is a top level NFL offensive coordinator? Niners fans would be...very surprised by that assessment.

How about Pep then?  I'll bet he'd jump at the chance to get away from whatshisname and work with our stable of HTCs.

[yvonne]

tongue-in-cheek?

[yvonne]

tongue-in-cheek?

[Rally]

tongue-in-cheek?

MAYBE.  Nah.

[Rally]

tongue-in-cheek?

MAYBE.  Nah.

[ChicagoCard]

Two somewhat random questions that I'm curious about, but maybe nobody else... 1) Did Shaw after Pep Hamilton left have a choice between elevating Bloomgren or Sanford to OC? If so, were any Cardboarders surprised at the time? 2) Is Utah instructive all all on the question of the often lackluster offense? They've had a lot of inconsistency on offense, although in their case have had a rotating door of OCs. They also have lacked consistency at QB, and not had any who have been able to carry the team (since Brian Johnson).

[ChicagoCard]

Two somewhat random questions that I'm curious about, but maybe nobody else... 1) Did Shaw after Pep Hamilton left have a choice between elevating Bloomgren or Sanford to OC? If so, were any Cardboarders surprised at the time? 2) Is Utah instructive all all on the question of the often lackluster offense? They've had a lot of inconsistency on offense, although in their case have had a rotating door of OCs. They also have lacked consistency at QB, and not had any who have been able to carry the team (since Brian Johnson).

[yvonne]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127225#msg127225 date=1441652056]
tongue-in-cheek?

MAYBE.  Nah.
[/quote]

Well, since I didn't know what "htc" stood for, I thought whatsisname might refer to the Colts' coach, whom I know nothing about.

[yvonne]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127225#msg127225 date=1441652056]
tongue-in-cheek?

MAYBE.  Nah.
[/quote]

Well, since I didn't know what "htc" stood for, I thought whatsisname might refer to the Colts' coach, whom I know nothing about.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12672.msg127226#msg127226 date=1441653515]
[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127225#msg127225 date=1441652056]
tongue-in-cheek?

MAYBE.  Nah.
[/quote]

Well, since I didn't know what "htc" stood for, I thought whatsisname might refer to the Colts' coach, whom I know nothing about.
[/quote]

Sorry.  HTC = Voldemort Trophy Candidate.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12672.msg127226#msg127226 date=1441653515]
[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127225#msg127225 date=1441652056]
tongue-in-cheek?

MAYBE.  Nah.
[/quote]

Well, since I didn't know what "htc" stood for, I thought whatsisname might refer to the Colts' coach, whom I know nothing about.
[/quote]

Sorry.  HTC = Voldemort Trophy Candidate.

[yvonne]

thanks.  :)

[yvonne]

thanks.  :)

[thunder_chik]

My take on the problem:
1.  Coaching seems to be rather clueless on how to develop/maximize the talent we have on the team.  Or how to modify the playbook to fit the talent available, not vice versa.
2.  Is it possible that the players we have recruited, based on our past few years' success/visibility, are not as hungry/motivated/passionate as the players recruited during the Harbaugh tenure?  Appears so to me.  We need that "chip on our shoulder" attitude.
3.  Where are the leaders who can stir this team to action?  Will a Shayne Skov or John Flacco emerge sooner rather than later?
4.  We are dangerously close to having a "deja vu" season where the defense and offense are performing like two different teams, and blaming each other for failure.  Someone I saw or heard interviewed or quoted (may have been Blake Martinez) said the D and O were at odds with each other until Flacco stood up after the Utah loss and went on a rant that jolted everyone into action to finish the year strong.
5.  As someone else mentioned, no one looks like they are having any fun, including the fans.  Someone needs to convince Shaw that football should be good entertainment, it keeps alumni involved with/proud of the school, it brings in $$$, and most of us enjoy it when Stanford is rated in the top 25.

[thunder_chik]

My take on the problem:
1.  Coaching seems to be rather clueless on how to develop/maximize the talent we have on the team.  Or how to modify the playbook to fit the talent available, not vice versa.
2.  Is it possible that the players we have recruited, based on our past few years' success/visibility, are not as hungry/motivated/passionate as the players recruited during the Harbaugh tenure?  Appears so to me.  We need that "chip on our shoulder" attitude.
3.  Where are the leaders who can stir this team to action?  Will a Shayne Skov or John Flacco emerge sooner rather than later?
4.  We are dangerously close to having a "deja vu" season where the defense and offense are performing like two different teams, and blaming each other for failure.  Someone I saw or heard interviewed or quoted (may have been Blake Martinez) said the D and O were at odds with each other until Flacco stood up after the Utah loss and went on a rant that jolted everyone into action to finish the year strong.
5.  As someone else mentioned, no one looks like they are having any fun, including the fans.  Someone needs to convince Shaw that football should be good entertainment, it keeps alumni involved with/proud of the school, it brings in $$$, and most of us enjoy it when Stanford is rated in the top 25.

[winflop]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=12672.msg127219#msg127219 date=1441646942]
an NFL level OC like Greg Roman. 

I'm not so sure many 49er fans would agree with you on that.
[/quote]

Well techincally he is.  Didn't say he was a GOOD one  :P ;D

[winflop]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=12672.msg127219#msg127219 date=1441646942]
an NFL level OC like Greg Roman. 

I'm not so sure many 49er fans would agree with you on that.
[/quote]

Well techincally he is.  Didn't say he was a GOOD one  :P ;D

[Rally]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127220#msg127220 date=1441647410]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=12672.msg127219#msg127219 date=1441646942]
an NFL level OC like Greg Roman. 

I'm not so sure many 49er fans would agree with you on that.
[/quote]

Well techincally he is.  Didn't say he was a GOOD one  :P ;D
[/quote]

One name:  Pep.

[Rally]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127220#msg127220 date=1441647410]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=12672.msg127219#msg127219 date=1441646942]
an NFL level OC like Greg Roman. 

I'm not so sure many 49er fans would agree with you on that.
[/quote]

Well techincally he is.  Didn't say he was a GOOD one  :P ;D
[/quote]

One name:  Pep.

[CrazedZooChimp]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=12672.msg127250#msg127250 date=1441666768]
[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127220#msg127220 date=1441647410]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=12672.msg127219#msg127219 date=1441646942]
an NFL level OC like Greg Roman. 

I'm not so sure many 49er fans would agree with you on that.
[/quote]

Well techincally he is.  Didn't say he was a GOOD one  :P ;D
[/quote]

One name:  Pep.
[/quote]

You're saying Pep is a good OC?  I'll believe it when he gets to OC without Andrew Luck.  I suppose he did in 2012, our worst offensive season post Andrew Luck (based on ESPN's FPI and yards per play, and probably other metrics I didn't bother to look up).

[CrazedZooChimp]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=12672.msg127250#msg127250 date=1441666768]
[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=12672.msg127220#msg127220 date=1441647410]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=12672.msg127219#msg127219 date=1441646942]
an NFL level OC like Greg Roman. 

I'm not so sure many 49er fans would agree with you on that.
[/quote]

Well techincally he is.  Didn't say he was a GOOD one  :P ;D
[/quote]

One name:  Pep.
[/quote]

You're saying Pep is a good OC?  I'll believe it when he gets to OC without Andrew Luck.  I suppose he did in 2012, our worst offensive season post Andrew Luck (based on ESPN's FPI and yards per play, and probably other metrics I didn't bother to look up).

[Mick]

Greg Roman is a top level NFL offensive coordinator? Niners fans would be...very surprised by that assessment.

Scoff all you like.  He's the OC for the Buffalo Bills, and scored 88 points in the preseason, which is 29 points more than the 49ers scored.

In 2011, Roman was the OC for the 13-3 49ers, who got to the NFC championship game.  11th highest points in the NFL.
In 2012, Roman was OC for the 11-4-1 49ers, who got to the Super Bowl.  11th highest points in the NFL.
In 2013, Roman was the OC for the 12-4 49ers, who got to the NFC championship game.  11th highest points in the NFL.

He finished in the top 1/3 of the NFL three years in a row.  The prior three years, the 49ers were 22nd, 18th and 24th.  He's the coach for the Buffalo Bills, which scored 88 points in the preseason, second most among the 16 teams in the AFC. 

He's doing something right, and for sure he's doing something right that Shawgren isn't doing. 

[Mick]

Greg Roman is a top level NFL offensive coordinator? Niners fans would be...very surprised by that assessment.

Scoff all you like.  He's the OC for the Buffalo Bills, and scored 88 points in the preseason, which is 29 points more than the 49ers scored.

In 2011, Roman was the OC for the 13-3 49ers, who got to the NFC championship game.  11th highest points in the NFL.
In 2012, Roman was OC for the 11-4-1 49ers, who got to the Super Bowl.  11th highest points in the NFL.
In 2013, Roman was the OC for the 12-4 49ers, who got to the NFC championship game.  11th highest points in the NFL.

He finished in the top 1/3 of the NFL three years in a row.  The prior three years, the 49ers were 22nd, 18th and 24th.  He's the coach for the Buffalo Bills, which scored 88 points in the preseason, second most among the 16 teams in the AFC. 

He's doing something right, and for sure he's doing something right that Shawgren isn't doing. 

[BostonCard]

I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

[BostonCard]

I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

[Rally]

I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

I thought we were discussing a fantasy replacement for Bloomgren.  Now it's gotta be the best OC of all time?  Gees.

[Rally]

I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

I thought we were discussing a fantasy replacement for Bloomgren.  Now it's gotta be the best OC of all time?  Gees.

[Mick]

I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

Yes, I picked points because that's how the winner of games is determined.

Fine, let's use a comparable yardstick.  In 2009 and 2010, Roman was Stanford's OC and running game coordinator.  In 2009, Gerhart was first in the nation in scoring with 27 TDs.  Luck was first in the conference  in QBR.  Stanford was second in scoring in the conference both years.  In 2009, Stanford scored 461 points in 13 games, an average of more than 35 ppg.  In 2010, Stanford scored 524 points in 13 games, more than 40 ppg.  Two days ago, Stanford scored six (6) points against unranked Northwestern.  I'm going to take a wild guess and say, mmmm, perhaps, just maybe we'd be better off with Roman than Shawgren.

[Mick]

I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

Yes, I picked points because that's how the winner of games is determined.

Fine, let's use a comparable yardstick.  In 2009 and 2010, Roman was Stanford's OC and running game coordinator.  In 2009, Gerhart was first in the nation in scoring with 27 TDs.  Luck was first in the conference  in QBR.  Stanford was second in scoring in the conference both years.  In 2009, Stanford scored 461 points in 13 games, an average of more than 35 ppg.  In 2010, Stanford scored 524 points in 13 games, more than 40 ppg.  Two days ago, Stanford scored six (6) points against unranked Northwestern.  I'm going to take a wild guess and say, mmmm, perhaps, just maybe we'd be better off with Roman than Shawgren.

[BostonCard]

I noted that I am a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator for us.  I also said that I wasn't complaining about your choice of stats (though I did note you left out 2014).  A gambling defense that gave up yards but forced turnovers might be better than an analysis solely on yards given up might imply.  Conversely, a "bend but don't break" defense that consistently left the offense in poor field position but didn't give up a ton of points might be worse than an analysis based solely on points given up. By also listing the ranking in total yards given up, I was trying to paint a more complete picture of Roman's tenure as offensive coordinator at SF, which was more mixed than you seemed to be implying.

BC

[BostonCard]

I noted that I am a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator for us.  I also said that I wasn't complaining about your choice of stats (though I did note you left out 2014).  A gambling defense that gave up yards but forced turnovers might be better than an analysis solely on yards given up might imply.  Conversely, a "bend but don't break" defense that consistently left the offense in poor field position but didn't give up a ton of points might be worse than an analysis based solely on points given up. By also listing the ranking in total yards given up, I was trying to paint a more complete picture of Roman's tenure as offensive coordinator at SF, which was more mixed than you seemed to be implying.

BC

[wbond]

I thought Shaw's background is the offense?  He's a good coach, but not at coaching offense?  I'm so confused.

[wbond]

I thought Shaw's background is the offense?  He's a good coach, but not at coaching offense?  I'm so confused.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

Many here will scoff at the notion Shaw is Tedford in the making, but as someone who has observed both Ca.l and Stanford probably closer than anyone here, my perspective is probably different than most here too. 

Your perspective is different, and it is also ridiculous. Shaw went to three BCS bowl games in his first three seasons, including back-to-back Rose Bowls, the first Stanford coach to accomplish that in more than 40 years. In his fourth season, Shaw "declined" to just a plain old bowl game. There's been no pressure on him from the AD because he hasn't deserved or needed any. Harbaugh may have regarded losing as unacceptable, but he nonetheless lost: not a single conference championship during his tenure, even with Andrew Luck as his quarterback.

I am as unhappy as anybody with Saturday's game. But comparing a single loss to the total dysfunction of Jeff Tedford's teams is absurd. If Stanford is 3-9 at the end of the season, then I'll listen to you.

Shaw achieved that success with teams Harbaugh built.  After Harbaugh left, the question was whether Shaw could continue his predecessor's success.  He did, for a while - until last year.  Then the question became whether Shaw could achieve - with his own players - the same success he had achieved earlier.

Fact of the matter is nobody has any idea whether Shaw can be successful with a program he built himself.  This season will go a long way toward answering that question.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

Many here will scoff at the notion Shaw is Tedford in the making, but as someone who has observed both Ca.l and Stanford probably closer than anyone here, my perspective is probably different than most here too. 

Your perspective is different, and it is also ridiculous. Shaw went to three BCS bowl games in his first three seasons, including back-to-back Rose Bowls, the first Stanford coach to accomplish that in more than 40 years. In his fourth season, Shaw "declined" to just a plain old bowl game. There's been no pressure on him from the AD because he hasn't deserved or needed any. Harbaugh may have regarded losing as unacceptable, but he nonetheless lost: not a single conference championship during his tenure, even with Andrew Luck as his quarterback.

I am as unhappy as anybody with Saturday's game. But comparing a single loss to the total dysfunction of Jeff Tedford's teams is absurd. If Stanford is 3-9 at the end of the season, then I'll listen to you.

Shaw achieved that success with teams Harbaugh built.  After Harbaugh left, the question was whether Shaw could continue his predecessor's success.  He did, for a while - until last year.  Then the question became whether Shaw could achieve - with his own players - the same success he had achieved earlier.

Fact of the matter is nobody has any idea whether Shaw can be successful with a program he built himself.  This season will go a long way toward answering that question.

[CornFed]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12672.msg127275#msg127275 date=1441683951]
I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

I thought we were discussing a fantasy replacement for Bloomgren.  Now it's gotta be the best OC of all time?  Gees.
[/quote]

Well, I don't know.  If I'm fantasizing about sex I don't start with a slightly better-looking than average partner.

[CornFed]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12672.msg127275#msg127275 date=1441683951]
I notice you left out 2014, when the 49ers were 25th in the NFL in ppg.  I also note you chose to highlight ppg rather than total offense; in yards per game the niners ranked 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th.  I'm not complaining about your choice of stats to highlight, but the full picture is a bit more mixed.  WE will see what the Bills do going forward; I'm not sure that the pre-season is enough to make any sort of difinitive judgment when you are basically playing backups and trying to find out who will make your roster.  I'm a Roman fan based on what he did as run game coordinator here but the jury on him as an NFL OC is still out.

BC

I thought we were discussing a fantasy replacement for Bloomgren.  Now it's gotta be the best OC of all time?  Gees.
[/quote]

Well, I don't know.  If I'm fantasizing about sex I don't start with a slightly better-looking than average partner.