[Stymie]

Mr. Hulk01

Don't slag the Dukie Maguire twin sisters from Ireland.  They are world class players and had the grades in high school to get into Stanford, even if they had never played golf.

I suspect that the other aliens on their team are as academically qualified as our ladies.

Mr. Stymie

[Stymie]

Mr. Hulk01

Don't slag the Dukie Maguire twin sisters from Ireland.  They are world class players and had the grades in high school to get into Stanford, even if they had never played golf.

I suspect that the other aliens on their team are as academically qualified as our ladies.

Mr. Stymie

[SUBuddha]

Karen Chung (#3) vs. Quirine Eijkenbooom (#5) Up 1 through 8

Amy Lee (#5) vs. Mariah Stackhouse (#1) down 1 through 6

Annie Park (#2 player on U$€ and 2013 NCAA champ) vs. Shannon Aubert (#3) AS through 6

Gabriella Then (#1) vs. Lauren Kim (#2) up 2 through 6

Kyung Kim (#4) vs. Casey Danielson (#4) up 3 through 5

[SUBuddha]

Karen Chung (#3) vs. Quirine Eijkenbooom (#5) Up 1 through 8

Amy Lee (#5) vs. Mariah Stackhouse (#1) down 1 through 6

Annie Park (#2 player on U$€ and 2013 NCAA champ) vs. Shannon Aubert (#3) AS through 6

Gabriella Then (#1) vs. Lauren Kim (#2) up 2 through 6

Kyung Kim (#4) vs. Casey Danielson (#4) up 3 through 5

[oldalum]

Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

[oldalum]

Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

[fullmetal]

Golf, tennis, rowing, water polo ($C)...these are all sports where recruiting foreign elite talent has become a pattern, even a crux, on which more and more successful programs depend.  It may speak to the ability of American sports federations at developing competitive junior elite talent in these sports, and indirectly, the popularity and relevance of these sports to America.  For golf and tennis, it's more that the best of American junior talent won't need college to make it in the professional arena.

[fullmetal]

Golf, tennis, rowing, water polo ($C)...these are all sports where recruiting foreign elite talent has become a pattern, even a crux, on which more and more successful programs depend.  It may speak to the ability of American sports federations at developing competitive junior elite talent in these sports, and indirectly, the popularity and relevance of these sports to America.  For golf and tennis, it's more that the best of American junior talent won't need college to make it in the professional arena.

[Farm93]

Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Not only are a lot of the women from OUS, but a few of the players on the top teams arrived on campus in January.  I was not paying too much attention to the commentary yesterday, but one of the top teams features a few players that arrived on campus in January.  I remember thinking it was USC as I immediately thought about how convenient it was for yet more students with questionable qualifications to slide into campus outside of the US News fall entrant comparison, but it could have been another top team wearing red.

[Farm93]

Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Not only are a lot of the women from OUS, but a few of the players on the top teams arrived on campus in January.  I was not paying too much attention to the commentary yesterday, but one of the top teams features a few players that arrived on campus in January.  I remember thinking it was USC as I immediately thought about how convenient it was for yet more students with questionable qualifications to slide into campus outside of the US News fall entrant comparison, but it could have been another top team wearing red.

[Rally]

Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!  Well, except that Australian woman ball player.  Or can we consider Australia America, just like Canada?

[Rally]

Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!  Well, except that Australian woman ball player.  Or can we consider Australia America, just like Canada?

[fullmetal]

For rowing anyway, there's a mostly rhetorical debate about whether American Olympic rowing talent is served by the infusion of foreign elite talent in the college ranks.  This is a particularly salient issue since collegiate rowing is pretty much the major development pool from which US pre-elite talent is drawn.  On one hand, you elevate the level of American collegiate rowing and force everyone to get better...on the other hand, you're taking away an NCAA scholarship (or a spot on the team, at least) from someone who could have developed.

I say it's a rhetorical debate because the market has spoken--we're recruiting a lot of foreign elite talent for collegiate rowing, and there's no stopping that train anymore.

[fullmetal]

For rowing anyway, there's a mostly rhetorical debate about whether American Olympic rowing talent is served by the infusion of foreign elite talent in the college ranks.  This is a particularly salient issue since collegiate rowing is pretty much the major development pool from which US pre-elite talent is drawn.  On one hand, you elevate the level of American collegiate rowing and force everyone to get better...on the other hand, you're taking away an NCAA scholarship (or a spot on the team, at least) from someone who could have developed.

I say it's a rhetorical debate because the market has spoken--we're recruiting a lot of foreign elite talent for collegiate rowing, and there's no stopping that train anymore.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=12165.msg119063#msg119063 date=1432671197]
Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!
[/quote]

I think there is something to be said for student athletes to be generally representative of the students at your institution.  I think a blanket prohibition against foreigners would be bad, but just as brobdingnagian discrepencies between the academic qualifications and graduation rates of student athletes and students writ large at certain schools might raise an eyebrow, likewise, a big disparity in the foreign origin of athletes versus all students might make you wonder if they are really student-athletes or hired guns.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=12165.msg119063#msg119063 date=1432671197]
Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!
[/quote]

I think there is something to be said for student athletes to be generally representative of the students at your institution.  I think a blanket prohibition against foreigners would be bad, but just as brobdingnagian discrepencies between the academic qualifications and graduation rates of student athletes and students writ large at certain schools might raise an eyebrow, likewise, a big disparity in the foreign origin of athletes versus all students might make you wonder if they are really student-athletes or hired guns.

BC

[CrazedZooChimp]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12165.msg119068#msg119068 date=1432672433]
[quote author=oldalum link=topic=12165.msg119063#msg119063 date=1432671197]
Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!
[/quote]

I think there is something to be said for student athletes to be generally representative of the students at your institution.  I think a blanket prohibition against foreigners would be bad, but just as of exceedingly large proportions discrepencies between the academic qualifications and graduation rates of student athletes and students writ large at certain schools might raise an eyebrow, likewise, a big disparity in the foreign origin of athletes versus all students might make you wonder if they are really student-athletes or hired guns.

BC
[/quote]


As long as the attitude doesn't apply to PhD students or professorships too, because then we might have to lose a few departments that probably bring in a lot more money to Stanford than women's golf does...

[CrazedZooChimp]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12165.msg119068#msg119068 date=1432672433]
[quote author=oldalum link=topic=12165.msg119063#msg119063 date=1432671197]
Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!
[/quote]

I think there is something to be said for student athletes to be generally representative of the students at your institution.  I think a blanket prohibition against foreigners would be bad, but just as of exceedingly large proportions discrepencies between the academic qualifications and graduation rates of student athletes and students writ large at certain schools might raise an eyebrow, likewise, a big disparity in the foreign origin of athletes versus all students might make you wonder if they are really student-athletes or hired guns.

BC
[/quote]


As long as the attitude doesn't apply to PhD students or professorships too, because then we might have to lose a few departments that probably bring in a lot more money to Stanford than women's golf does...

[terry]

I have a problem with public universities stocking their teams with foreign athletes. It seems to me that the primary mission of a state-supported university is to educate the people of the state. It's not really clear to me that educating foreign athletes fits in to that mission. Private universities, it seems to me, have more flexibility about how they want to define their mission.

[terry]

I have a problem with public universities stocking their teams with foreign athletes. It seems to me that the primary mission of a state-supported university is to educate the people of the state. It's not really clear to me that educating foreign athletes fits in to that mission. Private universities, it seems to me, have more flexibility about how they want to define their mission.

[Farm93]

The quest to win is clearly priority #1 for most of coaches and ADs.

I get concerned about the notion that the players need to reflect the student body, as I am sure that argument was used in Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi and other places ~50 years ago.

It would be nice for the public schools to educate the children of their state and/or help the USA field stronger Olympic teams, but as long as it is OK by the rules I am sure the quest for wins will dominate the stated missions at these schools.  Though I wish there was a way to hold the scholarship to a specific player for a minimum of 2 years.  If you can only allocate 6 scholarships in women's golf a coach might think long and hard about a one semester athlete if they then lose the ability to allocate that scholarship for another 18 months.

[Farm93]

The quest to win is clearly priority #1 for most of coaches and ADs.

I get concerned about the notion that the players need to reflect the student body, as I am sure that argument was used in Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi and other places ~50 years ago.

It would be nice for the public schools to educate the children of their state and/or help the USA field stronger Olympic teams, but as long as it is OK by the rules I am sure the quest for wins will dominate the stated missions at these schools.  Though I wish there was a way to hold the scholarship to a specific player for a minimum of 2 years.  If you can only allocate 6 scholarships in women's golf a coach might think long and hard about a one semester athlete if they then lose the ability to allocate that scholarship for another 18 months.

[BobK]

Getting back to golf we are really in it except for Stackhouse down 4 with 6/7 to go.

[BobK]

Getting back to golf we are really in it except for Stackhouse down 4 with 6/7 to go.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12165.msg119070#msg119070 date=1432673039]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12165.msg119068#msg119068 date=1432672433]
[quote author=oldalum link=topic=12165.msg119063#msg119063 date=1432671197]
Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!
[/quote]

I think there is something to be said for student athletes to be generally representative of the students at your institution.  I think a blanket prohibition against foreigners would be bad, but just as of exceedingly large proportions discrepencies between the academic qualifications and graduation rates of student athletes and students writ large at certain schools might raise an eyebrow, likewise, a big disparity in the foreign origin of athletes versus all students might make you wonder if they are really student-athletes or hired guns.

BC
[/quote]


As long as the attitude doesn't apply to PhD students or professorships too, because then we might have to lose a few departments that probably bring in a lot more money to Stanford than women's golf does...
[/quote]

The first part is tautological; since PhD students are, well, students, it follows that their makeup reflects that of students. We tend to focus on undergraduates at Stanford, but truth is that educating graduate students is an important part of Stanford's mission. Yes, there are more foreign born PhD students than there are undergraduates.  According to Stanford, about 1/3 of graduate students are from California, 1/3 are from the US, outside of California, and 1/3 are foreign.

http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/graduate-profile

Obviously that depends a lot on department, though, and I would suspect a greater proportion of the PhD students are international than the Master's students.

BC

[BostonCard]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12165.msg119070#msg119070 date=1432673039]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12165.msg119068#msg119068 date=1432672433]
[quote author=oldalum link=topic=12165.msg119063#msg119063 date=1432671197]
Academic qualifications aside, it seems somehow wrong to have zero players from the U.S. competing on a U.S. college team. The issue afflicts other college sports such as tennis. As I recall when Stanford W tennis won the championship 2 years ago, our championship opponent Texas A&M had zero players from the U.S. on its team.

Seems pretty parochial to me, if not a bit of sour grapes.  Why wouldn't your opinion apply to states as well?  Only California kids at California schools, for example.  No damn foreigners!
[/quote]

I think there is something to be said for student athletes to be generally representative of the students at your institution.  I think a blanket prohibition against foreigners would be bad, but just as of exceedingly large proportions discrepencies between the academic qualifications and graduation rates of student athletes and students writ large at certain schools might raise an eyebrow, likewise, a big disparity in the foreign origin of athletes versus all students might make you wonder if they are really student-athletes or hired guns.

BC
[/quote]


As long as the attitude doesn't apply to PhD students or professorships too, because then we might have to lose a few departments that probably bring in a lot more money to Stanford than women's golf does...
[/quote]

The first part is tautological; since PhD students are, well, students, it follows that their makeup reflects that of students. We tend to focus on undergraduates at Stanford, but truth is that educating graduate students is an important part of Stanford's mission. Yes, there are more foreign born PhD students than there are undergraduates.  According to Stanford, about 1/3 of graduate students are from California, 1/3 are from the US, outside of California, and 1/3 are foreign.

http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/graduate-profile

Obviously that depends a lot on department, though, and I would suspect a greater proportion of the PhD students are international than the Master's students.

BC

[slide]

Getting back to golf we are really in it except for Stackhouse down 4 with 6/7 to go.

some predicted a rout in this match, but I don't think any one called it for Lee.


Stackhouse shoots 40 on the front. 

[slide]

Getting back to golf we are really in it except for Stackhouse down 4 with 6/7 to go.

some predicted a rout in this match, but I don't think any one called it for Lee.


Stackhouse shoots 40 on the front. 

[Farm93]

[quote author=BobK link=topic=12165.msg119075#msg119075 date=1432675304]
Getting back to golf we are really in it except for Stackhouse down 4 with 6/7 to go.

some predicted a rout in this match, but I don't think any one called it for Lee.


Stackhouse shoots 40 on the front.
[/quote]

In match play golf one shouldn't predict that anyone is a sure thing.  It still was an odd match-up.

If someone told me USC would wins the 5 vs 1 5 up or so, I would have been delighted to know the teams are both 2 up, 2 down and 1 A/S with a 5-7 holes left to play.

[Farm93]

[quote author=BobK link=topic=12165.msg119075#msg119075 date=1432675304]
Getting back to golf we are really in it except for Stackhouse down 4 with 6/7 to go.

some predicted a rout in this match, but I don't think any one called it for Lee.


Stackhouse shoots 40 on the front.
[/quote]

In match play golf one shouldn't predict that anyone is a sure thing.  It still was an odd match-up.

If someone told me USC would wins the 5 vs 1 5 up or so, I would have been delighted to know the teams are both 2 up, 2 down and 1 A/S with a 5-7 holes left to play.

[Rally]

"Yes, there are more foreign born PhD students than there are undergraduates. "


-BC


I had no idea we had so many PhD students, let alone that many foreign born.

[Rally]

"Yes, there are more foreign born PhD students than there are undergraduates. "


-BC


I had no idea we had so many PhD students, let alone that many foreign born.

[Farm93]

Ugh Stackhouse losing 6 & 5 must be brutal for the team.
Thankfully two are 3 up for Stanford.

So it looks like the other two matches will decide the result, and probable that Park vs Aubert will be the deciding match.

[Farm93]

Ugh Stackhouse losing 6 & 5 must be brutal for the team.
Thankfully two are 3 up for Stanford.

So it looks like the other two matches will decide the result, and probable that Park vs Aubert will be the deciding match.

[BostonCard]

On the other side, Duke and Baylor are 2 up/2 down/1 AS through 17, so it is truly anyone's game.

http://www.ncaa.com/2015-di-womens-golf-...eaderboard

BC

[BostonCard]

On the other side, Duke and Baylor are 2 up/2 down/1 AS through 17, so it is truly anyone's game.

http://www.ncaa.com/2015-di-womens-golf-...eaderboard

BC

[BostonCard]

Danielson and (our) Lauren Kim are 4-up with five and four to play, respectively.
Aubert is 2-up and with four to play
Eijkenboom is 1-down with two to play.

Cautiously optimistic.

BC

[BostonCard]

Danielson and (our) Lauren Kim are 4-up with five and four to play, respectively.
Aubert is 2-up and with four to play
Eijkenboom is 1-down with two to play.

Cautiously optimistic.

BC

[Hulk01]

Duke looked to be cruising.  Now it's all down to one match, sudden death.  90 holes dead even, and one hole in 93 or more determines who gets a shot at the national title.  But I guess that's the same as one shot to win in the NCAA basketball finals, although 90 holes and almost 800 total "points" between two teams makes one point looks much tinier a difference than an 87-86 win in hoops. 

But it's a maddening game.  Thanks God I gave away my clubs.  All three sets.

[Hulk01]

Duke looked to be cruising.  Now it's all down to one match, sudden death.  90 holes dead even, and one hole in 93 or more determines who gets a shot at the national title.  But I guess that's the same as one shot to win in the NCAA basketball finals, although 90 holes and almost 800 total "points" between two teams makes one point looks much tinier a difference than an 87-86 win in hoops. 

But it's a maddening game.  Thanks God I gave away my clubs.  All three sets.