[oldalum]

Well given I have kids past HS none could have taken an honors class to begin with with a 3.0.  So not a valid point. 

Well, no. A kid can have a 4.0 in all non-weighted classes, and then take some honors classes and get B's in them (which then count as A's when you add the point for honors) and end up with a 4.0 weighted GPA. Not as good as a 4.0 unweighted GPA (all A's) in the same classes. Which is why colleges calculate their own GPAs for each applicant. And of course even identical GPAs are not all the same because of differences in classes taken and the difficulty of those classes. Lots of kids with 4.0's are rejected from (I mean not accepted to) Stanford and other selective schools.

[oldalum]

Well given I have kids past HS none could have taken an honors class to begin with with a 3.0.  So not a valid point. 

Well, no. A kid can have a 4.0 in all non-weighted classes, and then take some honors classes and get B's in them (which then count as A's when you add the point for honors) and end up with a 4.0 weighted GPA. Not as good as a 4.0 unweighted GPA (all A's) in the same classes. Which is why colleges calculate their own GPAs for each applicant. And of course even identical GPAs are not all the same because of differences in classes taken and the difficulty of those classes. Lots of kids with 4.0's are rejected from (I mean not accepted to) Stanford and other selective schools.

[BobK]

Back to basketball, we aren't on Chou's final 5

[BobK]

Back to basketball, we aren't on Chou's final 5

[TheFarm07]

Back to basketball, we aren't on Chou's final 5

Of course we aren't.  Though no longer surprising, still disappointing.

I given up on the Class of 2016 for top prospects (it's become an unfortunate recurrence).  What about Class of 2017, any shot at getting a difference maker there?  At this rate, we'll have to wait another 20 years to challenge UConn, N.D., South Carolina for a national title. 

Thanks for all of the discussions about the uncertainty behind GPA calculations, but my underlying point is that in my opinion (however uninformed and naive that it may be), that we shouldn't go through more than half a decade between All-American potential recruits with what we can offer.  It's hard to digest for the last 7 years, the top 5-10 girls' basketball players in the country don't have the qualifications and desire to attend Stanford given that we have made the last weekend of the college season 6 out of the last 8 seasons.  Even if we admitted only 3 of the last 70, that's still a smaller admit rate (4.3%) than our overall student body admit rate (5%).

Given the perfect combination of an unparalleled education and degree and a top tier program with a legendary coach (yes, only UConn, N.D. etc. should expect top 5 recruits every year, but shouldn't we be in the category as well-from a pure basketball standpoint with our credentials?), conventional wisdom would have more girls aiming to play for us from a young age and putting in the hard work necessary to become admitted once they start picking colleges and thus increase our potential to get a top-tier recruit. 

It's a testament to Tara's coaching abilities that she's had the continued success that's she had despite not having the recruits other schools have.

[TheFarm07]

Back to basketball, we aren't on Chou's final 5

Of course we aren't.  Though no longer surprising, still disappointing.

I given up on the Class of 2016 for top prospects (it's become an unfortunate recurrence).  What about Class of 2017, any shot at getting a difference maker there?  At this rate, we'll have to wait another 20 years to challenge UConn, N.D., South Carolina for a national title. 

Thanks for all of the discussions about the uncertainty behind GPA calculations, but my underlying point is that in my opinion (however uninformed and naive that it may be), that we shouldn't go through more than half a decade between All-American potential recruits with what we can offer.  It's hard to digest for the last 7 years, the top 5-10 girls' basketball players in the country don't have the qualifications and desire to attend Stanford given that we have made the last weekend of the college season 6 out of the last 8 seasons.  Even if we admitted only 3 of the last 70, that's still a smaller admit rate (4.3%) than our overall student body admit rate (5%).

Given the perfect combination of an unparalleled education and degree and a top tier program with a legendary coach (yes, only UConn, N.D. etc. should expect top 5 recruits every year, but shouldn't we be in the category as well-from a pure basketball standpoint with our credentials?), conventional wisdom would have more girls aiming to play for us from a young age and putting in the hard work necessary to become admitted once they start picking colleges and thus increase our potential to get a top-tier recruit. 

It's a testament to Tara's coaching abilities that she's had the continued success that's she had despite not having the recruits other schools have.

[Jskass]

have to ask the tough question: is admissions the reason we're not getting those players?

In other words, of all these top players who spurn our advances, are they typically not being admitted? If that's true then we need to focus on this admissions issue.

IF several of them were or are admissible but are rejecting us (other than KLS whom unfortunately we may understand even if we disagree), that is different and may point to different issues such as not being viewed as a  rising or young, exciting program? Think about all the recruits Duke gets just because it's a great school despite the fact that IMHO the coach has done a miserable job with that talent pool. (Personally I think they should fire her and hire Tara's sister!)

[Jskass]

have to ask the tough question: is admissions the reason we're not getting those players?

In other words, of all these top players who spurn our advances, are they typically not being admitted? If that's true then we need to focus on this admissions issue.

IF several of them were or are admissible but are rejecting us (other than KLS whom unfortunately we may understand even if we disagree), that is different and may point to different issues such as not being viewed as a  rising or young, exciting program? Think about all the recruits Duke gets just because it's a great school despite the fact that IMHO the coach has done a miserable job with that talent pool. (Personally I think they should fire her and hire Tara's sister!)

[BobK]

About admissions:  4 years ago we had the # 1 WVB class.  This year we again will have the # 1 class.    Our incoming Frosh Haley Hodson is easily the # 1 recruit in the country. 

So maybe admissions maybe not admissions. 

[BobK]

About admissions:  4 years ago we had the # 1 WVB class.  This year we again will have the # 1 class.    Our incoming Frosh Haley Hodson is easily the # 1 recruit in the country. 

So maybe admissions maybe not admissions. 

[Rally]

About admissions:  4 years ago we had the # 1 WVB class.  This year we again will have the # 1 class.    Our incoming Frosh Haley Hodson is easily the # 1 recruit in the country. 

So maybe admissions maybe not admissions.

Now I am completely confused.  What am I missing?

[Rally]

About admissions:  4 years ago we had the # 1 WVB class.  This year we again will have the # 1 class.    Our incoming Frosh Haley Hodson is easily the # 1 recruit in the country. 

So maybe admissions maybe not admissions.

Now I am completely confused.  What am I missing?

[BurgXXIII]

Ferrari,
you're missing the "V" in Women's VolleyBall

[BurgXXIII]

Ferrari,
you're missing the "V" in Women's VolleyBall

[Rally]

Ferrari,
you're missing the "V" in Women's VolleyBall

Correct and thanks.  I sailed right on by the thread topic and post topic while not carefully reading the post itself. 

[Rally]

Ferrari,
you're missing the "V" in Women's VolleyBall

Correct and thanks.  I sailed right on by the thread topic and post topic while not carefully reading the post itself. 

[Jskass]

So how do we recapture the edge? It's not like Vball has a 35 year old energetic female coach either... Is it the recruiting approach? Staff? I do not expect answers because everything is always complex but we need to figure out what is preventing us from being more successful and fix it if consistent with our identity.

[Jskass]

So how do we recapture the edge? It's not like Vball has a 35 year old energetic female coach either... Is it the recruiting approach? Staff? I do not expect answers because everything is always complex but we need to figure out what is preventing us from being more successful and fix it if consistent with our identity.

[TheFarm07]

Exactly.  If other women's sports can get top recruits on a consistent basis, why can't our women's basketball team?  I thought that our recent FF success would be paying dividends down the road with recruiting, but it hasn't.

[TheFarm07]

Exactly.  If other women's sports can get top recruits on a consistent basis, why can't our women's basketball team?  I thought that our recent FF success would be paying dividends down the road with recruiting, but it hasn't.

[76lsjumb]

Exactly.  If other women's sports can get top recruits on a consistent basis, why can't our women's basketball team?  I thought that our recent FF success would be paying dividends down the road with recruiting, but it hasn't.

Perhaps the really elite HS WBB players don't view our recent history as "recent FF success."


Consider:  In the lifetimes of those now playing, or just about to play, in college, the WVB team has won 2-3 National Championships and been the National Runner-Up five times [with a couple of extremely close defeats], having played in 11 Final Fours.  During that same period, the WBB team has won 0 National Championships and been National Runner-up only twice, having played in nine Final Fours.  Many of us remember the WBB NCAA Championships, having traveled to Knoxville and L.A. to see them.  However, none of today's recruits were even born then.


Also, if you are a WVB player and come to Stanford, you will be playing in what is a highly competitive league that is either clearly the best WVB conference, or one of the top 2-3, every season.  If you are a WBB player and come to Stanford... not so much.


Thus, it doesn't seem beyond the pale that an elite HS WVB player would think that playing at Stanford gives her a reasonably good chance of playing for and even winning a national championship at some point during her career, while an elite HS WBB player might very well not reach the same conclusion.

[76lsjumb]

Exactly.  If other women's sports can get top recruits on a consistent basis, why can't our women's basketball team?  I thought that our recent FF success would be paying dividends down the road with recruiting, but it hasn't.

Perhaps the really elite HS WBB players don't view our recent history as "recent FF success."


Consider:  In the lifetimes of those now playing, or just about to play, in college, the WVB team has won 2-3 National Championships and been the National Runner-Up five times [with a couple of extremely close defeats], having played in 11 Final Fours.  During that same period, the WBB team has won 0 National Championships and been National Runner-up only twice, having played in nine Final Fours.  Many of us remember the WBB NCAA Championships, having traveled to Knoxville and L.A. to see them.  However, none of today's recruits were even born then.


Also, if you are a WVB player and come to Stanford, you will be playing in what is a highly competitive league that is either clearly the best WVB conference, or one of the top 2-3, every season.  If you are a WBB player and come to Stanford... not so much.


Thus, it doesn't seem beyond the pale that an elite HS WVB player would think that playing at Stanford gives her a reasonably good chance of playing for and even winning a national championship at some point during her career, while an elite HS WBB player might very well not reach the same conclusion.

[TheFarm07]

Perhaps the really elite HS WBB players don't view our recent history as "recent FF success."


Consider:  In the lifetimes of those now playing, or just about to play, in college, the WVB team has won 2-3 National Championships and been the National Runner-Up five times [with a couple of extremely close defeats], having played in 11 Final Fours.  During that same period, the WBB team has won 0 National Championships and been National Runner-up only twice, having played in nine Final Fours.  Many of us remember the WBB NCAA Championships, having traveled to Knoxville and L.A. to see them.  However, none of today's recruits were even born then.

Yes, our lack of recent national titles is not good, however besides UConn and N.D., we have been the most consistent postseason program in the country over the last decade or so. 

In the past 6 years since Chiney as the #1 recruit in the Class of 2010 signed with us, schools like Nebraska, Ca.l, Texas, Duke, UCLA, Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, USC, LSU, Northwestern have signed at least one top-10 recruit during that time and we have more Final Four appearances than those schools combined over the last 10 years.

We are clearly in the top-tier of programs, despite a 20+ year drought in national titles. 

Also, if you are a WVB player and come to Stanford, you will be playing in what is a highly competitive league that is either clearly the best WVB conference, or one of the top 2-3, every season.  If you are a WBB player and come to Stanford... not so much.

That hasn't stopped UConn from attracting top-level talent.  I don't think UConn has lost an in-conference game besides to N.D. when they were in the Big East together in years (St. John's in the 2011-12 season) and now that they are in the American Conference, they don't beat opponents, they annihilate them with only South Florida resembling some form of resistance.

[TheFarm07]

Perhaps the really elite HS WBB players don't view our recent history as "recent FF success."


Consider:  In the lifetimes of those now playing, or just about to play, in college, the WVB team has won 2-3 National Championships and been the National Runner-Up five times [with a couple of extremely close defeats], having played in 11 Final Fours.  During that same period, the WBB team has won 0 National Championships and been National Runner-up only twice, having played in nine Final Fours.  Many of us remember the WBB NCAA Championships, having traveled to Knoxville and L.A. to see them.  However, none of today's recruits were even born then.

Yes, our lack of recent national titles is not good, however besides UConn and N.D., we have been the most consistent postseason program in the country over the last decade or so. 

In the past 6 years since Chiney as the #1 recruit in the Class of 2010 signed with us, schools like Nebraska, Ca.l, Texas, Duke, UCLA, Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, USC, LSU, Northwestern have signed at least one top-10 recruit during that time and we have more Final Four appearances than those schools combined over the last 10 years.

We are clearly in the top-tier of programs, despite a 20+ year drought in national titles. 

Also, if you are a WVB player and come to Stanford, you will be playing in what is a highly competitive league that is either clearly the best WVB conference, or one of the top 2-3, every season.  If you are a WBB player and come to Stanford... not so much.

That hasn't stopped UConn from attracting top-level talent.  I don't think UConn has lost an in-conference game besides to N.D. when they were in the Big East together in years (St. John's in the 2011-12 season) and now that they are in the American Conference, they don't beat opponents, they annihilate them with only South Florida resembling some form of resistance.

[76lsjumb]

In the past 6 years since Chiney as the #1 recruit in the Class of 2010 signed with us, schools like Nebraska, Ca.l, Texas, Duke, UCLA, Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, U$€, LSU, Northwestern have signed at least one top-10 recruit during that time and we have more Final Four appearances than those schools combined over the last 10 years.

We are clearly in the top-tier of programs, despite a 20+ year drought in national titles. 

*********

That hasn't stopped UConn from attracting top-level talent.  I don't think UConn has lost an in-conference game besides to N.D. when they were in the Big East together in years (St. John's in the 2011-12 season) and now that they are in the American Conference, they don't beat opponents, they annihilate them with only South Florida resembling some form of resistance.

Regarding your first point, I'm thinking that -- with changes to the exact numbers and to some of the schools listed (like, say, adding Stanford to the list) -- Pat Summitt might have thought something very similar when Jennifer Azzi went across the country, rather than across the street, to attend Stanford.  Azzi, however, was likely thinking that it would be really neat to go to Stanford and be the player that lead them to their first National Championship.  I can understand an elite HS player choosing to go to a school without any National Championships as opposed to the "almost but not quite" history that Stanford has had over the past 20+ years so that she could be the one that made the difference a la Azzi.


As for the second point, the top level talent attracted by UConn probably doesn't even think about the conference -- everything before March is pre-season for them [including their annual game against us].  You go to UConn because the evidence suggests you've got a pretty good shot at winning the whole thing.  Even if you're not "the one" that got the team there, the national championship ring still looks nice...


My fear is that were in that purgatory between those two situations -- the perennial also-ran.  Like Florida in WVB.  Or, perhaps, Stanford baseball at the moment ...

[76lsjumb]

In the past 6 years since Chiney as the #1 recruit in the Class of 2010 signed with us, schools like Nebraska, Ca.l, Texas, Duke, UCLA, Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, U$€, LSU, Northwestern have signed at least one top-10 recruit during that time and we have more Final Four appearances than those schools combined over the last 10 years.

We are clearly in the top-tier of programs, despite a 20+ year drought in national titles. 

*********

That hasn't stopped UConn from attracting top-level talent.  I don't think UConn has lost an in-conference game besides to N.D. when they were in the Big East together in years (St. John's in the 2011-12 season) and now that they are in the American Conference, they don't beat opponents, they annihilate them with only South Florida resembling some form of resistance.

Regarding your first point, I'm thinking that -- with changes to the exact numbers and to some of the schools listed (like, say, adding Stanford to the list) -- Pat Summitt might have thought something very similar when Jennifer Azzi went across the country, rather than across the street, to attend Stanford.  Azzi, however, was likely thinking that it would be really neat to go to Stanford and be the player that lead them to their first National Championship.  I can understand an elite HS player choosing to go to a school without any National Championships as opposed to the "almost but not quite" history that Stanford has had over the past 20+ years so that she could be the one that made the difference a la Azzi.


As for the second point, the top level talent attracted by UConn probably doesn't even think about the conference -- everything before March is pre-season for them [including their annual game against us].  You go to UConn because the evidence suggests you've got a pretty good shot at winning the whole thing.  Even if you're not "the one" that got the team there, the national championship ring still looks nice...


My fear is that were in that purgatory between those two situations -- the perennial also-ran.  Like Florida in WVB.  Or, perhaps, Stanford baseball at the moment ...

[TheFarm07]

Everybody's in that purgatory right now. UConn has won three championships in a row and seven out of nine. Even Brittney Griner managed to interrupt the Huskies only once in her four years. So, yes, we do not have the best program in the county country, a distinction we share with 350 other schools.

True, right now UConn is a step above everyone else or maybe two steps, but UConn does have a roster limit and last time I checked, they can only start 5 players at one time like everyone else.  Not every top recruit can go there and then not everyone can start, so the other programs do have a chance of getting other top recruits.

But it is an interesting point that Stanford may be caught between UConn and the programs that want to make a name for themselves for the 1st time, but still I think that Stanford's combination of a highly successful program and an elite education should be a stronger selling point than it is.

[TheFarm07]

Everybody's in that purgatory right now. UConn has won three championships in a row and seven out of nine. Even Brittney Griner managed to interrupt the Huskies only once in her four years. So, yes, we do not have the best program in the county country, a distinction we share with 350 other schools.

True, right now UConn is a step above everyone else or maybe two steps, but UConn does have a roster limit and last time I checked, they can only start 5 players at one time like everyone else.  Not every top recruit can go there and then not everyone can start, so the other programs do have a chance of getting other top recruits.

But it is an interesting point that Stanford may be caught between UConn and the programs that want to make a name for themselves for the 1st time, but still I think that Stanford's combination of a highly successful program and an elite education should be a stronger selling point than it is.

[81alum]

Back to basketball, we aren't on Chou's final 5

Interesting list.  She says she is still considering Duke, Baylor, Berkeley, UCLA, Texas, TCU and Louisville.

She has dropped South Carolina, Colorado, Stanford, Georgetown and UConn. 

Baylor, Texas and TCU I understand due to her local connection.  But why would she keep Berkeley and UCLA on her list and drop Stanford unless there was an academic issue?  (Somewhere she self-reported a 3.7 gpa, whatever that may mean.)  And I wonder what happened to UConn?  Does Geno not need her?  And if she were interested in an up-and-coming program with a young coach, why not South Carolina?  I am positive that these were carefully considered choices, given that she has two basketball parents.  But I don't begin to understand them.

On the various BB boards much speculation has her staying in Texas.  Maybe the rest of it is window dressing.

That brings the list of recruits discussed on this Board and still possibly in the mix for 2016 to these.  With our latest transfer we might have four scholarships to give.

Anna Wilson (committed)
Dijonai Carrington 
Celeste West
Mikayla Pivec

Keep in mind that in recent years Tara usually discloses some surprise recruits that we never guessed, so this is still very speculative.

[81alum]

Back to basketball, we aren't on Chou's final 5

Interesting list.  She says she is still considering Duke, Baylor, Berkeley, UCLA, Texas, TCU and Louisville.

She has dropped South Carolina, Colorado, Stanford, Georgetown and UConn. 

Baylor, Texas and TCU I understand due to her local connection.  But why would she keep Berkeley and UCLA on her list and drop Stanford unless there was an academic issue?  (Somewhere she self-reported a 3.7 gpa, whatever that may mean.)  And I wonder what happened to UConn?  Does Geno not need her?  And if she were interested in an up-and-coming program with a young coach, why not South Carolina?  I am positive that these were carefully considered choices, given that she has two basketball parents.  But I don't begin to understand them.

On the various BB boards much speculation has her staying in Texas.  Maybe the rest of it is window dressing.

That brings the list of recruits discussed on this Board and still possibly in the mix for 2016 to these.  With our latest transfer we might have four scholarships to give.

Anna Wilson (committed)
Dijonai Carrington 
Celeste West
Mikayla Pivec

Keep in mind that in recent years Tara usually discloses some surprise recruits that we never guessed, so this is still very speculative.

[81alum]

Taylor Rooks has transferred to Harvard.  Introduced to their campers yesterday. 

Something I have been wondering about.  The transfer deadline for Harvard is March 1, and I am pretty sure that Harvard doesn't make exceptions for athletes.  Taylor must have decided to leave well before the end of the season.  I wonder if she was promised a lot more playing time at Harvard, or if this had nothing to do with basketball.  It is so unusual for anyone to transfer away from Stanford.  Anyone since Jamie Carey, who left under very different circumstances?

[81alum]

Taylor Rooks has transferred to Harvard.  Introduced to their campers yesterday. 

Something I have been wondering about.  The transfer deadline for Harvard is March 1, and I am pretty sure that Harvard doesn't make exceptions for athletes.  Taylor must have decided to leave well before the end of the season.  I wonder if she was promised a lot more playing time at Harvard, or if this had nothing to do with basketball.  It is so unusual for anyone to transfer away from Stanford.  Anyone since Jamie Carey, who left under very different circumstances?

[TheFarm07]

Didn't Michelle Harrison transfer to Utah for her senior year a few years ago?

[TheFarm07]

Didn't Michelle Harrison transfer to Utah for her senior year a few years ago?

[BobK]

Rooks decided after the season when she visited Harvard, Spring Break.  No clue on her mindset before that. 

[BobK]

Rooks decided after the season when she visited Harvard, Spring Break.  No clue on her mindset before that. 

[81alum]

I'm correct:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70008...tml?pg=all

Yes, I remember that.  On the one hand, our coaches have consistently said that they will not guarantee a fifth year in the event of a redshirt.  The fifth year depends completely on the needs of the team at the time, so a player who has to take a medical redshirt is guaranteed four years of education but not four years of basketball.  Some like Mel Murphy were given the fifth year, some like Sara Boothe either were not or did not desire it, some like Ruef were initially not given the fifth year but eventually found their way back to a scholarship.  In Michelle's case, she did not get the fifth year, but she got a very supportive coach who basically arranged for her transfer to her regional home school where she got much more playing time than she would have at Stanford.  Many coaches would not have been so helpful, but Tara does have the reputation of going out of her way to help her players (and even recruits--see what she did for Penina Davidson) when it comes to such things. 

[81alum]

I'm correct:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70008...tml?pg=all

Yes, I remember that.  On the one hand, our coaches have consistently said that they will not guarantee a fifth year in the event of a redshirt.  The fifth year depends completely on the needs of the team at the time, so a player who has to take a medical redshirt is guaranteed four years of education but not four years of basketball.  Some like Mel Murphy were given the fifth year, some like Sara Boothe either were not or did not desire it, some like Ruef were initially not given the fifth year but eventually found their way back to a scholarship.  In Michelle's case, she did not get the fifth year, but she got a very supportive coach who basically arranged for her transfer to her regional home school where she got much more playing time than she would have at Stanford.  Many coaches would not have been so helpful, but Tara does have the reputation of going out of her way to help her players (and even recruits--see what she did for Penina Davidson) when it comes to such things. 

[81alum]

Rooks decided after the season when she visited Harvard, Spring Break.  No clue on her mindset before that.

She probably was admitted to Harvard the year before, so perhaps they waived the normal transfer application.

[81alum]

Rooks decided after the season when she visited Harvard, Spring Break.  No clue on her mindset before that.

She probably was admitted to Harvard the year before, so perhaps they waived the normal transfer application.