[JohnOlenchalk]

is deeper and better than the '92 Blockbuster Lynch/Wyman D and the Ralston Rose Bowl d's in my rarely humble opinion.  Mason and his assistants are doing a great job.

There is definitely a coaching problem on the offensive side.  From play selection, to time management, to personnel, to kicking game.  Shaw's default setting is what I call our "prevent offense".    He displayed it last year, culminated with his Fiesta Bowl nonsense.  He's showed it this year from game one.  He's lucky the D has been there to bail him out, and that Stepfan Taylor is such a stud and the O-line has stepped up after losing DeCastro and Martin.  I'm just getting tired of the passivity from his game plans to his press conferences.  I can't get comfortable with this team, because 5-2 should be 7-0, and with a few breaks it could be 3-4...and we are coming into a very rough patch after the next two weeks...I expect us to beat everyone but Oregon, but losing to ND and WA is going to put us in a second rate bowl even if it plays out that way.  By now, our offense should have an identity instead of grab bagging around, mediocre qb or not.

[JohnOlenchalk]

is deeper and better than the '92 Blockbuster Lynch/Wyman D and the Ralston Rose Bowl d's in my rarely humble opinion.  Mason and his assistants are doing a great job.

There is definitely a coaching problem on the offensive side.  From play selection, to time management, to personnel, to kicking game.  Shaw's default setting is what I call our "prevent offense".    He displayed it last year, culminated with his Fiesta Bowl nonsense.  He's showed it this year from game one.  He's lucky the D has been there to bail him out, and that Stepfan Taylor is such a stud and the O-line has stepped up after losing DeCastro and Martin.  I'm just getting tired of the passivity from his game plans to his press conferences.  I can't get comfortable with this team, because 5-2 should be 7-0, and with a few breaks it could be 3-4...and we are coming into a very rough patch after the next two weeks...I expect us to beat everyone but Oregon, but losing to ND and WA is going to put us in a second rate bowl even if it plays out that way.  By now, our offense should have an identity instead of grab bagging around, mediocre qb or not.

[76lsjumb]

At the risk of sounding like an apologist, I would suggest it's just a teensy bit early to suggest we "whiffed" on Hogan, whose career passing efficiency rating is 505.6, or Lloyd, who has yet to take a collegiate snap.

Seems to me it's also a little early to be calling this year's defense a "once-in-a-decade" defense going to waste.  Of the 24 players on this week's depth chart, only 5 are in their last year of eligibility, which means potentially 19 returnees.  And, of those 19, 11 are either freshmen or sophomores eligibility-wise.  No question that some of those leaving after this year are outstanding, but the underclassmen certainly seem to be improving as the season goes on, suggesting that it's not unreasonable that we may have just as good [indeed, maybe better] a defense next year...nine years earlier than would be the case if this were truly a "once-in-a-decade" defense.

[76lsjumb]

At the risk of sounding like an apologist, I would suggest it's just a teensy bit early to suggest we "whiffed" on Hogan, whose career passing efficiency rating is 505.6, or Lloyd, who has yet to take a collegiate snap.

Seems to me it's also a little early to be calling this year's defense a "once-in-a-decade" defense going to waste.  Of the 24 players on this week's depth chart, only 5 are in their last year of eligibility, which means potentially 19 returnees.  And, of those 19, 11 are either freshmen or sophomores eligibility-wise.  No question that some of those leaving after this year are outstanding, but the underclassmen certainly seem to be improving as the season goes on, suggesting that it's not unreasonable that we may have just as good [indeed, maybe better] a defense next year...nine years earlier than would be the case if this were truly a "once-in-a-decade" defense.

[76lsjumb]

At the risk of sounding like an apologist, I would suggest it's just a teensy bit early to suggest we "whiffed" on Hogan, whose career passing efficiency rating is 505.6, or Lloyd, who has yet to take a collegiate snap.

Seems to me it's also a little early to be calling this year's defense a "once-in-a-decade" defense going to waste.  Of the 24 players on this week's depth chart, only 5 are in their last year of eligibility, which means potentially 19 returnees.  And, of those 19, 11 are either freshmen or sophomores eligibility-wise.  No question that some of those leaving after this year are outstanding, but the underclassmen certainly seem to be improving as the season goes on, suggesting that it's not unreasonable that we may have just as good [indeed, maybe better] a defense next year...nine years earlier than would be the case if this were truly a "once-in-a-decade" defense.

[76lsjumb]

At the risk of sounding like an apologist, I would suggest it's just a teensy bit early to suggest we "whiffed" on Hogan, whose career passing efficiency rating is 505.6, or Lloyd, who has yet to take a collegiate snap.

Seems to me it's also a little early to be calling this year's defense a "once-in-a-decade" defense going to waste.  Of the 24 players on this week's depth chart, only 5 are in their last year of eligibility, which means potentially 19 returnees.  And, of those 19, 11 are either freshmen or sophomores eligibility-wise.  No question that some of those leaving after this year are outstanding, but the underclassmen certainly seem to be improving as the season goes on, suggesting that it's not unreasonable that we may have just as good [indeed, maybe better] a defense next year...nine years earlier than would be the case if this were truly a "once-in-a-decade" defense.

[JohnOlenchalk]

that it's just a great defense that's been wasted in 2 very winnable losses so far?  I mean, c'mon, when you offense doesn't score a TD on the two true road games, and yet the defense does...

[JohnOlenchalk]

that it's just a great defense that's been wasted in 2 very winnable losses so far?  I mean, c'mon, when you offense doesn't score a TD on the two true road games, and yet the defense does...

[JohnOlenchalk]

that it's just a great defense that's been wasted in 2 very winnable losses so far?  I mean, c'mon, when you offense doesn't score a TD on the two true road games, and yet the defense does...

[JohnOlenchalk]

that it's just a great defense that's been wasted in 2 very winnable losses so far?  I mean, c'mon, when you offense doesn't score a TD on the two true road games, and yet the defense does...

[fullmetal]

76lsjumb, I know what you mean.  But you can't predict whether some NFL team will hire away Derek Mason or whether bad luck might affect the players next season.  The vagaries of fate don't allow for a lot of year-to-year determinism when it comes to football.  I would love for next year's defense to be just as good as or even better than this year's defense, but you know, for holding kal to 3.86 inches per rushing attempt, I think this year's defense deserves some acclaim :)

[fullmetal]

76lsjumb, I know what you mean.  But you can't predict whether some NFL team will hire away Derek Mason or whether bad luck might affect the players next season.  The vagaries of fate don't allow for a lot of year-to-year determinism when it comes to football.  I would love for next year's defense to be just as good as or even better than this year's defense, but you know, for holding kal to 3.86 inches per rushing attempt, I think this year's defense deserves some acclaim :)

[fullmetal]

76lsjumb, I know what you mean.  But you can't predict whether some NFL team will hire away Derek Mason or whether bad luck might affect the players next season.  The vagaries of fate don't allow for a lot of year-to-year determinism when it comes to football.  I would love for next year's defense to be just as good as or even better than this year's defense, but you know, for holding kal to 3.86 inches per rushing attempt, I think this year's defense deserves some acclaim :)

[fullmetal]

76lsjumb, I know what you mean.  But you can't predict whether some NFL team will hire away Derek Mason or whether bad luck might affect the players next season.  The vagaries of fate don't allow for a lot of year-to-year determinism when it comes to football.  I would love for next year's defense to be just as good as or even better than this year's defense, but you know, for holding kal to 3.86 inches per rushing attempt, I think this year's defense deserves some acclaim :)

[76lsjumb]

fullmetal -- Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to denigrate this year's defense one bit.  Indeed, I think it has been incredible.  Nor am I naive enough to think that the relative injury-free quality of the season so far is a lock to continue indefinitely [but am certainly knocking on wood that it will].  Nor do I imagine that our defensive coaches' qualities will go unnoticed [although I'm hoping the current AD will be willing to build them whatever restroom facilities they may want...]

I was only reacting to what I perceived as the increasingly "doom and gloom" tone of this now-8-page long string [with a truly unfortunate subject line].  To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?  Oh yeah, we should have won the Fiesta Bowl!

Having followed Stanford football for 50+ years, I can't think of all of the seasons I would have killed for being 5-2, with a win over S.C. AND K.al in the same season to boot...

Sorry...end of rant.  [I do confess, though, that the most recent Hitler parody clip [re the N.D. loss] was pretty funny...]

[76lsjumb]

fullmetal -- Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to denigrate this year's defense one bit.  Indeed, I think it has been incredible.  Nor am I naive enough to think that the relative injury-free quality of the season so far is a lock to continue indefinitely [but am certainly knocking on wood that it will].  Nor do I imagine that our defensive coaches' qualities will go unnoticed [although I'm hoping the current AD will be willing to build them whatever restroom facilities they may want...]

I was only reacting to what I perceived as the increasingly "doom and gloom" tone of this now-8-page long string [with a truly unfortunate subject line].  To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?  Oh yeah, we should have won the Fiesta Bowl!

Having followed Stanford football for 50+ years, I can't think of all of the seasons I would have killed for being 5-2, with a win over S.C. AND K.al in the same season to boot...

Sorry...end of rant.  [I do confess, though, that the most recent Hitler parody clip [re the N.D. loss] was pretty funny...]

[76lsjumb]

fullmetal -- Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to denigrate this year's defense one bit.  Indeed, I think it has been incredible.  Nor am I naive enough to think that the relative injury-free quality of the season so far is a lock to continue indefinitely [but am certainly knocking on wood that it will].  Nor do I imagine that our defensive coaches' qualities will go unnoticed [although I'm hoping the current AD will be willing to build them whatever restroom facilities they may want...]

I was only reacting to what I perceived as the increasingly "doom and gloom" tone of this now-8-page long string [with a truly unfortunate subject line].  To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?  Oh yeah, we should have won the Fiesta Bowl!

Having followed Stanford football for 50+ years, I can't think of all of the seasons I would have killed for being 5-2, with a win over S.C. AND K.al in the same season to boot...

Sorry...end of rant.  [I do confess, though, that the most recent Hitler parody clip [re the N.D. loss] was pretty funny...]

[76lsjumb]

fullmetal -- Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to denigrate this year's defense one bit.  Indeed, I think it has been incredible.  Nor am I naive enough to think that the relative injury-free quality of the season so far is a lock to continue indefinitely [but am certainly knocking on wood that it will].  Nor do I imagine that our defensive coaches' qualities will go unnoticed [although I'm hoping the current AD will be willing to build them whatever restroom facilities they may want...]

I was only reacting to what I perceived as the increasingly "doom and gloom" tone of this now-8-page long string [with a truly unfortunate subject line].  To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?  Oh yeah, we should have won the Fiesta Bowl!

Having followed Stanford football for 50+ years, I can't think of all of the seasons I would have killed for being 5-2, with a win over S.C. AND K.al in the same season to boot...

Sorry...end of rant.  [I do confess, though, that the most recent Hitler parody clip [re the N.D. loss] was pretty funny...]

[jayasena]

To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?

The kicker. He's terrible too. And the QBs who have not played. They are terrible as well. And the one QB commit in this class -- he's rated lower than the guys in the program (you know, the ones who are terrible).

[jayasena]

To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?

The kicker. He's terrible too. And the QBs who have not played. They are terrible as well. And the one QB commit in this class -- he's rated lower than the guys in the program (you know, the ones who are terrible).

[jayasena]

To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?

The kicker. He's terrible too. And the QBs who have not played. They are terrible as well. And the one QB commit in this class -- he's rated lower than the guys in the program (you know, the ones who are terrible).

[jayasena]

To review the bidding:  The QB is terrible.  The WR's are terrible.  5-2 is terrible, because it should be 7-0.  The coaches are terrible.  The defense is great...but it won't last beyond this year... 

Have I missed anything?

The kicker. He's terrible too. And the QBs who have not played. They are terrible as well. And the one QB commit in this class -- he's rated lower than the guys in the program (you know, the ones who are terrible).

[JohnOlenchalk]

last 50 years (what 3 trips to the Rose Bowl?) as being the new standard we should expect of the program since Harbaugh.  Let's not have a repeat of the fall from BCS status to nearly a self imposed death penalty that occurred from Willingham's departure for ND through the Teevens/Harris years.  Harbaugh established a new paradigm, I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

[JohnOlenchalk]

last 50 years (what 3 trips to the Rose Bowl?) as being the new standard we should expect of the program since Harbaugh.  Let's not have a repeat of the fall from BCS status to nearly a self imposed death penalty that occurred from Willingham's departure for ND through the Teevens/Harris years.  Harbaugh established a new paradigm, I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

[JohnOlenchalk]

last 50 years (what 3 trips to the Rose Bowl?) as being the new standard we should expect of the program since Harbaugh.  Let's not have a repeat of the fall from BCS status to nearly a self imposed death penalty that occurred from Willingham's departure for ND through the Teevens/Harris years.  Harbaugh established a new paradigm, I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

[JohnOlenchalk]

last 50 years (what 3 trips to the Rose Bowl?) as being the new standard we should expect of the program since Harbaugh.  Let's not have a repeat of the fall from BCS status to nearly a self imposed death penalty that occurred from Willingham's departure for ND through the Teevens/Harris years.  Harbaugh established a new paradigm, I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

You have to keep the pedal to the metal and DEMAND performance from the program and head coach, or you risk rationalizing losing and accepting the fact the program can't do it.  You could become California, with a fan base that makes more excuses for their team's lousy performance than probably any fan base on the planet. 

The Washington and Notre Dame games should not be swept under the rug, and neither should the fact Stanford is playing a 53% passer without apparent competition at the position.  This thread is great because it shows a lot of passion from fans about the topic, that people want more than 5-2, and they realize it is possible.

You have to keep up this mentality in order to sustain excellence.  The greatest takeaway I took from reading Bill Walsh's books was the important of establishing a standard of performance and holding people accountable to it.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

You have to keep the pedal to the metal and DEMAND performance from the program and head coach, or you risk rationalizing losing and accepting the fact the program can't do it.  You could become California, with a fan base that makes more excuses for their team's lousy performance than probably any fan base on the planet. 

The Washington and Notre Dame games should not be swept under the rug, and neither should the fact Stanford is playing a 53% passer without apparent competition at the position.  This thread is great because it shows a lot of passion from fans about the topic, that people want more than 5-2, and they realize it is possible.

You have to keep up this mentality in order to sustain excellence.  The greatest takeaway I took from reading Bill Walsh's books was the important of establishing a standard of performance and holding people accountable to it.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

You have to keep the pedal to the metal and DEMAND performance from the program and head coach, or you risk rationalizing losing and accepting the fact the program can't do it.  You could become California, with a fan base that makes more excuses for their team's lousy performance than probably any fan base on the planet. 

The Washington and Notre Dame games should not be swept under the rug, and neither should the fact Stanford is playing a 53% passer without apparent competition at the position.  This thread is great because it shows a lot of passion from fans about the topic, that people want more than 5-2, and they realize it is possible.

You have to keep up this mentality in order to sustain excellence.  The greatest takeaway I took from reading Bill Walsh's books was the important of establishing a standard of performance and holding people accountable to it.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm not for letting Shaw off the hook or settling back into the old Stanford FB comfort zone that maybe some of you guys seem to be rationalizing.  And using that type of rationalization is exactly how you can lose it within a couple years at Stanford.

You have to keep the pedal to the metal and DEMAND performance from the program and head coach, or you risk rationalizing losing and accepting the fact the program can't do it.  You could become California, with a fan base that makes more excuses for their team's lousy performance than probably any fan base on the planet. 

The Washington and Notre Dame games should not be swept under the rug, and neither should the fact Stanford is playing a 53% passer without apparent competition at the position.  This thread is great because it shows a lot of passion from fans about the topic, that people want more than 5-2, and they realize it is possible.

You have to keep up this mentality in order to sustain excellence.  The greatest takeaway I took from reading Bill Walsh's books was the important of establishing a standard of performance and holding people accountable to it.

[vataha]

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

[vataha]

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

[vataha]

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

[vataha]

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

[Rando]

Hey guys, I love this team and am very proud of the way we have played this season. 5-2 is very good, and 6-2 is even better.

Let's take one game at a time and appreciate how far Stanford has come. This is a GREAT time to be a Stanford fan. brobdingnagian playmakers on this team and a bunch of freshman that are going to take us to the 4 team playoff in years to come.

I'm still hopeful we win our remaining games. I believe in our guys. GO STANFORD!

[Rando]

Hey guys, I love this team and am very proud of the way we have played this season. 5-2 is very good, and 6-2 is even better.

Let's take one game at a time and appreciate how far Stanford has come. This is a GREAT time to be a Stanford fan. brobdingnagian playmakers on this team and a bunch of freshman that are going to take us to the 4 team playoff in years to come.

I'm still hopeful we win our remaining games. I believe in our guys. GO STANFORD!

[Rando]

Hey guys, I love this team and am very proud of the way we have played this season. 5-2 is very good, and 6-2 is even better.

Let's take one game at a time and appreciate how far Stanford has come. This is a GREAT time to be a Stanford fan. brobdingnagian playmakers on this team and a bunch of freshman that are going to take us to the 4 team playoff in years to come.

I'm still hopeful we win our remaining games. I believe in our guys. GO STANFORD!

[Rando]

Hey guys, I love this team and am very proud of the way we have played this season. 5-2 is very good, and 6-2 is even better.

Let's take one game at a time and appreciate how far Stanford has come. This is a GREAT time to be a Stanford fan. brobdingnagian playmakers on this team and a bunch of freshman that are going to take us to the 4 team playoff in years to come.

I'm still hopeful we win our remaining games. I believe in our guys. GO STANFORD!

[JohnR34231]

I think there should be some reasonable level of expectations between accepting mediocrity (which pretty much defines the last few decades of Stanford football up to 2010) and thinking we should have a top ten team that makes it to a BCS bowl every year.

Obviously there is room for improvement on this years team. However, screaming and yelling because we are not 7-0 is a bit much, at least IMO.

[JohnR34231]

I think there should be some reasonable level of expectations between accepting mediocrity (which pretty much defines the last few decades of Stanford football up to 2010) and thinking we should have a top ten team that makes it to a BCS bowl every year.

Obviously there is room for improvement on this years team. However, screaming and yelling because we are not 7-0 is a bit much, at least IMO.