[BostonCard]

Willie Hernandez is the missing MVP in place of Rivera, who never won the Cy Young or MVP, but was a unanimous Hall of Famer as consolation.

Shocking that Rivera is the only unanimous Hall of Famer, but also one of 14 pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young since 1956 (when the Cy Young was established).

BC

[BostonCard]

Willie Hernandez is the missing MVP in place of Rivera, who never won the Cy Young or MVP, but was a unanimous Hall of Famer as consolation.

Shocking that Rivera is the only unanimous Hall of Famer, but also one of 14 pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young since 1956 (when the Cy Young was established).

BC

[Giants]

Willie Hernandez is the missing MVP in place of Rivera, who never won the Cy Young or MVP, but was a unanimous Hall of Famer as consolation.

Shocking that Rivera is the only unanimous Hall of Famer, but also one of 14 pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young since 1956 (when the Cy Young was established).

BC

The unanimous HOF vote issue is a long standing topic of discussion.  Some of the old guard writers would not vote for a player on the first ballot as a matter of principal.  Hence, guys like Mays, Aaron and Seaver were not unanimously elected.  Since the old guard has left us, a new wave of writers (ten year membership in the BBWA is required to receive a ballot) is now in a position to make “new traditions”.  One of which is that it is “ok” if a player receives 100% of the votes.  Rivera was the first beneficiary of this new approach to voting.

[Giants]

Willie Hernandez is the missing MVP in place of Rivera, who never won the Cy Young or MVP, but was a unanimous Hall of Famer as consolation.

Shocking that Rivera is the only unanimous Hall of Famer, but also one of 14 pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young since 1956 (when the Cy Young was established).

BC

The unanimous HOF vote issue is a long standing topic of discussion.  Some of the old guard writers would not vote for a player on the first ballot as a matter of principal.  Hence, guys like Mays, Aaron and Seaver were not unanimously elected.  Since the old guard has left us, a new wave of writers (ten year membership in the BBWA is required to receive a ballot) is now in a position to make “new traditions”.  One of which is that it is “ok” if a player receives 100% of the votes.  Rivera was the first beneficiary of this new approach to voting.

[BostonCard]

The other HoFers who never won a Cy Young:

Bert Blyleven
Jim Bunning
Goose Gossage
Trevor Hoffman
Juan Marichal
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Phil Niekro
Robin Roberts
Nolan Ryan
Lee Smith
Don Sutton
Hoyt Wilhelm


How could Nolan Ryan never have won a Cy?

BC

[BostonCard]

The other HoFers who never won a Cy Young:

Bert Blyleven
Jim Bunning
Goose Gossage
Trevor Hoffman
Juan Marichal
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Phil Niekro
Robin Roberts
Nolan Ryan
Lee Smith
Don Sutton
Hoyt Wilhelm


How could Nolan Ryan never have won a Cy?

BC

[Phogge]

You forgot Cy Young. Never won a Cy Young.

Fingers won the MVP with the Brewers.

[Phogge]

You forgot Cy Young. Never won a Cy Young.

Fingers won the MVP with the Brewers.

[BostonCard]

You forgot Cy Young. Never won a Cy Young.

Fingers won the MVP with the Brewers.

Since 1956, the first year the Cy Young was awarded.

BC

[BostonCard]

You forgot Cy Young. Never won a Cy Young.

Fingers won the MVP with the Brewers.

Since 1956, the first year the Cy Young was awarded.

BC

[lex24]

Speaking of Cy Young.  The story of the award is interesting.  There had been a growing “movement” to have an award for the top pitcher. Ford Frick, then the Commissioner, was against it.  Felt pitchers could win MVP like any other player, didn’t need their own award. Then Cy Young died in ‘55.  He was beloved.  Thus, Frick changed his mind.  First awarded in ‘56. Only one awarded  until ‘67 (after Frick retired) when it expanded to one in both leagues.

[lex24]

Speaking of Cy Young.  The story of the award is interesting.  There had been a growing “movement” to have an award for the top pitcher. Ford Frick, then the Commissioner, was against it.  Felt pitchers could win MVP like any other player, didn’t need their own award. Then Cy Young died in ‘55.  He was beloved.  Thus, Frick changed his mind.  First awarded in ‘56. Only one awarded  until ‘67 (after Frick retired) when it expanded to one in both leagues.

[Phogge]

You forgot Cy Young. Never won a Cy Young.,

Fingers won the MVP with the Brewers.

Since 1956, the first year the Cy Young was awarded.

BC

It’s a joke son.

[Phogge]

You forgot Cy Young. Never won a Cy Young.,

Fingers won the MVP with the Brewers.

Since 1956, the first year the Cy Young was awarded.

BC

It’s a joke son.

[Mick]

The other HoFers who never won a Cy Young:

Bert Blyleven
Jim Bunning
Goose Gossage
Trevor Hoffman
Juan Marichal
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Phil Niekro
Robin Roberts
Nolan Ryan
Lee Smith
Don Sutton
Hoyt Wilhelm


How could Nolan Ryan never have won a Cy?

BC

Ryan was a good pitcher, finishing in the top 5 in Cy Young voting six separate times.  He was a HoF'er because he was an iron man, he's the career leader in strikeouts (and walks) and has the lowest average # of hits given up per nine innings.  Ryan's closest year was when he went 21-16, but Jim Palmer went 22-9.

Similar story for Blyleven.  His best year he was 19-7, but Willie Hernandez won as a reliever.

Marichal might have lost out to incipient racism.  Dean Chance won it in 1964 with a 20-9 record the year that Marichal went 21-8. And Marichal lost to Koufax numerous times.  His best year, Bob Gibson had his 1.12 ERA year (Gibson went 22-9, Marichal went 26-9).

Niekro's best year was 23-13 when Seaver went 25-7.  Niekro finished 2nd in the voting.

Morris led the league in wins, went 21-6, but he had a 4.04 ERA.  Eckersley had 51 saves and won the CY that year.  

Wilhelm was a testament to longevity.  Led the league in ERA twice, but never had more than 27 saves in a season.

Mussina finished 2nd with an 18-7 record the year that Pedro Martinez went 23-4.

Hoffman finished 2nd twice; to Brandon Webb who went 16-8 (head scratcher). the other time, Glavine went 20-6. 

Sutton's best year -- and the only year he won 20+ -- he went 21-10 with a 3.06 ERA.  Randy Jones went 22-14 with a 2.74 ERA.  Koosman finished second, also at 21-10.

The real question is how Gaylord Perry won it for Cleveland with a 24-16 record, the most losses of any Cy Young winner. That year, Catfish Hunter went 21-7 for the world champion A's, and Luis Tiant went 15-6.

[Mick]

The other HoFers who never won a Cy Young:

Bert Blyleven
Jim Bunning
Goose Gossage
Trevor Hoffman
Juan Marichal
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Phil Niekro
Robin Roberts
Nolan Ryan
Lee Smith
Don Sutton
Hoyt Wilhelm


How could Nolan Ryan never have won a Cy?

BC

Ryan was a good pitcher, finishing in the top 5 in Cy Young voting six separate times.  He was a HoF'er because he was an iron man, he's the career leader in strikeouts (and walks) and has the lowest average # of hits given up per nine innings.  Ryan's closest year was when he went 21-16, but Jim Palmer went 22-9.

Similar story for Blyleven.  His best year he was 19-7, but Willie Hernandez won as a reliever.

Marichal might have lost out to incipient racism.  Dean Chance won it in 1964 with a 20-9 record the year that Marichal went 21-8. And Marichal lost to Koufax numerous times.  His best year, Bob Gibson had his 1.12 ERA year (Gibson went 22-9, Marichal went 26-9).

Niekro's best year was 23-13 when Seaver went 25-7.  Niekro finished 2nd in the voting.

Morris led the league in wins, went 21-6, but he had a 4.04 ERA.  Eckersley had 51 saves and won the CY that year.  

Wilhelm was a testament to longevity.  Led the league in ERA twice, but never had more than 27 saves in a season.

Mussina finished 2nd with an 18-7 record the year that Pedro Martinez went 23-4.

Hoffman finished 2nd twice; to Brandon Webb who went 16-8 (head scratcher). the other time, Glavine went 20-6. 

Sutton's best year -- and the only year he won 20+ -- he went 21-10 with a 3.06 ERA.  Randy Jones went 22-14 with a 2.74 ERA.  Koosman finished second, also at 21-10.

The real question is how Gaylord Perry won it for Cleveland with a 24-16 record, the most losses of any Cy Young winner. That year, Catfish Hunter went 21-7 for the world champion A's, and Luis Tiant went 15-6.

[Phogge]

Gaylord provided more entertainment value than most pitchers. His act was scrutinized by TV, the league and the fans. When he was with the Giants he lathered up with some slippery stuff and he was one of those guys who could sweat while standing naked in a blizzard. He had hitters thinking about the wet one and he still threw hard in his late career. So his heater was even more effective.

[Phogge]

Gaylord provided more entertainment value than most pitchers. His act was scrutinized by TV, the league and the fans. When he was with the Giants he lathered up with some slippery stuff and he was one of those guys who could sweat while standing naked in a blizzard. He had hitters thinking about the wet one and he still threw hard in his late career. So his heater was even more effective.

[BostonCard]

That is, of course, putting a lot of weight on wins.  Bill James has a Cy Young predictor.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung


[*]Cy Young Points (CYP) = ((5*IP/9)-ER) + (SO/12) + (SV*2.5) + Shutouts + ((W*6)-(L*2)) + VB (see below).
[*]VB: Victory Bonus is a 12-point bonus awarded for leading your team to the division championship


Wins * 6 means that wins carry a lot of weight (even though they are only partially under the pitcher's control).  Interesting that losses are de-valued compared to wins, so going 20-8 (.714) is better than going 18-6 (.75), all else being equal.

BC

[BostonCard]

That is, of course, putting a lot of weight on wins.  Bill James has a Cy Young predictor.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung


[*]Cy Young Points (CYP) = ((5*IP/9)-ER) + (SO/12) + (SV*2.5) + Shutouts + ((W*6)-(L*2)) + VB (see below).
[*]VB: Victory Bonus is a 12-point bonus awarded for leading your team to the division championship


Wins * 6 means that wins carry a lot of weight (even though they are only partially under the pitcher's control).  Interesting that losses are de-valued compared to wins, so going 20-8 (.714) is better than going 18-6 (.75), all else being equal.

BC

[Phogge]

Some of the great winners are often overlooked. Raschi and Reynolds of the Yankees, Pappas of Baltimore and Cincy, Pierce of the White Sox and Giants, Podres of the Dodgers, Curt Simmons of the Phils and Cards. Guys who beat you 2-1 or 6-5.

[Phogge]

Some of the great winners are often overlooked. Raschi and Reynolds of the Yankees, Pappas of Baltimore and Cincy, Pierce of the White Sox and Giants, Podres of the Dodgers, Curt Simmons of the Phils and Cards. Guys who beat you 2-1 or 6-5.

[DC 86]

That is, of course, putting a lot of weight on wins.  Bill James has a Cy Young predictor.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung


[*]Cy Young Points (CYP) = ((5*IP/9)-ER) + (SO/12) + (SV*2.5) + Shutouts + ((W*6)-(L*2)) + VB (see below).
[*]VB: Victory Bonus is a 12-point bonus awarded for leading your team to the division championship


Wins * 6 means that wins carry a lot of weight (even though they are only partially under the pitcher's control).  Interesting that losses are de-valued compared to wins, so going 20-8 (.714) is better than going 18-6 (.75), all else being equal.

BC

The Bill James predictor is out of date at this point. W-L record still carries a lot of weight (too much weight) but far less than it did in the past, and I don't think James has recalibrated his model.

Last year Trevor Bauer won the NL Cy with a 5-4 record even though Yu Darvish went 8-3 and Max Fried 7-0. Jacob DeGrom won the previous two NL Cys with 11-8 and 10-9 records.

[DC 86]

That is, of course, putting a lot of weight on wins.  Bill James has a Cy Young predictor.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung


[*]Cy Young Points (CYP) = ((5*IP/9)-ER) + (SO/12) + (SV*2.5) + Shutouts + ((W*6)-(L*2)) + VB (see below).
[*]VB: Victory Bonus is a 12-point bonus awarded for leading your team to the division championship


Wins * 6 means that wins carry a lot of weight (even though they are only partially under the pitcher's control).  Interesting that losses are de-valued compared to wins, so going 20-8 (.714) is better than going 18-6 (.75), all else being equal.

BC

The Bill James predictor is out of date at this point. W-L record still carries a lot of weight (too much weight) but far less than it did in the past, and I don't think James has recalibrated his model.

Last year Trevor Bauer won the NL Cy with a 5-4 record even though Yu Darvish went 8-3 and Max Fried 7-0. Jacob DeGrom won the previous two NL Cys with 11-8 and 10-9 records.

[BostonCard]

[*]
The Bill James predictor is out of date at this point. W-L record still carries a lot of weight (too much weight) but far less than it did in the past, and I don't think James has recalibrated his model.

Last year Trevor Bauer won the NL Cy with a 5-4 record even though Yu Darvish went 8-3 and Max Fried 7-0. Jacob DeGrom won the previous two NL Cys with 11-8 and 10-9 records.

This is a good point, but I am applying it retroactively to the list of pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young.  The Bill James predictor should be better calibrated for them, and as Mick points out, a lot of them were beaten out in their peak year by a pitcher with more wins.

BC

[BostonCard]

[*]
The Bill James predictor is out of date at this point. W-L record still carries a lot of weight (too much weight) but far less than it did in the past, and I don't think James has recalibrated his model.

Last year Trevor Bauer won the NL Cy with a 5-4 record even though Yu Darvish went 8-3 and Max Fried 7-0. Jacob DeGrom won the previous two NL Cys with 11-8 and 10-9 records.

This is a good point, but I am applying it retroactively to the list of pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young.  The Bill James predictor should be better calibrated for them, and as Mick points out, a lot of them were beaten out in their peak year by a pitcher with more wins.

BC

[DC 86]

[*]
The Bill James predictor is out of date at this point. W-L record still carries a lot of weight (too much weight) but far less than it did in the past, and I don't think James has recalibrated his model.

Last year Trevor Bauer won the NL Cy with a 5-4 record even though Yu Darvish went 8-3 and Max Fried 7-0. Jacob DeGrom won the previous two NL Cys with 11-8 and 10-9 records.

This is a good point, but I am applying it retroactively to the list of pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young.  The Bill James predictor should be better calibrated for them, and as Mick points out, a lot of them were beaten out in their peak year by a pitcher with more wins.

BC

Ah, I misunderstood. Indeed, Bill James formulated his predictor in the 1980s based on the results of previous Cy Young votes, so the historic overvaluing of wins is perfectly reflected in his model. Only recently has the electorate evolved and made the model more or less obsolete.

[DC 86]

[*]
The Bill James predictor is out of date at this point. W-L record still carries a lot of weight (too much weight) but far less than it did in the past, and I don't think James has recalibrated his model.

Last year Trevor Bauer won the NL Cy with a 5-4 record even though Yu Darvish went 8-3 and Max Fried 7-0. Jacob DeGrom won the previous two NL Cys with 11-8 and 10-9 records.

This is a good point, but I am applying it retroactively to the list of pitchers in the HoF who never won a Cy Young.  The Bill James predictor should be better calibrated for them, and as Mick points out, a lot of them were beaten out in their peak year by a pitcher with more wins.

BC

Ah, I misunderstood. Indeed, Bill James formulated his predictor in the 1980s based on the results of previous Cy Young votes, so the historic overvaluing of wins is perfectly reflected in his model. Only recently has the electorate evolved and made the model more or less obsolete.

[Mick]

Some of the great winners are often overlooked. Raschi and Reynolds of the Yankees, Pappas of Baltimore and Cincy, Pierce of the White Sox and Giants, Podres of the Dodgers, Curt Simmons of the Phils and Cards. Guys who beat you 2-1 or 6-5.

Ed Ruelbach (182-106).  Had a leg kick like Marichal.  Pitched for the Cubs with Mordecai Brown.  Won four pennants.  Held the NL record consecutive scoreless inning streak with 44 at one time.

Bucky Walters (198-160).  Started as a third baseman.  League MVP in 1939.

Wilbur Cooper (216-178).  Played for Pirates.  Lon Warneke (192-121)  Won 20 3x, the "Arkansas Hummingbird."  Mickey Lolich.  Faced down Bob Gibson in game 7, 1968 world series.  2,832 strikeouts, third among lefties.  

Will White (229-166), 2.28 career ERA.  First player to wear glasses when he played.  Holds record for most innings in one season (680), and most starts (75).

Tommy John (288-231).  Pitched in October for six consecutive seasons with the Dodgers, Yankees and Angels.  Has 46 shutouts.

Tommy Bridges (194-138), Tigers.  Pitched with Schoolboy Rowe, Bobo Newsom, Hal Newhowser, Virgil Trucks and Dizzy Trout.  Best drop-off-the-table curveball f his ERA.  Won 20 three times in the mid -30s.  Played for Portland in the PCL, then the Seals as a 43 year old in 1950.

Babe Adams (194-140).  Greg Maddux of his era. Gave up 18 walks in 263 innings in 1920.

Jim McCormick (265-214), first Scottish born major leaguer.  Won 40 games twice.  Al Spalding didn't like that he partied.

Tony Mullane (284-220).  Irish born.  Won 30 games three consecutive seasons.  In Cincinnati Reds HoF.

[Mick]

Some of the great winners are often overlooked. Raschi and Reynolds of the Yankees, Pappas of Baltimore and Cincy, Pierce of the White Sox and Giants, Podres of the Dodgers, Curt Simmons of the Phils and Cards. Guys who beat you 2-1 or 6-5.

Ed Ruelbach (182-106).  Had a leg kick like Marichal.  Pitched for the Cubs with Mordecai Brown.  Won four pennants.  Held the NL record consecutive scoreless inning streak with 44 at one time.

Bucky Walters (198-160).  Started as a third baseman.  League MVP in 1939.

Wilbur Cooper (216-178).  Played for Pirates.  Lon Warneke (192-121)  Won 20 3x, the "Arkansas Hummingbird."  Mickey Lolich.  Faced down Bob Gibson in game 7, 1968 world series.  2,832 strikeouts, third among lefties.  

Will White (229-166), 2.28 career ERA.  First player to wear glasses when he played.  Holds record for most innings in one season (680), and most starts (75).

Tommy John (288-231).  Pitched in October for six consecutive seasons with the Dodgers, Yankees and Angels.  Has 46 shutouts.

Tommy Bridges (194-138), Tigers.  Pitched with Schoolboy Rowe, Bobo Newsom, Hal Newhowser, Virgil Trucks and Dizzy Trout.  Best drop-off-the-table curveball f his ERA.  Won 20 three times in the mid -30s.  Played for Portland in the PCL, then the Seals as a 43 year old in 1950.

Babe Adams (194-140).  Greg Maddux of his era. Gave up 18 walks in 263 innings in 1920.

Jim McCormick (265-214), first Scottish born major leaguer.  Won 40 games twice.  Al Spalding didn't like that he partied.

Tony Mullane (284-220).  Irish born.  Won 30 games three consecutive seasons.  In Cincinnati Reds HoF.

[BostonCard]

Tommy John (288-231).  Pitched in October for six consecutive seasons with the Dodgers, Yankees and Angels.  Has 46 shutouts.

Also, the first baseball player to undergo an ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction, known eponymously as the Tommy John surgery. Frank Jobe, the Dodgers orthopedic surgeon who performed the surgery, gave it a 1 in 100 chance of succeeding. 164 out of John’s 288 wins came after the surgery. Today, close to 90% achieve a full recovery, though about 35% of pitchers never get back to the major leagues.

BC

[BostonCard]

Tommy John (288-231).  Pitched in October for six consecutive seasons with the Dodgers, Yankees and Angels.  Has 46 shutouts.

Also, the first baseball player to undergo an ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction, known eponymously as the Tommy John surgery. Frank Jobe, the Dodgers orthopedic surgeon who performed the surgery, gave it a 1 in 100 chance of succeeding. 164 out of John’s 288 wins came after the surgery. Today, close to 90% achieve a full recovery, though about 35% of pitchers never get back to the major leagues.

BC

[Phogge]

The dreaded Cardboard word “politics” has always found a place with the BWAA.

[Phogge]

The dreaded Cardboard word “politics” has always found a place with the BWAA.

[Mick]

The dreaded Cardboard word “politics” has always found a place with the BWAA.

23 didn't vote for Willie Mays for the HoF.  9 didn't vote for Aaron.  11 didn't vote for Babe Ruth.  4 said no to Cobb.  20 said no to ted Williams.  23 said no to Musial.  21 said no to Christy Mathewson.  28 said no to DiMaggio, 43 to Mantle, 57 to Berra, 37 to Walter Johnson, 47 to Foxx, 51 to Hornsby, 36 to Jackie Robinson, and my personal favorite, 48 said no thank you to Denton True (Cy) Young.

[Mick]

The dreaded Cardboard word “politics” has always found a place with the BWAA.

23 didn't vote for Willie Mays for the HoF.  9 didn't vote for Aaron.  11 didn't vote for Babe Ruth.  4 said no to Cobb.  20 said no to ted Williams.  23 said no to Musial.  21 said no to Christy Mathewson.  28 said no to DiMaggio, 43 to Mantle, 57 to Berra, 37 to Walter Johnson, 47 to Foxx, 51 to Hornsby, 36 to Jackie Robinson, and my personal favorite, 48 said no thank you to Denton True (Cy) Young.

[Phogge]

Spud Chandler 106-43, .717% (Third all time).
Bob Caruthers 218-99, 2.83
Smokey Joe Wood 117-57, 2.03, 34-5 in 1912 10 shutouts.

[Phogge]

Spud Chandler 106-43, .717% (Third all time).
Bob Caruthers 218-99, 2.83
Smokey Joe Wood 117-57, 2.03, 34-5 in 1912 10 shutouts.

[DC 86]

Frank Jobe, the Dodgers orthopedic surgeon who performed the surgery, gave it a 1 in 100 chance of succeeding.  164 out of John’s 288 wins came after the surgery.  Today, close to 90% achieve a full recovery, though about 35% of pitchers never get back to the major leagues.

BC

I have always thought that Frank Jobe should be in the Hall of Fame.

[DC 86]

Frank Jobe, the Dodgers orthopedic surgeon who performed the surgery, gave it a 1 in 100 chance of succeeding.  164 out of John’s 288 wins came after the surgery.  Today, close to 90% achieve a full recovery, though about 35% of pitchers never get back to the major leagues.

BC

I have always thought that Frank Jobe should be in the Hall of Fame.