[BostonCard]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/o...ved-ground

I just don't get why we've gotten to the point where disputes over mask can lead to violence.

BC

[BostonCard]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/o...ved-ground

I just don't get why we've gotten to the point where disputes over mask can lead to violence.

BC

[teejers1]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/o...ved-ground

I just don't get why we've gotten to the point where disputes over mask can lead to violence.

BC

Agreed.
The article relays this incident as the latest in a string of fatal confrontations.
Then list 3 over several months . . . worldwide.  Doesn't lessen the tragedy for each of these incidents; however, it does underscore that the overwhelming majority of folks are complying (I'd say full stop - but certainly complying without violent confrontations).  There are, unfortunately, a lot of senseless deaths in this country alone over stupid/trivial disputes.

BTW, the most egregious, in order, from the article:  (i) the bus driver, (ii) the store worker, and then (iii) the bar patron.  The embedded links were not to those other incidents, at least when I clicked on them they were not.

[teejers1]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/o...ved-ground

I just don't get why we've gotten to the point where disputes over mask can lead to violence.

BC

Agreed.
The article relays this incident as the latest in a string of fatal confrontations.
Then list 3 over several months . . . worldwide.  Doesn't lessen the tragedy for each of these incidents; however, it does underscore that the overwhelming majority of folks are complying (I'd say full stop - but certainly complying without violent confrontations).  There are, unfortunately, a lot of senseless deaths in this country alone over stupid/trivial disputes.

BTW, the most egregious, in order, from the article:  (i) the bus driver, (ii) the store worker, and then (iii) the bar patron.  The embedded links were not to those other incidents, at least when I clicked on them they were not.

[lex24]

I’m pretty sure you can find 3 people getting killed over 7 months over just about any issue you can imagine.  Awful. Should never happen. But indicative of nothing.

[lex24]

I’m pretty sure you can find 3 people getting killed over 7 months over just about any issue you can imagine.  Awful. Should never happen. But indicative of nothing.

[M T]

Whether the dispute was over lewd comments to the staff/patrons or whether it was about failure to wear a mask, violence is not appropriate and should be punished appropriately.  But, the incident made the news outside of the local area because of the mask issue.  After reading more detail (CNN and NYT stories), I suspect the mask issue may not have been the main reason for the disagreement between the patrons, but like a broken tail light, it was an issue that could be cited by the person (and subsequent victim) that complained.

It doesn't sound like the man accused of a crime did more than push/shove the victim (which then led to the death 4 days later, and apparently makes the intentional push a potential felony). No closed fists to the face or use of weapons; no repeated hitting; I see no claim of intent to kill. The shove is described as a two-handed shove "out of the blue", which caused the victim to fall.

I don't mean to suggest that alcohol-impaired judgement is the reason here (indeed, I see reports that neither was intoxicated, but "both men had been at the bar for a few hours"), but I'm sure that violence occurs too often (in bars, at sporting events, and other places) for seemingly minor issues.

[M T]

Whether the dispute was over lewd comments to the staff/patrons or whether it was about failure to wear a mask, violence is not appropriate and should be punished appropriately.  But, the incident made the news outside of the local area because of the mask issue.  After reading more detail (CNN and NYT stories), I suspect the mask issue may not have been the main reason for the disagreement between the patrons, but like a broken tail light, it was an issue that could be cited by the person (and subsequent victim) that complained.

It doesn't sound like the man accused of a crime did more than push/shove the victim (which then led to the death 4 days later, and apparently makes the intentional push a potential felony). No closed fists to the face or use of weapons; no repeated hitting; I see no claim of intent to kill. The shove is described as a two-handed shove "out of the blue", which caused the victim to fall.

I don't mean to suggest that alcohol-impaired judgement is the reason here (indeed, I see reports that neither was intoxicated, but "both men had been at the bar for a few hours"), but I'm sure that violence occurs too often (in bars, at sporting events, and other places) for seemingly minor issues.

[Mick]

What surprised me the most was the age of the principals, 65 and 80. Senior citizens need to be battling over masks?  Sheesh...

[Mick]

What surprised me the most was the age of the principals, 65 and 80. Senior citizens need to be battling over masks?  Sheesh...

[BostonCard]

What surprised me the most was the age of the principals, 65 and 80. Senior citizens need to be battling over masks?  Sheesh...

I had the exact same reaction.

BC

[BostonCard]

What surprised me the most was the age of the principals, 65 and 80. Senior citizens need to be battling over masks?  Sheesh...

I had the exact same reaction.

BC

[fullmetal]

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

[fullmetal]

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

[Goose]

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

Either that or people are so depressed by the current situation, both political and public health wise, that they go off real easy. I don't know about everyone else's experience, but lately I have seen what I believe are many more short tempered folks who are ready to fight at the drop of a hat, at least yelling-wise.

[Goose]

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

Either that or people are so depressed by the current situation, both political and public health wise, that they go off real easy. I don't know about everyone else's experience, but lately I have seen what I believe are many more short tempered folks who are ready to fight at the drop of a hat, at least yelling-wise.

[lex24]

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

Either that or people are so depressed by the current situation, both political and public health wise, that they go off real easy. I don't know about everyone else's experience, but lately I have seen what I believe are many more short tempered folks who are ready to fight at the drop of a hat, at least yelling-wise.

I agree that tempers are shorter these days.  A lot of shite going on.  

But I still don’t think 3 killings of the 7.7 billion people on the planet are indicative of anything.

---

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

Either that or people are so depressed by the current situation, both political and public health wise, that they go off real easy. I don't know about everyone else's experience, but lately I have seen what I believe are many more short tempered folks who are ready to fight at the drop of a hat, at least yelling-wise.

I agree that tempers are shorter these days.  A lot of shite going on.  

And senior citizens often have shorter tempers. Especially if they have senility issues.  Again 3 worldwide isn’t exactly a trend.  

[lex24]

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

Either that or people are so depressed by the current situation, both political and public health wise, that they go off real easy. I don't know about everyone else's experience, but lately I have seen what I believe are many more short tempered folks who are ready to fight at the drop of a hat, at least yelling-wise.

I agree that tempers are shorter these days.  A lot of shite going on.  

But I still don’t think 3 killings of the 7.7 billion people on the planet are indicative of anything.

---

I don't think this is "indicative of nothing" as lex24 puts it.  Eight months ago, you would not see this kind of behavior from senior citizens over something like a mask.  The disinformation campaigns that have polarized our nation against a robust public health response are directly responsible for this division in the culture war, and now we have this happening.

Either that or people are so depressed by the current situation, both political and public health wise, that they go off real easy. I don't know about everyone else's experience, but lately I have seen what I believe are many more short tempered folks who are ready to fight at the drop of a hat, at least yelling-wise.

I agree that tempers are shorter these days.  A lot of shite going on.  

And senior citizens often have shorter tempers. Especially if they have senility issues.  Again 3 worldwide isn’t exactly a trend.  

[M T]

I started to respond with a small list of bar killings, but decided it was obvious.  (Many reports didn't list a cause (beyond "disagreement").)  I did run across a bar killing that was thought to be related to a LSU - Alabama football game a few years ago, and a killing related to whether a particular college basketball coach was considered good or not.  Also a bar killing related to an arm wrestling match.  (I did run across a fatal stabbing related to mask wearing that wasn't mentioned in the posted article.) 

Killings too often happen over disagreements that seem inconsequential.  I'm sure negligent homicides occur related to even more inconsequential things.

Sobering lists:  Every homicide victim in Chicago (2018, 2019, 2020).  Multiple (4+ victims) shootings in the US.  NYC crime stats shows some dramatic increases & dramatic decreases 2020 vs 2019.
Whether you want to blame global warming, anxiety over COVID, lockdowns, economic consequences of the pandemic, increased polarization of the populace, Trump, "them" (for any value of "them"), or the alignment of the planets, there are some troubling numbers in there.

I feel like putting up a couple of polls:
  1) Did you read any other articles besides the one in the original post?
  2) Do you believe the disagreement was primarily about wearing/not wearing a mask, or something else?

[M T]

I started to respond with a small list of bar killings, but decided it was obvious.  (Many reports didn't list a cause (beyond "disagreement").)  I did run across a bar killing that was thought to be related to a LSU - Alabama football game a few years ago, and a killing related to whether a particular college basketball coach was considered good or not.  Also a bar killing related to an arm wrestling match.  (I did run across a fatal stabbing related to mask wearing that wasn't mentioned in the posted article.) 

Killings too often happen over disagreements that seem inconsequential.  I'm sure negligent homicides occur related to even more inconsequential things.

Sobering lists:  Every homicide victim in Chicago (2018, 2019, 2020).  Multiple (4+ victims) shootings in the US.  NYC crime stats shows some dramatic increases & dramatic decreases 2020 vs 2019.
Whether you want to blame global warming, anxiety over COVID, lockdowns, economic consequences of the pandemic, increased polarization of the populace, Trump, "them" (for any value of "them"), or the alignment of the planets, there are some troubling numbers in there.

I feel like putting up a couple of polls:
  1) Did you read any other articles besides the one in the original post?
  2) Do you believe the disagreement was primarily about wearing/not wearing a mask, or something else?

[Genuine Realist]

I started to respond with a small list of bar killings, but decided it was obvious.  (Many reports didn't list a cause (beyond "disagreement").)  I did run across a bar killing that was thought to be related to a LSU - Alabama football game a few years ago, and a killing related to whether a particular college basketball coach was considered good or not.  Also a bar killing related to an arm wrestling match.  (I did run across a fatal stabbing related to mask wearing that wasn't mentioned in the posted article.) 

Killings too often happen over disagreements that seem inconsequential.  I'm sure negligent homicides occur related to even more inconsequential things.

Sobering lists:  Every homicide victim in Chicago (2018, 2019, 2020).  Multiple (4+ victims) shootings in the US.  NYC crime stats shows some dramatic increases & dramatic decreases 2020 vs 2019.
Whether you want to blame global warming, anxiety over COVID, lockdowns, economic consequences of the pandemic, increased polarization of the populace, Trump, "them" (for any value of "them"), or the alignment of the planets, there are some troubling numbers in there.

I feel like putting up a couple of polls:
  1) Did you read any other articles besides the one in the original post?
  2) Do you believe the disagreement was primarily about wearing/not wearing a mask, or something else?

It was hardly necessary to add that the argument occurred in a bar.

[Genuine Realist]

I started to respond with a small list of bar killings, but decided it was obvious.  (Many reports didn't list a cause (beyond "disagreement").)  I did run across a bar killing that was thought to be related to a LSU - Alabama football game a few years ago, and a killing related to whether a particular college basketball coach was considered good or not.  Also a bar killing related to an arm wrestling match.  (I did run across a fatal stabbing related to mask wearing that wasn't mentioned in the posted article.) 

Killings too often happen over disagreements that seem inconsequential.  I'm sure negligent homicides occur related to even more inconsequential things.

Sobering lists:  Every homicide victim in Chicago (2018, 2019, 2020).  Multiple (4+ victims) shootings in the US.  NYC crime stats shows some dramatic increases & dramatic decreases 2020 vs 2019.
Whether you want to blame global warming, anxiety over COVID, lockdowns, economic consequences of the pandemic, increased polarization of the populace, Trump, "them" (for any value of "them"), or the alignment of the planets, there are some troubling numbers in there.

I feel like putting up a couple of polls:
  1) Did you read any other articles besides the one in the original post?
  2) Do you believe the disagreement was primarily about wearing/not wearing a mask, or something else?

It was hardly necessary to add that the argument occurred in a bar.

[fullmetal]

The FBI arrested a bunch of armed men who had planned on kidnapping the Michigan governor for her coronavirus public health response policies.

Usually I wouldn't think public health policies led to armed kidnapping of the highest state official.

But I guess this is either *totally random* or *it happens all the time* so it's not indicative of *anything.*

Neither was the train engineer who tried to ram the USNS hospital ship in southern California.  Neither was the boogaloo-wannabe who killed a federal officer in Oakland.  

*Not indicative of anything*... :(

[fullmetal]

The FBI arrested a bunch of armed men who had planned on kidnapping the Michigan governor for her coronavirus public health response policies.

Usually I wouldn't think public health policies led to armed kidnapping of the highest state official.

But I guess this is either *totally random* or *it happens all the time* so it's not indicative of *anything.*

Neither was the train engineer who tried to ram the USNS hospital ship in southern California.  Neither was the boogaloo-wannabe who killed a federal officer in Oakland.  

*Not indicative of anything*... :(