[Goose]

Amen!  If Ukraine loses, the anti Russians in Ukraine will have limited options. Get out while they can, go underground, or spend the rest of their lives in a Gulag in far Eastern Russia. We don't really understand how deep the dislikes or even hate goes.  More like the Hatfield and McCoy's on steroids.  As in the Middle East, the conflicts are severe and lasting.

Very true. As in the Middle East it often causes people to adopt positions and policies that an outside rational observer would believe to be simply insane. This often leads to miscalculations, where one party thinks "If we do X, they will do Y", when in the event the other party in fact does Q.

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Besides, if Russia imposes its terms, I'd think a lot of the anti-Russian Ukrainians will disappear or be helped out a window.
Fear will be a strong motivator for the rest of the not-so-Russian Ukrainians.

And, of course, there will be an "election" that shows that 97% want Putin to take over the country.

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As far as losers in a war and their attitude about the victors, it seems Germany, Japan, and Italy would be examples.  But I'm not sure that Ukraine would feel the same -- they weren't the aggressors in this war.

I would add financial gain to fear. It is known that several wealthy families in the Ukrainian areas occupied by Russia in 2014 sent some of their sons to Ukraine, where they proclaimed Ukrainian loyalty. The rest of the family stayed and declared Russian loyalty. That way, whoever wins, part of the family is on that side and "wins" too. They hope to preserve their fortunes that way. It is a very 15th century Italian model, but it is alive and well in Ukraine.

IMO the "aggressor" status matters little. Each individual rationalizes "I didn't start the war, I am a victim". Some nations continue to resist after defeat in conventional war, either by actual guerrilla warfare or passive resistance. If there are ethnic or religious differences involved such outcomes are more probable. Arguably neither apply to Ukraine. While some actively resist there are always plenty of collaborators who take advantage of opportunities to "get ahead" by working for the "victors". Most people do neither and just try to get by. In many cases they were "oppressed" before and are now just oppressed by different people :-). In the case of Germany, Italy, and Japan it was very quickly made clear that the US wasn't interested in taking over these countries. That legitimizes not resisting and taking advantage of what is available.

It must be added that the Stockholm Syndrome is real and that "converts" often attempt to prove their loyalty via excessive zeal.

[Goose]

Amen!  If Ukraine loses, the anti Russians in Ukraine will have limited options. Get out while they can, go underground, or spend the rest of their lives in a Gulag in far Eastern Russia. We don't really understand how deep the dislikes or even hate goes.  More like the Hatfield and McCoy's on steroids.  As in the Middle East, the conflicts are severe and lasting.

Very true. As in the Middle East it often causes people to adopt positions and policies that an outside rational observer would believe to be simply insane. This often leads to miscalculations, where one party thinks "If we do X, they will do Y", when in the event the other party in fact does Q.

---

Besides, if Russia imposes its terms, I'd think a lot of the anti-Russian Ukrainians will disappear or be helped out a window.
Fear will be a strong motivator for the rest of the not-so-Russian Ukrainians.

And, of course, there will be an "election" that shows that 97% want Putin to take over the country.

----
As far as losers in a war and their attitude about the victors, it seems Germany, Japan, and Italy would be examples.  But I'm not sure that Ukraine would feel the same -- they weren't the aggressors in this war.

I would add financial gain to fear. It is known that several wealthy families in the Ukrainian areas occupied by Russia in 2014 sent some of their sons to Ukraine, where they proclaimed Ukrainian loyalty. The rest of the family stayed and declared Russian loyalty. That way, whoever wins, part of the family is on that side and "wins" too. They hope to preserve their fortunes that way. It is a very 15th century Italian model, but it is alive and well in Ukraine.

IMO the "aggressor" status matters little. Each individual rationalizes "I didn't start the war, I am a victim". Some nations continue to resist after defeat in conventional war, either by actual guerrilla warfare or passive resistance. If there are ethnic or religious differences involved such outcomes are more probable. Arguably neither apply to Ukraine. While some actively resist there are always plenty of collaborators who take advantage of opportunities to "get ahead" by working for the "victors". Most people do neither and just try to get by. In many cases they were "oppressed" before and are now just oppressed by different people :-). In the case of Germany, Italy, and Japan it was very quickly made clear that the US wasn't interested in taking over these countries. That legitimizes not resisting and taking advantage of what is available.

It must be added that the Stockholm Syndrome is real and that "converts" often attempt to prove their loyalty via excessive zeal.