[Giants]

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I thought Lex was getting the last word ;)

Also, a minor correction.  It was A J. Preller who dumped Melvin.  Ken Rosenthal probably wrote the article to which you were referring.  Hence the mix-up.  

Lastly, Melvin can’t do anything to improve the talent level in the organization.  He can only work with what he is given.  IMO, SF is going nowhere until Zaidi is fired.  Once a more aggressive (and less analytical) guy is in charge, Melvin will be in a position to contend.

That was the Super Bowl thread... ;)  Baseball is still fair game.

No, Melvin couldn't do anything to improve the talent -- same as Kapler. Of course, he could try to improve the talent through individual coaching, as Kapler's coaches seemed to do in 2021 when most of the regulars had career or near-career years. Oh well. C'est la vie.

To your point on Preller...he's gone through a bunch of managers. I wonder if he ever wakes up in the morning, looks in the mirror and thinks "maybe it's me...?"

Mick, I don’t think “individual coaching” helped Posey, Crawford and Belt as much as the shortened (or in Posey’s case year off) ‘20 helped their bodies rebound. 

And for proof, I give you ‘22.  When both Crawford and Belt dropped off significantly.

Uh huh. I have a few questions and observations...

a) Did the shortened year in 2020 not help the pitchers on the other teams in 2021 as well as the Giants hitters? By your logic, shouldn't the pitchers have improved as well?
b) For that matter, the overall MLB batting average went down by .001, from .245 in 2020 to .244 in 2021. Wouldn't the phenomenon you describe affect all MLB hitters, not just the Giants hitters? 
c) As much as the Giants starting hitters improved, their backup hitters did worse, considerably worse. Shouldn't they have improved as well?
d) The Giants' fielding dramatically improved between 2020 and 2021, from 7 to 40 Rtot. 
e) Giant ERA+ went from 93 in 2020 to 120 in 2021. That's a measure that compares Giant pitching to the rest of the league. In other words, the Giants' pitching staff improved relative to the pitching in the rest of the league, not because they had additional rest in 2020.
f) Belt rebounded in 2023. Crawford got old and tanked. Belt's coach Schneider, the 2023 AL Manager of the Year has a .572 career winning record and a .549 record last season. He obviously knows how to manage and presumably he has some excellent coaches there that got Belt to a superb result.

As much as we all might hate to admit it, the guy that Farhan fired hired a coaching staff that took Bochy's teams which went 64-98, 73-89 and 77-85 from 2017 to 2019, and turned them into a 107-55 team in the first full season after three years' worth of debacles. I don't really understand the mental contortions that people go through to discount 2021 as if the whole season were a Bobby Ewing dream and it just didn't "count". Isn't the more logical conclusion that Kapler's new coaching staff and his managing resulted in the most regular-season wins that any Giants team has EVER had ever?

And that's why I expect Bob Melvin's Giants to get into the playoffs, based upon the assertions I've read on this board, fundamentally that Kapler was trash that no one liked or respected, that he didn't know what he was talking about, that his career, season and ceiling win record was a mirage that shouldn't be compared to his prior or subsequent head coach and that Melvin is the Saviour. I hope he is, I really hope he is. As Giants (the CardBoard poster) says, a manager should be worth 5-7 games. Since the Giants have added Soler, Lee, Ray, Murphy, Hicks -- and Snell, Chapman and Montgomery, among others, remain unsigned, and the Giants only have the 13th largest payroll and are $26.5 mms. under the luxury tax threshold, and they lost some serious (and highly-paid) underperformers like Manaea, Stripling, Haniger, Junis, Brebbia, Pederson and DeSclafani -- I have to assume that Melvin's Giants will improve from 79 wins to at least 89. One or two more FA's, and I would expect 95 wins.

Yep.  Since the Giants, as currently constructed, are a 70 win bunch under a generic manager, they should win an additional 5 under Melvin, giving them 75.  :)

[Giants]

1708223224[/url]']

1708219678[/url]']

1708210595[/url]']

1708205293[/url]']
I thought Lex was getting the last word ;)

Also, a minor correction.  It was A J. Preller who dumped Melvin.  Ken Rosenthal probably wrote the article to which you were referring.  Hence the mix-up.  

Lastly, Melvin can’t do anything to improve the talent level in the organization.  He can only work with what he is given.  IMO, SF is going nowhere until Zaidi is fired.  Once a more aggressive (and less analytical) guy is in charge, Melvin will be in a position to contend.

That was the Super Bowl thread... ;)  Baseball is still fair game.

No, Melvin couldn't do anything to improve the talent -- same as Kapler. Of course, he could try to improve the talent through individual coaching, as Kapler's coaches seemed to do in 2021 when most of the regulars had career or near-career years. Oh well. C'est la vie.

To your point on Preller...he's gone through a bunch of managers. I wonder if he ever wakes up in the morning, looks in the mirror and thinks "maybe it's me...?"

Mick, I don’t think “individual coaching” helped Posey, Crawford and Belt as much as the shortened (or in Posey’s case year off) ‘20 helped their bodies rebound. 

And for proof, I give you ‘22.  When both Crawford and Belt dropped off significantly.

Uh huh. I have a few questions and observations...

a) Did the shortened year in 2020 not help the pitchers on the other teams in 2021 as well as the Giants hitters? By your logic, shouldn't the pitchers have improved as well?
b) For that matter, the overall MLB batting average went down by .001, from .245 in 2020 to .244 in 2021. Wouldn't the phenomenon you describe affect all MLB hitters, not just the Giants hitters? 
c) As much as the Giants starting hitters improved, their backup hitters did worse, considerably worse. Shouldn't they have improved as well?
d) The Giants' fielding dramatically improved between 2020 and 2021, from 7 to 40 Rtot. 
e) Giant ERA+ went from 93 in 2020 to 120 in 2021. That's a measure that compares Giant pitching to the rest of the league. In other words, the Giants' pitching staff improved relative to the pitching in the rest of the league, not because they had additional rest in 2020.
f) Belt rebounded in 2023. Crawford got old and tanked. Belt's coach Schneider, the 2023 AL Manager of the Year has a .572 career winning record and a .549 record last season. He obviously knows how to manage and presumably he has some excellent coaches there that got Belt to a superb result.

As much as we all might hate to admit it, the guy that Farhan fired hired a coaching staff that took Bochy's teams which went 64-98, 73-89 and 77-85 from 2017 to 2019, and turned them into a 107-55 team in the first full season after three years' worth of debacles. I don't really understand the mental contortions that people go through to discount 2021 as if the whole season were a Bobby Ewing dream and it just didn't "count". Isn't the more logical conclusion that Kapler's new coaching staff and his managing resulted in the most regular-season wins that any Giants team has EVER had ever?

And that's why I expect Bob Melvin's Giants to get into the playoffs, based upon the assertions I've read on this board, fundamentally that Kapler was trash that no one liked or respected, that he didn't know what he was talking about, that his career, season and ceiling win record was a mirage that shouldn't be compared to his prior or subsequent head coach and that Melvin is the Saviour. I hope he is, I really hope he is. As Giants (the CardBoard poster) says, a manager should be worth 5-7 games. Since the Giants have added Soler, Lee, Ray, Murphy, Hicks -- and Snell, Chapman and Montgomery, among others, remain unsigned, and the Giants only have the 13th largest payroll and are $26.5 mms. under the luxury tax threshold, and they lost some serious (and highly-paid) underperformers like Manaea, Stripling, Haniger, Junis, Brebbia, Pederson and DeSclafani -- I have to assume that Melvin's Giants will improve from 79 wins to at least 89. One or two more FA's, and I would expect 95 wins.

Yep.  Since the Giants, as currently constructed, are a 70 win bunch under a generic manager, they should win an additional 5 under Melvin, giving them 75.  :)