[Mick]

1698338541[/url]']
Getting away from politics, and this is the last time I'll mention it, but...

I know I'm in the minority. I think Johnson fired the wrong guy. I think Kapler worked wonders with a minimum level of talent. He didn't get to work with 15 years of great draft picks culminating in Posey, Bumgarner, Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Romo, Crawford, Belt and Panik; and let's not forget great picks who were traded away like Zack Wheeler, Bryan Reynolds, Matt Duffy and Adam Duvall.

Separately, we haven't had great free agents like Pence, Burrell, Huff, Scutaro, Cabrera, Pagan, Torres, Ross, Morse, or great Latin players like Sandoval, other than Flores. Mostly, we've had disappointments.

We haven't had a great draft in the last 11 years. Logan Webb and Bailey, and that's about it. Bryan Reynolds, who we traded away. You can point at Sabean's later years, Bobby Evans, early Farhan...but the talent hasn't been here. And that's why Kapler was forced to platoon and use relievers as starters. Which led to 107 wins in 2021...and to be candid, if Posey plays in 2020 and Brian Bannister gets a COVID shot and is on site, the Giants are in the playoffs (they finished one game out). And remember...NONE of Kapler's years were as bad as Bochy's last three years. When the talent wasn't there. Which it still isn't.

We fired the wrong guy. And we hired Bochy-lite.

Just for the record…

Pence, Scutaro, Pagan and Cabrera were obtained via trade.   

Also, it is a bit early to dismiss the drafts from the last four years.  There are some darn good prospects working their way up to the big club.  Heck, I think SF did the best of any team in the majors in 2020.  

Lastly, no need to continue to debate this.  Everyone has clearly staked out their position. Time will tell whether Melvin can meet the challenge of leading SF back to the top.

Agreed. I already said above that this was the last time I'd mention it. And I don't care if they were acquired via trade or free agency. The point is that very good players were acquired. The 2010/2/4 teams had very good players. The 2023 version did not.

---

...internally, someone must know that the fan base is bleeding out.

The problem is the fans now believe the Giants can't produce any of their own (or have traded away the few they might have had after Posey and Bumgarner), and have no choice but to sign them as free agents. 

We do? I think the Giants have some great young talent they've developed. Add in a few overseas players and a good trade or two and they'll do well next year.

I don't disagree, but their rookie years were not scintillating overall, though I admit there were flashes of brilliance, and until he hit a wall (come to think of it, until a number of them hit the wall), Bailey was hitting very well. Maybe, instead of a collective Sophomore Slump they will have a Sophomore Bonanza.

[Mick]

1698338541[/url]']
Getting away from politics, and this is the last time I'll mention it, but...

I know I'm in the minority. I think Johnson fired the wrong guy. I think Kapler worked wonders with a minimum level of talent. He didn't get to work with 15 years of great draft picks culminating in Posey, Bumgarner, Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Romo, Crawford, Belt and Panik; and let's not forget great picks who were traded away like Zack Wheeler, Bryan Reynolds, Matt Duffy and Adam Duvall.

Separately, we haven't had great free agents like Pence, Burrell, Huff, Scutaro, Cabrera, Pagan, Torres, Ross, Morse, or great Latin players like Sandoval, other than Flores. Mostly, we've had disappointments.

We haven't had a great draft in the last 11 years. Logan Webb and Bailey, and that's about it. Bryan Reynolds, who we traded away. You can point at Sabean's later years, Bobby Evans, early Farhan...but the talent hasn't been here. And that's why Kapler was forced to platoon and use relievers as starters. Which led to 107 wins in 2021...and to be candid, if Posey plays in 2020 and Brian Bannister gets a COVID shot and is on site, the Giants are in the playoffs (they finished one game out). And remember...NONE of Kapler's years were as bad as Bochy's last three years. When the talent wasn't there. Which it still isn't.

We fired the wrong guy. And we hired Bochy-lite.

Just for the record…

Pence, Scutaro, Pagan and Cabrera were obtained via trade.   

Also, it is a bit early to dismiss the drafts from the last four years.  There are some darn good prospects working their way up to the big club.  Heck, I think SF did the best of any team in the majors in 2020.  

Lastly, no need to continue to debate this.  Everyone has clearly staked out their position. Time will tell whether Melvin can meet the challenge of leading SF back to the top.

Agreed. I already said above that this was the last time I'd mention it. And I don't care if they were acquired via trade or free agency. The point is that very good players were acquired. The 2010/2/4 teams had very good players. The 2023 version did not.

---

...internally, someone must know that the fan base is bleeding out.

The problem is the fans now believe the Giants can't produce any of their own (or have traded away the few they might have had after Posey and Bumgarner), and have no choice but to sign them as free agents. 

We do? I think the Giants have some great young talent they've developed. Add in a few overseas players and a good trade or two and they'll do well next year.

I don't disagree, but their rookie years were not scintillating overall, though I admit there were flashes of brilliance, and until he hit a wall (come to think of it, until a number of them hit the wall), Bailey was hitting very well. Maybe, instead of a collective Sophomore Slump they will have a Sophomore Bonanza.