10-12-2023, 04:17 PM
(10-12-2023, 03:51 PM)Hurlburt88 Wrote: interesting on the air defense systems I may becoming cynical . . . I feel like this war has already been "won", but the combatants don't realize it and haven't figured out how to stop fighting. It has been "won" by the US and NATO in a strategic sense, stopping Russia from encroaching more directly on NATO territory.I am quite sure Poland, Romania and Bulgaria don't see it that way. If Ukraine as a whole becomes part of Russia or a Russian puppet, they now have Russia along their borders in a very direct sense. (Kaliningrad is small enough to be isolated). IMO, if anything, the opposite is true. NATO now has to hope/ensure Ukraine "wins" and gets back almost all it's territory. If that doesn't happen, Russia can point to the fact that however costly it was, they "won" and anybody could be next. If NATO had just said "well, Ukraine isn't part of NATO, so we don't care" then just maybe NATO wouldn't be viewed as a loser if Russia occupies all of Ukraine. As it is, NATO is now tied to Ukrainian victory. It's that simple.
Not worth it to contribute whatever it takes to push Russia back to original borders. So now I hope and pray that a path can be found to a new peace. Ugly . . .
Looking forward to other views!
As far as some kind of a "peace" that leaves Russia basically where it is now, Ukraine simply can't accept that. They can't exist as a country under those conditions, and anyway Russia would just "finish the job" when they felt like it. They have to keep fighting until they simply can't any more. If Ukraine goes under, nobody on the eastern flank of NATO will feel safe.