08-13-2023, 05:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2023, 05:13 PM by jacket3ree.)
I found something earlier today that addresses many of the points brought up in this thread.
This professor emphasizes that only a tiny fraction of colleges and universities in the U.S. are remotely affected by this. The university where he has been for 30 years, Colorado, is one of them, and he specifically mentions Stanford:
What Football Conference Realignment Tells Us About U.S. Universities
"Writing at Persuasion recently, William Deresiewicz explained that most college students have experiences that are very different from those who attend schools like Harvard or Stanford. In fact, his argument holds more broadly for students that attend the Power 5 schools that host big-time football programs: Of the nation's 16 million undergraduates, 78% go to public institutions, 30% go to community colleges, 38% go part-time, and 38% are 22 or older. The vast majority of four-year schools take most of the people who apply to them; a quarter are open enrollment, which means they take everyone. If most of your friends went to selective colleges, congratulations, you're in the elite. You need to get out more."
The reason Stanford should play big-time football is to be Stanford, not Harvard of the West. The world doesn't need a Harvard of the West.
Reading further, for the Power 5 and maybe high end G5 schools, they have three somewhat related purposes:
1. In exchange for tuition and fees, providing an 'amenity-rich' experience that includes an opportunity for education that culminates in a credential.
2. Conducting world-class research.
3. Hosting a professional football program, which offers another amenity to the students, but stands on its own as a core university function. Universities sponsor other sports, but "nothing remotely compares to the importance of football."
Interesting read.
To me, Stanford's old model - that these three things are intertwined somehow - is kaput. They either need to get off the high horse and into the dirty game, NIL, Portal, and all; or get out. There is no shame in staying in. There is no shame in getting out. It is a choice to make. The fact that they are exploring the B1G and ACC suggests they aren't ready just yet to get out. We can argue whether a Pac-4/MWC/AAC merger is getting out, but that leaves a way to get back in, as does trying independence, which I maintain is merely stalling until there is something better. But, that too is staying in.
Of the three things listed above, Stanford's priority is far and away the second. being a world-class research institution. Their bread and butter, federally funded research has turned Stanford into a graduate-centric university. Can the first and third items coexist with this? Of course. The first item - let's call it No Fun Stanford - is a topic for another thread. The third item - Power 5 football - feels existential now. But is it? Of course not.
I looked for university rankings based on research and there are plenty. Stanford is generally rated highly. I looked for a list to which Stanford probably pays attention, for things like performance reviews. The NSF keeps a list of universities ranked by federally funded research and development.
An Important Table to Stanford
These are Stanford's "academic peers", not some list of prestige schools with high SAT scores that your mom and dad can brag about to their coworkers.
The top 30 research performers in all fields for 2019-2021, ranked by dollars, with Power 5 participants bolded:
Johns Hopkins
UCSF
Michigan
Penn
Washington
UCLA
UCSD
Wisconsin
Stanford
Harvard
Duke
Ohio State
North Carolina
Cornell
Yale
Texas A&M
Maryland
Pitt
Texas Anderson Cancer Center
Georgia Tech
Columbia
Minnesota
NYU
Vanderbilt
Washington, St. Louis
Penn State
Florida
USC
MIT
Northwestern
Sixty percent of the nation's research university behemoths play in Power 5 conferences. Only one of these is looking at relegation. Absent the Pac 8/10/12, Stanford clearly wants to associate with the B1G or ACC. However, 40 percent is not insignificant and there is no evidence that with or without Power 5 football, Stanford's gravy train is affected. It sure doesn't hurt to play P5 football though.
At this point Stanford's choice isn't so much what it wants to do with sports, its choice is how best to survive until they are in a better position to choose, even if they ultimately choose to get out of the game.
This professor emphasizes that only a tiny fraction of colleges and universities in the U.S. are remotely affected by this. The university where he has been for 30 years, Colorado, is one of them, and he specifically mentions Stanford:
What Football Conference Realignment Tells Us About U.S. Universities
"Writing at Persuasion recently, William Deresiewicz explained that most college students have experiences that are very different from those who attend schools like Harvard or Stanford. In fact, his argument holds more broadly for students that attend the Power 5 schools that host big-time football programs: Of the nation's 16 million undergraduates, 78% go to public institutions, 30% go to community colleges, 38% go part-time, and 38% are 22 or older. The vast majority of four-year schools take most of the people who apply to them; a quarter are open enrollment, which means they take everyone. If most of your friends went to selective colleges, congratulations, you're in the elite. You need to get out more."
The reason Stanford should play big-time football is to be Stanford, not Harvard of the West. The world doesn't need a Harvard of the West.
Reading further, for the Power 5 and maybe high end G5 schools, they have three somewhat related purposes:
1. In exchange for tuition and fees, providing an 'amenity-rich' experience that includes an opportunity for education that culminates in a credential.
2. Conducting world-class research.
3. Hosting a professional football program, which offers another amenity to the students, but stands on its own as a core university function. Universities sponsor other sports, but "nothing remotely compares to the importance of football."
Interesting read.
To me, Stanford's old model - that these three things are intertwined somehow - is kaput. They either need to get off the high horse and into the dirty game, NIL, Portal, and all; or get out. There is no shame in staying in. There is no shame in getting out. It is a choice to make. The fact that they are exploring the B1G and ACC suggests they aren't ready just yet to get out. We can argue whether a Pac-4/MWC/AAC merger is getting out, but that leaves a way to get back in, as does trying independence, which I maintain is merely stalling until there is something better. But, that too is staying in.
Of the three things listed above, Stanford's priority is far and away the second. being a world-class research institution. Their bread and butter, federally funded research has turned Stanford into a graduate-centric university. Can the first and third items coexist with this? Of course. The first item - let's call it No Fun Stanford - is a topic for another thread. The third item - Power 5 football - feels existential now. But is it? Of course not.
I looked for university rankings based on research and there are plenty. Stanford is generally rated highly. I looked for a list to which Stanford probably pays attention, for things like performance reviews. The NSF keeps a list of universities ranked by federally funded research and development.
An Important Table to Stanford
These are Stanford's "academic peers", not some list of prestige schools with high SAT scores that your mom and dad can brag about to their coworkers.
The top 30 research performers in all fields for 2019-2021, ranked by dollars, with Power 5 participants bolded:
Johns Hopkins
UCSF
Michigan
Penn
Washington
UCLA
UCSD
Wisconsin
Stanford
Harvard
Duke
Ohio State
North Carolina
Cornell
Yale
Texas A&M
Maryland
Pitt
Texas Anderson Cancer Center
Georgia Tech
Columbia
Minnesota
NYU
Vanderbilt
Washington, St. Louis
Penn State
Florida
USC
MIT
Northwestern
Sixty percent of the nation's research university behemoths play in Power 5 conferences. Only one of these is looking at relegation. Absent the Pac 8/10/12, Stanford clearly wants to associate with the B1G or ACC. However, 40 percent is not insignificant and there is no evidence that with or without Power 5 football, Stanford's gravy train is affected. It sure doesn't hurt to play P5 football though.
At this point Stanford's choice isn't so much what it wants to do with sports, its choice is how best to survive until they are in a better position to choose, even if they ultimately choose to get out of the game.