[Goose]

The idea that one can give a new tank to an armored unit and that unit can become proficient in it's use quickly, i.e. 90 days or less, is a fantasy. There is a war on in Ukraine, which means they do what they have to do, but while we deride Russia for sending troops into battle with no training, sending an armored formation into battle that has only had it's weapons for 90 days isn't a lot better.

Dunno about that, I think it is a lot better.

Not an expert but I'd much rather have a Ukrainian volunteer unit with modern western equipment that they only received brief training on, than a Russian prison unit with early Soviet stuff who undoubtedly received even less training.

And we should credit the numerous times in the past year Ukraine has rapidly deployed new equipment to good use with training that is a fraction of western peacetime standards.

Related-

https://twitter.com/auto_glam/status/161...JqAGUAAKDA

I think it comes down to what those to groups you mention are being asked to do.  Up to now, we haven't seen any rapid combined arms operations from Ukraine. The Ukrainians up to now have received indirect fire weapons like the M777 and the HIMARS. They have done well with them, but these type of weapons don't require really close rapid cooperation with each other to survive. Tanks do. It is like a football team in that if an audible is called you have to know what to do. You have to know your "blitz pickups" etc. If you don't, bad things can happen even if the other team isn't all that good. If you have sabot in the gun and somebody yells "dismounts" on the radio, what do you do? You have to decide RTFN and know how to do it quickly. That takes practice, and you can't do much of that in 90 days if you are just learning how to drive the tank. The tanks are also cooperating with their supporting IFVs and infantry. You have to know what they will do and react accordingly. Experience has also demonstrated you can put a very well trained tank force together with a very well trained infantry force and have disastrous results because they have not operated and trained TOGETHER.

There is a war on, and Ukraine sometimes has to "make do". However, the new tanks they will be receiving are a limited resource. If they are on the wrong end of a 73 easting, there aren't any more tanks. The Russians do have more convicts. A few "bad plays" and that can happen.

By the way, why is the fire extinguisher missing in the picture of the IFV ramp being operated :-)?

[Goose]

The idea that one can give a new tank to an armored unit and that unit can become proficient in it's use quickly, i.e. 90 days or less, is a fantasy. There is a war on in Ukraine, which means they do what they have to do, but while we deride Russia for sending troops into battle with no training, sending an armored formation into battle that has only had it's weapons for 90 days isn't a lot better.

Dunno about that, I think it is a lot better.

Not an expert but I'd much rather have a Ukrainian volunteer unit with modern western equipment that they only received brief training on, than a Russian prison unit with early Soviet stuff who undoubtedly received even less training.

And we should credit the numerous times in the past year Ukraine has rapidly deployed new equipment to good use with training that is a fraction of western peacetime standards.

Related-

https://twitter.com/auto_glam/status/161...JqAGUAAKDA

I think it comes down to what those to groups you mention are being asked to do.  Up to now, we haven't seen any rapid combined arms operations from Ukraine. The Ukrainians up to now have received indirect fire weapons like the M777 and the HIMARS. They have done well with them, but these type of weapons don't require really close rapid cooperation with each other to survive. Tanks do. It is like a football team in that if an audible is called you have to know what to do. You have to know your "blitz pickups" etc. If you don't, bad things can happen even if the other team isn't all that good. If you have sabot in the gun and somebody yells "dismounts" on the radio, what do you do? You have to decide RTFN and know how to do it quickly. That takes practice, and you can't do much of that in 90 days if you are just learning how to drive the tank. The tanks are also cooperating with their supporting IFVs and infantry. You have to know what they will do and react accordingly. Experience has also demonstrated you can put a very well trained tank force together with a very well trained infantry force and have disastrous results because they have not operated and trained TOGETHER.

There is a war on, and Ukraine sometimes has to "make do". However, the new tanks they will be receiving are a limited resource. If they are on the wrong end of a 73 easting, there aren't any more tanks. The Russians do have more convicts. A few "bad plays" and that can happen.

By the way, why is the fire extinguisher missing in the picture of the IFV ramp being operated :-)?