[Goose]

If it's a dissapointment to bring to mind Falaise, historical shorthand for a really bad place to be and a of immense proportions loss for the Germans that hastened their ultimate defeat, per Eisenhower "unquestionably one of the greatest killing fields of any of the war areas", then I hope to see many more such dissapointments.

Agree totally. That said, if the Falaise pocket had been closed effectively the German army would have been unable to reconstitute itself as rapidly as it did. Skeleton formations are much easier to rebuild than starting from scratch. The war could have ended much quicker with the Russian army much further east. Eisenhower never said that, but many of his associates did. Of course, the Lyman pocket was "only" a few thousand troops, best case, and wasn't going to end the war either way.

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I think we will know more over time, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Russians made it out, but it does sound like a lot of them were killed fleeing, both by artillery, and their own minefields, as they tried to avoid the road.

Lots of those mines were laid by Ukrainian artillery.

Ukrainian MOD is saying all Russians were either killed or captured, I highly doubt that is true, but we might now now for sure how many POW's were captured, unless there is a very large POW exchange.

Even if there will eventually be a big POW exchange, Ukraine will undoubtedly report on the number of POWs captured. They have to report that to the Red Cross anyway.

I've heard reports that Russia does not want to exchange POW's unless they are pilots or high ranking officers, this might just be propaganda, as Russia needs trained men more than anything else, besides good leadership.

Russia doesn't want the "rank and file" back because they know first hand that Russia doesn't care about it's troops and that you can survive surrender. It will "infect" the others. In addition, Russia being (justifiably) paranoid fears that Ukraine may have "turned" many of the POWs, who will sabotage equipment and spy for Ukraine. They may actually incite a rebellion. If exchanged, they are all going far,far away (if they are lucky).  

It's important to note, regardless of how many KIA or POW's the Russians suffered, the liberation of Lyman and other cities continues to prove that Ukraine has the initiative, and there's no reason to think that will stop.  I think Ukraine has proven that the Kharkiv offensive wasn't a fluke.

Maybe. The character of this offensive is different from Kharkiv. One thing we aren't going to get (very probably) is a report on Ukrainian casualties. They are undoubtedly heavier than the Kharkiv ones based on the reports of heavier resistance. It is a victory, and a big one. If Ukraine can keep advancing then we can be pretty sure they have at least adequate forces. If they have to regroup and stop to do so, that could indicate a big "butcher's bill". They have at least 10 more days with no serious rain. We shall see.

[Goose]

If it's a dissapointment to bring to mind Falaise, historical shorthand for a really bad place to be and a of immense proportions loss for the Germans that hastened their ultimate defeat, per Eisenhower "unquestionably one of the greatest killing fields of any of the war areas", then I hope to see many more such dissapointments.

Agree totally. That said, if the Falaise pocket had been closed effectively the German army would have been unable to reconstitute itself as rapidly as it did. Skeleton formations are much easier to rebuild than starting from scratch. The war could have ended much quicker with the Russian army much further east. Eisenhower never said that, but many of his associates did. Of course, the Lyman pocket was "only" a few thousand troops, best case, and wasn't going to end the war either way.

---

I think we will know more over time, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Russians made it out, but it does sound like a lot of them were killed fleeing, both by artillery, and their own minefields, as they tried to avoid the road.

Lots of those mines were laid by Ukrainian artillery.

Ukrainian MOD is saying all Russians were either killed or captured, I highly doubt that is true, but we might now now for sure how many POW's were captured, unless there is a very large POW exchange.

Even if there will eventually be a big POW exchange, Ukraine will undoubtedly report on the number of POWs captured. They have to report that to the Red Cross anyway.

I've heard reports that Russia does not want to exchange POW's unless they are pilots or high ranking officers, this might just be propaganda, as Russia needs trained men more than anything else, besides good leadership.

Russia doesn't want the "rank and file" back because they know first hand that Russia doesn't care about it's troops and that you can survive surrender. It will "infect" the others. In addition, Russia being (justifiably) paranoid fears that Ukraine may have "turned" many of the POWs, who will sabotage equipment and spy for Ukraine. They may actually incite a rebellion. If exchanged, they are all going far,far away (if they are lucky).  

It's important to note, regardless of how many KIA or POW's the Russians suffered, the liberation of Lyman and other cities continues to prove that Ukraine has the initiative, and there's no reason to think that will stop.  I think Ukraine has proven that the Kharkiv offensive wasn't a fluke.

Maybe. The character of this offensive is different from Kharkiv. One thing we aren't going to get (very probably) is a report on Ukrainian casualties. They are undoubtedly heavier than the Kharkiv ones based on the reports of heavier resistance. It is a victory, and a big one. If Ukraine can keep advancing then we can be pretty sure they have at least adequate forces. If they have to regroup and stop to do so, that could indicate a big "butcher's bill". They have at least 10 more days with no serious rain. We shall see.