[OutsiderFan]

This thread seems very focused on tactics and the prosecution of the war. Can I digress slightly and ask you all, who are more knowledgeable than me, what the real cause of this war was? How did we get here?

Offline, I'm in a debate with someone who is pro-Russia and they claim this whole thing traces back to Euromaidan and Victoria Nuland -- and generally the US meddling in Ukrainian politics to the point where Viktor Yanukovych abandoned the Presidency of Ukraine and fled to Russia. I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems to be the crux of it. I know Nuland was caught on tape talking about who she (or the US) would like to work with if the opposition took over from Yanukovych. Is there any evidence the US actually orchestrated any kind of coup? I don't believe so, but curious if I'm being naive or missed something.

Your friend has swallowed right wing propaganda planted by Russia and probably not just on the topic of Ukraine and Russia.  It is laughable - like roll on the floor style - that "all the way back to" stops with Victoria Nuland.  ANY credible destination for where "all the way back to" is in history, must include past efforts by Russia to control Ukraine.  They've been at odds with each other since the 1800s, maybe even before that.

Ukraine won its independence from Russia in 1991 after the Soviet Union dissolution. Putin and his advisors are motivated to put the former Soviet Union back together, and Ukraine is a significant territory to get back into the Russian fold. Anyone claiming Ukraine or the U.S. is at fault for the war is just a Russian tool.  Someone can make an argument they are in favor of Russia killing thousands of people and wrecking Ukraine to seize control of it, but don't buy this nonsense Russia is just defending itself or whatever other B.S. they spin. Victoria Nuland - LOL!!!

[OutsiderFan]

This thread seems very focused on tactics and the prosecution of the war. Can I digress slightly and ask you all, who are more knowledgeable than me, what the real cause of this war was? How did we get here?

Offline, I'm in a debate with someone who is pro-Russia and they claim this whole thing traces back to Euromaidan and Victoria Nuland -- and generally the US meddling in Ukrainian politics to the point where Viktor Yanukovych abandoned the Presidency of Ukraine and fled to Russia. I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems to be the crux of it. I know Nuland was caught on tape talking about who she (or the US) would like to work with if the opposition took over from Yanukovych. Is there any evidence the US actually orchestrated any kind of coup? I don't believe so, but curious if I'm being naive or missed something.

Your friend has swallowed right wing propaganda planted by Russia and probably not just on the topic of Ukraine and Russia.  It is laughable - like roll on the floor style - that "all the way back to" stops with Victoria Nuland.  ANY credible destination for where "all the way back to" is in history, must include past efforts by Russia to control Ukraine.  They've been at odds with each other since the 1800s, maybe even before that.

Ukraine won its independence from Russia in 1991 after the Soviet Union dissolution. Putin and his advisors are motivated to put the former Soviet Union back together, and Ukraine is a significant territory to get back into the Russian fold. Anyone claiming Ukraine or the U.S. is at fault for the war is just a Russian tool.  Someone can make an argument they are in favor of Russia killing thousands of people and wrecking Ukraine to seize control of it, but don't buy this nonsense Russia is just defending itself or whatever other B.S. they spin. Victoria Nuland - LOL!!!