[Goose]

The behavior of Russian sailors in the accidents that we do know about, like the K-19, is in general selfless and exemplary. Their country doesn't deserve them.

I assume you're differentiating between the behavior of the sailors vs that of the soldiers. The soldiers have behaved despicably. Rape, torture, murder, targeting of civilians, looting, etc. etc. etc.

Sailors are "different" for three reasons. First, sailors don't interact with civilians, enemy or friendly. Serving on a warship is 1% exhilaration, 1% sheer terror, 40% mind-numbing work, and 58% boredom. You sleep in the same relative discomfort in peace or war, eat the same food, and do the same tasks. In peacetime, the sea is always trying to kill you. In war, both the enemy and the sea are trying to kill you. It you concentrate too hard on one, the other will get you. And the sea never sleeps. How sailors would react to enemy civilians is anybody's guess, but the other two problems occupy 100% of their efforts. They may fire missiles at "targets" that are enemy cities, but 97% of the people on the ship have absolutely no idea who they are shooting at. They also don't even know where they are. They don't need to.

Second, sailors are generally "a better class of people". There are conscripts in the Navy, but not nearly as many. Enemy #1, the sea, ensures that many of the sailors are relatively highly trained professionals. There are many Minchman on Russian naval vessels. They train and lead the lower ranks. That doesn't happen in the Army. This situation is especially true on submarines, where the lowest NUB conscript mess cook can kill everybody on the boat if he empties the trash incorrectly. Training and NCO leadership are essential. On surface ships, it is less so, but still significant. The deck apes aren't as highly trained, but even they have battle stations, leaving port stations, etc. and jobs to do. As a result, the Navy tends to attract more professional individuals who are highly trained in specialized functions. You can't run a ship without them. Discipline is essential. If you are unable to do your job, the ship may be damaged and sink. No only you will die but others will die. Sailors know this, so the pressure to "pull your weight" is intense.

Third, sailors are clannish. You are on the same ship for months at a time with the rest of the crew. There is no place to hide. You have to help each other get through it because there is no place else to go. Even the Moskva, a large vessel, was 612 feet long. You can't escape anything. As a result, a strong sense of responsibility builds up around protecting your own. Even people you don't like become "us". You have to get along. It is a social contract. "Nobody can do that to our pledges. Only we can do that to our pledges".

As a result of this, the Russian navy has often displayed great courage and self-sacrifice to save the ship and to save shipmates. If only 54 guys got off the Moskva, I am sure it wasn't because people weren't trying. If one of her magazines exploded, it is surprising it was that many. Remember, when HMS Hood aft magazine blew up, there were 3 survivors out of 1,418. On the USS Arizona, which was sunk in a harbor, 334 survived out of 1,177. The Bismarck had a crew of 2,221 and 115 survived. That wasn't a magazine explosion however.

[Goose]

The behavior of Russian sailors in the accidents that we do know about, like the K-19, is in general selfless and exemplary. Their country doesn't deserve them.

I assume you're differentiating between the behavior of the sailors vs that of the soldiers. The soldiers have behaved despicably. Rape, torture, murder, targeting of civilians, looting, etc. etc. etc.

Sailors are "different" for three reasons. First, sailors don't interact with civilians, enemy or friendly. Serving on a warship is 1% exhilaration, 1% sheer terror, 40% mind-numbing work, and 58% boredom. You sleep in the same relative discomfort in peace or war, eat the same food, and do the same tasks. In peacetime, the sea is always trying to kill you. In war, both the enemy and the sea are trying to kill you. It you concentrate too hard on one, the other will get you. And the sea never sleeps. How sailors would react to enemy civilians is anybody's guess, but the other two problems occupy 100% of their efforts. They may fire missiles at "targets" that are enemy cities, but 97% of the people on the ship have absolutely no idea who they are shooting at. They also don't even know where they are. They don't need to.

Second, sailors are generally "a better class of people". There are conscripts in the Navy, but not nearly as many. Enemy #1, the sea, ensures that many of the sailors are relatively highly trained professionals. There are many Minchman on Russian naval vessels. They train and lead the lower ranks. That doesn't happen in the Army. This situation is especially true on submarines, where the lowest NUB conscript mess cook can kill everybody on the boat if he empties the trash incorrectly. Training and NCO leadership are essential. On surface ships, it is less so, but still significant. The deck apes aren't as highly trained, but even they have battle stations, leaving port stations, etc. and jobs to do. As a result, the Navy tends to attract more professional individuals who are highly trained in specialized functions. You can't run a ship without them. Discipline is essential. If you are unable to do your job, the ship may be damaged and sink. No only you will die but others will die. Sailors know this, so the pressure to "pull your weight" is intense.

Third, sailors are clannish. You are on the same ship for months at a time with the rest of the crew. There is no place to hide. You have to help each other get through it because there is no place else to go. Even the Moskva, a large vessel, was 612 feet long. You can't escape anything. As a result, a strong sense of responsibility builds up around protecting your own. Even people you don't like become "us". You have to get along. It is a social contract. "Nobody can do that to our pledges. Only we can do that to our pledges".

As a result of this, the Russian navy has often displayed great courage and self-sacrifice to save the ship and to save shipmates. If only 54 guys got off the Moskva, I am sure it wasn't because people weren't trying. If one of her magazines exploded, it is surprising it was that many. Remember, when HMS Hood aft magazine blew up, there were 3 survivors out of 1,418. On the USS Arizona, which was sunk in a harbor, 334 survived out of 1,177. The Bismarck had a crew of 2,221 and 115 survived. That wasn't a magazine explosion however.