[lex24]

But QBR is influenced (I'd say dictated) by ability to get throws off without being pressured/running for your life.  That was NOT Book.  Plus, I just don't think Tua has anything Book doesn't from a QB standpoint . . . other than he played behind a line that protected him a bit.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. You said Book was a "gamer" and that you expected NO to sweep its last two games. He played like a guy with physical limitations playing in his first NFL game. He indeed was under pressure; an important part of quarterbacking is throwing the ball away or checking down instead of taking a sack or throwing an interception. To say that there's no difference between him and Tua at this point in time is just wishful thinking. Book is the fourth choice quarterback on a 7-8 team, Tua is the starter on a team that has won its last seven games.

Hey, that's why I previously said "15 cents" about correct sports takes.

But your last sentence is the kind of superficial "analysis" that Shaw defenders use to prop up his coaching abilities.  Can you name the 7 teams Miami has beaten on this streak?  (Texans, Ravens, Jets, Panthers, Giants, Jets, Saints (down to fourth string QB).  Not exactly a Murderer's Row of the NFL.  They also averaged 22 points/game in those 7 wins - so Tua isn't exactly burning it up on the offensive side of the ball.  I don't think it's wishful thinking to believe that Book would fare just as well as Tua if he QBed the Dolphins.  Your belief to the contrary is equally "wishful thinking."  Regardless, we'll never know.

Impressive!  In one post you bring Shaw into a discussion that he bears no relationship to and double down on an argument that is and was fallacious from the get go.  Well done!

Thank you.  It's an art form.  Although bringing the Shaw argument in after DC's "but Tua has won 7 games in a row" was a lay-up of sorts - you can win in spite of people, not just "because of" people.  Shaw at sea level:  it's a tough reality for many to face these days.

And to answer DC's last question:  if Tua drafted when Book was, then yes (or stated differently, teams that draft a QB in R1 feel compelled to play him . . . usually sooner than later).  Look, there are some QBs that stand out from the rest.  We all know who they are.  Then there is the great mass of QBs whose success or failure depends on a variety of factors, most notably opportunity, coaching/scheme, and teammates' abilities.  Tua is no great shakes.  And is no greater shakes than Book or any number of other QBs in the "great mass."  That is the fundamental point.

Who said Tua is elite?  But I think if you did a poll of NFL GM’s you’d hear that Tua is significantly better than a fourth string QB.  Sean Peyton is as good a coach as there is besides Belichek.  His QB situation has been a mess since Winston went down.  Yet Book was never in the equation until everyone was hurt or out due to Covid.  

The “great mass” you refer to is actually quite small.  In most instances, there is a big difference between starting QB’s and back ups. So that great mass is between about 10-25 on the QB list.  Jimmy G is in that mass.  (And his former backups - Beathard and Mullen are not).  So is Tua.  Ian Book is not.  Maybe he will be someday.  Maybe not.

Book was a 4th round pick coming after being a 5th year senior. Not particularly highly regarded. Bottom line is if you aren’t a first or second round pick, the odds are stacked against you being a starting QB. Taking starting QB’s on day 1 in ‘21, there are 4 that were not drafted in the first or second round - Cousins (4). Wilson (3). Prescott (4). And a sixth round pick named Brady….

BTW- dont you find it delightful that ND QB’s have gone 0-24 since 2012?  I do.

[lex24]

But QBR is influenced (I'd say dictated) by ability to get throws off without being pressured/running for your life.  That was NOT Book.  Plus, I just don't think Tua has anything Book doesn't from a QB standpoint . . . other than he played behind a line that protected him a bit.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. You said Book was a "gamer" and that you expected NO to sweep its last two games. He played like a guy with physical limitations playing in his first NFL game. He indeed was under pressure; an important part of quarterbacking is throwing the ball away or checking down instead of taking a sack or throwing an interception. To say that there's no difference between him and Tua at this point in time is just wishful thinking. Book is the fourth choice quarterback on a 7-8 team, Tua is the starter on a team that has won its last seven games.

Hey, that's why I previously said "15 cents" about correct sports takes.

But your last sentence is the kind of superficial "analysis" that Shaw defenders use to prop up his coaching abilities.  Can you name the 7 teams Miami has beaten on this streak?  (Texans, Ravens, Jets, Panthers, Giants, Jets, Saints (down to fourth string QB).  Not exactly a Murderer's Row of the NFL.  They also averaged 22 points/game in those 7 wins - so Tua isn't exactly burning it up on the offensive side of the ball.  I don't think it's wishful thinking to believe that Book would fare just as well as Tua if he QBed the Dolphins.  Your belief to the contrary is equally "wishful thinking."  Regardless, we'll never know.

Impressive!  In one post you bring Shaw into a discussion that he bears no relationship to and double down on an argument that is and was fallacious from the get go.  Well done!

Thank you.  It's an art form.  Although bringing the Shaw argument in after DC's "but Tua has won 7 games in a row" was a lay-up of sorts - you can win in spite of people, not just "because of" people.  Shaw at sea level:  it's a tough reality for many to face these days.

And to answer DC's last question:  if Tua drafted when Book was, then yes (or stated differently, teams that draft a QB in R1 feel compelled to play him . . . usually sooner than later).  Look, there are some QBs that stand out from the rest.  We all know who they are.  Then there is the great mass of QBs whose success or failure depends on a variety of factors, most notably opportunity, coaching/scheme, and teammates' abilities.  Tua is no great shakes.  And is no greater shakes than Book or any number of other QBs in the "great mass."  That is the fundamental point.

Who said Tua is elite?  But I think if you did a poll of NFL GM’s you’d hear that Tua is significantly better than a fourth string QB.  Sean Peyton is as good a coach as there is besides Belichek.  His QB situation has been a mess since Winston went down.  Yet Book was never in the equation until everyone was hurt or out due to Covid.  

The “great mass” you refer to is actually quite small.  In most instances, there is a big difference between starting QB’s and back ups. So that great mass is between about 10-25 on the QB list.  Jimmy G is in that mass.  (And his former backups - Beathard and Mullen are not).  So is Tua.  Ian Book is not.  Maybe he will be someday.  Maybe not.

Book was a 4th round pick coming after being a 5th year senior. Not particularly highly regarded. Bottom line is if you aren’t a first or second round pick, the odds are stacked against you being a starting QB. Taking starting QB’s on day 1 in ‘21, there are 4 that were not drafted in the first or second round - Cousins (4). Wilson (3). Prescott (4). And a sixth round pick named Brady….

BTW- dont you find it delightful that ND QB’s have gone 0-24 since 2012?  I do.