[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103379#msg103379 date=1414211722]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103338#msg103338 date=1414187341]
You can get a Holstein to grade if you feed him long enough.

Marty, you can fatten that Holstein til the cows come home, if you will excuse the expression, but all you're going to get is stew meat and fatty ground beef.  Ain't gonna marble, son, unless you somehow get Monsanto involved.
[/quote]

Not true.  Although I was on the National Championship FFA Livestock Judging Team, placed #2 in Nation overall (including a 1st place in beef and 1st place in reasons), I will defer to the expertise of CI.  Unlike me, he makes his living in the beef industry.
[/quote]

Marty, when you, CI or anyone else produces well marbled prime steaks from a Guernsey, let me know and I will apologize and stand corrected.  Until then your stance has no basis in science, genetics or common sense.  I applaude your cattle raising ability but I will lay long odds the beef you exhibited wasn't a Guernsey.  Why not?

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103379#msg103379 date=1414211722]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103338#msg103338 date=1414187341]
You can get a Holstein to grade if you feed him long enough.

Marty, you can fatten that Holstein til the cows come home, if you will excuse the expression, but all you're going to get is stew meat and fatty ground beef.  Ain't gonna marble, son, unless you somehow get Monsanto involved.
[/quote]

Not true.  Although I was on the National Championship FFA Livestock Judging Team, placed #2 in Nation overall (including a 1st place in beef and 1st place in reasons), I will defer to the expertise of CI.  Unlike me, he makes his living in the beef industry.
[/quote]

Marty, when you, CI or anyone else produces well marbled prime steaks from a Guernsey, let me know and I will apologize and stand corrected.  Until then your stance has no basis in science, genetics or common sense.  I applaude your cattle raising ability but I will lay long odds the beef you exhibited wasn't a Guernsey.  Why not?

[BostonCard]

First place in "reasons"?

BC

[BostonCard]

First place in "reasons"?

BC

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103379#msg103379 date=1414211722]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103338#msg103338 date=1414187341]
You can get a Holstein to grade if you feed him long enough.

Marty, you can fatten that Holstein til the cows come home, if you will excuse the expression, but all you're going to get is stew meat and fatty ground beef.  Ain't gonna marble, son, unless you somehow get Monsanto involved.
[/quote]

Not true.  Although I was on the National Championship FFA Livestock Judging Team, placed #2 in Nation overall (including a 1st place in beef and 1st place in reasons), I will defer to the expertise of CI.  Unlike me, he makes his living in the beef industry.
[/quote]

This is actually pretty funny.  I have never been within 20 feet of a cow, steer, buffalo or any other bovine.  I do cook and eat, and greatly enjoy both.  So me telling you why you never had a guernsey in your beef herd is hysterical. :)

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103379#msg103379 date=1414211722]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103338#msg103338 date=1414187341]
You can get a Holstein to grade if you feed him long enough.

Marty, you can fatten that Holstein til the cows come home, if you will excuse the expression, but all you're going to get is stew meat and fatty ground beef.  Ain't gonna marble, son, unless you somehow get Monsanto involved.
[/quote]

Not true.  Although I was on the National Championship FFA Livestock Judging Team, placed #2 in Nation overall (including a 1st place in beef and 1st place in reasons), I will defer to the expertise of CI.  Unlike me, he makes his living in the beef industry.
[/quote]

This is actually pretty funny.  I have never been within 20 feet of a cow, steer, buffalo or any other bovine.  I do cook and eat, and greatly enjoy both.  So me telling you why you never had a guernsey in your beef herd is hysterical. :)

[martyup]

First place in "reasons"?

BC

Yes.  After judging classes, you are asked to present to a judge oral reasons for your class placings.  The is a 3 minute time limit IIRC.  You are scored from 0 to 50 on your oral reasons.

I was a freshman at Stanford in November of 1979 when our team traveled to Kansas City for the National Championships.  I had to miss a week of school.  ???  I remember that our team's theme song was an Eagles radio hit at the time -- "Heartache Tonight."  That song was for our competition.  We we returned home after winning the Championship, we drove straight from the airport to a parade in our honor in our hometown of Solvang, CA.  It was kind of a big deal in my small town.  When I got back to Stanford, nobody even knew I had gone.  :-\

[martyup]

First place in "reasons"?

BC

Yes.  After judging classes, you are asked to present to a judge oral reasons for your class placings.  The is a 3 minute time limit IIRC.  You are scored from 0 to 50 on your oral reasons.

I was a freshman at Stanford in November of 1979 when our team traveled to Kansas City for the National Championships.  I had to miss a week of school.  ???  I remember that our team's theme song was an Eagles radio hit at the time -- "Heartache Tonight."  That song was for our competition.  We we returned home after winning the Championship, we drove straight from the airport to a parade in our honor in our hometown of Solvang, CA.  It was kind of a big deal in my small town.  When I got back to Stanford, nobody even knew I had gone.  :-\

[martyup]

Why not?

Because it costs too much to feed dairy breeds to grade.  However, you can do it and they can taste lovely.

[martyup]

Why not?

Because it costs too much to feed dairy breeds to grade.  However, you can do it and they can taste lovely.

[Bruce Wang]

When a topic drifts to food, you know I have to chime in.  I've learned a terrific way to prepare steak.  Marinate a steak (any cut) sealed in a vacuum bag with Vietnamese fish sauce for 3 days.  This makes the steak taste dry aged at much less expense.  Get an immersion water circulator aka a sous vide.  Cook the steak in a water bath per guidelines (e.g. rib eye is 133 degrees for 4 hours).  You can cook it right away or store in the fridge for a few more days.  Just sear it on the hottest pan or grill you can heat up just for a few minutes on each side.  This process has the following advantages:

1.  Dummy proof.
2.  Make the toughest cuts extremely tender.
3.  Time shift cooking to more convenient times. I do the water bath cooking after we get Publiette to bed. 
4.  Prolong the time between the grocery store and cooking before spoilage. This is not an advantage for CowboyIndian.
5.  Make lots of steaks for a large number of guests very quickly and cheaply.

If you wonder how expensive restaurants make such tender meat, this is how. A sous vide setup used to cost $1000+  If you already have a large stockpot and a vacuum sealer, the cost of replicating this equipment is now only $150-200 for the water circulator.

[Bruce Wang]

When a topic drifts to food, you know I have to chime in.  I've learned a terrific way to prepare steak.  Marinate a steak (any cut) sealed in a vacuum bag with Vietnamese fish sauce for 3 days.  This makes the steak taste dry aged at much less expense.  Get an immersion water circulator aka a sous vide.  Cook the steak in a water bath per guidelines (e.g. rib eye is 133 degrees for 4 hours).  You can cook it right away or store in the fridge for a few more days.  Just sear it on the hottest pan or grill you can heat up just for a few minutes on each side.  This process has the following advantages:

1.  Dummy proof.
2.  Make the toughest cuts extremely tender.
3.  Time shift cooking to more convenient times. I do the water bath cooking after we get Publiette to bed. 
4.  Prolong the time between the grocery store and cooking before spoilage. This is not an advantage for CowboyIndian.
5.  Make lots of steaks for a large number of guests very quickly and cheaply.

If you wonder how expensive restaurants make such tender meat, this is how. A sous vide setup used to cost $1000+  If you already have a large stockpot and a vacuum sealer, the cost of replicating this equipment is now only $150-200 for the water circulator.

[Leftcoast]

Can't believe there are other FFA kids on this thread. 

While in FFA I showed at the Jr Grand Nationals at The SF Cow Palace so I know how the place got its name.  We also did meat judging (marbling is the key) and Parli Pro.  Never made it to nationals in any of these although the year before me did in the last.  My uncle had ranches in California and Oregon and I spent most summers and plenty of weekends working at his place along with taking care of the school owned farm.  (Our high school had a pretty big spread and also ran a meat processing ROP class with high speed band saws and so on that I am sure the insurance fees have killed by now.)

While I can believe you might be able to get a Holstein to grade out genetics are working against you and I'm not sure why you would try!?!

[Leftcoast]

Can't believe there are other FFA kids on this thread. 

While in FFA I showed at the Jr Grand Nationals at The SF Cow Palace so I know how the place got its name.  We also did meat judging (marbling is the key) and Parli Pro.  Never made it to nationals in any of these although the year before me did in the last.  My uncle had ranches in California and Oregon and I spent most summers and plenty of weekends working at his place along with taking care of the school owned farm.  (Our high school had a pretty big spread and also ran a meat processing ROP class with high speed band saws and so on that I am sure the insurance fees have killed by now.)

While I can believe you might be able to get a Holstein to grade out genetics are working against you and I'm not sure why you would try!?!

[Bruce Wang]

Is this the secret extra-curricular activity that gets you into Stanford?!?!?  And here I was wasting time on the debate team.  This sounds much more fun and delicious.

[Bruce Wang]

Is this the secret extra-curricular activity that gets you into Stanford?!?!?  And here I was wasting time on the debate team.  This sounds much more fun and delicious.

[martyup]

Can't believe there are other FFA kids on this thread. 

While in FFA I showed at the Jr Grand Nationals at The SF Cow Palace so I know how the place got its name.  We also did meat judging (marbling is the key) and Parli Pro.  Never made it to nationals in any of these although the year before me did in the last.  My uncle had ranches in California and Oregon and I spent most summers and plenty of weekends working at his place along with taking care of the school owned farm.  (Our high school had a pretty big spread and also ran a meat processing ROP class with high speed band saws and so on that I am sure the insurance fees have killed by now.)

While I can believe you might be able to get a Holstein to grade out genetics are working against you and I'm not sure why you would try!?!

That's funny.  Small world.  I also competed in Parli Pro.  In my junior year, we won the State Championship.  Three of the team members got accepted into Stanford. 

[martyup]

Can't believe there are other FFA kids on this thread. 

While in FFA I showed at the Jr Grand Nationals at The SF Cow Palace so I know how the place got its name.  We also did meat judging (marbling is the key) and Parli Pro.  Never made it to nationals in any of these although the year before me did in the last.  My uncle had ranches in California and Oregon and I spent most summers and plenty of weekends working at his place along with taking care of the school owned farm.  (Our high school had a pretty big spread and also ran a meat processing ROP class with high speed band saws and so on that I am sure the insurance fees have killed by now.)

While I can believe you might be able to get a Holstein to grade out genetics are working against you and I'm not sure why you would try!?!

That's funny.  Small world.  I also competed in Parli Pro.  In my junior year, we won the State Championship.  Three of the team members got accepted into Stanford. 

[martyup]

Is this the secret extra-curricular activity that gets you into Stanford?!?!?  And here I was wasting time on the debate team.  This sounds much more fun and delicious.

Maybe it was the FFA connection.  ;)  I did speak to Dean H during frosh orientation and he shared with me that he had once tried bareback bronc riding.

[martyup]

Is this the secret extra-curricular activity that gets you into Stanford?!?!?  And here I was wasting time on the debate team.  This sounds much more fun and delicious.

Maybe it was the FFA connection.  ;)  I did speak to Dean H during frosh orientation and he shared with me that he had once tried bareback bronc riding.

[martyup]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103582#msg103582 date=1414369347]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103577#msg103577 date=1414368528]
Why not?

Because it costs too much to feed dairy breeds to grade.  However, you can do it and they can taste lovely.
[/quote]

How do you know?  Ever eaten one?
[/quote]

Absolutely.  In fact, I've eaten a Scottish Highlander steer.  :P  We raised and ate our own beef throughout my youth.  Our best friends owed a dairy and they fed and ate many Holstein steers.  They also made their own corn cilage to feed those steers.  Believe me, that beef was juicy and tasty.

P.S. My guess is that the person who negged me on this post is either Scottish or vegan, or both.

[martyup]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103582#msg103582 date=1414369347]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103577#msg103577 date=1414368528]
Why not?

Because it costs too much to feed dairy breeds to grade.  However, you can do it and they can taste lovely.
[/quote]

How do you know?  Ever eaten one?
[/quote]

Absolutely.  In fact, I've eaten a Scottish Highlander steer.  :P  We raised and ate our own beef throughout my youth.  Our best friends owed a dairy and they fed and ate many Holstein steers.  They also made their own corn cilage to feed those steers.  Believe me, that beef was juicy and tasty.

P.S. My guess is that the person who negged me on this post is either Scottish or vegan, or both.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103583#msg103583 date=1414369416]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103582#msg103582 date=1414369347]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103577#msg103577 date=1414368528]
Why not?

Because it costs too much to feed dairy breeds to grade.  However, you can do it and they can taste lovely.
[/quote]

How do you know?  Ever eaten one?
[/quote]

Absolutely.  In fact, I've eaten a Scottish Highlander steer.  :P  We raised and ate our own beef throughout my youth.  Our best friends owed a dairy and they feed and ate many Holstein steers.  They also made their own corn cilage to feed those steers.  Believe me, that beef was juicy and tasty.
[/quote]

We were talking about cows bred for milk production, specifically Guernseys, si I guess your answer is no.  I have enjoyed lots of various animals, hand raised, free range, and feral, that were delicious, especially when prepared in their native homeland by local families who don't use written recipes, just what has been passed down.  Never cattle, though.  Whether earthen baked pigs or spotted lambs, however, invariably the animal is cooked slowly and well seasoned.  Very few cultures eat rare seared meat because, well, it's shoe leather.  From what I have read (which may have no relation to truth) Cowboys on the trail, heading to Abilene, gathered around the cook wagon for Hughes hunks of meat cooked until done, done, done.  Their short lifespans ensured their teeth would last for life.  Sauce was usually long simmered dry beans.  The revered English Sunday joint was not our prime rib.  Cooked to death, made palatable by pudding cooked in the rendered fat.  Anything to fuel the hard working farmers.  Sure, once in awhile a particularly succulent piece showed up, and if you were lucky the cook recognized it before creating it, but usually not.  Only American-style affluence has allowed the breeding that produces the marbled prime steaks that we enjoy cooked medium rare.  Italy's Bistecca Fiorentina is relatively recent, post WW11.  even in France American style rib-eyes are very rare.  Virtually no one eats beef steaks the way we do and that is because we are affluent enough to demand it and ranchers have developed breed with the genetic potential to produce it. 

I am not questioning your experience.  Sure, a Scottish highland steer properly cooked by a farm family in Scotland is going to be fantastic.  So is whatever is on the rancher's table.  But that doesn't dispute my point.  Breeding has a significant impact on the potential to produce well-marbled prime steaks. 

It's even easier to see in pork.  For a family dinner a few years ago I planned a bone in pork loin roast.  One of my brothers offered to contribute to the cost (younger brother always makes this offer) so I told him what the Berkshire roast had cost.  He told me that was ridiculous.  So I bought another roast at the supermarket and prepared both.  Served him a cut from each and asked if he could tell which one cost more.  One, he said, was great the other was the best pork he had ever eaten in his life.  Same cook, same preparation, same oven.  Difference?  Breeding.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103583#msg103583 date=1414369416]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=10967.msg103582#msg103582 date=1414369347]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103577#msg103577 date=1414368528]
Why not?

Because it costs too much to feed dairy breeds to grade.  However, you can do it and they can taste lovely.
[/quote]

How do you know?  Ever eaten one?
[/quote]

Absolutely.  In fact, I've eaten a Scottish Highlander steer.  :P  We raised and ate our own beef throughout my youth.  Our best friends owed a dairy and they feed and ate many Holstein steers.  They also made their own corn cilage to feed those steers.  Believe me, that beef was juicy and tasty.
[/quote]

We were talking about cows bred for milk production, specifically Guernseys, si I guess your answer is no.  I have enjoyed lots of various animals, hand raised, free range, and feral, that were delicious, especially when prepared in their native homeland by local families who don't use written recipes, just what has been passed down.  Never cattle, though.  Whether earthen baked pigs or spotted lambs, however, invariably the animal is cooked slowly and well seasoned.  Very few cultures eat rare seared meat because, well, it's shoe leather.  From what I have read (which may have no relation to truth) Cowboys on the trail, heading to Abilene, gathered around the cook wagon for Hughes hunks of meat cooked until done, done, done.  Their short lifespans ensured their teeth would last for life.  Sauce was usually long simmered dry beans.  The revered English Sunday joint was not our prime rib.  Cooked to death, made palatable by pudding cooked in the rendered fat.  Anything to fuel the hard working farmers.  Sure, once in awhile a particularly succulent piece showed up, and if you were lucky the cook recognized it before creating it, but usually not.  Only American-style affluence has allowed the breeding that produces the marbled prime steaks that we enjoy cooked medium rare.  Italy's Bistecca Fiorentina is relatively recent, post WW11.  even in France American style rib-eyes are very rare.  Virtually no one eats beef steaks the way we do and that is because we are affluent enough to demand it and ranchers have developed breed with the genetic potential to produce it. 

I am not questioning your experience.  Sure, a Scottish highland steer properly cooked by a farm family in Scotland is going to be fantastic.  So is whatever is on the rancher's table.  But that doesn't dispute my point.  Breeding has a significant impact on the potential to produce well-marbled prime steaks. 

It's even easier to see in pork.  For a family dinner a few years ago I planned a bone in pork loin roast.  One of my brothers offered to contribute to the cost (younger brother always makes this offer) so I told him what the Berkshire roast had cost.  He told me that was ridiculous.  So I bought another roast at the supermarket and prepared both.  Served him a cut from each and asked if he could tell which one cost more.  One, he said, was great the other was the best pork he had ever eaten in his life.  Same cook, same preparation, same oven.  Difference?  Breeding.

[Stymie]

My father was a professional chef, who owned and operated a successful restaurant in NYC the last 15 years of his working life.  Vis a vis his favorite cut (Porterhouse) the rules were:

1.  Ingratiate yourself with the best butcher you can find
2.  Have him cut the thickest slab you can afford, from the best carcass he has in his shop on the day
3.  Prepare and cook your meat as simply as possible, i.e....
  a.  lightly season and bring to room temperature
  b.  incinerate on both sides (he used to do this over a roaring fire in our living room, using a 360 degree grill he built in his work shop)
  c.  once all sides were sufficiently blackened, remove the beef to a pan in a pre-heated low and very slow oven for 20-30 minutes(~130F) to let the juices flow
  d.  Prepare and drink a large dry martini with the guests
  e.  Remove the beef from the oven, slice and eat the meat, tenderloin or strip or both, as per your preference

It worked for him and it works for me.

PS--vegetables were allowed, but not encouraged and only as garnishes

[Stymie]

My father was a professional chef, who owned and operated a successful restaurant in NYC the last 15 years of his working life.  Vis a vis his favorite cut (Porterhouse) the rules were:

1.  Ingratiate yourself with the best butcher you can find
2.  Have him cut the thickest slab you can afford, from the best carcass he has in his shop on the day
3.  Prepare and cook your meat as simply as possible, i.e....
  a.  lightly season and bring to room temperature
  b.  incinerate on both sides (he used to do this over a roaring fire in our living room, using a 360 degree grill he built in his work shop)
  c.  once all sides were sufficiently blackened, remove the beef to a pan in a pre-heated low and very slow oven for 20-30 minutes(~130F) to let the juices flow
  d.  Prepare and drink a large dry martini with the guests
  e.  Remove the beef from the oven, slice and eat the meat, tenderloin or strip or both, as per your preference

It worked for him and it works for me.

PS--vegetables were allowed, but not encouraged and only as garnishes

[martyup]

Only American-style affluence has allowed the breeding that produces the marbled prime steaks that we enjoy cooked medium rare.  Virtually no one eats beef steaks the way we do and that is because we are affluent enough to demand it and ranchers have developed breed with the genetic potential to produce it. 

I could talk on this subject until the cows come home.  ;)  Not to beat a dead horse, but the best breeds for beef production were developed in the British Isles and were brought to the United States in the late 1700s through the late 1800s. Angus (Black and Red), Hereford (Horned and Polled), and Shorthorn are the primary British breeds.  Feeding a steer to prime requires a lot of grain.  Grain costs money.  America has always had a good supply of relatively low cost grain.  Therefore, per capita consumption of high grade beef in America has outpaced other countries. 

[martyup]

Only American-style affluence has allowed the breeding that produces the marbled prime steaks that we enjoy cooked medium rare.  Virtually no one eats beef steaks the way we do and that is because we are affluent enough to demand it and ranchers have developed breed with the genetic potential to produce it. 

I could talk on this subject until the cows come home.  ;)  Not to beat a dead horse, but the best breeds for beef production were developed in the British Isles and were brought to the United States in the late 1700s through the late 1800s. Angus (Black and Red), Hereford (Horned and Polled), and Shorthorn are the primary British breeds.  Feeding a steer to prime requires a lot of grain.  Grain costs money.  America has always had a good supply of relatively low cost grain.  Therefore, per capita consumption of high grade beef in America has outpaced other countries. 

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103596#msg103596 date=1414376459]
Only American-style affluence has allowed the breeding that produces the marbled prime steaks that we enjoy cooked medium rare.  Virtually no one eats beef steaks the way we do and that is because we are affluent enough to demand it and ranchers have developed breed with the genetic potential to produce it. 

I could talk on this subject until the cows come home.  ;)  Not to beat a dead horse, but the best breeds for beef production were developed in the British Isles and were brought to the United States in the late 1700s through the late 1800s. Angus (Black and Red), Hereford (Horned and Polled), and Shorthorn are the primary British breeds.  Feeding a steer to prime requires a lot of grain.  Grain costs money.  America has always had a good supply of relatively low cost grain.  Therefore, per capita consumption of high grade beef in America has outpaced other countries.
[/quote]

We agree :)

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10967.msg103596#msg103596 date=1414376459]
Only American-style affluence has allowed the breeding that produces the marbled prime steaks that we enjoy cooked medium rare.  Virtually no one eats beef steaks the way we do and that is because we are affluent enough to demand it and ranchers have developed breed with the genetic potential to produce it. 

I could talk on this subject until the cows come home.  ;)  Not to beat a dead horse, but the best breeds for beef production were developed in the British Isles and were brought to the United States in the late 1700s through the late 1800s. Angus (Black and Red), Hereford (Horned and Polled), and Shorthorn are the primary British breeds.  Feeding a steer to prime requires a lot of grain.  Grain costs money.  America has always had a good supply of relatively low cost grain.  Therefore, per capita consumption of high grade beef in America has outpaced other countries.
[/quote]

We agree :)

[GoodGrief]

When a topic drifts to food, you know I have to chime in.  I've learned a terrific way to prepare steak.  Marinate a steak (any cut) sealed in a vacuum bag with Vietnamese fish sauce for 3 days.  This makes the steak taste dry aged at much less expense.  Get an immersion water circulator aka a sous vide.  Cook the steak in a water bath per guidelines (e.g. rib eye is 133 degrees for 4 hours).  You can cook it right away or store in the fridge for a few more days.  Just sear it on the hottest pan or grill you can heat up just for a few minutes on each side.  This process has the following advantages:

1.  Dummy proof.
2.  Make the toughest cuts extremely tender.
3.  Time shift cooking to more convenient times. I do the water bath cooking after we get Publiette to bed. 
4.  Prolong the time between the grocery store and cooking before spoilage. This is not an advantage for CowboyIndian.
5.  Make lots of steaks for a large number of guests very quickly and cheaply.

If you wonder how expensive restaurants make such tender meat, this is how. A sous vide setup used to cost $1000+  If you already have a large stockpot and a vacuum sealer, the cost of replicating this equipment is now only $150-200 for the water circulator.

Okay Publius, I'm intrigued. How do I adapt this receipe for a Lazy?
1. Does the marinade simulate a dry-aged steak both in tenderness and in flavor?
2. Are you saying you cook it in a water bath first and then fry it in a pan? Do I need to do both? I'm really too lazy to cook something using two methods, so can I just use a slow-cooker? (too cheap to buy an anova). Or can I just fry it in a pan? (and if I do the pan method, do I need to wipe off or rinse away the marinade, or just grill it directly?

Thanks from a lazy cooker. Mrs. GoodGrief gets annoyed with me because I sometimes just microwave plain vegetables with tofu and a little soy sauce for a meal because my reasoning is that nutritious things like vegetables and tofu aren't meant to taste good anyway.

[GoodGrief]

When a topic drifts to food, you know I have to chime in.  I've learned a terrific way to prepare steak.  Marinate a steak (any cut) sealed in a vacuum bag with Vietnamese fish sauce for 3 days.  This makes the steak taste dry aged at much less expense.  Get an immersion water circulator aka a sous vide.  Cook the steak in a water bath per guidelines (e.g. rib eye is 133 degrees for 4 hours).  You can cook it right away or store in the fridge for a few more days.  Just sear it on the hottest pan or grill you can heat up just for a few minutes on each side.  This process has the following advantages:

1.  Dummy proof.
2.  Make the toughest cuts extremely tender.
3.  Time shift cooking to more convenient times. I do the water bath cooking after we get Publiette to bed. 
4.  Prolong the time between the grocery store and cooking before spoilage. This is not an advantage for CowboyIndian.
5.  Make lots of steaks for a large number of guests very quickly and cheaply.

If you wonder how expensive restaurants make such tender meat, this is how. A sous vide setup used to cost $1000+  If you already have a large stockpot and a vacuum sealer, the cost of replicating this equipment is now only $150-200 for the water circulator.

Okay Publius, I'm intrigued. How do I adapt this receipe for a Lazy?
1. Does the marinade simulate a dry-aged steak both in tenderness and in flavor?
2. Are you saying you cook it in a water bath first and then fry it in a pan? Do I need to do both? I'm really too lazy to cook something using two methods, so can I just use a slow-cooker? (too cheap to buy an anova). Or can I just fry it in a pan? (and if I do the pan method, do I need to wipe off or rinse away the marinade, or just grill it directly?

Thanks from a lazy cooker. Mrs. GoodGrief gets annoyed with me because I sometimes just microwave plain vegetables with tofu and a little soy sauce for a meal because my reasoning is that nutritious things like vegetables and tofu aren't meant to taste good anyway.

[Kathy]

... the best breeds for beef production were developed in the British Isles and were brought to the United States in the late 1700s through the late 1800s. Angus (Black ...

Absolutely!

[Kathy]

... the best breeds for beef production were developed in the British Isles and were brought to the United States in the late 1700s through the late 1800s. Angus (Black ...

Absolutely!

[Bruce Wang]

Okay Publius, I'm intrigued. How do I adapt this receipe for a Lazy?
1. Does the marinade simulate a dry-aged steak both in tenderness and in flavor?
2. Are you saying you cook it in a water bath first and then fry it in a pan? Do I need to do both? I'm really too lazy to cook something using two methods, so can I just use a slow-cooker? (too cheap to buy an anova). Or can I just fry it in a pan? (and if I do the pan method, do I need to wipe off or rinse away the marinade, or just grill it directly?

Thanks from a lazy cooker. Mrs. GoodGrief gets annoyed with me because I sometimes just microwave plain vegetables with tofu and a little soy sauce for a meal because my reasoning is that nutritious things like vegetables and tofu aren't meant to taste good anyway.

This process is perfect for the lazy in terms of human effort.  The fish sauce, the water bath, and time do the work. It does require some minor prep work so you have to think a few days ahead of time. 

The fish sauce simulates the flavor of dry aged.  The water bath makes any piece of beef tender.  You still need the frying pan or grill to produce the sear/crispy crust. 

You could skip the water bath and get the flavor of dry age from the fish sauce.  Or you could use a beer cooler and hot water to simulate the water bath.  There should be instructions online from somebody.  I do recommend the immersion circulator for the convenience and precision.  An Annova costs as much as a good toaster oven.  You can use it for all sorts of meats and vegetables and since the stuff is vacuum sealed you can make meals ahead of time and reheat.  Think of it as a DVR for your kitchen.  It's particularly amazing with fish - which I find to be the protein with the lowest margin of error.

[Bruce Wang]

Okay Publius, I'm intrigued. How do I adapt this receipe for a Lazy?
1. Does the marinade simulate a dry-aged steak both in tenderness and in flavor?
2. Are you saying you cook it in a water bath first and then fry it in a pan? Do I need to do both? I'm really too lazy to cook something using two methods, so can I just use a slow-cooker? (too cheap to buy an anova). Or can I just fry it in a pan? (and if I do the pan method, do I need to wipe off or rinse away the marinade, or just grill it directly?

Thanks from a lazy cooker. Mrs. GoodGrief gets annoyed with me because I sometimes just microwave plain vegetables with tofu and a little soy sauce for a meal because my reasoning is that nutritious things like vegetables and tofu aren't meant to taste good anyway.

This process is perfect for the lazy in terms of human effort.  The fish sauce, the water bath, and time do the work. It does require some minor prep work so you have to think a few days ahead of time. 

The fish sauce simulates the flavor of dry aged.  The water bath makes any piece of beef tender.  You still need the frying pan or grill to produce the sear/crispy crust. 

You could skip the water bath and get the flavor of dry age from the fish sauce.  Or you could use a beer cooler and hot water to simulate the water bath.  There should be instructions online from somebody.  I do recommend the immersion circulator for the convenience and precision.  An Annova costs as much as a good toaster oven.  You can use it for all sorts of meats and vegetables and since the stuff is vacuum sealed you can make meals ahead of time and reheat.  Think of it as a DVR for your kitchen.  It's particularly amazing with fish - which I find to be the protein with the lowest margin of error.

[GoodGrief]

[quote author=Publius link=topic=10967.msg103975#msg103975 date=1414715231]
I do recommend the immersion circulator for the convenience and precision.  An Annova costs as much as a good toaster oven.  You can use it for all sorts of meats and vegetables and since the stuff is vacuum sealed you can make meals ahead of time and reheat.  Think of it as a DVR for your kitchen.  It's particularly amazing with fish - which I find to be the protein with the lowest margin of error.

"A DVR for your kitchen" is brilliant marketing.  Anova should use it.  Please don't get lazy and think you can throw a fish in warm water in a cooler and come back a few days later.  While a cooler can be used there is much more to it than that.  Be sure to read up on it.  Just reading the Anova website will give you an idea of what is required.
[/quote]

Both Ferrari and Publius kind of read my mind perfectly.

Publius's phrase "A DVR for your kitchen" is EXACTLY what made me think, "Hmm, maybe I should get an immersion circulator." I'm a big fan of making large quantities of food and freezing much of it for convenience eating later. And with Baby GoodGrief on his way in about 5 weeks, I expect to have even less time for anything. But you're right Ferrari, maybe I should actually look into it, because I was pretty much thinking, "Hmm, maybe I can just throw a fish in there and eat it whenever it's convenient."

[GoodGrief]

[quote author=Publius link=topic=10967.msg103975#msg103975 date=1414715231]
I do recommend the immersion circulator for the convenience and precision.  An Annova costs as much as a good toaster oven.  You can use it for all sorts of meats and vegetables and since the stuff is vacuum sealed you can make meals ahead of time and reheat.  Think of it as a DVR for your kitchen.  It's particularly amazing with fish - which I find to be the protein with the lowest margin of error.

"A DVR for your kitchen" is brilliant marketing.  Anova should use it.  Please don't get lazy and think you can throw a fish in warm water in a cooler and come back a few days later.  While a cooler can be used there is much more to it than that.  Be sure to read up on it.  Just reading the Anova website will give you an idea of what is required.
[/quote]

Both Ferrari and Publius kind of read my mind perfectly.

Publius's phrase "A DVR for your kitchen" is EXACTLY what made me think, "Hmm, maybe I should get an immersion circulator." I'm a big fan of making large quantities of food and freezing much of it for convenience eating later. And with Baby GoodGrief on his way in about 5 weeks, I expect to have even less time for anything. But you're right Ferrari, maybe I should actually look into it, because I was pretty much thinking, "Hmm, maybe I can just throw a fish in there and eat it whenever it's convenient."

[SUBuddha]

GG-

My wife made all of our kids baby food, we froze it in ice trays and thawed a few cubes at a time for the little Buddhas. If you are interested I can dig out the recipe book and send it to you if we still have it.

[SUBuddha]

GG-

My wife made all of our kids baby food, we froze it in ice trays and thawed a few cubes at a time for the little Buddhas. If you are interested I can dig out the recipe book and send it to you if we still have it.