[OutsiderFan]

Interesting Rivals interview with Lane Veach.

He had a miniscus injury toward the end of his season and his doctors found he also had a torn ACL, that he had been playing with (out) for some time that he had no idea about.

Veach rehabbed the meniscus and last week had surgery on the ACL.  He's expected to be back ready for workouts when he reports to Stanford this Summer.

I'm no orthopedist, but that return timetable from ACL surgery seems unusually fast.  Would such an early return be possible because there was no swelling in the knee, and because there was no obvious instability?  Do ACL tears require less rehab if the knee isn't subject to much if any trauma when the ACL is torn?  And if there is no obvious injury, how does the ACL get torn?

I remember RB Garrison Hearst was found to have a torn ACL before he was drafted, that he had no idea about.  He had surgery to repair it and had a very good NFL career. 

[OutsiderFan]

Interesting Rivals interview with Lane Veach.

He had a miniscus injury toward the end of his season and his doctors found he also had a torn ACL, that he had been playing with (out) for some time that he had no idea about.

Veach rehabbed the meniscus and last week had surgery on the ACL.  He's expected to be back ready for workouts when he reports to Stanford this Summer.

I'm no orthopedist, but that return timetable from ACL surgery seems unusually fast.  Would such an early return be possible because there was no swelling in the knee, and because there was no obvious instability?  Do ACL tears require less rehab if the knee isn't subject to much if any trauma when the ACL is torn?  And if there is no obvious injury, how does the ACL get torn?

I remember RB Garrison Hearst was found to have a torn ACL before he was drafted, that he had no idea about.  He had surgery to repair it and had a very good NFL career. 

[stanfan95118]

In light of Lealao and the 2013 class, does anyone think Brandon Fanaika might come in and play DT? Or should we assume rather that DT will be a major priority for 2015? 

[stanfan95118]

In light of Lealao and the 2013 class, does anyone think Brandon Fanaika might come in and play DT? Or should we assume rather that DT will be a major priority for 2015? 

[washingtonismoney]

In light of Lealao and the 2013 class, does anyone think Brandon Fanaika might come in and play DT? Or should we assume rather that DT will be a major priority for 2015? 

Yeah, Fanaika at NT might be possible. My thinking with NT in the 3-4 is you can never have enough of them, so I guess I wouldn't mind...both? We'll see.

FWIW a scouting report of Holder: http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...t-stanford

[washingtonismoney]

In light of Lealao and the 2013 class, does anyone think Brandon Fanaika might come in and play DT? Or should we assume rather that DT will be a major priority for 2015? 

Yeah, Fanaika at NT might be possible. My thinking with NT in the 3-4 is you can never have enough of them, so I guess I wouldn't mind...both? We'll see.

FWIW a scouting report of Holder: http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...t-stanford

[AthleticsDynasty]

Nose Tackle is definitely a need but I wanna see Fanaika as the heir apparent to DeCastro and Yankey

[AthleticsDynasty]

Nose Tackle is definitely a need but I wanna see Fanaika as the heir apparent to DeCastro and Yankey

[dabomb1227]

I believe Garnett is the heir apparent to DeCastro and Yankey.

If Fanaika can play NT, then he should most certainly be moved there.  We have good OG depth especially if Jesse Burkett comes and the coaching staff moves him inside while we lack quality NTs. 

However, the more important reason for moving him to NT is that NTs are almost impossible for Stanford to find.  It is the single position with the least academically qualified players year-in-year-out.  We are always able to find OL who can qualify so if he can play NT, then he should be moved there.

[dabomb1227]

I believe Garnett is the heir apparent to DeCastro and Yankey.

If Fanaika can play NT, then he should most certainly be moved there.  We have good OG depth especially if Jesse Burkett comes and the coaching staff moves him inside while we lack quality NTs. 

However, the more important reason for moving him to NT is that NTs are almost impossible for Stanford to find.  It is the single position with the least academically qualified players year-in-year-out.  We are always able to find OL who can qualify so if he can play NT, then he should be moved there.

[socalstanfan1]

I agree we lack the same depth at NT that we have at OG, and we especially seem to lack the classic shorter (6-2 or so) fire hydrant type of NT. What we do have are pretty big guys who are pretty athletic who CAN play inside if necessary. Ike Nwafor, if he can fully recover from his injury, fits this description, as does Henry Anderson. I think it is more likely that we see some of the other DL who have come in move over to the inside. Hopefully Lance Callahan or someone else can step up. Mauro was kind of off the radar until his junior year when he started getting significant playing time as a backup, then really came to the fore when Anderson went down with his injury this past season. So I'm not panicking yet. In Randy Hart I Trust.

Also, the player himself does have a say in what position he plays. Would Fanaika be really open to playing NT? It might be much better to have a motivated player at OG where he might turn into a real beast, rather than an unhappy, less-motivated player just doing time at NT.

[socalstanfan1]

I agree we lack the same depth at NT that we have at OG, and we especially seem to lack the classic shorter (6-2 or so) fire hydrant type of NT. What we do have are pretty big guys who are pretty athletic who CAN play inside if necessary. Ike Nwafor, if he can fully recover from his injury, fits this description, as does Henry Anderson. I think it is more likely that we see some of the other DL who have come in move over to the inside. Hopefully Lance Callahan or someone else can step up. Mauro was kind of off the radar until his junior year when he started getting significant playing time as a backup, then really came to the fore when Anderson went down with his injury this past season. So I'm not panicking yet. In Randy Hart I Trust.

Also, the player himself does have a say in what position he plays. Would Fanaika be really open to playing NT? It might be much better to have a motivated player at OG where he might turn into a real beast, rather than an unhappy, less-motivated player just doing time at NT.

[AthleticsDynasty]

Any chance Marx could play halfback next year?

[AthleticsDynasty]

Any chance Marx could play halfback next year?

[socalstanfan1]

It's great to be excited about all the new faces entering the program, but there are lots of good reasons to expect little from most of these guys in their first year in the program. Shaw has stated that he wants people to know all their assignments; they need to develop physically to make the adjustment, and they have good players in front of them. The list of guys who have come in as a true freshman and had a significant impact on the field is pretty small: Alex Carter, Ty Montgomery (by the end of his true freshman season), Shayne Skov (same situation as Montgomery)...anyone else, recently? Even future greats usually redshirted: Andrew Luck. Zach Ertz, David DeCastro. Others got on the field as backups (Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney). So it's nice to speculate about Marx or Alfieri becoming our big back of the future, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen next year.

[socalstanfan1]

It's great to be excited about all the new faces entering the program, but there are lots of good reasons to expect little from most of these guys in their first year in the program. Shaw has stated that he wants people to know all their assignments; they need to develop physically to make the adjustment, and they have good players in front of them. The list of guys who have come in as a true freshman and had a significant impact on the field is pretty small: Alex Carter, Ty Montgomery (by the end of his true freshman season), Shayne Skov (same situation as Montgomery)...anyone else, recently? Even future greats usually redshirted: Andrew Luck. Zach Ertz, David DeCastro. Others got on the field as backups (Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney). So it's nice to speculate about Marx or Alfieri becoming our big back of the future, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen next year.

[StannyBoy]

It's great to be excited about all the new faces entering the program, but there are lots of good reasons to expect little from most of these guys in their first year in the program. Shaw has stated that he wants people to know all their assignments; they need to develop physically to make the adjustment, and they have good players in front of them. The list of guys who have come in as a true freshman and had a significant impact on the field is pretty small: Alex Carter, Ty Montgomery (by the end of his true freshman season), Shayne Skov (same situation as Montgomery)...anyone else, recently? Even future greats usually redshirted: Andrew Luck. Zach Ertz, David DeCastro. Others got on the field as backups (Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney). So it's nice to speculate about Marx or Alfieri becoming our big back of the future, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen next year.

I agree but it is worth pointing out that RB is one of the positions where great players play as freshman and play well.

[StannyBoy]

It's great to be excited about all the new faces entering the program, but there are lots of good reasons to expect little from most of these guys in their first year in the program. Shaw has stated that he wants people to know all their assignments; they need to develop physically to make the adjustment, and they have good players in front of them. The list of guys who have come in as a true freshman and had a significant impact on the field is pretty small: Alex Carter, Ty Montgomery (by the end of his true freshman season), Shayne Skov (same situation as Montgomery)...anyone else, recently? Even future greats usually redshirted: Andrew Luck. Zach Ertz, David DeCastro. Others got on the field as backups (Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney). So it's nice to speculate about Marx or Alfieri becoming our big back of the future, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen next year.

I agree but it is worth pointing out that RB is one of the positions where great players play as freshman and play well.

[socalstanfan1]

If they can adequately block in pass protection, at least on this team.

[socalstanfan1]

If they can adequately block in pass protection, at least on this team.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=socalstanfan1 link=topic=6741.msg82668#msg82668 date=1390861904]
It's great to be excited about all the new faces entering the program, but there are lots of good reasons to expect little from most of these guys in their first year in the program. Shaw has stated that he wants people to know all their assignments; they need to develop physically to make the adjustment, and they have good players in front of them. The list of guys who have come in as a true freshman and had a significant impact on the field is pretty small: Alex Carter, Ty Montgomery (by the end of his true freshman season), Shayne Skov (same situation as Montgomery)...anyone else, recently? Even future greats usually redshirted: Andrew Luck. Zach Ertz, David DeCastro. Others got on the field as backups (Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney). So it's nice to speculate about Marx or Alfieri becoming our big back of the future, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen next year.

I agree but it is worth pointing out that RB is one of the positions where great players play as freshman and play well.
[/quote]

To be specific, as true freshmen, Stepfan Taylor had 56 carries for 306 yards; Tyler Gaffney had 22 carries for 84 yards; Anthony Wilkerson had 89 carries for 408 yards.

I don't think Young, Wright, or Sanders had carries as true freshmen.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=socalstanfan1 link=topic=6741.msg82668#msg82668 date=1390861904]
It's great to be excited about all the new faces entering the program, but there are lots of good reasons to expect little from most of these guys in their first year in the program. Shaw has stated that he wants people to know all their assignments; they need to develop physically to make the adjustment, and they have good players in front of them. The list of guys who have come in as a true freshman and had a significant impact on the field is pretty small: Alex Carter, Ty Montgomery (by the end of his true freshman season), Shayne Skov (same situation as Montgomery)...anyone else, recently? Even future greats usually redshirted: Andrew Luck. Zach Ertz, David DeCastro. Others got on the field as backups (Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney). So it's nice to speculate about Marx or Alfieri becoming our big back of the future, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen next year.

I agree but it is worth pointing out that RB is one of the positions where great players play as freshman and play well.
[/quote]

To be specific, as true freshmen, Stepfan Taylor had 56 carries for 306 yards; Tyler Gaffney had 22 carries for 84 yards; Anthony Wilkerson had 89 carries for 408 yards.

I don't think Young, Wright, or Sanders had carries as true freshmen.

[socalstanfan1]

Things can change, obviously, but right now I would think there are two members of the incoming class who have a good chance to get significant playing time, with a third possibility depending on how things play out in the next week.

Brandon Simmons seems like a candidate, given the need at safety and his high ranking. I still think he would be a longshot to start at the beginning of the season, but as the year goes on, maybe. I think with him it may depend on if he is physically strong enough to handle big time college football when he first steps on the field. I do recall reading a couple of times at at the recruit camps he seemed like a take-charge guy who understood defenses quickly, which sounds great.

The other possibility would be Dalton Shultz, given the lack of production by the TEs last season. If he can master the play book, one could imagine him getting,on the field, depending upon how the other TEs are developing.

The third possibility would be Solomon Thomas, what with the loss of both Josh Mauro and Ben Gardner. If Shittu, Watkins, or someone else does not really step up and claim that position, maybe Thomas can gain some time.

Does anyone else seriously get on the field? Is Casey Tucker going to jump over all the backups, and unseat Kyle Murphy or Andrus Peat in his first year? Doubtful. Will Christian McCaffrey jump over BSJ, Wright, Rickey Seale and maybe Kelsey Young? Possible, but I think those other guys get a long look first. There's a tremendous amount of physical and mental preparation in making the transition from HS to College athletics.

[socalstanfan1]

Things can change, obviously, but right now I would think there are two members of the incoming class who have a good chance to get significant playing time, with a third possibility depending on how things play out in the next week.

Brandon Simmons seems like a candidate, given the need at safety and his high ranking. I still think he would be a longshot to start at the beginning of the season, but as the year goes on, maybe. I think with him it may depend on if he is physically strong enough to handle big time college football when he first steps on the field. I do recall reading a couple of times at at the recruit camps he seemed like a take-charge guy who understood defenses quickly, which sounds great.

The other possibility would be Dalton Shultz, given the lack of production by the TEs last season. If he can master the play book, one could imagine him getting,on the field, depending upon how the other TEs are developing.

The third possibility would be Solomon Thomas, what with the loss of both Josh Mauro and Ben Gardner. If Shittu, Watkins, or someone else does not really step up and claim that position, maybe Thomas can gain some time.

Does anyone else seriously get on the field? Is Casey Tucker going to jump over all the backups, and unseat Kyle Murphy or Andrus Peat in his first year? Doubtful. Will Christian McCaffrey jump over BSJ, Wright, Rickey Seale and maybe Kelsey Young? Possible, but I think those other guys get a long look first. There's a tremendous amount of physical and mental preparation in making the transition from HS to College athletics.

[kuz]

I wouldn't be surprised if Casey Tucker got playing time as a 7th O-lineman in heavy sets. McCaffrey could definitely get in the conversation as punt returner, and considering how little we know about the running game next season, it's not implausible that he could get a nontrivial percentage of carries.

[kuz]

I wouldn't be surprised if Casey Tucker got playing time as a 7th O-lineman in heavy sets. McCaffrey could definitely get in the conversation as punt returner, and considering how little we know about the running game next season, it's not implausible that he could get a nontrivial percentage of carries.

[rudruff]

I think the occasional heavy set will still be in play regardless of what else happens. They don't result in negative plays too often and it gives some of the lineman who aren't starting some game action and an opportunity to hit a DB or two.

[rudruff]

I think the occasional heavy set will still be in play regardless of what else happens. They don't result in negative plays too often and it gives some of the lineman who aren't starting some game action and an opportunity to hit a DB or two.

[OutsiderFan]

As the sophistication of player development increases, and college systems are simplified to enable faster paced game play, so too do more True Frosh play and make big impacts.  How many True Frosh did UCLA play in 2013, 19?  Every year it seems more younger players are getting on the field sooner.  This is a trend that will continue.

Whether Shaw concludes simplifying things to get the best athletes on the field as soon as possible is the best route to success for his program, is open for debate.

[OutsiderFan]

As the sophistication of player development increases, and college systems are simplified to enable faster paced game play, so too do more True Frosh play and make big impacts.  How many True Frosh did UCLA play in 2013, 19?  Every year it seems more younger players are getting on the field sooner.  This is a trend that will continue.

Whether Shaw concludes simplifying things to get the best athletes on the field as soon as possible is the best route to success for his program, is open for debate.

[DC]

Simplifying to get the best athletes on the field?  Our offense is pretty simple now.  We must only be using a quarter of Greg Roman's playbook.

[DC]

Simplifying to get the best athletes on the field?  Our offense is pretty simple now.  We must only be using a quarter of Greg Roman's playbook.

[washingtonismoney]

As the sophistication of player development increases, and college systems are simplified to enable faster paced game play, so too do more True Frosh play and make big impacts.  How many True Frosh did UCLA play in 2013, 19?  Every year it seems more younger players are getting on the field sooner.  This is a trend that will continue.

Whether Shaw concludes simplifying things to get the best athletes on the field as soon as possible is the best route to success for his program, is open for debate.

I don't think it's quite that simple. I haven't done research into this, but I recall Baylor fans commenting about this -- for example, at least a few were confounded it took Lache Seastrunk so long to see the field in 2012 (especially since his presence transformed the team.)

There are a few variables, it seems to me:
1. Quality of team -- of course UCLA fielded more freshmen. They were a worse team! Better teams tend to be older.
2. Quality of incoming players/position played -- More highly-rated players tend to see the field early; linemen and quarterbacks need seasoning while skill players tend to hit the field earlier. Stanford's highly-rated players  tend to be linemen and quarterbacks. I don't think it's an accident that the players who have made an early impact at Stanford tend to be both highly-rated and skill players.
3. System -- some systems seem to accommodate early players and some don't. Is that an advantage, even with all things being equal? That is, will a player developed under that less accommodative system end in a more effective place than one in a more accommodative systems?

So I think it's hard to sort out the confounding variables. I'm sure someone will try to sort them out at some point.

EDIT: shaw-era Stanford has also had some bad luck in this respect -- Lyons, Cajuste and Rector all got injured either pre- or early-season freshman year.

[washingtonismoney]

As the sophistication of player development increases, and college systems are simplified to enable faster paced game play, so too do more True Frosh play and make big impacts.  How many True Frosh did UCLA play in 2013, 19?  Every year it seems more younger players are getting on the field sooner.  This is a trend that will continue.

Whether Shaw concludes simplifying things to get the best athletes on the field as soon as possible is the best route to success for his program, is open for debate.

I don't think it's quite that simple. I haven't done research into this, but I recall Baylor fans commenting about this -- for example, at least a few were confounded it took Lache Seastrunk so long to see the field in 2012 (especially since his presence transformed the team.)

There are a few variables, it seems to me:
1. Quality of team -- of course UCLA fielded more freshmen. They were a worse team! Better teams tend to be older.
2. Quality of incoming players/position played -- More highly-rated players tend to see the field early; linemen and quarterbacks need seasoning while skill players tend to hit the field earlier. Stanford's highly-rated players  tend to be linemen and quarterbacks. I don't think it's an accident that the players who have made an early impact at Stanford tend to be both highly-rated and skill players.
3. System -- some systems seem to accommodate early players and some don't. Is that an advantage, even with all things being equal? That is, will a player developed under that less accommodative system end in a more effective place than one in a more accommodative systems?

So I think it's hard to sort out the confounding variables. I'm sure someone will try to sort them out at some point.

EDIT: shaw-era Stanford has also had some bad luck in this respect -- Lyons, Cajuste and Rector all got injured either pre- or early-season freshman year.

[OutsiderFan]

Listen to interviews with college coaches who have gone to more simplified offenses in an effort to increase the pace of play.  You will hear three reasons espoused by any such coach:

1. Don't have a lot of practice time with student athletes, so want to make the system as easy to learn as possible; fewer plays, more reps
2. Simplified systems allow the best athletes to get on the field and contribute faster
3. Instead of tiring out defenses with brute physical force, we tire them out by pace and number of plays they must defend

It may very well be that Stanford gains a strategic advantage over its opponents by in general putting more physically prepared players on the field, with knowledge of more sophisticated schemes.  We've seen the results when Stanford maybe hasn't had the same quality of athletes as its opponents at the skill positions.  As the better skill athletes Stanford has brought in over the last few years begin to take on a greater role on the team, it will be quite interesting to see if more developed and prepared, better skill athletes means Stanford gets even better as a team.

[OutsiderFan]

Listen to interviews with college coaches who have gone to more simplified offenses in an effort to increase the pace of play.  You will hear three reasons espoused by any such coach:

1. Don't have a lot of practice time with student athletes, so want to make the system as easy to learn as possible; fewer plays, more reps
2. Simplified systems allow the best athletes to get on the field and contribute faster
3. Instead of tiring out defenses with brute physical force, we tire them out by pace and number of plays they must defend

It may very well be that Stanford gains a strategic advantage over its opponents by in general putting more physically prepared players on the field, with knowledge of more sophisticated schemes.  We've seen the results when Stanford maybe hasn't had the same quality of athletes as its opponents at the skill positions.  As the better skill athletes Stanford has brought in over the last few years begin to take on a greater role on the team, it will be quite interesting to see if more developed and prepared, better skill athletes means Stanford gets even better as a team.

[Bruce Wang]

Does anyone else seriously get on the field? Is Casey Tucker going to jump over all the backups, and unseat Kyle Murphy or Andrus Peat in his first year? Doubtful. Will Christian McCaffrey jump over BJS, Wright, Rickey Seale and maybe Kelsey Young? Possible, but I think those other guys get a long look first. There's a tremendous amount of physical and mental preparation in making the transition from HS to College athletics.

I think CMac will get on the field frequently and will be the feature back by the end of the season. Peat and Carter saw a lot of action as true frosh.  Having an NFL father must help in preparation.  Francis saw some action last season and he had a brother that had been in our system.

[Bruce Wang]

Does anyone else seriously get on the field? Is Casey Tucker going to jump over all the backups, and unseat Kyle Murphy or Andrus Peat in his first year? Doubtful. Will Christian McCaffrey jump over BJS, Wright, Rickey Seale and maybe Kelsey Young? Possible, but I think those other guys get a long look first. There's a tremendous amount of physical and mental preparation in making the transition from HS to College athletics.

I think CMac will get on the field frequently and will be the feature back by the end of the season. Peat and Carter saw a lot of action as true frosh.  Having an NFL father must help in preparation.  Francis saw some action last season and he had a brother that had been in our system.

[Stymie]

My personal feeling is that Coach Shaw will give chances to Freshmen, even those who are really special athletes, only over his dead body or in the context of an unfortuanate series of injuries with his more senior players.  The mantra at Stanford now seems to be much more Woody Hayes than Bill Walsh--experience, knoweldge of the playbook, stength, conditioning, repetitions, perfection, rather than; natural skill, creativity, potential, growth potential.

One of the defining plays of 2013 was Whitlfield's amazing TD catch vs. UCLA.  When will we ever see him again......

[Stymie]

My personal feeling is that Coach Shaw will give chances to Freshmen, even those who are really special athletes, only over his dead body or in the context of an unfortuanate series of injuries with his more senior players.  The mantra at Stanford now seems to be much more Woody Hayes than Bill Walsh--experience, knoweldge of the playbook, stength, conditioning, repetitions, perfection, rather than; natural skill, creativity, potential, growth potential.

One of the defining plays of 2013 was Whitlfield's amazing TD catch vs. UCLA.  When will we ever see him again......