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Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

Looks like #13 SC and #17 UCLA could meet in the semis, the winner going to the winner of the likely #33 Georgia vs. #9 LSU match.

USC has given a couple back over the last half hour, so they're the shakiest of the four right now.

Makes you wonder about golf rankings, perhaps.  Given their performances on the season, it's amazing to think that FSU, Illinois or Texas--each ranked in the top five and among the top four in the stroke play competition--might be out at the end of this morning.  Casey's brother (Illinois's #2) seems to have picked the wrong week to struggle.

And further confirmation that competitive golf is, well, weird.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

Never underestimate the ability of an LA team to choke.

Casey Danielson's brother has just one four holes in a row against UCLA, to go from three down to one up.  The Bruins one-time +8 edge in their matches is now down to +3. 

USC had four leads, but they're just 2,2,1, and 1. 

Illinois played too well this year not to deserve a shot at the title,  Maybe they will get it, and at UCLA's expense. 

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - oldalum - 06-02-2015

To what extent do you think the inconsistent performance at the championships of the best teams coming into the championships is due to the fact that it is one particular type of course, played under particular conditions (this year, high heat, humidity, and rain), while season-long performance was achieved over many courses and conditions?

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - oldalum - 06-02-2015

Illinois is continuing to surge: the match is even at 2-2-1 right now, and Illinois' Danielson is up 4 and dormie.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

Surging, no kidding.

UCLA's shah up three, loses three of next four holes.

UCLA's Garrick up three, loses four of the next five holes,

And UCLA's Knapp, up three over our Casey Danielson's brother, loses seven of the next seven holes. 

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

I think Slide will agree, and add his typical added insights, that it's timing and the golf course.

It's just one week of many.  Some weeks it's there and some it's not.

And some courses set up for some guy's games and eyes, and some don't. 

This is basically a Nicklaus course, which famously sets up for Jack's game: the long high fade.  Jack thinks that's the real measure of a golfer.  Lots of guys from West Texas can drill the long low draw, and play Bomg and Gouge.  Hit it long and then get it out of trouble if you find it.  This isn't that kind of course.  And that may be why Texas, a very good team, is gone.

Being near Jack's home, Illini likely sees a lot of Jack courses.  USF sees lot of this course; it's their home course.

And as for our guys, we weren't a top ten team this season.  We made a great run at the end, but we did it with one superstar but no srong second.  Boote was a credible enough number three.  Swegle and Huang were rookies but are showing some growth. But we're no where near Illinois's class.  They have three #1s. 

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

One more re the NCAAs.

Conrad once told me that the NCAA was an easier tournament to win than others. 

My recollection of his words.  "In the regular season tournaments, every team things that it can win and there's not much as stake.  At the NCAAs, maybe three or four teams really think they can win, and the rest are scared, or they get scared if they get into position."

I'd also guess that the top several teams--FSU and Texas--feel added pressure.  They may believe they can win, but they also know that a lot of is expected of them.  If things go south at some point, the pressure of those expectations--mostly, their fans--can make things go farther south.  Golf is so mental. It's impossible to play well if you go tight, and the majority of kids--many of them great players when the pressure is off--get tight.  Stackhouse is among the exceptions, as saw; she loves the heat.

Illlinois is the only team left that came in with a high ranking and high expectations. Still have to see how that turns out.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

If they match is on 8 and 9, Illini's guy could be in trouble.  He's played those holes +5. Valder's played tham -3.  (Alas, no.  They're playing the course front to back, so it's 17 and 18.  Valder's around +7 today, not the guy you want hitting clean up. 


Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - terry - 06-02-2015

Illinois beat UCLA 3-2 in a match that went down to the last hole for the last pair.

Given UCLA's recent elimination in men's golf, softball, and baseball, they realistically have no more national championship possibilities this year.

U'S'C beat Texas 3-0-2 and will face Illinois in the semi-final. The other semi-final is Georgia vs. LSU.

Go Illini!

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - oldalum - 06-02-2015

The Illinois freshman had to make an 8-footer for par to win the match and he drained it. (18th hole)

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - terry - 06-02-2015

Yep, that was a nice par putt under pressure by the Illinois player on 18.

The key to the match was 17. They reached 17 all square. The UCLA player hit the ball in the water twice, first from the tee, then again from the fairway. Maybe the pressure got to him. That gave Illinois the lead going to 18, where par was enough to win.

All three Illinois players who won came back from deficits. Two of the Illinois players were 3 holes down and came back big time. The third Illinois player was never down more than 1 hole, but never led until they finished 17. Nice comeback by Illinois. Must be tough for UCLA to lose after having those leads.

I hope the Illini keep the momentum going against U'S'C.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Spiny_Norman - 06-02-2015

(06-02-2015, 07:13 AM)Hulk01 link Wrote:Makes you wonder about golf rankings, perhaps.  Given their performances on the season, it's amazing to think that FSU, Illinois or Texas--each ranked in the top five and among the top four in the stroke play competition--might be out at the end of this morning.  Casey's brother (Illinois's #2) seems to have picked the wrong week to struggle.

And further confirmation that competitive golf is, well, weird.

The rankings are substantially based on medal play tournament results.  Match play is different and can be a great equalizer.  In the 1st year of the men switching to the medal/match format (2009), the winning team Texas A&M was ranked 14th.  In 30+ years of medal play championships, all of the women's champs were in the top 10.  In the first year of the medal/match format, the new women's champ Stanford entered the tournament ranked 13th. 

Also competitive golf is weird only in that the difference between very good amateur players is not that great.  A #5 player on a team who is on his/her game can beat a #1 or #2 as we saw last week when USC's #5 soundly beat Mariah Stackhouse.  Also sometimes teams really do have a bad week.  At the regionals, LSU finished 5th and barely qualified for the NCAA finals.  They made up a 15 shot deficit in the final round and did not qualify until LSU's best player birdied his final hole and Iowa's best player bogied his final hole.  But LSU is a very good team and re-grouped.  Now they are in the national semifinals against Georgia which entered the tournament ranked 34th.

I think what we can conclude that it does take a great week of play and some amount of luck to win it all.  At the start of the tournament, all 30 teams in the field think they have a realistic chance to win it all.  How many other NCAA tournaments are so wide open?  It's been a great 2 weeks to be a golf fan.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Farm93 - 06-02-2015

It also helps that the regular season of golf is meaningless to most programs.  Results during those tournaments are not tracked by alums, golf fans, etc. 

If college football had a way to completely devalue the regular season by hosting a tournament where anyone could win, I doubt that would be embraced.  For AD budgets it is very important that the games during the season are important enough for people to come and support the squad.

Upsets are also entertaining for the NCAA basketball tournament, but I have heard concerns that maybe the regular season is not important enough if 5 or more teams from a conference get at-large bids.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Spiny_Norman - 06-02-2015

(06-02-2015, 02:02 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:It also helps that the regular season of golf is meaningless to most programs.  Results during those tournaments are not tracked by alums, golf fans, etc. 

I have been tracking the college season since last fall with (of course) a special interest in Stanford and its opponents.  I am an alum and a golf fan.  I may qualify as an etc. too.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - BostonCard - 06-02-2015

Question for alums, golf fans, etc...

Is there any good place to watch the Stanford team live (locally in the Bay Area)?  And is it worth going to watch a collegiate tournament as a spectator?

Thanks,
BC

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - oldalum - 06-02-2015

No Danielson family double championship: U$C vs. LSU in the finals.  Not hard to decide who to root for there.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Spiny_Norman - 06-02-2015

(06-02-2015, 03:34 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Question for alums, golf fans, etc...

Is there any good place to watch the Stanford team live (locally in the Bay Area)?  And is it worth going to watch a collegiate tournament as a spectator?

Thanks,
BC

BC, most definitely.  The Stanford women host a fall tournament (Stanford Intercollegiate) and a spring tournament (Peg Barnard Invitational).  The Stanford men host a spring tournament (The Goodwin) and also play at Pasatiempo in Santa Cruz at the Western Intercollegiate and at the Gifford Collegiate at CordeValle in San Martin.  Next year you can also watch one of the women's NCAA regionals at Stanford. 

If you do gallery a tournament, you may find yourself in a small but select group of fans.  Most of the time the gallery is mainly family, coaches and tournament volunteers. 

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Hulk01 - 06-02-2015

Yes, you don't need to joust for position.  The day I followed Patrick Rodgers, his entire gallery comprised my date, Patrick's dad, and me.

I recommend the Pasatiempo event.  Alistair McKenzie, who designed Augusta National and Royal Melbourne, designed the course and lived in a house just off one of backside greens (14, I think.)  Stanford's course, although very good, isn't considered in its class.

If you do attend a Stanford event, however, check out the practice facilities.  They're the Augusta National of their kind.  Unmatched anywhere.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Farm93 - 06-02-2015

(06-02-2015, 03:33 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=12209.msg119885#msg119885 date=1433278925]
It also helps that the regular season of golf is meaningless to most programs.  Results during those tournaments are not tracked by alums, golf fans, etc. 

I have been tracking the college season since last fall with (of course) a special interest in Stanford and its opponents.  I am an alum and a golf fan.  I may qualify as an etc. too.
[/quote]
Always an exception or two to the rule.  And based on the attendance at the women's NCAA tournament it seemed that there were only a few exceptions per school.  If you told me they restricted attendance to coaches & families I would have believed it.

Re: Interesting at NCAA men's golf - Mick - 06-03-2015

(06-02-2015, 08:09 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:I recommend the Pasatiempo event.  Alistair McKenzie, who designed Augusta National and Royal Melbourne, designed the course and lived in a house just off one of backside greens (14, I think.)  Stanford's course, although very good, isn't considered in its class.

The Western Intercollegiates at Pasatiempo is truly a great show.  My dad lives around the corner from Alister MacKenzie's home, which is actually on the left side of the sixth fairway.  He also designed Cypress Point, a wonderful course.