Stanford housing - Printable Version
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Stanford housing - qwerty49 - 06-03-2024
Op-Ed from the Daily re inadequacy of Stanford's housing program:
https://stanforddaily.com/2024/06/02/chen-stanfords-housing-disaster/
I wonder how far down the list this is for recruiting considerations. Back in the day we just took housing for granted.
RE: Stanford housing - Jamesy - 06-03-2024
(06-03-2024, 12:38 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Op-Ed from the Daily re inadequacy of Stanford's housing program:
https://stanforddaily.com/2024/06/02/chen-stanfords-housing-disaster/
I wonder how far down the list this is for recruiting considerations. Back in the day we just took housing for granted.
Can't remember the guy's name but we lost that running back from Tennessee to cal because he didn't like his dorm room.
RE: Stanford housing - Goose - 06-03-2024
I am a bit confused. The undergraduate population in 1970 was 6,221. The undergraduate population in 2023 was 7,841. Stanford has built quite a bit of undergraduate housing since I left in 1972. Did they not build enough to house the additional 1,620 students? It would appear they did not, based on this Daily article. Given the MASSIVE building extravaganza over the last 50 years this is hard to credit. I am guessing there is more than a bit of chicanery going on here. I would like to see what the Housing Office numbers are regarding available housing vs number of students.
RE: Stanford housing - BostonCard - 06-03-2024
Stanford still guarantees 12 quarters of housing to undergraduate students:
https://rde.stanford.edu/studenthousing/housing-guarantee-and-eligibility-undergraduate-housing
Of course, there is no guarantee on the quality of that housing.
BC
RE: Stanford housing - 82lsju - 06-03-2024
(06-03-2024, 05:55 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Stanford still guarantees 12 quarters of housing to undergraduate students:
https://rde.stanford.edu/studenthousing/housing-guarantee-and-eligibility-undergraduate-housing
Of course, there is no guarantee on the quality of that housing.
BC
exactly, so if you get a bad draw number (or whatever they call the equivalent today) you may end up in Stern or Wilbur. Back in the stone age you were likely to spend a year off-campus, of course some back then went to extraordinary lengths to get on-campus housing, one of my former roommates spent a couple weeks fall quarter living in the Branner basement until an on-campus spot became available....
RE: Stanford housing - qwerty49 - 06-03-2024
(06-03-2024, 05:52 PM)Goose Wrote: I am a bit confused. The undergraduate population in 1970 was 6,221. The undergraduate population in 2023 was 7,841. Stanford has built quite a bit of undergraduate housing since I left in 1972. Did they not build enough to house the additional 1,620 students? It would appear they did not, based on this Daily article. Given the MASSIVE building extravaganza over the last 50 years this is hard to credit. I am guessing there is more than a bit of chicanery going on here. I would like to see what the Housing Office numbers are regarding available housing vs number of students.
Other than the infamous trailers of Manzanita Park in fall of 1970, what new housing has been built for undergrads? I know the trailers were meant to be “temporary” and ended up being an eyesore for more than a decade IIRC.
Some of the old Row houses were repurposed when the Greek system dried up in the 70s but I don’t think that increased capacity.
RE: Stanford housing - Goose - 06-03-2024
(06-03-2024, 06:05 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:Flo Mo gained an inhabited lower story. Crothers and Crothers Memorial are now undergraduate facilities. As I understand it these latter two feature lots of singles that back "in the day" were doubles. Two new houses were added to Lagunita Court in 2016. There is the Gerhard Casper Quad. There is Governor's Corner. The latter two are quite large. There are probably several others that my quick search didn't find. There are also many more "housing options" than existed in 1972. These add a "distributed" number of potential options. All in all, it looks like quite a bit to me.(06-03-2024, 05:52 PM)Goose Wrote: I am a bit confused. The undergraduate population in 1970 was 6,221. The undergraduate population in 2023 was 7,841. Stanford has built quite a bit of undergraduate housing since I left in 1972. Did they not build enough to house the additional 1,620 students? It would appear they did not, based on this Daily article. Given the MASSIVE building extravaganza over the last 50 years this is hard to credit. I am guessing there is more than a bit of chicanery going on here. I would like to see what the Housing Office numbers are regarding available housing vs number of students.
Other than the infamous trailers of Manzanita Park in fall of 1970, what new housing has been built for undergrads? I know the trailers were meant to be “temporary” and ended up being an eyesore for more than a decade IIRC.
Some of the old Row houses were repurposed when the Greek system dried up in the 70s but I don’t think that increased capacity.
UPDATE: Can't ignore EVGR-A, which is probably big enough to incarcerate, sorry, house the entire 1,620 student increase :-).
This should be the whole story from last year. Looks like "plenty" to me. Yes, there are lots more singles than back in the day. Cedro still holds over 90 though. Only 3 more singles there :-). https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://rde-stanford-edu.s3.amazonaws.com/housing_chart_vertical_8.5x11.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjpl4bM68CGAxXYIEQIHTu4Ey8QFnoECCgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3AxEeeLIgWs3pL8ClVWTzR
RE: Stanford housing - chrisk - 06-03-2024
The brobdingnagian Class of 2025 because of all the deferred enrollments during COVID seems to be part of the problem, along with
reducing the number of undergrads assigned to EVGR and finally turning it over to the intended graduate students.
RE: Stanford housing - 82lsju - 06-04-2024
(06-03-2024, 06:05 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(06-03-2024, 05:52 PM)Goose Wrote: I am a bit confused. The undergraduate population in 1970 was 6,221. The undergraduate population in 2023 was 7,841. Stanford has built quite a bit of undergraduate housing since I left in 1972. Did they not build enough to house the additional 1,620 students? It would appear they did not, based on this Daily article. Given the MASSIVE building extravaganza over the last 50 years this is hard to credit. I am guessing there is more than a bit of chicanery going on here. I would like to see what the Housing Office numbers are regarding available housing vs number of students.
Other than the infamous trailers of Manzanita Park in fall of 1970, what new housing has been built for undergrads? I know the trailers were meant to be “temporary” and ended up being an eyesore for more than a decade IIRC.
Some of the old Row houses were repurposed when the Greek system dried up in the 70s but I don’t think that increased capacity.
Governor's Corner dorms were all built after my time, nephew-in-law lived in one in the early 2000s and it was much nicer than Stern or Wilbur
Quote:Planning for Governor’s Corner began in 1978 as an answer to a housing need for 800 new students. Sterling Quadrangle was the final structure completed in a phase from 1982-1983 after the opening of the Independent Houses, Suites and Dining societies and the Elliott Program Center.
https://rde.stanford.edu/studenthousing/governors-corner-sterling-quad
RE: Stanford housing - GK3 - 06-04-2024
(06-04-2024, 09:05 AM)82lsju Wrote:(06-03-2024, 06:05 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(06-03-2024, 05:52 PM)Goose Wrote: I am a bit confused. The undergraduate population in 1970 was 6,221. The undergraduate population in 2023 was 7,841. Stanford has built quite a bit of undergraduate housing since I left in 1972. Did they not build enough to house the additional 1,620 students? It would appear they did not, based on this Daily article. Given the MASSIVE building extravaganza over the last 50 years this is hard to credit. I am guessing there is more than a bit of chicanery going on here. I would like to see what the Housing Office numbers are regarding available housing vs number of students.
Other than the infamous trailers of Manzanita Park in fall of 1970, what new housing has been built for undergrads? I know the trailers were meant to be “temporary” and ended up being an eyesore for more than a decade IIRC.
Some of the old Row houses were repurposed when the Greek system dried up in the 70s but I don’t think that increased capacity.
Governor's Corner dorms were all built after my time, nephew-in-law lived in one in the early 2000s and it was much nicer than Stern or Wilbur
Quote:Planning for Governor’s Corner began in 1978 as an answer to a housing need for 800 new students. Sterling Quadrangle was the final structure completed in a phase from 1982-1983 after the opening of the Independent Houses, Suites and Dining societies and the Elliott Program Center.
https://rde.stanford.edu/studenthousing/governors-corner-sterling-quad
I guess I am too old to underestand how we got ourselves into this mess. I am one of a very few graduates who spent all four years in the same room in the same dorm at Stanford. My Freshman year, the University had too many acceptances to fit into Wilbur, so a few of us got sent to Stern. I spent the next four years in the same room with the same guys. It had its good and bad parts, but I made a lot of life long friends, most of whom have sadly passed on.
So how can an organization that has a plan, at least I hope we have a plan, as to how much the undergrad student body will grow. That plan I would think would take into account the need for housing. So if it is as bad as the Daily claims, one has to question "who is in charge here".
RE: Stanford housing - Goose - 06-04-2024
(06-03-2024, 11:06 PM)chrisk Wrote: The of immense proportions Class of 2025 because of all the deferred enrollments during COVID seems to be part of the problem, along withThe deferred enrollments are a potential problem only if the Housing Office was unaware of them and didn't provide a realistic capacity estimate to admissions. For all I know, that is indeed the case, but the University has to respond to such predictable events. I am pretty sure those who deferred their enrollment didn't just show up unexpectedly.
reducing the number of undergrads assigned to EVGR and finally turning it over to the intended graduate students.
I also wonder about what affect the gerrymandering of Stanford undergraduate housing by the creation of "neighborhoods" has on the housing situation. Staying in your neighborhood is as I understand it a big advantage in future draw priority. This creates a disincentive to look outside the houses that are in your neighborhood. It may be their is a distribution problem as a result. There may be other options available but they are not in your neighborhood so you really don't want to do that. You would also have very low draw priority for them. These are all things that will undoubtedly sort themselves out, but it may take some time.
RE: Stanford housing - 82lsju - 06-04-2024
(06-04-2024, 11:01 AM)Goose Wrote:(06-03-2024, 11:06 PM)chrisk Wrote: The of immense proportions Class of 2025 because of all the deferred enrollments during COVID seems to be part of the problem, along withThe deferred enrollments are a potential problem only if the Housing Office was unaware of them and didn't provide a realistic capacity estimate to admissions. For all I know, that is indeed the case, but the University has to respond to such predictable events. I am pretty sure those who deferred their enrollment didn't just show up unexpectedly.
reducing the number of undergrads assigned to EVGR and finally turning it over to the intended graduate students.
I also wonder about what affect the gerrymandering of Stanford undergraduate housing by the creation of "neighborhoods" has on the housing situation. Staying in your neighborhood is as I understand it a big advantage in future draw priority. This creates a disincentive to look outside the houses that are in your neighborhood. It may be their is a distribution problem as a result. There may be other options available but they are not in your neighborhood so you really don't want to do that. You would also have very low draw priority for them. These are all things that will undoubtedly sort themselves out, but it may take some time.
the bump from COVID deferrals should have been in the system before now given those students have been enrolled for a while....maybe it is all the athletes transferring in.....
RE: Stanford housing - WindyCityCard - 06-04-2024
I've heard that there's been an increase in the # of undergrads who get singles as part of disability accommodations. Their draw group members also get allocated to the same dorm (including if that dorm is all singles, like some of the newest ones).
I don't know how many students get disability-related housing accommodations, but I do know that a lot of students now get extra time or other accommodations on exams.
RE: Stanford housing - Farm93 - 06-04-2024
Governor's Corner.
Quality living back in the late 80s and 90s, but for many it has always been just a touch too far from the hub of campus life.
The Casper Quad dorms are better in many ways, but I believe they also lack the in-dorm social vibe many seek.
I have seen quite a few students post comments that imply Wilbur and Stern are actually best for incoming students because they are more vibrant and similar to the college life experience HS student anticipate they will experience at college.
I would imagine there are a few forces in play for the strong demand.
The increase in the undergrad class size, the unexpectedly strong yield of a few recent classes, COVID increasing stop out rates in 2020-2021 and 2021-2022, and the ever increasing cost of housing off-campus.
FWIW - I think it is funny that the Daily writer complained about room and board costs. I would guess several thousand citizens in the SF Bay Area would happily pay the that R&B rate for a small shared room in a family home. And let's not even talk about SF Bay Area food and restaurant costs.
At many schools on campus housing is vastly more expensive than off campus options, but for Stanford the students are getting an unbelievable discount to the prevailing rate.
And I guess this Joyce Chen is not an Econ major, as one logical solution to the imbalance between demand and supply would be to INCREASE the cost to reduce demand since supply is apparently fixed.
The new higher CA minimum wage likely have increased labor costs. In most service industries those costs are getting passed on to consumers. All of those workers that cook food and clean the dorms are now quite a bit more costly than they were 12 months ago. A 7% increase could be reasonable even if the university had been charging something closer to the market rate for housing.
RE: Stanford housing - BostonCard - 06-04-2024
(06-04-2024, 12:23 PM)82lsju Wrote: the bump from COVID deferrals should have been in the system before now given those students have been enrolled for a while....maybe it is all the athletes transferring in.....
When students deferred due to COVID in 2020, it made the class of 2024 a little smaller and the class of 2025 a little larger. Those two forces balanced out from 2021 through 2024, but this year the smaller class of 2024 is graduating so the undergraduate population will be a bit larger next year due to the '24s who deferred to be part of the class of 2025.
BC
RE: Stanford housing - jacket3ree - 06-04-2024
I don't know. Shitty and unpredictable housing is part of college and prepares one for shitty and unpredictable housing while adulting.
I left the ice on walls in winter and not sure what that is on the shag carpet comforts of a twin bed three feet from my brother's twin bed for, in order:
A room at the Rainbow Motel along with several oil field dudes, one of whom lost all clothing in transit and rocked a single pair of underwear the entire summer. He had a wicked mix tape though. Best music ever recorded. A lot of shady business at the old Rainbow. Shady. Rattlesnakes sneaking yesterday's heat right in front of the doors too. Watch your first step, Casey Jones.
A small by small cinderblock cell dorm room without working AC shared with revolving roommates in the ATL. It did overlook a matching room in the women's dorm across the way, and that room had AC has I found out one spectacular late spring evening. First roommate: the worst good old boy you will ever meet. Slept with an eye open. Second roommate: some dude from Saudi Arabia. Better. Third roommate: Jay from Boston. Jay spent all his time at his girlfriend's room, wherever that was. Never met her. Cool. Room to myself. Fourth roommate: Never will forget his doughy head, but the name escapes me. I pretended to spend all my time at a non-existent girlfriend's room, wherever that wasn't. He was a scold. I'd stager home after a week somewhere else. "Where the hell have you been?" (Dude, are we married?) I was on the west side of campus for only a year.
A similarly small cinderblock and steel framed room shared with roommates, mutual best men in later weddings, and godfathers of my children. A D.U.M.P. But our dump and that AC Ralph, uh, found, kept it an ice locker. We weren't about to give up our corner room with an active waterfall every time it rained, no matter how cramped and derelict. Room "signups" meant armoring ourselves, getting pushed down the hall in stolen shopping carts and beating the shit out of each other while AC/DC blared over the house speakers, then falling into drunken Louie Louie stupors while stopping the collective bleeding. But we stayed in Room 8 by god. Good times! My mother visited us once. She openly cried. Probably because Ralph was breaking down his motorcycle and two-cycle oil was all over the shag. Toilets without stalls. Came in handy a few times. I won a major award at our winter formal because of that once. Still have the plaque somewhere. Rat patrol nightly. Room 8 was a repeat winner. I think we had ten pelts on our door one night. Endless cockroaches, but I wouldn't trade those memories for anything. Or all the stuff I don't remember.
No complaints about the field crew barracks in Yellowstone NP despite the filthy iron skillets the trail crew always left behind. Those went out back with the bears and moose. Duct tape on the door meant....well, duct tape on the door was respected.
I was a(n Escondido) Village Person at Stanford. A guy from Kuwait with the best Santana collection I've ever heard. Worked out well. I didn't even say anything when he found out what the American phonebook meant by "massage". "Oh hey, you're here with Hammad, huh?" She started giving prices and I just said, "Hammad's a good dude. Check out all that Santana."
Real job now and off to the "Swamp" in Mountain View to live the bachelor life until we all dispersed, then to a wretched dump by the Wagon Wheel on Middlefield, then back up to Palo Alto on College Avenue to survive Loma Prieta, then my first house and first (and only) wife where I actually have skin (dollars, blood, sweat, and tears) in the game. Started with a 10 and 7/8 percent loan. Two kids, two grandkids, and probably four refis later, we just about own some super overpriced real estate on the Peninsula outright.
I think her use of "disastrous" is a bit hyperbolic. Get used to it kids.
RE: Stanford housing - 2006alum - 06-04-2024
(06-04-2024, 06:28 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: I don't know. Shitty and unpredictable housing is part of college and prepares one for shitty and unpredictable housing while adulting.
I left the ice on walls in winter and not sure what that is on the shag carpet comforts of a twin bed three feet from my brother's twin bed for, in order:
A room at the Rainbow Motel along with several oil field dudes, one of whom lost all clothing in transit and rocked a single pair of underwear the entire summer. He had a wicked mix tape though. Best music ever recorded. A lot of shady business at the old Rainbow. Shady. Rattlesnakes sneaking yesterday's heat right in front of the doors too. Watch your first step, Casey Jones.
A small by small cinderblock cell dorm room without working AC shared with revolving roommates in the ATL. It did overlook a matching room in the women's dorm across the way, and that room had AC has I found out one spectacular late spring evening. First roommate: the worst good old boy you will ever meet. Slept with an eye open. Second roommate: some dude from Saudi Arabia. Better. Third roommate: Jay from Boston. Jay spent all his time at his girlfriend's room, wherever that was. Never met her. Cool. Room to myself. Fourth roommate: Never will forget his doughy head, but the name escapes me. I pretended to spend all my time at a non-existent girlfriend's room, wherever that wasn't. He was a scold. I'd stager home after a week somewhere else. "Where the hell have you been?" (Dude, are we married?) I was on the west side of campus for only a year.
A similarly small cinderblock and steel framed room shared with roommates, mutual best men in later weddings, and godfathers of my children. A D.U.M.P. But our dump and that AC Ralph, uh, found, kept it an ice locker. We weren't about to give up our corner room with an active waterfall every time it rained, no matter how cramped and derelict. Room "signups" meant armoring ourselves, getting pushed down the hall in stolen shopping carts and beating the shit out of each other while AC/DC blared over the house speakers, then falling into drunken Louie Louie stupors while stopping the collective bleeding. But we stayed in Room 8 by god. Good times! My mother visited us once. She openly cried. Probably because Ralph was breaking down his motorcycle and two-cycle oil was all over the shag. Toilets without stalls. Came in handy a few times. I won a major award at our winter formal because of that once. Still have the plaque somewhere. Rat patrol nightly. Room 8 was a repeat winner. I think we had ten pelts on our door one night. Endless cockroaches, but I wouldn't trade those memories for anything. Or all the stuff I don't remember.
No complaints about the field crew barracks in Yellowstone NP despite the filthy iron skillets the trail crew always left behind. Those went out back with the bears and moose. Duct tape on the door meant....well, duct tape on the door was respected.
I was a(n Escondido) Village Person at Stanford. A guy from Kuwait with the best Santana collection I've ever heard. Worked out well. I didn't even say anything when he found out what the American phonebook meant by "massage". "Oh hey, you're here with Hammad, huh?" She started giving prices and I just said, "Hammad's a good dude. Check out all that Santana."
Real job now and off to the "Swamp" in Mountain View to live the bachelor life until we all dispersed, then to a wretched dump by the Wagon Wheel on Middlefield, then back up to Palo Alto on College Avenue to survive Loma Prieta, then my first house and first (and only) wife where I actually have skin (dollars, blood, sweat, and tears) in the game. Started with a 10 and 7/8 percent loan. Two kids, two grandkids, and probably four refis later, we just about own some super overpriced real estate on the Peninsula outright.
I think her use of "disastrous" is a bit hyperbolic. Get used to it kids.
This is such a great post, thank you. Maybe it's a sign I've truly hit middle age, but her op-ed fell on deaf ears. Oh no, Roble quads are back to being triples or quads! What. A. Disaster. Learning to thrive without being able to perfectly curate every aspect of your life is a key lesson on the path to #adulting. The semester I came back from a BOP I had no guaranteed housing, and I ended up with my best roommates and a room on the row. Sometimes unchosen paths can be the best ones. I hope NIL money doesn't mean 18-year-olds get to immunize themselves from life's lessons just because they can throw a ball through a hoop.
RE: Stanford housing - Mick - 06-05-2024
(06-04-2024, 08:06 PM)2006alum Wrote:(06-04-2024, 06:28 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: I don't know. Shitty and unpredictable housing is part of college and prepares one for shitty and unpredictable housing while adulting.
I left the ice on walls in winter and not sure what that is on the shag carpet comforts of a twin bed three feet from my brother's twin bed for, in order:
A room at the Rainbow Motel along with several oil field dudes, one of whom lost all clothing in transit and rocked a single pair of underwear the entire summer. He had a wicked mix tape though. Best music ever recorded. A lot of shady business at the old Rainbow. Shady. Rattlesnakes sneaking yesterday's heat right in front of the doors too. Watch your first step, Casey Jones.
A small by small cinderblock cell dorm room without working AC shared with revolving roommates in the ATL. It did overlook a matching room in the women's dorm across the way, and that room had AC has I found out one spectacular late spring evening. First roommate: the worst good old boy you will ever meet. Slept with an eye open. Second roommate: some dude from Saudi Arabia. Better. Third roommate: Jay from Boston. Jay spent all his time at his girlfriend's room, wherever that was. Never met her. Cool. Room to myself. Fourth roommate: Never will forget his doughy head, but the name escapes me. I pretended to spend all my time at a non-existent girlfriend's room, wherever that wasn't. He was a scold. I'd stager home after a week somewhere else. "Where the hell have you been?" (Dude, are we married?) I was on the west side of campus for only a year.
A similarly small cinderblock and steel framed room shared with roommates, mutual best men in later weddings, and godfathers of my children. A D.U.M.P. But our dump and that AC Ralph, uh, found, kept it an ice locker. We weren't about to give up our corner room with an active waterfall every time it rained, no matter how cramped and derelict. Room "signups" meant armoring ourselves, getting pushed down the hall in stolen shopping carts and beating the shit out of each other while AC/DC blared over the house speakers, then falling into drunken Louie Louie stupors while stopping the collective bleeding. But we stayed in Room 8 by god. Good times! My mother visited us once. She openly cried. Probably because Ralph was breaking down his motorcycle and two-cycle oil was all over the shag. Toilets without stalls. Came in handy a few times. I won a major award at our winter formal because of that once. Still have the plaque somewhere. Rat patrol nightly. Room 8 was a repeat winner. I think we had ten pelts on our door one night. Endless cockroaches, but I wouldn't trade those memories for anything. Or all the stuff I don't remember.
No complaints about the field crew barracks in Yellowstone NP despite the filthy iron skillets the trail crew always left behind. Those went out back with the bears and moose. Duct tape on the door meant....well, duct tape on the door was respected.
I was a(n Escondido) Village Person at Stanford. A guy from Kuwait with the best Santana collection I've ever heard. Worked out well. I didn't even say anything when he found out what the American phonebook meant by "massage". "Oh hey, you're here with Hammad, huh?" She started giving prices and I just said, "Hammad's a good dude. Check out all that Santana."
Real job now and off to the "Swamp" in Mountain View to live the bachelor life until we all dispersed, then to a wretched dump by the Wagon Wheel on Middlefield, then back up to Palo Alto on College Avenue to survive Loma Prieta, then my first house and first (and only) wife where I actually have skin (dollars, blood, sweat, and tears) in the game. Started with a 10 and 7/8 percent loan. Two kids, two grandkids, and probably four refis later, we just about own some super overpriced real estate on the Peninsula outright.
I think her use of "disastrous" is a bit hyperbolic. Get used to it kids.
This is such a great post, thank you. Maybe it's a sign I've truly hit middle age, but her op-ed fell on deaf ears. Oh no, Roble quads are back to being triples or quads! What. A. Disaster. Learning to thrive without being able to perfectly curate every aspect of your life is a key lesson on the path to #adulting. The semester I came back from a BOP I had no guaranteed housing, and I ended up with my best roommates and a room on the row. Sometimes unchosen paths can be the best ones. I hope NIL money doesn't mean 18-year-olds get to immunize themselves from life's lessons just because they can throw a ball through a hoop.
Terrific post. Agreed, the writer sounds entitled AF to use their generation's terminology. Most dorm rooms suck, are overcrowded, etc., more Animal/Delta House than Delta Tau Chi.
RE: Stanford housing - WindyCityCard - 06-16-2024
Following up on my earlier post, here's an interesting recent article about the housing assignment process. It seems that there are a lot of slots assigned to students with disability accommodations, along with their draw group members.
https://stanfordreview.org/stanfords-rigged-housing-accommodations/