WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - Printable Version

WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - Printable Version

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WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - BobK - 02-26-2023

The bracket

https://pac-12.com/womens-basketball-tournament-2023

Hate to miss. My first to miss in 8-9 years

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - 2006alum - 02-26-2023

Not bad. All the teams I view as most dangerous to us - and 2 of our 3 Pac-12 losses - are on the other side (U$C, Colorado, and Utah). Plus Zona is slumping.

Just got to watch out for Oregon. Pao Pao is coming back into her own just in time, and Oregon will be motivated because two wins in the tournament are almost surely necessary for them to dance.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - 81alum - 02-26-2023

I would not be at all surprised if Washington defeats Oregon and we get a rematch with the team that defeated us in Seattle. Or a resurgent Oregon. Either way, the first game is no gimme, at all.

The 2nd game gives no rest or time to prepare. It might turn out to be UCLA, which has played us tough twice already--and it is hard to beat a school 3 times. Although I wonder if Arizona is saying, "glad we are in Stanford's bracket, they are slumping and Utah is heating up."

Then, if we are so fortunate to get past those, we probably will have a rematch with Utah, although one never knows whether a defensive team like Colorado or USC might knock them off. If Utah again, we will be better off than yesterday, since it will be on a neutral court, at lower elevation, on a full day's rest, and with a week to mull over how to improve. On the other hand, they may play with increased confidence, too, and Pili could have a much better day than she did last time. It would be a coin flip, and I don't like coin flips.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - BosCard - 02-26-2023

(02-26-2023, 09:55 AM)81alum Wrote: I would not be at all surprised if Washington defeats Oregon and we get a rematch with the team that defeated us in Seattle. Or a resurgent Oregon. Either way, the first game is no gimme, at all.

The 2nd game gives no rest or time to prepare. It might turn out to be UCLA, which has played us tough twice already--and it is hard to beat a school 3 times. Although I wonder if Arizona is saying, "glad we are in Stanford's bracket, they are slumping and Utah is heating up."

Then, if we are so fortunate to get past those, we probably will have a rematch with Utah, although one never knows whether a defensive team like Colorado or USC might knock them off. If Utah again, we will be better off than yesterday, since it will be on a neutral court, at lower elevation, on a full day's rest, and with a week to mull over how to improve. On the other hand, they may play with increased confidence, too, and Pili could have a much better day than she did last time. It would be a coin flip, and I don't like coin flips.

Whether it’s USC or Colorado vs Utah, sadly the refs will be the ones that decide the game. Against us those teams mauled our posts and the refs swallowed their whistles. If that is how they ref then Utah will lose. Or they could give Utah the benefit of every call and give them 50 points from the free throw line in which case Utah blows out either team.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - Card10Fan - 02-27-2023

Listening to the ESPN announcers for the Baylor/TX game. Debbie Antonelli was very confident that the Pac12 will NOT have two number 1 seeds when brackets released. She said winner of Pac12 tourney gets #1 seed, loser a #2 and that she thinks a second Big10 team will end up in that last spot as the Big10 is the stronger conference overall. Not saying she has any insight but I don’t necessarily thinks she’s wrong. I could see Iowa or Maryland moving up and ahead depending on their tourney showing. She joked Tara will be texting her to protest after she made those remakes.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - Jskass - 02-27-2023

As long as they put both teams into different Seattle regionals so both can win!

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - Hoops9092 - 02-28-2023

(02-27-2023, 07:14 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: Listening to the ESPN announcers for the Baylor/TX game. Debbie Antonelli was very confident that the Pac12 will NOT have two number 1 seeds when brackets released. She said winner of Pac12 tourney gets #1 seed, loser a #2 and that she thinks a second Big10 team will end up in that last spot as the Big10 is the stronger conference overall. Not saying she has any insight but I don’t necessarily thinks she’s wrong. I could see Iowa or Maryland moving up and ahead depending on their tourney showing. She joked Tara will be texting her to protest after she made those remakes.

I think she could be right. I, too, hope Stanford and Utah are in separate brackets but this reminds me of the year when we were upset by Georgia in the Sweet 16 and they had put Stanford as the #1 seed and Cal as the #2 seed in the Sacramento bracket.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - 81alum - 02-28-2023

What would happen if both Stanford and Utah fail to reach the Pac 12 finals? Would they knock us both down to 2 seeds?

At this point I think we need to win the Pac 12 tourney, not so much for seeding although that would help, but to establish confidence and begin to make opponents fear us again. I think other, lesser teams will sense we are vulnerable until we recover. I'd like to start off by beating Washington and finish up by beating Utah, to answer all the issues.

But of course, all that presumes we do have answers, and this season has been an odd one in many ways. Certainly not as bad a season as quite a few others in terms of wins and losses, but it has lacked the steady progression and improvement that we are so used to seeing from Tara's teams. We can hope that starts to manifest itself on Thursday. I would love to see some dominant wins--we are past the point of benefiting from close games. But it is a mark of the times that I don't really expect that.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - treetop11 - 02-28-2023

(02-28-2023, 12:19 PM)81alum Wrote: What would happen if both Stanford and Utah fail to reach the Pac 12 finals? Would they knock us both down to 2 seeds?

At this point I think we need to win the Pac 12 tourney, not so much for seeding although that would help, but to establish confidence and begin to make opponents fear us again. I think other, lesser teams will sense we are vulnerable until we recover. I'd like to start off by beating Washington and finish up by beating Utah, to answer all the issues.

But of course, all that presumes we do have answers, and this season has been an odd one in many ways. Certainly not as bad a season as quite a few others in terms of wins and losses, but it has lacked the steady progression and improvement that we are so used to seeing from Tara's teams. We can hope that starts to manifest itself on Thursday. I would love to see some dominant wins--we are past the point of benefiting from close games. But it is a mark of the times that I don't really expect that.

Keep in mind, the previous two years we finished the season with most all games at home except for playing the Oregon schools away and the Oregon games each year were very close. This year we played mostly away games down the stretch. The comfort of Maples and lack of travel helped make those teams look improved late.

Brink and Jones aren't going to be much better than when the season started, although it can be argued that Brink's FT shooting is far better late and that both Brink and Jones stepped up in late season games to lead us to tough W's. Jump has returned more to early season form lately. Tara has discovered Betts and Nivar as contributors off the bench. Demetre has improved. Emma-Nnopu has improved with her offense especially from 3 point. Players who haven't seem to improve include Prechtel, Belibi, Bosgana, and Iriafen.

Overall, our D hasn't seem to have changed much - it's been excellent all year. Only Utah in the last game overcame our D and I suspect that besides Utah's great offense, we were tired and D requires energy. Our O has been consistent in terms of points scored and when over 70 pts. we have only lost to South Carolina and Utah, both potential/likely #1 seeds and both losses close.

So I would say that we have improved over the season or at worse been about the same and pretty consistent. What I think you sense as different is that Tara still hasn't been able to come up with an every game starting line up and rotation - something that makes you feel comfortable when push comes to shove will step up and win games. It's been a bit of a crap shoot particularly with who comes off the bench. I don't think we will see anything different through the post season or maybe next year. It's clear that our most glaring weakness is the guard positions. On D, Lepolo/Nivar and Jump are good defenders and above average, but they aren't the lockdown steal bandits like we saw with Anna or the Hulls or opponents like Sherrod, Pellington, and others. On O, Jump is a prolific scorer, but doesn't do much off the dribble and penetrate. Lepolo and Nivar are quicker and occasionally drive well, but more often than not, don't. Lepolo flies up the court in transition, but Nivar has a quicker first few steps. Bottom line is that we have good guard play, but not all around elite play from one or both positions.

This tranlates to less fast break points from steals by guards and breakaways or steals/reboounds by others with guards quickly out in transition. So we aren't getting as many easy points as we would like. In half court O, we know that teams have figured out that if they have their best perimeter defender blanket Jump, they can pack the paint and leave open others at the 3 pt line. Between the sagging and Lepolo/Jump/Nivar inability or reluctance to drive and penetrate, it limits our offensive options and flow. We have to really move on O and try to get the D out of position for good shots or lesser threats than Jump hitting threes. Lately, others have stepped up with threes and it helped through that last tough 6 games.

Regardless, our guards are not suddenly going to become super all around elite players this year. Our formula for winning is to feed the post and rely largely on Brink and Jones whcih opens it up for our other players. I would argue that had not we been worn down by the tough late schedule and travel, we win at Utah and sweep all those tough last 6 games. Our O was pretty good at Utah minus silly turnovers (possibly also due to fatigue). It was our D that failed. It seemed like Utah was able to score at will or respond whenever we made a run. I don't think we had the energy to turn them over or force bad shots when we needed stops. This will change starting with the P12 tournament where circumstances will be more equal.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - Griffins78 - 02-28-2023

I have two extra tickets in Section 108 Row D that I’m going to sell but prefer a Stanford fan buy them. PM me if you’re interested

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - 81alum - 02-28-2023

(02-28-2023, 01:12 PM)treetop11 Wrote:
(02-28-2023, 12:19 PM)81alum Wrote: What would happen if both Stanford and Utah fail to reach the Pac 12 finals? Would they knock us both down to 2 seeds?

At this point I think we need to win the Pac 12 tourney, not so much for seeding although that would help, but to establish confidence and begin to make opponents fear us again. I think other, lesser teams will sense we are vulnerable until we recover. I'd like to start off by beating Washington and finish up by beating Utah, to answer all the issues.

But of course, all that presumes we do have answers, and this season has been an odd one in many ways. Certainly not as bad a season as quite a few others in terms of wins and losses, but it has lacked the steady progression and improvement that we are so used to seeing from Tara's teams. We can hope that starts to manifest itself on Thursday. I would love to see some dominant wins--we are past the point of benefiting from close games. But it is a mark of the times that I don't really expect that.

Keep in mind, the previous two years we finished the season with most all games at home except for playing the Oregon schools away and the Oregon ggames each year were very close. This year we played mostly away games down the stretch. The comfort of Maples and lack of travel helped make those teams look improved late.

Brink and Jones aren't going to be much better than when the season started, although it can be argued that Brink's FT shooting is far better late and that both Brink and Jones stepped up in late season games to lead us to tough W's. Jump has returned more to early season form lately. Tara has discovered Betts and Nivar as contributors off the bench. Demetre has improved. Emma-Nnopu has improved with her offense especially from 3 point. Players who haven't seem to improve include Prechtel, Belibi, Bosgana, and Iriafen.

I really am hoping for Washington and Utah. Not sure who to hope for in game 2. I'd like to see the Pac 12 tourney be a revenge tour. It might ignite our team.

Overall, our D hasn't seem to have changed much - it's been excellent all year. Only Utah in the last game overcame our D and I suspect that besides Utah's great offense, we were tired and D requires energy. Our O has been consistent in terms of points scored and when over 70 pts. we have only lost to South Carolina and Utah, both potential/likely #1 seeds and both losses close.

So I would say that we have improved over the season or at worse been about the same and pretty consistent. What I think you sense as different is that Tara still hasn't been able to come up with an every game starting line up and rotation - something that makes you feel comfortable when push comes to shove will step up and win games. It's been a bit of a crap shoot particularly with who comes off the bench. I don't think we will see anthing different through the post season or mybe next year. It's clear that our most glaring weakness is the guard positions. On D, Lepolo/Nivar and Jump are good defenders and above average, but they aren't the lockdown steal bandits like we saw with Anna or the Hulls or opponents like Sherrod, Pellington, and others. On O, Jump is a prolific scorer, but doesn't do much off the dribble and penetrate. Lepolo and Nivar are quicker and occasionally drive well, bot more often than not, don't. Lepolo flies up the court in transition, but Nivar has a quicker first few steps. Bottom line is that we have good guard play, but not all around elite play from one or both positions.

This tranlates to less fast break points from steals by guards and breakaways or steals/reboounds by others with guards quickly out in transition. So we aren't getting as many easy points as we would like. In half court O, we know that teams have figured out that if they have their best perimeter defender blanket Jump, they can pack the paint and leave open others at the 3 pt line. Between the sagging and Lepolo/Jump/Nivar inability or reluctance to drive and penetrate, it limits our offensive options and flow. We have to really move on O and try to get the D out of position for good shots ot lesser threats than Jump hitting threes. Lately, others have stepped up with threes and it helped through that last tough 6 games.

Regardless, our guards are suddenly going to become super all around elite players this year. Our formula for winning is to feed the post and rely largely on Brink and Jones whcih opens it up for our other players. I would argue that had not we been worn down by the tough late schedule and travel, we win at Utah and sweep all those tough last 6 games. Our O was pretty good at Utah minus silly turnovers (possibly also due to fatigue). It was our D that failed. It seemed like Utah was able to score at will or respond whenever we made a run. I don't think we had the energy to turn them over or force bad shots when we needed stops. This will change starting with the P12 tournament where circumstances will be more equal.

Treetop, I really appreciate your analysis, and your optimism. You've bucked up my spirits!

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - BostonCard - 02-28-2023

(02-27-2023, 07:14 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: Listening to the ESPN announcers for the Baylor/TX game. Debbie Antonelli was very confident that the Pac12 will NOT have two number 1 seeds when brackets released. She said winner of Pac12 tourney gets #1 seed, loser a #2 and that she thinks a second Big10 team will end up in that last spot as the Big10 is the stronger conference overall. Not saying she has any insight but I don’t necessarily thinks she’s wrong. I could see Iowa or Maryland moving up and ahead depending on their tourney showing. She joked Tara will be texting her to protest after she made those remakes.

All are possible. Basically, there are three conferences vying for four spots, with the B1G having three teams (Indiana, Maryland, and Iowa) who could conceivably stake a claim to a #1 seed, the SEC having two (South Carolina, LSU), and the Pac-12 having two (Utah, Stanford).

The way I see it, there is one lock for a #1 seed (and the overall #1 seed): South Carolina. Indiana is a near lock, and I think it would take an early round upset for them not to be a #1 seed. I think that if Utah or Stanford wins the Pac-12 tournament, the Pac-12 champion will be a third #1 seed. That leaves the fourth #1 seed. If LSU wins the SEC championship, I think that's your fourth #1. Assuming they don't win the SEC championship, that opens the door for Maryland or Iowa if they can beat Indiana (or otherwise win the Big-Ten championship). If seeding holds otherwise, and South Carolina wins the SEC, and Indiana wins the Big-Ten, and both Stanford and Utah make it to the Pac-12 final, it is possible that the loser of the Stanford/Utah final is the fourth #1 seed, and that the Big-Ten finals loser (presuming it is Maryland or Iowa) is left as the top #2 seed.

Interestingly, by NET ratings, South Carolina and LSU are 1/2, Stanford is 33 (even after the loss), Indiana is #4, UConn is #5, Notre Dame is $6, Utah is #7, and Iowa is #8. Maryland isn't in the top-10 in NET (they are #13), so maybe they don't have a chance at a #1 seed, even if they win the Big-Ten tournament.

BC

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - 2006alum - 02-28-2023

Yes, Treetop, that was great, and spot on. And a very balanced and even-handed assessment with respect to both our strong but not amazing guards and therefore Tara's need to alter substitution patterns on a game by game basis. I have given up thinking there's a better solution than the one she has come up with, given our personnel. I do think that puts a ceiling on our likely season end (probably final four), but hope springs eternal, and it's still an extremely likeable and outstanding team.

Also, for all Lepolo has been dragged around here, it's indicative of her value to us that she made Pac-12 all-frosh.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - old spanish trail - 03-01-2023

Excellent post, Treetop. And, I'm with you on Lepolo, 2006.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - martyup - 03-01-2023

UCLA and ASU are tied with 1:27 to play.

Still tied with 12 seconds to play. ASU ball. ASU was down 19 in the 3rd Q.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - CompSci87 - 03-01-2023

Wow, ASU came back from down 12 or more, and it's going to overtime.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - martyup - 03-01-2023

UCLA outscored ASU 19-8 in OT to advance. This was only the 5th overtime game in Pac-12 WBB history.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - BosCard - 03-01-2023

(03-01-2023, 03:24 PM)martyup Wrote: UCLA outscored ASU 19-8 in OT to advance. This was only the 5th overtime game in Pac-12 WBB history.

Whatever people want to say about our close wins, we are not alone, it’s something the whole conference faces. So either we are all bad or there are no easy games in conference. UCLA is the 19th ranked team in the country. They are the tournament 5 seed, ASU is the lowest seed (12). ASU is 1-17 in conference. Yet the game went to OT.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - martyup - 03-01-2023

We just might get our chance to avenge our loss to UW. They are leading OR at the half.

I'd love to see us take down the Huskies and the Utes in this tourney.

RE: WBB: The Pac 12 tournament - mbdude - 03-01-2023

If popao and Roger's stay hot gonna be tough matchup
14 of oregons 20 fgs