WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - Printable Version

WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - Printable Version

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WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - BobK - 09-06-2021

https://www.stanfordfbc.org/

My first story of the year. On the Fast Break Club Site, upper right front page

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - 81alum - 09-06-2021

Thanks Bob, as always, for the superb previews you do of the competition.

Arizona looks scary this year. True, they lost McDonald, but the talent coming in from transfer and recruitment is considerable. Taylor Chavez from Oregon will give them a better 3 point threat than they had before, the Vandy and Alabama transfers are strong, and the Estonian looks like a sharpshooter. They may be our toughest competition this year--especially if we play at their place.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - crackpot - 09-06-2021

Sounds pretty scary. Thanks, Bobbk!

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - mbdude - 09-06-2021

Obviously biggest problem will be point guard. I dont think Chavez is the answer - don't remember her playing any PG at Oregon ; they had Ionescu and Cazorla .

Baez87 - Baez87 - 09-06-2021

(09-06-2021, 05:30 PM)mbdude Wrote: Obviously biggest problem will be point guard. I dont think Chavez is the answer - don't remember her playing any PG at Oregon ; they had Ionescu and Cazorla .

That’s probably what Kelly Graves thought and probably why Chavez transferred. It will be interesting to see how she develops under Adia Barnes. I suspect she will do well, and I agree with others that Arizona will be a handful this year!

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - martyup - 09-07-2021

I'm glad Stanford has a really tough schedule early in the season. As the reining National Champions, the ultimate goal should be to repeat. To do this, Stanford will need to be ready to compete against the best teams in the pressure cooker of the Big Dance. Stanford does not need to be ranked number 1 overall, so long as they can hold onto a 1 seed in their tourney bracket. That means they can afford an early season loss or two.

Stanford came too close to losing in the NCAA tourney to both South Carolina and Arizona. This season I would like to see them come into the post season case hardened and ready to take on the best. In their repeat, let them leave no doubt in anyone's mind which team is the best. Six dominating wins and cut down the nets.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - BobK - 09-07-2021

Winning those last two game and the title is the very definition of hardened. Plus there is no doubt we are the best team. We won.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - teejers1 - 09-07-2021

(09-07-2021, 10:14 AM)martyup Wrote: I'm glad Stanford has a really tough schedule early in the season. As the reining National Champions, the ultimate goal should be to repeat. To do this, Stanford will need to be ready to compete against the best teams in the pressure cooker of the Big Dance. Stanford does not need to be ranked number 1 overall, so long as they can hold onto a 1 seed in their tourney bracket. That means they can afford an early season loss or two.

Stanford came too close to losing in the NCAA tourney to both South Carolina and Arizona. This season I would like to see them come into the post season case hardened and ready to take on the best. In their repeat, let them leave no doubt in anyone's mind which team is the best. Six dominating wins and cut down the nets.

It will be very hard to have "dominating" NCAA Tourney wins without a really good and effective PG. Kiana was a great PG who did not play great in the latter stages of the tourney. Think how good and comfortable the NCAA games would have been with Ki playing at the level we know she could have. (As it was, it took heroics by Prechtel to even get to the FF, and some excellent play by Haley Jones in FF (along with very good play by Lexie) for Stanford to (barely) cut down the nets. I don't think any guards on the team now are at Ki's level; thus, I don't think dominant wins in the tourney is a reasonable expectation (the guard play at some of the elite schools is going to be off the charts next season).

Now, it may be that some combination of Anna Wilson, the Northwestern transfer, and Jana VanG can be sufficiently good to keep Stanford in contention against the best, by allowing Stanford to flex its considerable muscle at the 3-5 spots (where I think Stanford can be significantly better than its opponents) and win games. Brink will be a dominant post - hell she already has shown that ability on the court. But dominance at the post, particularly the 5, does not easily translate to dominant Tourney wins. For that you need uber elite guard play . . . and it's hard to see that on this roster.

Or to put it in much simpler terms: I think there was a reason Tara made a spot available for the NW transfer. She knows that certain teams have elite guards and Stanford will need to play D on them to have a shot to repeat.

P.S. Bob, I do think Stanford was the overall best team last season; but winning the tourney games doesn't automatically make that so. The better team loses all the time in the NCAA tourney, as you well know.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - Maple Leaf - 09-07-2021

(09-07-2021, 11:32 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 10:14 AM)martyup Wrote: I'm glad Stanford has a really tough schedule early in the season. As the reining National Champions, the ultimate goal should be to repeat. To do this, Stanford will need to be ready to compete against the best teams in the pressure cooker of the Big Dance. Stanford does not need to be ranked number 1 overall, so long as they can hold onto a 1 seed in their tourney bracket. That means they can afford an early season loss or two.

Stanford came too close to losing in the NCAA tourney to both South Carolina and Arizona. This season I would like to see them come into the post season case hardened and ready to take on the best. In their repeat, let them leave no doubt in anyone's mind which team is the best. Six dominating wins and cut down the nets.

It will be very hard to have "dominating" NCAA Tourney wins without a really good and effective PG. Kiana was a great PG who did not play great in the latter stages of the tourney. Think how good and comfortable the NCAA games would have been with Ki playing at the level we know she could have. (As it was, it took heroics by Prechtel to even get to the FF, and some excellent play by Haley Jones in FF (along with very good play by Lexie) for Stanford to (barely) cut down the nets. I don't think any guards on the team now are at Ki's level; thus, I don't think dominant wins in the tourney is a reasonable expectation (the guard play at some of the elite schools is going to be off the charts next season).

Now, it may be that some combination of Anna Wilson, the Northwestern transfer, and Jana VanG can be sufficiently good to keep Stanford in contention against the best, by allowing Stanford to flex its considerable muscle at the 3-5 spots (where I think Stanford can be significantly better than its opponents) and win games. Brink will be a dominant post - hell she already has shown that ability on the court. But dominance at the post, particularly the 5, does not easily translate to dominant Tourney wins. For that you need uber elite guard play . . . and it's hard to see that on this roster.

Or to put it in much simpler terms: I think there was a reason Tara made a spot available for the NW transfer. She knows that certain teams have elite guards and Stanford will need to play D on them to have a shot to repeat.

P.S. Bob, I do think Stanford was the overall best team last season; but winning the tourney games doesn't automatically make that so. The better team loses all the time in the NCAA tourney, as you well know.

Your observation on guard play is spot on, it seemed that South Caroline's and Arizona's guards had and outstanding NCAA Tournament compared to how they played during the regular season. It is great to have excellent bigs, but guard play both on offense and defense can have the greatest impact on the outcome of a game.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - BostonCard - 09-07-2021

(09-07-2021, 11:32 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 10:14 AM)martyup Wrote: I'm glad Stanford has a really tough schedule early in the season. As the reining National Champions, the ultimate goal should be to repeat. To do this, Stanford will need to be ready to compete against the best teams in the pressure cooker of the Big Dance. Stanford does not need to be ranked number 1 overall, so long as they can hold onto a 1 seed in their tourney bracket. That means they can afford an early season loss or two.

Stanford came too close to losing in the NCAA tourney to both South Carolina and Arizona. This season I would like to see them come into the post season case hardened and ready to take on the best. In their repeat, let them leave no doubt in anyone's mind which team is the best. Six dominating wins and cut down the nets.

It will be very hard to have "dominating" NCAA Tourney wins without a really good and effective PG. Kiana was a great PG who did not play great in the latter stages of the tourney. Think how good and comfortable the NCAA games would have been with Ki playing at the level we know she could have. (As it was, it took heroics by Prechtel to even get to the FF, and some excellent play by Haley Jones in FF (along with very good play by Lexie) for Stanford to (barely) cut down the nets. I don't think any guards on the team now are at Ki's level; thus, I don't think dominant wins in the tourney is a reasonable expectation (the guard play at some of the elite schools is going to be off the charts next season).

Now, it may be that some combination of Anna Wilson, the Northwestern transfer, and Jana VanG can be sufficiently good to keep Stanford in contention against the best, by allowing Stanford to flex its considerable muscle at the 3-5 spots (where I think Stanford can be significantly better than its opponents) and win games. Brink will be a dominant post - hell she already has shown that ability on the court. But dominance at the post, particularly the 5, does not easily translate to dominant Tourney wins. For that you need uber elite guard play . . . and it's hard to see that on this roster.

Or to put it in much simpler terms: I think there was a reason Tara made a spot available for the NW transfer. She knows that certain teams have elite guards and Stanford will need to play D on them to have a shot to repeat.

P.S. Bob, I do think Stanford was the overall best team last season; but winning the tourney games doesn't automatically make that so. The better team loses all the time in the NCAA tourney, as you well know.

I don't think that Tara "made a spot" for the transfer; it became possible when the NCAA waived roster maxima for the 2021 season.

BC

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - teejers1 - 09-07-2021

(09-07-2021, 02:33 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 11:32 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 10:14 AM)martyup Wrote: I'm glad Stanford has a really tough schedule early in the season. As the reining National Champions, the ultimate goal should be to repeat. To do this, Stanford will need to be ready to compete against the best teams in the pressure cooker of the Big Dance. Stanford does not need to be ranked number 1 overall, so long as they can hold onto a 1 seed in their tourney bracket. That means they can afford an early season loss or two.

Stanford came too close to losing in the NCAA tourney to both South Carolina and Arizona. This season I would like to see them come into the post season case hardened and ready to take on the best. In their repeat, let them leave no doubt in anyone's mind which team is the best. Six dominating wins and cut down the nets.

It will be very hard to have "dominating" NCAA Tourney wins without a really good and effective PG. Kiana was a great PG who did not play great in the latter stages of the tourney. Think how good and comfortable the NCAA games would have been with Ki playing at the level we know she could have. (As it was, it took heroics by Prechtel to even get to the FF, and some excellent play by Haley Jones in FF (along with very good play by Lexie) for Stanford to (barely) cut down the nets. I don't think any guards on the team now are at Ki's level; thus, I don't think dominant wins in the tourney is a reasonable expectation (the guard play at some of the elite schools is going to be off the charts next season).

Now, it may be that some combination of Anna Wilson, the Northwestern transfer, and Jana VanG can be sufficiently good to keep Stanford in contention against the best, by allowing Stanford to flex its considerable muscle at the 3-5 spots (where I think Stanford can be significantly better than its opponents) and win games. Brink will be a dominant post - hell she already has shown that ability on the court. But dominance at the post, particularly the 5, does not easily translate to dominant Tourney wins. For that you need uber elite guard play . . . and it's hard to see that on this roster.

Or to put it in much simpler terms: I think there was a reason Tara made a spot available for the NW transfer. She knows that certain teams have elite guards and Stanford will need to play D on them to have a shot to repeat.

P.S. Bob, I do think Stanford was the overall best team last season; but winning the tourney games doesn't automatically make that so. The better team loses all the time in the NCAA tourney, as you well know.

I don't think that Tara "made a spot" for the transfer; it became possible when the NCAA waived roster maxima for the 2021 season.

BC

Okay, how about this: if Tara didn't show some love/interest in having the NW transfer join the Stanford team, then she wouldn't be on this coming season's roster. And she showed the love/interest because Tara knows that certain teams have elite guards and Stanford will need to play D on them to have a shot to repeat.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - BobK - 09-07-2021

I suspect the transfer will be the 3rd Point Guard at the start

I could be wrong but suspect she was accepted by the Stanford Grad school then called and asked to join the team. That’s like the last several grad transfers to Stanford

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - joemontes - 09-07-2021

(09-07-2021, 04:17 PM)BobK Wrote: I suspect the transfer will be the 3rd Point Guard at the start

I could be wrong but suspect she was accepted by the Stanford Grad school then called and asked to join the team. That’s like the last several grad transfers to Stanford

Pre-season, based on returning players and incoming additions, I put defending National Champion Stanford as a close 3rd to fellow Final Four participants UConn and South Carolina who I feel are locked at a virtual tie for 1st. These three teams comprise the upper echelon, with Arizona and a few other teams comprising the 2nd echelon.

UConn:
*****
- returns its top 7 players from last season's Final Four team (Page BEUCKERS, Christyn WILLIAMS, Olivia NELSON-ODADA, Aaliyah EDWARDS, Evina WESTBROOK, Audrey GRIFFIN, Nika MUHL);
- was able to snag one of the top transfers in 6'5 Grad Dorka JUHASZ from Ohio State (averaged a double-double with 14.6 ppg and 11.1 rpg);
- has the 2nd best incoming freshman class (which includes McD AAs #1 Azzi FUDD, #5 Caroline DECHARME, #15 Amari DEBERRY).

South Carolina:
************
- returns its top 7 players from last season's Final Four team (Zia COOKE, Aailiyah BOSTON, Destani HENDERSON, Victoria SAXTON, Bria BEAL, Leticia AMIHERE, Lele GRISETT);
- was able to snag one of the top transfers in 6'7 sophomore Kamila CARDOSO from Syracuse (with impressive freshman average stats of 13.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, and 2.7 bpg);
- has the top incoming freshman class (which includes McD AAs #2 Raven JOHNSON, #3 Saniya RIVERS, #4 Sania FEAGIN)

Stanford:
*******
- returns 11 of their 12 players from last season's National Championship team, except for top scorer Kiana WILLIAMS, whose 14.0 ppg, 3.0 apg, 1.3 spg, and 82 3-pointers made will be missed
- returns former McD AA Jenna BROWN, who missed last season due to injury
- was able to snag a good PG graduate transfer in 5'8 Jordan HAMILTON from Northwestern (with senior year average stats of 9.0 ppg, 3.2 apg, 1.7 spg)
- has the 6th best incoming freshman class (which includes McD AAs #11 Brooke DEMETRE and #19 Kiki IRIAFEN)

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - 81alum - 09-07-2021

While the particular players are vastly different, next year's team--with truly elite inside play and merely very good outside play--may be somewhat like some of those Nneka/Chiney teams. How about the 11-12 team, for example:
Top 5 mpg:

Nneka
Toni Kokenis
Chiney
Joslyn Tinkle
Lindy LaRocque

Kokenis and LaRocque were very good players, Kokenis had a particularly good year before her injuries began. But no one would say that those two were elite players. Nneka and Chiney were obviously elite players.

How did it work out? We were 35-2, losing early at UConn and then going undefeated until losing to Griner and Baylor in the semifinals. That kind of team worked very well in the triangle, where all the guards really had to do was get the ball inside to the Ogwumikes.

The Princeton, in contrast, is better suited to a whole lot of equally talented, almost interchangeable players. I wonder if Tara will install something new on offense given her players. Will be interesting to see.

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - joemontes - 09-08-2021

(09-06-2021, 09:02 AM)81alum Wrote: Thanks Bob, as always, for the superb previews you do of the competition.

Arizona looks scary this year. True, they lost McDonald, but the talent coming in from transfer and recruitment is considerable. Taylor Chavez from Oregon will give them a better 3 point threat than they had before, the Vandy and Alabama transfers are strong, and the Estonian looks like a sharpshooter. They may be our toughest competition this year--especially if we play at their place.

Although Arizona has acquired a number of very respectable talents through the transfer portal, I am not convinced that they are a Final Four contender for the forthcoming season. Mainly because, you got it, they lost Ari McDONALD, who pretty much controlled every aspect of the Wildcats full throttle assault to the National Championship match last season.

For the entirety of last season, McDONALD led the Wildcats in Total Points, 2-pt FGs made, 3-pt FGs made, FTs made, Assists, and Steals, and was 2nd in Rebounds (only to Trinity BAPTISTE who is also not anymore with the team). She accounted for 1/3 of the Wildcats' total points, total 3-pointers made, and total FTs made. She also accounted for 1/3 of the Wildcats total assists and 1/4 of the Wildcats' total steals. She directly had a hand, either by scoring or assisting, in 46% of the Wildcats' total points. That's A LOT!

In the Wildcats' 6-game run to the NCAA Tournament National Championship game, McDONALD even upped the ante, as she accounted for 40% of the Wildcat's Total Points, 46% of the Wildcats' 3-pt FGs made, and 50% of the Wildcats' FTs made. And she registered a Double-Double in Total Points and Total Rebounds TWICE. Simply put, without McDONALD, the Wildcats' wouldn't have gone past the 2nd Round of the NCAA Tournament. With all due respect to Haley JONES whose game I absolutely admire and adore, I would have given the NCAA Tournament MVP to McDONALD.

So who will replace the full throttle engine of the combined package of (1) court general, (2) scoring machine and (3) defensive wizard that is Ari McDONALD? Wildcats insiders initially point to a combination of Canadian Senior National Team member Shaina PELLINGTON and Oregon transfer/3-point FG specialist Taylor CHAVEZ. Well, PELLINGTON averaged 5.8 ppg, 1.0 apg and 0.6 spg in 15.5 mins/game while shooting a dismal 5.3% from 3-pt territory as the Wildcats' backup PG last season, while CHAVEZ averaged 5.2 ppg, 1.4 apg, and 1.0 spg in 19.0 mins/game while shooting a pretty good 41.5% from 3-point territory during her 3 seasons with the Ducks. From the point of view of the combination of court generalship, scoring ability and defensive pressure at the critical PG position, this does not bode well at all to me. Hopefully, I'm proven wrong....

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - BobK - 09-08-2021

If Chavez is the point I think she will be good. Question is how good of course
Hey Joe missed you welcome back

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - teejers1 - 09-08-2021

(09-07-2021, 04:17 PM)BobK Wrote: I suspect the transfer will be the 3rd Point Guard at the start

I could be wrong but suspect she was accepted by the Stanford Grad school then called and asked to join the team. That’s like the last several grad transfers to Stanford

I think the wheel was greased more than Bob does:

https://www.insidenu.com/2021/5/26/22455653/breaking-jordan-hamilton-announces-transfer-to-stanford

This reads like a hoops transfer decision. If Hamilton were grad transferring first and only then inquiring about hoops, then wouldn't the announcement from her not be coupled with Stanford basketball (i.e., just an announcement that Hamilton is transferring to Stanford for graduate degree)?

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - BobK - 09-08-2021

Could be. Thanks for the post. Not that we cared how. Certainly hope she adds a lot.

An add maybe no chalk talks so can’t ask there. WVB won’t have chalk talks

RE: WBB: Pac 12 Preview—Arizona - Hulk01 - 09-08-2021

Chavez at the point? No. Too slow.

And losing McDonald is like losing Anna Wilson on defense and a first team AA on offense.