SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - Printable Version
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SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - BostonCard - 12-04-2020
https://www.axios.com/covid-stay-at-home-bay-area-order-07935c06-c319-44c2-b8c3-b24a2dc5c6fd.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
Interestingly, among that things that can remain open are: "Entertainment production including professional sports."
BC
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - chrisk - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 03:32 PM)BostonCard Wrote: https://www.axios.com/covid-stay-at-home-bay-area-order-07935c06-c319-44c2-b8c3-b24a2dc5c6fd.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
Interestingly, among that things that can remain open are: "Entertainment production including professional sports."
BC
Here are the effective times (from Palo Alto Online)
The orders will become effective as follows: Santa Clara and Contra Costa counties, Sunday at 10 p.m.; city of Berkeley, Alameda County and San Francisco County, Monday at 12:01 a.m.; and Marin County, Tuesday at noon. San Mateo County did not join the regional health officers in issuing the early order.
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Professional sports sounds like an exemption for the Warriors. I doubt SCC will backtrack on 49ers, Stanford, Santa Clara or SJS.
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - winflop - 12-04-2020
I categorically refuse to comply with orders that lack a scientific basis. There is no contact tracing data to support these orders.
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - OutsiderFan - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 04:39 PM)winflop Wrote: I categorically refuse to comply with orders that lack a scientific basis. There is no contact tracing data to support these orders.
OMG. I can't believe I just read that. You really need to watch this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrooksKTVU/status/1334970818913189888[/tweet]
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - teejers1 - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 04:50 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(12-04-2020, 04:39 PM)winflop Wrote: I categorically refuse to comply with orders that lack a scientific basis. There is no contact tracing data to support these orders.
OMG. I can't believe I just read that. You really need to watch this:
This place needs a sarcasm emoji . . .
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - winflop - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 04:50 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(12-04-2020, 04:39 PM)winflop Wrote: I categorically refuse to comply with orders that lack a scientific basis. There is no contact tracing data to support these orders.
OMG. I can't believe I just read that. You really need to watch this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrooksKTVU/status/1334970818913189888[/tweet]
I'll watch it. Please understand I'm not questioning the severity of the situation. What I'm questioning is the empirical evidence that the additional restrictions they are placing on people and businesses will materially impact the spread of COVID. For example, the CDC has published what it believes are more and less risky activities. Outdoor dining was listed as one of the lowest-risk activities and yet LA county shut it down anyway. Why are big box stores allowed to remain open (with capacity restrictions) but their small store direct competitors forced to close entirely? Where is the contact tracing evidence that COVID is spreading through contact sports? I could go on.
I am all for restrictions that have a basis in empirical evidence. That evidence may exist, but what I've seen to date from health officers at the state and local level is no presentation of that data. The arguments are theoretical and show no consideration for the negative consequences of those decisions. That was acceptable in the spring when we didn't have any experience with COVID. 6+ months later it is no longer acceptable to base decisions on theory. Get the data and make data-driven decisions that factor in the negative consequences of the decisions along with the purported benefits.
OK I watched. My perspective is not only unchanged it is reinforced. There was no presentation of any empirical evidence that shows that the actions being taken will effectively target the greatest sources of COVID spread. There was not even a mention of the negative consequences of these restrictions or the impact on our health system of rising rates of suicide, addiction, child abuse, etc. I'm not saying those are a greater danger than further COVID spread. All I'm saying is that these consequences should be acknowledged and that the decisions are being made in consideration of those counter-effects.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-04-2020
Newsoms order made sense. He’s an elected public official. 6 Million people controlled by unelected bureaucrats. I notice SMateo didn’t join in.
RE: lex24 - winflop - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 05:14 PM)lex24 Wrote: Newsoms order made sense
Respectfully disagree
(12-04-2020, 05:14 PM)lex24 Wrote: I notice SMateo didn’t join in.
Thankful for the little things
RE: lex24 - Goose - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 05:14 PM)lex24 Wrote: Newsoms order made sense. He’s an elected public official. 6 Million people controlled by unelected bureaucrats. I notice SMateo didn’t join in.Whether an order "makes sense" can't depend on who issued it. That is a property of the order, not of the source.
Dr. Morrow has shown himself to be a bit of an outlier at other times. He clearly is concerned with the effects of these orders on business. I also think the San Mateo Board of Supervisors is probably not supportive of the order.
FWIW, I don't support the order either because I think it inflicts most of the damage while not reaping most of the benefits. We need to keep people at home. If retail is open, they will go there because they can't go elsewhere. People who want to do something around the house will line up at Home Depot. I recognize outdoor dining is considered a safe activity. They have outdoor dining at Zott's. They are careful in the beer garden. People waiting in the parking lot are not. It is packed, and there is really nothing anybody can do about that. Now that San Mateo County is the only game in town, it will be even more packed.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 05:39 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-04-2020, 05:14 PM)lex24 Wrote: Newsoms order made sense. He’s an elected public official. 6 Million people controlled by unelected bureaucrats. I notice SMateo didn’t join in.Whether an order "makes sense" can't depend on who issued it. That is a property of the order, not of the source.
Dr. Morrow has shown himself to be a bit of an outlier at other times. He clearly is concerned with the effects of these orders on business. I also think the San Mateo Board of Supervisors is probably not supportive of the order.
FWIW, I don't support the order either because I think it inflicts most of the damage while not reaping most of the benefits. We need to keep people at home. If retail is open, they will go there because they can't go elsewhere. People who want to do something around the house will line up at Home Depot. I recognize outdoor dining is considered a safe activity. They have outdoor dining at Zott's. They are careful in the beer garden. People waiting in the parking lot are not. It is packed, and there is really nothing anybody can do about that. Now that San Mateo County is the only game in town, it will be even more packed.
Yes of course it matters who issued an order. Newsom is the governor of the state we get to vote on his record. Which will include this. These health directors are not elected officials. That is what I meant by the latter part of my statement. As to it “making sense” - I simply meant that the regional system that he put in place with the 15% trigger.
No need for the Bay Area counties to do what they did. Frankly, we will probably be there next week anyway. Or shortly thereafter. So I feel its an “over reach” of their powers.
Do they think that there was not enough thought put into Newsom‘s order? That the people at the state level just threw darts at a board? Personally I think there’s gonna be some blowback on this. We will wait and see. As I said, I was more than “OK“ with Newsom‘s order. Not so much this. Although of course I’ll follow it. I’m a good little lemming.
One other comment – I wish Newsom had locked this down with the counties before coming out with his order. That they would remain in agreement with what he was doing in regards to the trigger. Because frankly it makes his order almost meaningless when they do what they did. And it’s jarring to the public at large.
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - magnus - 12-04-2020
Perhaps, just like in the spring, the bay area counties feel they need to lead the charge.
Weren't they lauded for their early action in the spring and credited for making it easier for Newsom to install restrictions back then? Maybe there's some unpublished agreement between the two groups to do something similar this time around?
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - M T - 12-04-2020
Oh wow, sounds like we have budding conspiracy theories here.
I wish the subject were "Most of SF Bay Area adopts Stay at Home order". I read "triggers" as though our ICU availability plummeted in the last day.
Regarding San Mateo: The state and county data sources are dramatically inconsistent.
We've recently been viewing only staffed (ie, non-surge) beds in statistics. The 15% threshold doesn't specify staffed or surge or whatever. The link to a particular source at the CDPH is broken.
The state's database indicates San Mateo Co. has 38 ICU beds available, but does not indicate the total number of beds. The number available has ranged from 27 to 43 over the last few weeks.
The San Mateo County dashboard indicates only 8 staffed & available ICU beds available (less than 15% of the total of 67 they show). They've not shown more than 15 available ICU beds in the 2 weeks of data they have there.
Can anyone explain this inconsistency of data?
lex24 - lex24 - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 06:16 PM)magnus Wrote: Perhaps, just like in the spring, the bay area counties feel they need to lead the charge.
Weren't they lauded for their early action in the spring and credited for making it easier for Newsom to install restrictions back then? Maybe there's some unpublished agreement between the two groups to do something similar this time around?
Why would Newsom do that? Makes him look weak.
RE: lex24 - magnus - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 10:03 PM)lex24 Wrote:Why wasn't he out in front in the spring? He has to balance the interests of a whole state. Maybe. I dunno. Just throwing out possible reasons. (Sorry, didn't mean to imply that i was pushing my theory)(12-04-2020, 06:16 PM)magnus Wrote: Perhaps, just like in the spring, the bay area counties feel they need to lead the charge.
Weren't they lauded for their early action in the spring and credited for making it easier for Newsom to install restrictions back then? Maybe there's some unpublished agreement between the two groups to do something similar this time around?
Why would Newsom do that? Makes him look weak.
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - BostonCard - 12-04-2020
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ReporterClaudia/status/1335093675450200064?s=20[/tweet]
That was fast. Southern California falls below 15% capacity. But don't worry about USC, there is an exception for professional sports teams.
BC
More from Southern California:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/passantino/status/1335060910264750082?s=20[/tweet]
Click to read the full thread.
BC
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - Mick - 12-05-2020
(12-04-2020, 05:12 PM)winflop Wrote: Why are big box stores allowed to remain open (with capacity restrictions) but their small store direct competitors forced to close entirely?
Walmart Thanks Government For Completely Obliterating Their Small Business Competition
https://babylonbee.com/news/walmart-thanks-government-for-completely-obliterating-their-small-business-competition
lex24 - lex24 - 12-05-2020
(12-04-2020, 11:31 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/ReporterClaudia/status/1335093675450200064?s=20[/tweet]
That was fast. Southern California falls below 15% capacity. But don't worry about USC, there is an exception for professional sports teams.
BC
More from Southern California:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/passantino/status/1335060910264750082?s=20[/tweet]
Click to read the full thread.
BC
Nothing like sounding panicked. To me “the sky is falling” does not provide leadership.
RE: SF Bay Area triggers Stay at Home order - OutsiderFan - 12-05-2020
Some anecdotal evidence of behavior change...
This morning I went to the Sunnyvale Farmer's Market. I don't want to go down the correlation does not equal causation road, and claim that the enhanced restrictions are THE direct cause and have "that" argument, but there was a noticeably smaller number of people at the market vs. what I have seen over previous several weeks.
It is a fact that growing season for most produce, especially vegetables is passed, but it is as much fact that there are a lot of prepared foods and other non fresh produce vendors that get a lot of customers at the market. It seemed to me the cause for the drop-off in traffic was more directly attributable to the current Covid surge and restrictions than anything else. If so, my point here is people are heeding the warnings around these parts at least.
One more thing. I was completely shocked how many people I saw wearing masks in their cars this morning. I've seen that a few times before, but this morning this in-car mask wearing was as noticeable as the drop in traffic at the market.
RE: lex24 - Farm93 - 12-05-2020
(12-05-2020, 09:57 AM)lex24 Wrote:Many of the officials in question tried the science based approach for months now, but too many in our society refused to do what was needed. Often using any number of denier excuses available to them as a novel virus does not offer the ability to create reasoned messages with certainty to drive action in that group.(12-04-2020, 11:31 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/ReporterClaudia/status/1335093675450200064?s=20[/tweet]
That was fast. Southern California falls below 15% capacity. But don't worry about USC, there is an exception for professional sports teams.
BC
More from Southern California:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/passantino/status/1335060910264750082?s=20[/tweet]
Click to read the full thread.
BC
Nothing like sounding panicked. To me “the sky is falling” does not provide leadership.
Given that reasoned, science based approach has failed in the USA, and ICUs are now close to capacity it is a good time to hit the panic button.
~100-150 days from now there may be a vaccine available to the masses, so let's get the masses to rally up to save the mental health of our exhausted health care workers. We won't need to hit the panic button again in ~11 months, so let's use it now.
Now I am just waiting for my cell phone to give me one of those warning messages...
BLEEEEP ---- BLEEEEEEEP ----- BLEEEEEEEEP
- PANIC -
- STAY AT HOME -
- YOUR LIFE WILL BE NORMAL AGAIN WHEN YOU GET VACCINATED IN 2021-
- UNTIL 2021 AVOID LEAVING YOUR HOME -
Some USA citizens seem to respond to tweet like messaging from government leaders, so let's roll with that approach.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-05-2020
Y
(12-05-2020, 12:59 PM)Farm93 Wrote:(12-05-2020, 09:57 AM)lex24 Wrote:Many of the officials in question tried the science based approach for months now, but too many in our society refused to do what was needed. Often using any number of denier excuses available to them as a novel virus does not offer the ability to create reasoned messages with certainty to drive action in that group.(12-04-2020, 11:31 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/ReporterClaudia/status/1335093675450200064?s=20[/tweet]
That was fast. Southern California falls below 15% capacity. But don't worry about USC, there is an exception for professional sports teams.
BC
More from Southern California:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/passantino/status/1335060910264750082?s=20[/tweet]
Click to read the full thread.
BC
Nothing like sounding panicked. To me “the sky is falling” does not provide leadership.
Given that reasoned, science based approach has failed in the USA, and ICUs are now close to capacity it is a good time to hit the panic button.
~100-150 days from now there may be a vaccine available to the masses, so let's get the masses to rally up to save the mental health of our exhausted health care workers. We won't need to hit the panic button again in ~11 months, so let's use it now.
Now I am just waiting for my cell phone to give me one of those warning messages...
BLEEEEP ---- BLEEEEEEEP ----- BLEEEEEEEEP
- PANIC -
- STAY AT HOME -
- YOUR LIFE WILL BE NORMAL AGAIN WHEN YOU GET VACCINATED IN 2021-
- UNTIL 2021 AVOID LEAVING YOUR HOME -
Some USA citizens seem to respond to tweet like messaging from government leaders, so let's roll with that approach.
I would love to see your proof that the explosion in Southern California and the Bay Area is a result of those that “refused to do what was needed.” Second, of those selected what percentage are in the “denier” mode that you suggest. This is California which went something like 72% for Biden and in the Bay Area, which I suspect went at a higher rate for Biden. There are not a bunch of the Bubbbas out there that essentially get blamed for the bad behavior. So what’s happening in other areas regions etc. is irrelevant to the question of what’s going on here as far as I’m concerned.