Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - Printable Version
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Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - teejers1 - 08-19-2020
https://huntnewsnu.com/62861/front-1/aoun-interview-reopening/
Apparently there was an opinion piece on Washington Post today, as well.
We'll see how it goes . . .
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - BostonCard - 08-19-2020
I agree. We should all hope that it works out. That being said, college students are going to do what college students do.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/uconn-students-evicted-dorms-holding-pandemic-party-schools-grapple-covid-n1237311
BC
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - teejers1 - 08-19-2020
(08-19-2020, 02:32 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I agree. We should all hope that it works out. That being said, college students are going to do what college students do.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/uconn-students-evicted-dorms-holding-pandemic-party-schools-grapple-covid-n1237311
BC
Yet another article citing outbreaks at college after college . . . and nary a single word about hospitalizations at any of those locations.
Why is that? Anyone? . . . Anyone ? . . . Bueller?
To be very blunt: if there are lots of reported cases and ZERO hospitalizations from those "lots of reported cases" . . . is it really a problem for that locale?
I know people here believe (as do I) that outbreaks should lead to increased hospitalizations . . . then why aren't we seeing any reporting on this?!? It's especially infuriating because hospital numbers are hard numbers that are tallied regularly, and are not subject to the glitches we saw in CA reporting numbers. (Indeed, the SCC dahsboard has/had qualifiers for all its reported numbers, due to CA glitch, except for . . . you guessed it, hospitalization numbers).
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - BostonCard - 08-19-2020
Fair point, though educational institutions made explicit their plans to minimize the number of infections specifically by enforcing social distancing. That seems to have been poorly thought out given the natural inclinations of 18 - 24 year olds. As far as I know, no educational institution has said, "college age kids have a low risk of severe COVID-19, thus we won't do anything to prevent infections in most of our students other than keeping our students away from high risk groups." I'd be interested to see if some school decides to do the Swedish approach in a low-risk population, in which case your point would be a good one, in which case it is totally appropriate to judge them based on hospitalizations (which you'd expect to be fairly low), not infections.
BC
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - 82 Card - 08-19-2020
Even if college students have a lower chance of severe illness, that doesn't mean they don't make excellent vectors. I wouldn't assume that there aren't any serious illnesses or deaths because they are not mentioned in news articles. Deaths come later after the reporters have moved on to next shiny object. College administrators have a long record of hiding deaths on campus. Back in my days at Penn, you never heard about suicides. Later, it came out that the suicide rate had been fairly high while I was there.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - M T - 08-19-2020
Oh yea, let's worry about non-fatal side effects for student-athletes, but ignore them for student-non-athletes.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - fullmetal - 08-19-2020
There are plenty of immunocompromised college students in America. There is no conscionable reason to "let" the virus run unchecked through the undergraduate population.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - teejers1 - 08-19-2020
(08-19-2020, 04:33 PM)82 Card Wrote: Even if college students have a lower chance of severe illness, that doesn't mean they don't make excellent vectors. I wouldn't assume that there aren't any serious illnesses or deaths because they are not mentioned in news articles. Deaths come later after the reporters have moved on to next shiny object. College administrators have a long record of hiding deaths on campus. Back in my days at Penn, you never heard about suicides. Later, it came out that the suicide rate had been fairly high while I was there.
I'm not the one assuming anything. I'm just wondering why there aren't reported numbers on hospitalizations, which presumably would include professors, old folks, or other, more at-risk individuals in the college communities where the numbers are up) Why is that never (or seemingly never) reported on?
And btw, the absent data would also apply to the immunocompromised college students that fullmetal mentions (although I think it's a fair question as to whether those folks - assuming they know they are so compromised - should be attending college in-person right now). And lastly, no one said anything about "letting the virus run unchecked" through college campuses.
I'm just looking for data that can help inform risk-benefit and policies for same.
But you all keep reformulating my comments/questions so that they fit whatever agenda you're pursuing.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - Mick - 08-20-2020
(08-19-2020, 07:06 PM)fullmetal Wrote: There are plenty of immunocompromised college students in America. There is no conscionable reason to "let" the virus run unchecked through the undergraduate population.
Seems to me that there were meningitis outbreaks at Princeton and UC-Santa Barbara a few years back. How were those handled, does anyone know?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/subscribe/signin/index.html?tid=usw_srw_signin_url&case=fms&next_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnational%2Fhealth-science%2Fmeningitis-outbreaks-at-princeton-uc-santa-barbara-prompt-concern-vaccine-efforts%2F2013%2F12%2F03%2F1f8ed938-5c68-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html&
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - 2006alum - 08-21-2020
(08-19-2020, 09:49 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(08-19-2020, 04:33 PM)82 Card Wrote: Even if college students have a lower chance of severe illness, that doesn't mean they don't make excellent vectors. I wouldn't assume that there aren't any serious illnesses or deaths because they are not mentioned in news articles. Deaths come later after the reporters have moved on to next shiny object. College administrators have a long record of hiding deaths on campus. Back in my days at Penn, you never heard about suicides. Later, it came out that the suicide rate had been fairly high while I was there.
I'm not the one assuming anything. I'm just wondering why there aren't reported numbers on hospitalizations, which presumably would include professors, old folks, or other, more at-risk individuals in the college communities where the numbers are up) Why is that never (or seemingly never) reported on?
And btw, the absent data would also apply to the immunocompromised college students that fullmetal mentions (although I think it's a fair question as to whether those folks - assuming they know they are so compromised - should be attending college in-person right now). And lastly, no one said anything about "letting the virus run unchecked" through college campuses.
I'm just looking for data that can help inform risk-benefit and policies for same.
But you all keep reformulating my comments/questions so that they fit whatever agenda you're pursuing.
Well for one thing, it would probably be a HIPAA violation to report that. For another, how would schools even have this data? If they are conducting the testing in their student health centers, they can report number of positive test results in the aggregate. But unless they are research universities with their own hospitals, I have no idea how they'd even know this.
But more generally: the Georgia State QB who's out for the season with myocarditis was, to my knowledge, never hospitalized for his symptoms. And yet he's out for the season. So I suspect folks are pushing back on your insistence on prioritizing this data point because it implies that any symptoms of illness short of hospitalization should be treated as an entirely lesser category of concern, when there's lots of evidence to think that that's not necessarily true.
lex24 - lex24 - 08-21-2020
Question no 1: How does the risk factor of attending school for these kids as it pertains to getting compared with the risk factor of them getting Covid with school closed?
Question 2: Have there been any studies that examine the risk factor of long term effects for those under 30 (or 40)? I know there have been a few cases. But I’m not aware of anything that suggests large numbers. I harken back to the time around April or May when we were hearing about young kids with symptoms that mirrored Kawasaki (I may have the name of the disease wrong). There were about 150-200 cases WORLD WIDE.) Haven’t seen much on it since then.
Question 3: Are the families of college age kids SAFER from Covid with their kids in College. (Assuming they aren’t commuting from home)
We know that the college age kids have almost no chance of getting seriously ill (hospitalized) from Covid. And even less chance of dying. We also know that the age group has a fairly high infection rate without colleges being opened. To me the simple but important questions are- how much is the risk increased. And of course what is the ultimate risk.
Also, let’s remember these are generally 18-25 year olds. Do you think they are hanging out at home locked in ? Highly unlikely.
So I don’t think this can be analyzed in a vacuum.
RE: lex24 - M T - 08-21-2020
(08-21-2020, 08:57 AM)lex24 Wrote: Question 2: ...I harken back to the time around April or May when we were hearing about young kids with symptoms that mirrored Kawasaki (I may have the name of the disease wrong). There were about 150-200 cases WORLD WIDE.) Haven’t seen much on it since then.The CDC reports about 700 cases in the US of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C). The CDC does not control what the media decides to highlight.
Quote:Early in the pandemic, it appeared that children were less likely than adults to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 and, if infected, most had mild to moderate illness. Then, MIS-C cases began to appear in children weeks after they had COVID-19, and sometimes when a child had no known prior SARS-CoV-2 infection.
...
Children appeared to be less likely than adults to be infected or to have severe illness early in the COVID-19 pandemic; however, as the outbreak has progressed, larger numbers of children are getting infected. It’s unknown whether this increase in COVID-19 cases among children will also increase cases of MIS-C.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - teejers1 - 08-21-2020
(08-21-2020, 07:24 AM)2006alum Wrote:(08-19-2020, 09:49 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(08-19-2020, 04:33 PM)82 Card Wrote: Even if college students have a lower chance of severe illness, that doesn't mean they don't make excellent vectors. I wouldn't assume that there aren't any serious illnesses or deaths because they are not mentioned in news articles. Deaths come later after the reporters have moved on to next shiny object. College administrators have a long record of hiding deaths on campus. Back in my days at Penn, you never heard about suicides. Later, it came out that the suicide rate had been fairly high while I was there.
I'm not the one assuming anything. I'm just wondering why there aren't reported numbers on hospitalizations, which presumably would include professors, old folks, or other, more at-risk individuals in the college communities where the numbers are up) Why is that never (or seemingly never) reported on?
And btw, the absent data would also apply to the immunocompromised college students that fullmetal mentions (although I think it's a fair question as to whether those folks - assuming they know they are so compromised - should be attending college in-person right now). And lastly, no one said anything about "letting the virus run unchecked" through college campuses.
I'm just looking for data that can help inform risk-benefit and policies for same.
But you all keep reformulating my comments/questions so that they fit whatever agenda you're pursuing.
Well for one thing, it would probably be a HIPAA violation to report that. For another, how would schools even have this data? If they are conducting the testing in their student health centers, they can report number of positive test results in the aggregate. But unless they are research universities with their own hospitals, I have no idea how they'd even know this.
But more generally: the Georgia State QB who's out for the season with myocarditis was, to my knowledge, never hospitalized for his symptoms. And yet he's out for the season. So I suspect folks are pushing back on your insistence on prioritizing this data point because it implies that any symptoms of illness short of hospitalization should be treated as an entirely lesser category of concern, when there's lots of evidence to think that that's not necessarily true.
How about basic reporting? As in, were the kids testing positive symptomatic? About what percentage? Did any kids, to your knowledge, require hospitalization? None of that violates HIPAA.
And likewise, how about checking the dashboard and calling the hospital and asking, you know, "Hey, with bounce in reported cases at ___, are you noticing an increase in Covid hospitalizations? And check back with them in a couple weeks to account for any lag.
It's pretty basic and not hard . . . is it?
I've already talked about the QB from Georgia State in another thread. Best to him.
To Lex: I've hit on "incremental risk" many times in these parts. It's as popular a concept here as "hospitalization numbers" are!!! :)
Edit: A colleague of mine and ND grad relayed that the university is being transparent about test results in South Bend. This guy said ND is reporting on profile of those testing positive (all but 1 have been students; 1 staff person), number of positives and % positive rate, and did relay that none of those testing positive required hospitalization. My colleague said that info was 1+ days old, so maybe it has changed.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - 82lsju - 08-21-2020
(08-21-2020, 11:19 AM)teejers1 Wrote: Edit: A colleague of mine and ND grad relayed that the university is being transparent about test results in South Bend. This guy said ND is reporting on profile of those testing positive (all but 1 have been students; 1 staff person), number of positives and % positive rate, and did relay that none of those testing positive required hospitalization. My colleague said that info was 1+ days old, so maybe it has changed.
ND COVID-19 Dashboard here
https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/dashboard/
UNC COVID-19 Dashboard here
https://carolinatogether.unc.edu/dashboard/
it provides quite a few more details (but not hospitalizations)
no Stanford dashboard (that I could find) but there is this update
https://healthalerts.stanford.edu/covid-19/confirmed-cases-at-stanford/
Quote:At this time, we are aware of one student living on the Stanford campus who has an active confirmed case of COVID-19 and is isolating.
We are currently aware of 119 individuals – including the student referenced above – residing in a variety of communities in the Bay Area and beyond, who are connected to the Stanford community either as faculty, staff, students or postdocs and who have received positive COVID-19 test results to date. Individuals in this category are advised to recuperate in self-isolation and to seek medical care when they need it.
I have read in a couple places Universities citing FERPA as a reason to not disclose more than # or positive tests.
lex24 - lex24 - 08-21-2020
(08-21-2020, 10:49 AM)M T Wrote:(08-21-2020, 08:57 AM)lex24 Wrote: Question 2: ...I harken back to the time around April or May when we were hearing about young kids with symptoms that mirrored Kawasaki (I may have the name of the disease wrong). There were about 150-200 cases WORLD WIDE.) Haven’t seen much on it since then.The CDC reports about 700 cases in the US of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C). The CDC does not control what the media decides to highlight.
Quote:Early in the pandemic, it appeared that children were less likely than adults to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 and, if infected, most had mild to moderate illness. Then, MIS-C cases began to appear in children weeks after they had COVID-19, and sometimes when a child had no known prior SARS-CoV-2 infection.
...
Children appeared to be less likely than adults to be infected or to have severe illness early in the COVID-19 pandemic; however, as the outbreak has progressed, larger numbers of children are getting infected. It’s unknown whether this increase in COVID-19 cases among children will also increase cases of MIS-C.
Thanks. Still a very low number, thankfully.
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - Hurlburt88 - 08-22-2020
Dropping my youngest off at Marquette tomorrow . . . stay tuned for my reactions over time to how things are going. We have obviously made the decision better to attend than take a gap year or something--partially based on logic that he is not totally isolated even not attending school. Not easy decisions!
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - magnus - 08-22-2020
https://www.foxnews.com/us/syracuse-university-suspends-nearly-2-dozen-students-for-on-campus-gathering-amid-pandemic
(08-22-2020, 08:14 AM)Hurlburt88 Wrote: Dropping my youngest off at Marquette tomorrow . . . stay tuned for my reactions over time to how things are going. We have obviously made the decision better to attend than take a gap year or something--partially based on logic that he is not totally isolated even not attending school. Not easy decisions!Fingers crossed Hurlburt88!
Hopefully your youngest can relay stories of college successes against covid as all we're getting right now are more and more reports of student conduct violations and abrupt changes over to remote learning.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/syracuse-university-suspends-nearly-2-dozen-students-for-on-campus-gathering-amid-pandemic
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - Goose - 08-22-2020
(08-22-2020, 09:55 AM)magnus Wrote: https://www.foxnews.com/us/syracuse-university-suspends-nearly-2-dozen-students-for-on-campus-gathering-amid-pandemicThe Vice Chancellor said it all. Unfortunately, I believe it is pretty probable they fail even if the students are quite compliant. Too many people too close together. However, if the are to have any shot at all, the students need to do an almost perfect job. I hope they do so.
Quote:“We have one shot to make this happen,” Vice Chancellor J. Michael Haynie wrote in a letter to students about the school’s effort to have in-person classes during the pandemic. “The world is watching, and they expect you to fail. Prove them wrong.”
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - oldalum - 08-22-2020
letter sent by Vanderbilt, if anyone's interested: (all 4 classes are present, but on-campus housing is reduced to one student per room, so many students are living off-campus) (we'll see how it goes; my wife was dismayed to see indoor dining/bars in Nashville last week. One factor is that the fraternities and sororities--who do not have live-in houses--are under pressure from a student-led movement to abolish them at Vanderbilt for a variety of reasons, so they may be less prone to create problems with off-campus parties)
Dear Vanderbilt students and families,
As the headlines fill with stories of universities being forced to suspend in-person classes after reopening due to outbreaks on campus, we write to reiterate the utmost seriousness with which you, and every single member of the Vanderbilt community, must take our public health and safety requirements.
Every student must know that the parties and disregard for face masks, physical distancing and gathering size causing universities to abandon in-person classes will not be tolerated at Vanderbilt. One person’s decision to shrug off their responsibility for a night of fun can be the reason an entire class misses its senior year, or why a student, for whom Vanderbilt is the safest home they know, is forced to leave.
You must take personal responsibility for the safety of your fellow students while on campus and off campus and for our dedicated faculty and staff who are devoted to your success, and you must prioritize what is most important.
All students should also know that flouting public health requirements in Nashville doesn’t just result in student conduct violations—it can carry real criminal penalties, as was the case with the recent arrest of the hosts of a reckless party in our city. These criminal penalties and disciplinary actions will follow students and derail their future chances for attending graduate, law, medical, nursing and other professional schools or securing their dream job.
We write this not to scare you but to be perfectly plain that the situation happening at other universities can be avoided at Vanderbilt, but only if you anchor down, step up, and do your part. Only if you make the right choices.
You were accepted to Vanderbilt because you distinguished yourself from tens of thousands of students who wanted the opportunity you have earned. You chose Vanderbilt because of its excellence in academics and the chance to be part of a community united by shared values. You are the students who can demonstrate that at Vanderbilt, we take care of one another, we make sacrifices, and we do the right thing.
Not all students were able to return to campus this fall because of the pandemic. For those of you who were able to return, your choice states that physically being here at Vanderbilt in Nashville for your education is the most important thing in your life at this time. By sending you here, your families have also decided that this hard choice is worth it. We are counting on all of you to prove it by showing the leadership, caring, intelligence and determination that brought you to Vanderbilt in the first place.
Your responsible actions this fall will be the reason that your degree will stand out from others, as five, 10, 15 years from now people will remember that Vanderbilt students responded to the pandemic with strength, responsibility, integrity and courage. Your actions in the coming weeks will show that Vanderbilt will indeed, in the words of our alma mater, conquer and prevail.
Onward,
Daniel Diermeier
Chancellor
Susan R. Wente
Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs
RE: Good luck to President Aoun and Northeastern - teejers1 - 08-22-2020
(08-22-2020, 11:00 AM)oldalum Wrote: letter sent by Vanderbilt, if anyone's interested: (all 4 classes are present, but on-campus housing is reduced to one student per room, so many students are living off-campus) (we'll see how it goes; my wife was dismayed to see indoor dining/bars in Nashville last week. One factor is that the fraternities and sororities--who do not have live-in houses--are under pressure from a student-led movement to abolish them at Vanderbilt for a variety of reasons, so they may be less prone to create problems with off-campus parties)
Dear Vanderbilt students and families,
As the headlines fill with stories of universities being forced to suspend in-person classes after reopening due to outbreaks on campus, we write to reiterate the utmost seriousness with which you, and every single member of the Vanderbilt community, must take our public health and safety requirements.
Every student must know that the parties and disregard for face masks, physical distancing and gathering size causing universities to abandon in-person classes will not be tolerated at Vanderbilt. One person’s decision to shrug off their responsibility for a night of fun can be the reason an entire class misses its senior year, or why a student, for whom Vanderbilt is the safest home they know, is forced to leave.
You must take personal responsibility for the safety of your fellow students while on campus and off campus and for our dedicated faculty and staff who are devoted to your success, and you must prioritize what is most important.
All students should also know that flouting public health requirements in Nashville doesn’t just result in student conduct violations—it can carry real criminal penalties, as was the case with the recent arrest of the hosts of a reckless party in our city. These criminal penalties and disciplinary actions will follow students and derail their future chances for attending graduate, law, medical, nursing and other professional schools or securing their dream job.
We write this not to scare you but to be perfectly plain that the situation happening at other universities can be avoided at Vanderbilt, but only if you anchor down, step up, and do your part. Only if you make the right choices.
You were accepted to Vanderbilt because you distinguished yourself from tens of thousands of students who wanted the opportunity you have earned. You chose Vanderbilt because of its excellence in academics and the chance to be part of a community united by shared values. You are the students who can demonstrate that at Vanderbilt, we take care of one another, we make sacrifices, and we do the right thing.
Not all students were able to return to campus this fall because of the pandemic. For those of you who were able to return, your choice states that physically being here at Vanderbilt in Nashville for your education is the most important thing in your life at this time. By sending you here, your families have also decided that this hard choice is worth it. We are counting on all of you to prove it by showing the leadership, caring, intelligence and determination that brought you to Vanderbilt in the first place.
Your responsible actions this fall will be the reason that your degree will stand out from others, as five, 10, 15 years from now people will remember that Vanderbilt students responded to the pandemic with strength, responsibility, integrity and courage. Your actions in the coming weeks will show that Vanderbilt will indeed, in the words of our alma mater, conquer and prevail.
Onward,
Daniel Diermeier
Chancellor
Susan R. Wente
Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs
1. Good luck to Hurlburt88 Clan and Marquette community;
2. Great letter from Vandy Chancellor (good luck there, too); and
3. Agree with Magnus that all we ever read about is "failings" or setbacks on college campuses. What I can't tell is if there are successes going on around the country that we're not reading about in MSM. Maybe not. Maybe that's expecting too much. I really have no clue. By way of one example, with the wildfires in Northern CA sending smoke everywhere, one radio report said the smoke was having various impacts, including closing college classes (among list of others). I was not even aware that any college in NoCal was having in-person classes . . . but maybe I misheard the report, or it was misreported, or my assumption is wrong (i.e., what was canceled was remote instruction . . . though that seems odd).