Newsom slams CA into reverse - Printable Version

Newsom slams CA into reverse - Printable Version

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Newsom slams CA into reverse - Farm93 - 07-13-2020

Well,

COVID teaches all of us once again that it is in charge.

A reboot without PPE discipline, testing and tracing gave COVID more than enough to succeed.

Many were rightfully concerned we could not halt the economy for the second time, but that was the only choice left after we rushed through the phases and had far too many people, including our POTUS, not believing in the seriousness of COVID.

Now lots of SoCal indoor businesses will be closed again. Hopefully this retreat will allow us to be much more organized when we go forward the next time.

FWIW - That should seal the deal on Pac-12 sports, and public schools in August.

Stay safe everyone.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - OutsiderFan - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Well,

COVID teaches all of us once again that it is in charge.

A reboot without PPE discipline, testing and tracing gave COVID more than enough to succeed.

Many were rightfully concerned we could not halt the economy for the second time, but that was the only choice left after we rushed through the phases and had far too many people, including our POTUS, not believing in the seriousness of COVID.

Now lots of SoCal indoor businesses will be closed again. Hopefully this retreat will allow us to be much more organized when we go forward the next time.

FWIW - That should seal the deal on Pac-12 sports, and public schools in August.

Stay safe everyone.

It's not just SoCal. All indoor dining, bars, and movie theaters are now closed in entire state. In So Cal, even more, including barbershops and hair salons must close again.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - burger - 07-13-2020

Good. It'll be very interesting to see how things trend now in Cali vs Texas, Florida, and Arizona which are barely tapping the breaks on reopening. FWIW, if you squint at the hospitalization data for the state, the slope is maybe just maybe leveling off a bit.

Hopefully Congress will extend the more generous unemployment benefits to help anyone out of a job now/again. There's a lot of chatter about a deal, but some of the republican demands for tax cuts are ridiculous.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - JustAnotherFan - 07-13-2020

Unfounded hope isn't enough, apparently. Who woulda thunk it?

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Snorlax94 - 07-13-2020

I’m sad to hear this because I wish the circumstances were different, but I’m a little relieved to hear this because I think we should’ve been taking more steps earlier in SoCal.

My concern/criticism would be: why does Newsom target what he targets? In terms of what data has been made public, it’s not salons and hairdresssers who are spreading this. They say it’s non-compliant businesses, places that sell alcohol (including restaurants!), and house parties, so why not focus more on those?

We have been giving a free pass to restaurants that serve alcohol. I might be suspicious of Newsom and his restauranteeeing background, but it’s been a nationwide inconsistency — close all bars but let people hang out at upscale restaurants with groups of friends for hours drinking wine.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - M T - 07-13-2020

I would think a better analogy is "California applies the brakes to avoid a train wreck"

One of the disturbing things is to watch the comments go by on the video of his presentation. Very polar opinions that seem to be strongly held.

He did close some things down statewide for those 20% of the population not under restrictions (again, SCC got on the monitoring list today, but it takes 3 days on the list to be on the restricted list).

For those counties on restrictions, the big item may be closing indoor operations of non-essential offices. It doesn't say "stores".

One thing that wasn't clear: indoor cardrooms are now closed. Will the casinos (slot machines, etc.) be told to close? Will those that are run by American Indians actually close?

Lots to be cleared up.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Goose - 07-13-2020

I am glad Newsom is (finally) doing something. I have no idea why the state thinks the steps they are taking will be enough. Do they know that indoor dining contributed greatly to the increase in cases in LA? For some reason, I doubt it. I fear that they have no idea at all what it will take to slow this thing down and are working their way back towards full SIP in baby steps. Unfortunately, while they take baby steps we get the disease spread even wider and deeper into the population.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - OutsiderFan - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 12:52 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote: My concern/criticism would be: why does Newsom target what he targets? In terms of what data has been made public, it’s not salons and hairdresssers who are spreading this. They say it’s non-compliant businesses, places that sell alcohol (including restaurants!), and house parties, so why not focus more on those?

Do we have the luxury of being any more precise than inside, outside, and essential, about what should and shouldn't shut down? And if indoor dining isn't allowed, schools aren't opening. L.A. and San Diego both announced online only classes through Fall.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Farm93 - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 01:14 PM)Goose Wrote: I am glad Newsom is (finally) doing something. I have no idea why the state thinks the steps they are taking will be enough. Do they know that indoor dining contributed greatly to the increase in cases in LA? For some reason, I doubt it. I fear that they have no idea at all what it will take to slow this thing down and are working their way back towards full SIP in baby steps. Unfortunately, while they take baby steps we get the disease spread even wider and deeper into the population.

I suspect he knows the required bigger steps will immediately create political noise that would doom the effort from the start.

Start with small logical steps that are harder to politicize and then move to more dramatic things in 5-7 days.
For example, next week could be restaurants and schools.

I think we are reversing too slowly, but I understand it is hard to declare items at the State level when others with significant clout will immediately tweet about how this Governor is corrupt or risk-averse or whatever. Those tweets are not my deal, but all of these CA-wide efforts fail if 20-40% of the population decides to just ignore the science and the CA mandates.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Goose - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 01:29 PM)Farm93 Wrote: I think we are reversing too slowly, but I understand it is hard to declare items at the State level when others with significant clout will immediately tweet about how this Governor is corrupt or risk-averse or whatever. Those tweets are not my deal, but all of these CA-wide efforts fail if 20-40% of the population decides to just ignore the science and the CA mandates.

The political sensitivity is a real issue. Unfortunately, I think that ignoring the "science" and the mandates transcends politics. There is a substantial minority that just isn't willing to give up any of their activities to fight an epidemic. Their reasons are nearly always selfish, not political. History is replete with examples. That is why enforcement mechanisms existed and were applied. Our society and our leaders seem to have given up on that idea. Unfortunately these leaders propose no alternative remedy. The idea that 20-40% of the population can decide to ignore health department regulations must simply be inadmissible. If they can do so, it is impossible to avoid an even larger disaster.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-13-2020

It’s easy to brand everyone with whom we believe is not living according to our standards under this pandemic as “selfish”. A little more difficult to try to understand why it’s may be just a tad more difficult for some. Somebody posted a poll about masks. I’d love to see a poll of the posters on this board. I’d ask about income level, age, education level, net worth. And occupation. My guess - very high percentage with income above $150,000. Ave age - 50’s. Education - college or advanced degree Net worth - high. Occupation - professionals/upper management or high paid position in the tech industry. (Or retired)

Maybe I’m wrong – but I’m guessing that most of the people who post on this board are much more capable of taking the economic hit from this thing than the average person. And that those of you with school age kids will abe able to do what ever is necessary to be certain that your kids are able to get the best education possible during their time they’re staying at home. My guess is few if any have issues where you have to go to work every day and no way to pay someone to care for your kids., who can’t go to school while you work. I’m guessing that very few, if any of you, are waiters, hairstylists, bartenders, or that you own businesses in the service sector or retail sectors that have been badly damaged.

It is easy to call others “selfish“ because they’re not doing what we think should be done during this time frame. And it is easy to divide this into those of us who “do the right thing“ and the others who we believe don’t. But in reality it’s a hell of a lot more complex than that.

Along those lines I was listening to KCBS. They were interviewing a woman I believe in Sonoma County. She had just gotten her salon ready for customers. After not being able to do so for months. She had to pay several thousand dollars to get the PPE‘s in place and she had done so. She got shut down at noon today. So she loses more money. She was talking about wondering how she was going to be able to feed her kids. I guess she’s just selfish.

RE: lex24 - Snorlax94 - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 06:55 PM)lex24 Wrote: It’s easy to brand everyone with whom we believe is not living according to our standards under this pandemic as “selfish”. A little more difficult to try to understand why it’s may be just a tad more difficult for some. Somebody posted a poll about masks. I’d love to see a poll of the posters on this board. I’d ask about income level, age, education level, net worth. And occupation. My guess - very high percentage with income above $150,000. Ave age - 50’s. Education - college or advanced degree Net worth - high. Occupation - professionals/upper management or high paid position in the tech industry. (Or retired)

Maybe I’m wrong – but I’m guessing that most of the people who post on this board are much more capable of taking the economic hit from this thing than the average person. And that those of you with school age kids will abe able to do what ever is necessary to be certain that your kids are able to get the best education possible during their time they’re staying at home. My guess is few if any have issues where you have to go to work every day and no way to pay someone to care for your kids., who can’t go to school while you work. I’m guessing that very few, if any of you, are waiters, hairstylists, bartenders, or that you own businesses in the service sector or retail sectors that have been badly damaged.

It is easy to call others “selfish“ because they’re not doing what we think should be done during this time frame. And it is easy to divide this into those of us who “do the right thing“ and the others who we believe don’t. But in reality it’s a hell of a lot more complex than that.

Along those lines I was listening to KCBS. They were interviewing a woman I believe in Sonoma County. She had just gotten her salon ready for customers. After not being able to do so for months. She had to pay several thousand dollars to get the PPE‘s in place and she had done so. She got shut down at noon today. So she loses more money. She was talking about wondering how she was going to be able to feed her kids. I guess she’s just selfish.

How do you go from “not a hairdresser” to “selfish?”

If people want to be selfless and show compassion for our fellow Americans, we should all wear masks and follow health guidelines about gatherings to help those salons and schools safely open and stay open.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 07:03 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 06:55 PM)lex24 Wrote: It’s easy to brand everyone with whom we believe is not living according to our standards under this pandemic as “selfish”. A little more difficult to try to understand why it’s may be just a tad more difficult for some. Somebody posted a poll about masks. I’d love to see a poll of the posters on this board. I’d ask about income level, age, education level, net worth. And occupation. My guess - very high percentage with income above $150,000. Ave age - 50’s. Education - college or advanced degree Net worth - high. Occupation - professionals/upper management or high paid position in the tech industry. (Or retired)

Maybe I’m wrong – but I’m guessing that most of the people who post on this board are much more capable of taking the economic hit from this thing than the average person. And that those of you with school age kids will abe able to do what ever is necessary to be certain that your kids are able to get the best education possible during their time they’re staying at home. My guess is few if any have issues where you have to go to work every day and no way to pay someone to care for your kids., who can’t go to school while you work. I’m guessing that very few, if any of you, are waiters, hairstylists, bartenders, or that you own businesses in the service sector or retail sectors that have been badly damaged.

It is easy to call others “selfish“ because they’re not doing what we think should be done during this time frame. And it is easy to divide this into those of us who “do the right thing“ and the others who we believe don’t. But in reality it’s a hell of a lot more complex than that.

Along those lines I was listening to KCBS. They were interviewing a woman I believe in Sonoma County. She had just gotten her salon ready for customers. After not being able to do so for months. She had to pay several thousand dollars to get the PPE‘s in place and she had done so. She got shut down at noon today. So she loses more money. She was talking about wondering how she was going to be able to feed her kids. I guess she’s just selfish.
How do you go from “not a hairdresser” to “selfish?”

If people want to be selfless and show compassion for our fellow Americans, we should all wear masks and follow health guidelines about gatherings to help those salons and schools safely open and stay open.

Agree on masks. Wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I’m simply trying to suggest that there are shades of gray....

RE: lex24 - chrisk - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 06:55 PM)lex24 Wrote: It’s easy to brand everyone with whom we believe is not living according to our standards under this pandemic as “selfish”. A little more difficult to try to understand why it’s may be just a tad more difficult for some. Somebody posted a poll about masks. I’d love to see a poll of the posters on this board. I’d ask about income level, age, education level, net worth. And occupation. My guess - very high percentage with income above $150,000. Ave age - 50’s. Education - college or advanced degree Net worth - high. Occupation - professionals/upper management or high paid position in the tech industry. (Or retired)

Maybe I’m wrong – but I’m guessing that most of the people who post on this board are much more capable of taking the economic hit from this thing than the average person. And that those of you with school age kids will abe able to do what ever is necessary to be certain that your kids are able to get the best education possible during their time they’re staying at home. My guess is few if any have issues where you have to go to work every day and no way to pay someone to care for your kids., who can’t go to school while you work. I’m guessing that very few, if any of you, are waiters, hairstylists, bartenders, or that you own businesses in the service sector or retail sectors that have been badly damaged.

It is easy to call others “selfish“ because they’re not doing what we think should be done during this time frame. And it is easy to divide this into those of us who “do the right thing“ and the others who we believe don’t. But in reality it’s a hell of a lot more complex than that.

Along those lines I was listening to KCBS. They were interviewing a woman I believe in Sonoma County. She had just gotten her salon ready for customers. After not being able to do so for months. She had to pay several thousand dollars to get the PPE‘s in place and she had done so. She got shut down at noon today. So she loses more money. She was talking about wondering how she was going to be able to feed her kids. I guess she’s just selfish.

Americans have to deal with the fact that almost every other developed country has controlled COVID. Are Americans failing because they are exceptional or selfish? You may not like the work selfish but exceptional is not the right word to apply to failure.

(07-13-2020, 06:55 PM)lex24 Wrote: It’s easy to brand everyone with whom we believe is not living according to our standards under this pandemic as “selfish”. A little more difficult to try to understand why it’s may be just a tad more difficult for some. Somebody posted a poll about masks. I’d love to see a poll of the posters on this board. I’d ask about income level, age, education level, net worth. And occupation. My guess - very high percentage with income above $150,000. Ave age - 50’s. Education - college or advanced degree Net worth - high. Occupation - professionals/upper management or high paid position in the tech industry. (Or retired)

Maybe I’m wrong – but I’m guessing that most of the people who post on this board are much more capable of taking the economic hit from this thing than the average person. And that those of you with school age kids will abe able to do what ever is necessary to be certain that your kids are able to get the best education possible during their time they’re staying at home. My guess is few if any have issues where you have to go to work every day and no way to pay someone to care for your kids., who can’t go to school while you work. I’m guessing that very few, if any of you, are waiters, hairstylists, bartenders, or that you own businesses in the service sector or retail sectors that have been badly damaged.

It is easy to call others “selfish“ because they’re not doing what we think should be done during this time frame. And it is easy to divide this into those of us who “do the right thing“ and the others who we believe don’t. But in reality it’s a hell of a lot more complex than that.

Along those lines I was listening to KCBS. They were interviewing a woman I believe in Sonoma County. She had just gotten her salon ready for customers. After not being able to do so for months. She had to pay several thousand dollars to get the PPE‘s in place and she had done so. She got shut down at noon today. So she loses more money. She was talking about wondering how she was going to be able to feed her kids. I guess she’s just selfish.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Goose - 07-13-2020

It is undoubtedly true that the effects of actions mandated by the State and Counties do not fall equally on everybody. If you are able to effectively work from home you may be almost unaffected financially by this outbreak. If you own a bar or restaurant, you are going to take a big hit. There is no way around that. It was the same when ships sat in the harbor for 40 days in the 1400s. If you happened to arrive when there was an outbreak of something, you took a hit.

While I do understand that the impact is different for everybody, the simple fact is that if we don't all comply with the restrictions, we are all going to take a hit that will be much larger than financial. So, if some bar remains open, it may make some money, but when the economy collapses because we can't control the epidemic, that extra money isn't going to matter. It will be worthless anyway.

That said, my "selfish" statement was more directed to gratuitous non-compliance. The people who went to the beach party in Michigan weren't going to suffer much if they stayed home. The numerous construction workers who are ignoring social distancing, not wearing masks and eating lunch shoulder to shoulder wouldn't suffer much if they didn't do those things. Yes, there are cases where real hardships involved, but there is much more simply selfish behavior going on IMHO. Neither is OK. Hopefully we can mitigate the real hardships, but probably we won't be entirely successful. It is the other case that is really killing us IMHO.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Mick - 07-13-2020

(07-13-2020, 12:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Well,

COVID teaches all of us once again that it is in charge.

A reboot without PPE discipline, testing and tracing gave COVID more than enough to succeed.

Many were rightfully concerned we could not halt the economy for the second time, but that was the only choice left after we rushed through the phases and had far too many people, including our POTUS, not believing in the seriousness of COVID.

Now lots of SoCal indoor businesses will be closed again. Hopefully this retreat will allow us to be much more organized when we go forward the next time.

FWIW - That should seal the deal on Pac-12 sports, and public schools in August.

Stay safe everyone.

It's not just SoCal. All indoor dining, bars, and movie theaters are now closed in entire state. In So Cal, even more, including barbershops and hair salons must close again.

Had a haircut yesterday, first day my barber opened. Barber is closing down on Wednesday.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - chrisk - 07-14-2020

(07-13-2020, 09:56 PM)Mick Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Well,

COVID teaches all of us once again that it is in charge.

A reboot without PPE discipline, testing and tracing gave COVID more than enough to succeed.

Many were rightfully concerned we could not halt the economy for the second time, but that was the only choice left after we rushed through the phases and had far too many people, including our POTUS, not believing in the seriousness of COVID.

Now lots of SoCal indoor businesses will be closed again. Hopefully this retreat will allow us to be much more organized when we go forward the next time.

FWIW - That should seal the deal on Pac-12 sports, and public schools in August.

Stay safe everyone.

It's not just SoCal. All indoor dining, bars, and movie theaters are now closed in entire state. In So Cal, even more, including barbershops and hair salons must close again.

In Santa Clara County, barber shops, hair salons, and gyms are expected to close Wednesday after being open for 2 days. Even the slow-going Dr Cody could not eradicate irresponsible behavior. A month ago, COVID was at a low level in SCC and now it is growing rapidly.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - teejers1 - 07-14-2020

(07-14-2020, 08:26 AM)chrisk Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 09:56 PM)Mick Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Well,

COVID teaches all of us once again that it is in charge.

A reboot without PPE discipline, testing and tracing gave COVID more than enough to succeed.

Many were rightfully concerned we could not halt the economy for the second time, but that was the only choice left after we rushed through the phases and had far too many people, including our POTUS, not believing in the seriousness of COVID.

Now lots of SoCal indoor businesses will be closed again. Hopefully this retreat will allow us to be much more organized when we go forward the next time.

FWIW - That should seal the deal on Pac-12 sports, and public schools in August.

Stay safe everyone.

It's not just SoCal. All indoor dining, bars, and movie theaters are now closed in entire state. In So Cal, even more, including barbershops and hair salons must close again.
In Santa Clara County, barber shops, hair salons, and gyms are expected to close Wednesday after being open for 2 days. Even the slow-going Dr Cody could not eradicate irresponsible behavior. A month ago, COVID was at a low level in SCC and not it is growing rapidly.

And hospital capacity in Santa Clara County? How's that looking?

Today's front page article in Merc talks about hospitals (good); but if you read the article critically (as opposed to just simply accepting the unwritten implications of the article) you might not get a real good picture of hospital capacity issues and where they may (or may not) be arising.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - Snorlax94 - 07-14-2020

(07-14-2020, 10:37 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(07-14-2020, 08:26 AM)chrisk Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 09:56 PM)Mick Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Well,

COVID teaches all of us once again that it is in charge.

A reboot without PPE discipline, testing and tracing gave COVID more than enough to succeed.

Many were rightfully concerned we could not halt the economy for the second time, but that was the only choice left after we rushed through the phases and had far too many people, including our POTUS, not believing in the seriousness of COVID.

Now lots of SoCal indoor businesses will be closed again. Hopefully this retreat will allow us to be much more organized when we go forward the next time.

FWIW - That should seal the deal on Pac-12 sports, and public schools in August.

Stay safe everyone.

It's not just SoCal. All indoor dining, bars, and movie theaters are now closed in entire state. In So Cal, even more, including barbershops and hair salons must close again.
In Santa Clara County, barber shops, hair salons, and gyms are expected to close Wednesday after being open for 2 days. Even the slow-going Dr Cody could not eradicate irresponsible behavior. A month ago, COVID was at a low level in SCC and not it is growing rapidly.

And hospital capacity in Santa Clara County? How's that looking?

Today's front page article in Merc talks about hospitals (good); but if you read the article critically (as opposed to just simply accepting the unwritten implications of the article) you might not get a real good picture of hospital capacity issues and where they may (or may not) be arising.

Yes, there are plenty of hospital beds in Santa Clara County. SCC has a very large number of beds per 100,000 conpared to other counties — we could get to a rate of prevalence far exceeding many counties in the news without running out of hospital beds.

A problem with very high prevalence rates is that everything begins to become dangerous because so many people are infected. If people are vulnerable and the rates across the county are high it becomes hard to avoid infection even if you are very careful — multiple shoppers around you may be shedding virus even if you limit yourself to essential shopping, more patients could be infectious in doctors’ waiting rooms, more employees at long term care facilities will get infected by household members.

Even if SCC had an ICU bed and ventilator for every single resident, we shouldn’t keep everything open until we have used them all.

RE: Newsom slams CA into reverse - teejers1 - 07-14-2020

(07-14-2020, 11:16 AM)Snorlax94 Wrote: A problem with very high prevalence rates is that everything begins to become dangerous because so many people are infected. If people are vulnerable and the rates across the county are high it becomes hard to avoid infection even if you are very careful — multiple shoppers around you may be shedding virus even if you limit yourself to essential shopping, more patients could be infectious in doctors’ waiting rooms, more employees at long term care facilities will get infected by household members.

Even if SCC had an ICU bed and ventilator for every single resident, we shouldn’t keep everything open until we have used them all.

And no one (least of all I) said you should.

BTW, I 'get' and agree with your comments about high prevalence rates and ramifications of same; thus, fully on board with being smart, wearing masks, etc. What I disfavor is knee-jerk reactions on closures, w/o risk-benefit analysis. Take for example, those poor owners of hair salons. They're open 2 days (by definition, no way are they're contributing to surges), and then closed. Now, maybe they're viral incubators/spreaders up the wazoo. But it strikes me that distancing (and even better, outdoor haircuts) could be at least tried before the prophylactic (and crippling for them) shutdown order is re-imposed.

Have no problem with indoor bars or workout facilities; no problem with mass gatherings indoors (think outdoors can be spaced by capacity - e.g., sporting events); not much of a problem with indoor restaurants (though I think that could possibly be done with reasonable safety protocols). But as Goose (or someone else) said above, how about a little analysis in the decision-making? Is that too much to ask? But maybe OF is right in terms of lack of knowledge about spread leads to "Big Categories" of regulation.