Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Printable Version
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Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - gailtate - 06-15-2020
I had this dude WAAY overrated He's rockin' an OAN t-shirt and fomenting revolution on his TEAM. Unbelievable!
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/A-shirt-worn-by-Oklahoma-State-coach-Mike-Gundy-15341957.php
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - fullmetal - 06-15-2020
Yeah, in light of the events from the last three weeks, clearly a bad move (esp looking at how the Florida State players and the Texas players are being active). Also, no one should be under the impression that OAN is a valid bastion of journalism...it's a notch below Infowars as far as I can tell.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - akiddoc - 06-15-2020
(06-15-2020, 04:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Yeah, in light of the events from the last three weeks, clearly a bad move (esp looking at how the Florida State players and the Texas players are being active). Also, no one should be under the impression that OAN is a valid bastion of journalism...it's a notch below Infowars as far as I can tell.
I came here to post the same article. Football coaches seem to be generally pretty conservative, which is fine. But this is a new low for Gundy, who's been involved with a lot of lows. OAN is basically a conspiracy website, and about as anti BLM as it comes. When you are a white coach and your livelihood depends largely on black football players, you have to have some type of reasoning ability.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Snorlax94 - 06-15-2020
I have always said coaches have such an incredible impact on how student athletes grow and mature during college, what opportunities they are given, and how they are treated, and not nearly enough emphasis is placed on the character of the coaches and the programs. I hope this is changing.
If, deep inside, a coach does not respect you equally as a human being based on the color of your skin, don’t go there.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - fullmetal - 06-15-2020
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SageRosenfels18/status/1272693652008112134?s=20[/tweet]
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Phogge - 06-15-2020
What would T. Boone say?
My college coach picked out one guy each year to ride. He was an absolute p**** to these kids. By mid year one of the guys was super motivated and ultimately got as high as AA ball. The other kid went the other way. It was insulting to all of us but nobody called him out. As a group we were chickenshit.
Gundy deserves to be gone by sundown tomorrow.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - OutsiderFan - 06-16-2020
After living in Memphis for 6 months (that's all I could take), it has always amazed me how so many black athletes wanted to stay in the South and why they wouldn't use their influence to demand better treatment for black people. It's nice to see some signs of change, but I still wonder why more wouldn't want to go to Washington, Oregon, and CA, where the larger areas are very diverse and multicultural. Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC should have been able to pull many more athletes out of the South than they have, IMO.
As for Gundy, it sure was fun watching the internet freakout as the pics of him in the OAN shirt spread yesterday. My stance was the players have a right to be skeptical, but we have no idea what the coaches and players discussed, and how that shirt fit into it all. Chuba Hubbard's reaction suggested deep dissatisfaction, but everyone needed to let it play out before drawing too many conclusions. Now a video was released that featured Gundy and Hubbard saying all is good, although my gawd did it look scripted. I'm not even gonna post it because it looked so bad.
One thing I can declaratively say with 100% confidence (not a Rob Manfred 100%), is systemic and institutionalized racism is so deeply woven into society, that calls to remove it will result in many things being stripped to their core so any hint of racism is rooted out. And if people refuse to act, they will be seen as part of the problem, not willing to go as far as needed to end it. It's very analogous to cancer. When a tumor is removed, the surgeon doesn't leave a little cancer and declare someone cancer free. Only when all cancer is removed, does that happen. One of my dogs had a malignant surface tumor removed. The doctor took out way more tissue than had the cancer, to be overly cautious it wouldn't return and it didn't.
There are many more challenges coming. Voting rights is going to be right on the heels of police and criminal justice reform. Then it is going to turn to income inequality. Athletes aren't going to be backing down on these issues. Any college coaches that in any way align with anyone who wants to deny voting rights, is going to have a very large problem with angry players. I'd go so far as to say if the coaches don't proactively themselves advocate for voting rights, they will have a problem.
On a related note, the Big Ten Conference announced an initiative to end voter suppression. I wonder how this squares with the state of Iowa - home of the Iowa Hawkeyes - state legislature working to implement laws to making voting harder? Should be fun to see!
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - SamuelMcF - 06-16-2020
Speaking of Iowa, they too just “parted ways with” their S&C coach over many accusations of racist treatment of black players over a dozen years. Making big waves across the CFB landscape as he was regarded as one of the best, and lots questioning how Ferentz could possibly have not known about it.
Makes my stomach turn a bit to compare this to the hush-hush nature of Turley’s exit. Even most hardcore CFB fans had no idea that happened.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Phogge - 06-16-2020
OF, many things to like about Memphis. Corky's, Elwood's, Central, the public golf courses, main public library, the river walk, having coffee on a bench watching the barges navigate the Mississippi, the old lunch counter at Schawbs (forget the chochtkees), a ball game at Redbird Stadium, the thunderstorms and the tranquility after, the Catholic Cathedral, the bird watching, the children's museum, Rhodes College grounds and pool, BBQ in a black neighborhood, the fascinating Memphis College of Optometry, the Pink Palace, Sole Fish, the little bookshop on Cooper where Turow hangs out often to name a few.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - OutsiderFan - 06-16-2020
(06-16-2020, 10:17 AM)Phogge Wrote: OF, many things to like about Memphis. Corky's, Elwood's, Central, the public golf courses, main public library, the river walk, having coffee on a bench watching the barges navigate the Mississippi, the old lunch counter at Schawbs (forget the chochtkees), a ball game at Redbird Stadium, the thunderstorms and the tranquility after, the Catholic Cathedral, the bird watching, the children's museum, Rhodes College grounds and pool, BBQ in a black neighborhood, the fascinating Memphis College of Optometry, the Pink Palace, Sole Fish, the little bookshop on Cooper where Turow hangs out often to name a few.
You forgot Graceland, Beale Street, and The Pyramid. Hell, even St. Jude's and The Peabody. There are some great things to see and experience. Living there is different. People say you need to live some place 3 month to really understand and get and vibe for it. That's about how long it took me to realize how much at odds with my values the area was. I've never wanted out of a place more in my life.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Phogge - 06-16-2020
One man's opinion. Have a grandson in a Memphis public school, incredibly diverse. Great teachers. Diverse neighborhood, much public spirit. His folks pulled the boy out of a "top" private grammar school that had its head in the 50's. The working class, with many white families, gets along in the neighborhood. Things in Midtown are much more integrated than 10 years ago. It's something to build on. What is still hurting is the overall economy which has been in the toilet for years. I do wish they would fix the sidewalks which need to be safer for little kids as they learn to ride bikes.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - LuckE2Bhere - 06-16-2020
(06-15-2020, 05:54 PM)akiddoc Wrote:(06-15-2020, 04:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Yeah, in light of the events from the last three weeks, clearly a bad move (esp looking at how the Florida State players and the Texas players are being active). Also, no one should be under the impression that OAN is a valid bastion of journalism...it's a notch below Infowars as far as I can tell.
I came here to post the same article. Football coaches seem to be generally pretty conservative, which is fine. But this is a new low for Gundy, who's been involved with a lot of lows. OAN is basically a conspiracy website, and about as anti BLM as it comes. When you are a white coach and your livelihood depends largely on black football players, you have to have some type of reasoning ability.
Disclaimer: I've never actually watched OAN, but I have come across several (seemingly apolitical, but maybe I'm missing something?) references to the Ad Fontes Media "Media Bias Chart", so I just Googled the most recent version (5.0). I was surprised to see OAN plotted virtually dead-center in their Reliability range (slightly closer to The Weather Channel than The National Enquirer) and slightly less Biased (and slightly more Reliable) than MSNBC! Slate is apparently even less Reliable and also more Biased. As a "reality check", they show Bloomberg, The New York Times and Al Jazeera in the neutral Bias range, so it doesn't look like Newt Gingrich is doing their ratings ;-)
I'm not sure that Trump quoting an article or two makes an entire publication "below Infowars" (which is far further right and unreliable, on this and other scales that I've seen, like AllSides, which seems generally consistent, but doesn't list OAN); but again, I've never watched it.
Just askin'... would anyone be freaking out of another senior representative of a major university was seen in a non-employment-related photo wearing an MSNBC or Slate t-shirt? Think there are any deans out there who might subscribe to Bipartisan Report (which I've also never seen, but can, ironically, be found much further out in the realm of high Bias and low reliability)?
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Farm93 - 06-17-2020
(06-16-2020, 03:41 PM)LuckE2Bhere Wrote:Hard to say why the ratings are not capturing reality. However, Trump does a lot more than quote an article or two. Not only does he tweet his love for OAN often, he also has given OAN special access to White House press briefings. Also at those briefings OAN has been unbelievable helpful at deflecting President Trump away from relevant COVID19 news and towards completely unfounded conspiracy theories.(06-15-2020, 05:54 PM)akiddoc Wrote:(06-15-2020, 04:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Yeah, in light of the events from the last three weeks, clearly a bad move (esp looking at how the Florida State players and the Texas players are being active). Also, no one should be under the impression that OAN is a valid bastion of journalism...it's a notch below Infowars as far as I can tell.
I came here to post the same article. Football coaches seem to be generally pretty conservative, which is fine. But this is a new low for Gundy, who's been involved with a lot of lows. OAN is basically a conspiracy website, and about as anti BLM as it comes. When you are a white coach and your livelihood depends largely on black football players, you have to have some type of reasoning ability.
Disclaimer: I've never actually watched OAN, but I have come across several (seemingly apolitical, but maybe I'm missing something?) references to the Ad Fontes Media "Media Bias Chart", so I just Googled the most recent version (5.0). I was surprised to see OAN plotted virtually dead-center in their Reliability range (slightly closer to The Weather Channel than The National Enquirer) and slightly less Biased (and slightly more Reliable) than MSNBC! Slate is apparently even less Reliable and also more Biased. As a "reality check", they show Bloomberg, The New York Times and Al Jazeera in the neutral Bias range, so it doesn't look like Newt Gingrich is doing their ratings ;-)
I'm not sure that Trump quoting an article or two makes an entire publication "below Infowars" (which is far further right and unreliable, on this and other scales that I've seen, like AllSides, which seems generally consistent, but doesn't list OAN); but again, I've never watched it.
Just askin'... would anyone be freaking out of another senior representative of a major university was seen in a non-employment-related photo wearing an MSNBC or Slate t-shirt? Think there are any deans out there who might subscribe to Bipartisan Report (which I've also never seen, but can, ironically, be found much further out in the realm of high Bias and low reliability)?
In most administrations that would not be so awful, but this President seems very keen to embrace conspiracy theories rather than deal with reality.
If you are from a community where thousands of people have died from coronavirus those conspiracy distractions have deadly consequences.
There is more out there, but if in doubt just realize that even Mike Gundy realized he couldn't actually defend his attire choice and he lives in Oklahoma. Another clue is that when POTUS45 is upset with FoxNews or a FoxNews poll he has noted that OAN has been more loyal.
To the hypothetical...
I don't think any left-leaning position is so directly linked to the deaths of thousands in African American communities, but if there was such an issue then I would suspect equivalent outrage is possible.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - LuckE2Bhere - 06-17-2020
Wow - I've never heard it even alleged that OAN (or any other media group) is "directly linked to the deaths of thousands in African American communities"!?! I presume you're suggesting that they've published articles questioning various public policy responses to Covid-19? If so, that seems like quite a leap to blame them for thousands of incremental deaths, let alone suggest that they are targeting certain members of the community in doing so?
Maybe I'm giving Ad Fontes and AllSides too much credit (but doubt that Google would feature them prominently, if they themselves were crazed/biased media critics)? I never voted for Trump, and I'm not defending him here, but I have to wonder if the "friend of my enemy" theory isn't leading to some hyperbole in this thread?
I'm also not sure that your argument "that even Mike Gundy realized he couldn't actually defend his attire choice and he lives in Oklahoma" holds much water, as I've read that Trump won the vote in that area by a wide margin. I would humbly suggest that Gandy might have been reacting (in desperate job-preservation mode) to a firestorm of national media and celebrity/athlete critics (who broadly find themselves on the left side of those graphs), as opposed to rethinking the fundamental merits of his personal media consumption, in the context of the Oklahoma electorate? Frankly, in his profession, he didn't have a choice.
Imagine being the coach of an NBA, NFL or MLB team right now, and inviting Thomas Sowell to your home to discuss public policy issues with your team over some drinks. You would not be coaching that team a week later, and that has nothing to do with the merits (or lack thereof) of Professor Sowell's arguments. I would posit that most public figures (be they coaches, actors or CEOs) are simply not allowed to consider, let alone express, certain of their own opinions these days... and that's a real shame, no matter how Liberal or Conservative those views may be.
This exchange has actually inspired me to Google OAN's website (assuming they'll feature the link). Even if I laugh (or cry) at every article or video, I feel like I should know what they are saying... particularly since it's allegedly so dangerous. Call me "old school", but one of the things that I learned at Stanford - way back when - was to take in all kinds of information, then form my own opinions.
Be safe!
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - BostonCard - 06-17-2020
A quick reminder about the no politics rule. I think a discussion about OAN strays far from the purpose of this board.
BC
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - LuckE2Bhere - 06-17-2020
Understood and appreciated. I really don't know squat about OAN (yet). I was reluctant to ask my initial question for exactly this reason (but figured it was relevant to discussion of the Gundy issue (maybe this whole thread violates the No Politics rule?). That's why I Googled the media bias chart, and thought I was "safe" in offering that context, assuming it's something more akin to MSNBC or Slate than some crazed extremist group.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - BostonCard - 06-17-2020
(06-17-2020, 08:59 AM)LuckE2Bhere Wrote: Understood and appreciated. I really don't know squat about OAN (yet). I was reluctant to ask my initial question for exactly this reason (but figured it was relevant to discussion of the Gundy issue (maybe this whole thread violates the No Politics rule?). That's why I Googled the media bias chart, and thought I was "safe" in offering that context, assuming it's something more akin to MSNBC or Slate than some crazed extremist group.
Don't worry; I wasn't trying to single you out. I wouldn't have said anything but for the fact that your post sparked a response, and there was a risk that there would be continuing back and forth.
BC
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - TreeWeird - 06-17-2020
After Gundy's non-apology video on Monday with Chuba Hubbard, Gundy on Tuesday did make a video apology that included this:
"Once I learned how that network [i.e., OAN] felt about Black Lives Matter, I was disgusted and knew it was completely unacceptable to me."
https://twitter.com/CoachGundy/status/1273002885283020809?s=20
Maybe Gundy is becoming less clueless.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - 2006alum - 06-17-2020
(06-17-2020, 06:05 PM)TreeWeird Wrote: After Gundy's non-apology video on Monday with Chuba Hubbard, Gundy on Tuesday did make a video apology that included this:
"Once I learned how that network [i.e., OAN] felt about Black Lives Matter, I was disgusted and knew it was completely unacceptable to me."
https://twitter.com/CoachGundy/status/1273002885283020809?s=20
Maybe Gundy is becoming less clueless.
I generally have an aversion to wearing clothing that show a brand label, so I may simply have totally different priors here. But: why in the world would he wear a T-shirt promoting a network he knows so little about? In the world of social media over-saturation and cancel culture, if I were a high-profile coach I would be doubly sure any labels that adorn my clothing are very much "on brand" with what I want to project and promote to the world. Free t-shirts didn't excite me when I was 20 - they sure as heck wouldn't excite me if I was a well known public employee making $$$ and the de facto face of a major state university.
So yeah, maybe he's clueless on multiple levels.
RE: Mike Gundy is effing CLUELESS! - Farm93 - 06-18-2020
(06-17-2020, 06:44 PM)2006alum Wrote:ESPN types called his apology as hostage video. It was apparent he was reading a script. It was also delivered after other, better, opportunities to comment on his fashion choice were bypassed.(06-17-2020, 06:05 PM)TreeWeird Wrote: After Gundy's non-apology video on Monday with Chuba Hubbard, Gundy on Tuesday did make a video apology that included this:
"Once I learned how that network [i.e., OAN] felt about Black Lives Matter, I was disgusted and knew it was completely unacceptable to me."
https://twitter.com/CoachGundy/status/1273002885283020809?s=20
Maybe Gundy is becoming less clueless.
I generally have an aversion to wearing clothing that show a brand label, so I may simply have totally different priors here. But: why in the world would he wear a T-shirt promoting a network he knows so little about? In the world of social media over-saturation and cancel culture, if I were a high-profile coach I would be doubly sure any labels that adorn my clothing are very much "on brand" with what I want to project and promote to the world. Free t-shirts didn't excite me when I was 20 - they sure as heck wouldn't excite me if I was a well known public employee making $$$ and the de facto face of a major state university.
So yeah, maybe he's clueless on multiple levels.
How does one get an OAN t-shirt?
Perhaps someone gave him the shirt hoping he would promote the network, if so as a head coach should know to be very careful with free swag if that was the case.
Coach Gundy is free to wear whatever he wants to wear, but young recruits are free to commit wherever they want to attend.
Coach Gundy should have known wearing an OAN shirt would not help his image or the OK St brand with at least some of the most coveted recruits.
This Gundy event probably will be used by D1 ADs and head coaches as something to avoid as they talk to their staff about using social media.